Oakland University new medical school

[SpartyFan]

http://www.wxyz.com/news/story.aspx?content_id=2e7d6223-98f6-4d5d-b0ff-e652254cc067

Any comments?

Is this good or bad for the future income of Michigan doctors? More competition?

Does this have any potential to be a "tier 1" medical school?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[maestro1625]

doubt it will have too much to do with the income of physicians in the area, but it's going to make things "interesting" for wayne state in the long run.

 

[SpartyFan]

doubt it will have too much to do with the income of physicians in the area, but it's going to make things "interesting" for wayne state in the long run.

I was wondering the same thing about Wayne. I am leaning towrds attending Wayne but am reconsidering after budget cuts and random crap like this. What impact do you think it will have on Wayne?

 

[dilated]

Oakland University? Is that even an actual accredited school? I guess eventually we'll get to see an actual "Hollywood Upstairs Medical College" when studies are shown that it would bring an extra $20 million to the LA area.

 

[Critical Mass]

Does this have any potential to be a "tier 1" medical school?

That would take a long time since it would be a while before it would develop any sort of reputation (good or bad).

Money? The likelihood is that creating more American grads wouldn't have much effect on the market until they push the foreign grads out of residency slots. As a private school, they will probably draw consideration from people who don't necessarily have a strong commitment to practicing in Michigan.

 

[Arsenic]

moving from allo to pre-allo

 

[TMP-SMX]

Oakland University? Is that even an actual accredited school? I guess eventually we'll get to see an actual "Hollywood Upstairs Medical College" when studies are shown that it would bring an extra $20 million to the LA area.

It's my current undergrad school and it is definitely an accredited public university with the cheapest tuition in the state. Oakland county is just north of Wayne County where Detroit and WSU are located. Until 1970 OU was actually a branch of MSU. It was a school started by the widow of the founder of Dodge. Roughly 20,000 students total. Great opportunities for undergrad research. End advertisement.

 

[maestro1625]

It's my current undergrad school and it is definitely an accredited public university with the cheapest tuition in the state. Oakland county is just north of Wayne County where Detroit and WSU are located. Until 1970 OU was actually a branch of MSU. It was a school started by the widow of the founder of Dodge. Roughly 20,000 students total. Great opportunities for undergrad research. End advertisement.

made the NCAA tourney as a 16 seed in 05 too.

 

[TMP-SMX]

made the NCAA tourney as a 16 seed in 05 too.

Then got thumped, but hey who's paying attention anyway.

 

[SpartyFan]

Why was this thread moved to the pre-allo forum. I don't care what pre-meds have to say on this issue otherwise I would have posted it in the pre-allo forum or askied my pre-allo friends.

 

[Cirrus83]

Oh well, at least there's going to be a new allo school, seems like new DO schools open up more often than allo.

 

[TMP-SMX]

Oh well, at least there's going to be a new allo school, seems like new DO schools open up more often than allo.

I thought that it was going to be a branch of MSU's DO program, but apparently not. It's going to be an independent MD entity. In addition, there will be a lot of funding for OU since it has a lot of room to grow and plenty of rich people in the county that want their names on things.

 

[oldjeeps]

http://www.wxyz.com/news/story.aspx?content_id=2e7d6223-98f6-4d5d-b0ff-e652254cc067

Any comments?

Is this good or bad for the future income of Michigan doctors? More competition?

Does this have any potential to be a "tier 1" medical school?

The media is saying that it won't be starting until 2010, which means first grads won't hit the market until 2014. It's anyones guess as for how long it will take for them to establish a reputation amongst residency directors.
Also a possibility that for the first few years (until they establish a reputation) some of their students will be slipped into spots at WBH, in order to inflate their match statistics.

Certainly might make life "interesting" for WSU next time they have to negotitate with DMC (one less hospital system to threaten to run away to). Also, a few less spots for WSU students to rotate through during third and fourth year (which will really suck for the students living in RO that were planning on just walking around the corner in the morning to get to the hospital).

But simple fact is that one more MD school won't really make that much of a difference on how hard it is to get into med school. And odds are pretty good that they'll be able to find students that are willing to fill any seats that OA/WBH might be able to produce.

 

[maestro1625]

so they note that the place will be privately funded (really a good call, since the state's not giving any money), but how does that affect in-state tuition and preference for residents, since Oakland is a public school itself?

If we were to assume that this school were to give any sort of in-state preference, Michigan would really be one of the more "favorable" states for med school admission (or the "anti-California" if you will)

 

[TMP-SMX]

so they note that the place will be privately funded (really a good call, since the state's not giving any money), but how does that affect in-state tuition and preference for residents, since Oakland is a public school itself?

If we were to assume that this school were to give any sort of in-state preference, Michigan would really be one of the more "favorable" states for med school admission (or the "anti-California" if you will)

Should be a very interesting time when they are starting.

 

[jjmack]

I see med school becoming like law school with the recent spawning of new schools.

 

[SpartyFan]

so they note that the place will be privately funded (really a good call, since the state's not giving any money), but how does that affect in-state tuition and preference for residents, since Oakland is a public school itself?

If we were to assume that this school were to give any sort of in-state preference, Michigan would really be one of the more "favorable" states for med school admission (or the "anti-California" if you will)

The Michigan State Law School is private yet Michigan State University is public. I have no idea how this works and I have been asking my law school friends to explain this to me with no luck. It makes no sense!!

I don't think Oakland Medical School, being a private medical school will play favorites for local kids (excluding the connections one might have knowing someone due to location). Why would the investors care which state one grew up in unless it makes them more money? Once a school goes private, it's all about making the shareholders or whom ever dished out the capital for this happy$$$.

 

[maestro1625]

I see med school becoming like law school with the recent spawning of new schools.

I think that's a bit much... since 1985, only four schools have received full accreditation (according to the Free Press). It takes a lot more infrastructure to make a med school than a law school. Take a look at a place like Ave Maria in Ann Arbor. The place is pretty much unrecognizable as a law school unless you're looking for it. it's more or less in a strip mall.

 

[longlakeboy]

The hospital system it will be affiliated with, Beaumont, is one of the best in the country. Ranked nationally in a number of specialties and extremely high volume (in 2004, for instance, Royal Oak Beaumont was second in the COUNTRY in inpatient hospital admissions and second in total surgeries for a single hospital facility). It's going to be great place to do third and fourth year clerkships once they start rolling in 5 years from now...

 

[SpartyFan]

I think that's a bit much... since 1985, only four schools have received full accreditation (according to the Free Press). It takes a lot more infrastructure to make a med school than a law school. Take a look at a place like Ave Maria in Ann Arbor. The place is pretty much unrecognizable as a law school unless you're looking for it. it's more or less in a strip mall.

I think Ave Maria is moving to Florida soon.

 

[SpartyFan]

Why wouldn't Wayne affiliate with Beamount? Does anyone know how much it would cost Wayne to affiliate with a hospital like Beamount?

 

[maestro1625]

I think Ave Maria is moving to Florida soon.

that's a whole different school I think. Monaghan has started a whole undergrad university/town/compound down there.

 

[maestro1625]

Why wouldn't Wayne affiliate with Beamount? Does anyone know how much it would cost Wayne to affiliate with a hospital like Beamount?

well Wayne students already rotate thru. and DMC actually pays for wayne's services... hence part of the dispute.

 

[thewarehouse]

The OU med school seems like it's going to be small- an article in either the Detroit News or Free Press made it sound like they would really only end up with an enrollment of 200, with only 50 people in it's first few classes. Unfortunately for everyone in our shoes, I doubt they'll make much of a dent in the applicant pool at that size.

As a metro-Detroiter, I can say Beaumont is an amazing hospital (I was born there!) with beautiful facilities and a lot of money. From my completely unscientific perspective, though, and from experience talking to physicians around here it seems like more of the complex, tertiary care-type cases go through the DMC and UMich while more of the "standard" procedures go through Beaumont - and with these procedures Beaumont has a reputation of being a great hospital with talented physicians. Based on this, I see the Oakland school as potentially filling a different niche than WSU when it finally ends up opening. Should be interesting to see how everything gets played out.

And regardless of what happens with it, here's to having more choices when looking for academic residencies in a few years!

 

[afriend]

And regardless of what happens with it, here's to having more choices when looking for academic residencies in a few years!

Actually no change in residencies. The "cap" to pay for residency spots is determined by the feds (CMS), with a set number of slots being given to each health system/hospital. Until this is resolved (don't hold your breath), expansion of MSU-COM and addition of OU/WBH medical students doesn't affect resident numbers or opportunities.

While these institutions have both stated goals of addressing the Michigan physician workforce shortage, they really could only hope to address a medical student shortage. I don't think a med student shortage been a big problem for SE Michigan.

 

[thewarehouse]

Actually no change in residencies. The "cap" to pay for residency spots is determined by the feds (CMS), with a set number of slots being given to each health system/hospital. Until this is resolved (don't hold your breath), expansion of MSU-COM and addition of OU/WBH medical students doesn't affect resident numbers or opportunities.

While these institutions have both stated goals of addressing the Michigan physician workforce shortage, they really could only hope to address a medical student shortage. I don't think a med student shortage been a big problem for SE Michigan.

Great point- I wonder if they know this considering so much of their press release and news stories explain the necessity of the new school in terms of the physician shortage. Oh well

 

[UMP]

that's a whole different school I think. Monaghan has started a whole undergrad university/town/compound down there.

I'm almost a 100% sure that the law school is moving down there, too. But I'm on that side of town a lot and other than the sign that's posted, the place looks more like an office building, a really crappy one at that.

 

[UMP]

The OU med school seems like it's going to be small- an article in either the Detroit News or Free Press made it sound like they would really only end up with an enrollment of 200, with only 50 people in it's first few classes. Unfortunately for everyone in our shoes, I doubt they'll make much of a dent in the applicant pool at that size.

As a metro-Detroiter, I can say Beaumont is an amazing hospital (I was born there!) with beautiful facilities and a lot of money. From my completely unscientific perspective, though, and from experience talking to physicians around here it seems like more of the complex, tertiary care-type cases go through the DMC and UMich while more of the "standard" procedures go through Beaumont - and with these procedures Beaumont has a reputation of being a great hospital with talented physicians. Based on this, I see the Oakland school as potentially filling a different niche than WSU when it finally ends up opening. Should be interesting to see how everything gets played out.

And regardless of what happens with it, here's to having more choices when looking for academic residencies in a few years!

This most likely will not be a research powerhouse by any means... Since MSU-CHM has a rural primary care focus, will this school have a rich people suburb primary care focus, then ?

 

[oldjeeps]

The OU med school seems like it's going to be small- an article in either the Detroit News or Free Press made it sound like they would really only end up with an enrollment of 200, with only 50 people in it's first few classes. Unfortunately for everyone in our shoes, I doubt they'll make much of a dent in the applicant pool at that size.

I understood the articles to be saying that the class size was starting at 50 and gradually increasing to 200 - not that total enrollment was going to be 200 when they were up to capacity.

Besides the applicant pool is large enough that it will never be "dented"

 

[thewarehouse]

The school is to begin with at least 50 students and grow to 200 by 2014.

It depends on how you read it. A class of 200 gets to be pretty tough to accommodate unless you've been an established med school for a while- that's why only 15-20 med schools across the country have class sizes that large and they're all really old, and usually public. The fact that they're going to do this without any state funding seems to suggest that it's going to be a pretty small endeavor at first. Who knows, though.

And as far as the "have a rich people suburb primary care focus" comment goes, rich people have needs too and they need doctors that understand the unique challenges they face.

In all honesty though, it'll be interesting to see how the school defines its goals and missions. In the article it talks about alleviating Michigan's physician shortage, but the fact that they're going to be a private medical school seems to suggest the tuition is going to be very high for both in state and out of state students. With that being the reality, I'm not sure how many in-state students they'd be able to draw. Without many in-state students, it's doubtful that many graduates of the school would stay in Michigan or go to practice in rural areas in the state. Like I said, it'll be interesting to see how the school ends up defining their goals and actually addressing the physician shortage mentioned in their press releases. Here's to hoping they figure out a way to do it despite the obvious challenges.

 

[maestro1625]

yeah, I'm not sure about the whole rich people comment... after all, it's not like there will be any rich people left in the state by 2010.

 

[TMP-SMX]

Interesting indeed. I think OU just knows that the state won't give enough funding to build and do what they want to do so they'll go after the big donors to fund it. OU has the cheapest tuition in the state as a public school now. Who knows what they will do for the med school.

 

[Agent47]

OU has the cheapest tuition in the state as a public school now. Who knows what they will do for the med school.

HOPEFULLY ...IT WILL BE GOOD AND CHEAP!!

 

[Neelesh]

So, OU will be private; does that it will accept a significant amount of OOS residents?

 

[TMP-SMX]

So, OU will be private; does that it will accept a significant amount of OOS residents?

It probably depends how many OOS students want to come to Rochester and whether or not they will give any advantage to in state students. I would assume it would be far better to OOSers than WSU or MSU. U of M is about 50/50 so maybe even better than that.