mikeshana

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Hi

How competetive is it to match into a prograsm in california?

also any recomendatons as well as feedback about which schools you thought were better

Thanks
 

Kiki2004

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Hi,

Although I matched into Peds this year, I did apply for OB/GYN in the beginning as well so I can give you some insight into some programs in Cali.

I did a sub-I at UC Irvine. Word on the street was this was one of the top programs. After doing my research and spending a month there, it did not seem this way to me. It turns out that there Gyn Onc and MFM are up on top (when it comes to departments/fellowships) but not the general OB/GYN program itself. All in all, I had a good month there, but what turned me off is that the program did not seem that strong to me. I also heard from others on the interview trail that there were some weaknesses to the program. The residents seemed nice and got along, but it looked to me like it was superficial. A lot of the older PGY 4's and PGY 5's seemed to have problems with eachother (i.e., backstabbing, jealousy). However, the intern class this year seemed awesome. So maybe it's cyclical. This was my top choice but after a month, UCI fell off my list. I just didn't see myself there and it wasn't the type of program I was looking for.

As for other programs in Cali, I have heard great things about UCSF and UCSF-Fresno, White Memorial if you prefer a small community program, and UCLA-Harbor.

I heard to stay away from malignant programs like UCLA, UCSD, and Santa Clara Valley. And I heard to just plain STAY AWAY from Drew, Kern County in Bakersfield. I don't know much about the Kaiser programs and I don't know anything about Loma Linda or Stanford. Although one applicant told me she did a sub-I at Stanford and found them to be somewhat malignant. However, she was a DO student (and so am I) so her experience and my view may be a bit skewed. I pretty much got the impression that as a DO, it is VERY difficult...

For allopathic students, as far as competitiveness, it is extremely difficult to get into a program in Cali unless you are top notch. It seemed to be that all the programs I looked at were more less malignant...Now this is just my opinion, I don't want to offend anyone. Hence the reason why I am going to be a pediatrician. ;)

My best advice to you is to do a couple of away rotations at places you're interested in!
 
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In2b8

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My response is specifically regarding SoCal. In SoCal anything and everything is competitive...mostly because of location and some top notch academic centers. On the flip side you have high cost of living and a state with one of the lowest paying residencies. As you may well know this year only 65% of ObGyn Spots were filled by US applicants nationwide...I am sure the numbers for SoCal are higher. I, myself, am a FMG and I matched in SoCal into a fairly competitive residency. I had ~240s on both Step1 and 2 and great letters of rec from my US rotations. I also matched into a program that I had not done a rotation... i.e. away rotation not necessary although helpfull for getting interviews/bumped up on the rank list. I think with solid board scores and letters you will find yourself interviewing at most of the programs.
 

brows_kat

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Yes, California programs are known for being more competitive, mainly because California is a huge black hole. Those who left for medical school want to come back; many who came here for med school don't want to leave; and those who have never been here want to see what the fuss is all about. However, I only applied to California programs, so can't state to the competitiveness of other states' programs.

As for the programs themselves, let me try to break them down into categories.

COMMUNITY PROGRAMS:
Kaiser LA
Kaiser SF
Kaiser Oakland
Kaiser Santa Clara
Kern
Drew

ACADEMIC-COMMUNITY PROGRAMS:
Cedars-Sinai
Santa Clara Valley
Harbor-UCLA
White Memorial
UCSF-Fresno

ACADEMIC PROGRAMS:
UC Los Angeles
UC San Francisco
UC San Diego
USC
UC Irvine
UC Davis
Stanford
Loma Linda

Instead of posting comments about all of them (and risk starting a huge debate), which ones do you have specific quesitons about?
 

purple

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Hey Brows_kat--
I would like to hear your take on Kaiser LA, Kaiser SF,Kaiser Oakland, Cedars,
Harbor-UCLA, White Memorial, Stanford, UC Los Angeles, UC San Francisco,
UC San Diego, USC, UC Irvine,UC Davis, and Stanford. Sorry for such a huge list. I understand if you don't have time to cover them all. Thanks!
 

brows_kat

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Hey Purple,

Wow, that IS a huge list. =) I'll do my best:

Kaiser LA - good community program; residents had only great things to say about the PD, who, however, is known for being a tough interviewer; has plenty of cases and also a large Kaiser database to draw from for retrospective studies. Nice facilities.

Kaiser SF - also a good program, albeit small, with only 4 residents a year (if I remember correctly). seems to be "in the shadows" of ucsf, so less well known in the community. call schedule is benign, though i can't remember details. keep in mind the expenses of living in sf.

Kaiser Oakland - had a rather poor impression of this program. PD seemed a bit "off" and was a difficult interviewer (same impression was shared by my co-interviewees that day and also many others on the interview trail). Residents were friendly, but seemed busy and were worried about the move from Alta Bates back to the newly remodelled KP Oakland facility. The move, however, will improve teaching sessions, which were previously held via video-conferencing. Oakland is also not the best of locations in which to live.

Cedars - Did rotation here. Excellent program with five residents per year, friendly and well-trained. Extensive surgical training, beginning very early in first year. Plenty of deliveries. Strong gyn surg training. Excellent gyn-onc attendings; onc fellowship combined with ucla. Wide networking potential. Supportive and attentive PD. Night float system helps alleviate work load, which can be heavy at times. Residents manage both housestaff and private patients, but private attendings deliver private pts. M&Ms are more east coast-style. Facilities are beautiful and food is good!

Harbor - County program. Strong faculty, but seems to be a bit lacking in resident camaraderie in the more senior classes. The younger classes seem to be much more friendly. Low on deliveries, but high on high-risk. Uses an alternating gyn-clinic-ob system which the residents seem to really like. Spends a few months at KP Bellflower. Hospital is typical LA County hospital, but very hands on, including scut.

White - Very small program, meaning many calls. Residents didn't even have time to eat with interviewees. Rotates through Cedars for gyn-onc. Some strong faculty and an excellent detail-oriented PD. Seventh-day adventist institution, meaning no coffee or meat, though religious affiliation required.

Stanford - Did rotation here. Also small program with 4 residents a year. Very academic and private institution, though beautiful hospital. MFM attendings were friendly, but some of the onc attendings seemed too busy to teach. Residents were very friendly, and like the night float system. Has an elective rotation to Eretria. Has some administrative hassles with all deliveries held in "Packard Children's" and gyn in "Stanford". (Hard to explain...)

UCLA - Large program with 8 residents +/- 2 transitionals. Very very academic. Deliveries low in number. Hands-off surgeries. Research very strongly encouraged, also in applicants. Combined with Olive View county, where residents don't seem as happy as compared to home institution. New PD kind of fell into the position, but nonetheless seems enthusiastic with good development ideas. Some reports of lack in camaraderie, but I didn't see any.

UCSF - Also large program with 8 residents. Also very very academic and evidence-based, as expected. Strong abortion training and allr esidents essentially expected (though technically not required) to participate in training. All attendings I met seemed very strong. Numbers are low. Some resident malignancy reported by medical students, but none were seen amongst residents I met. Didn't meet many residents during interview though. Know a few of the incoming interns, all of whom are wonderful individuals. Has a two month rotation in Hawaii.

UCSD - Didn't interview here, but great reputation.

USC - Large program with 12 residents, I think. County setting in typical county hospital. Heavy academic bend, with excellent fellowship potential after residency. Very hands-on, so residents run the show. OB is low in numbers but gyn is very strong. M&Ms are east-coast style. Also know some of incoming interns, all of whom are excellent academician/clinicians but also very friendly. Has rotation in Hawaii also.

UCI - Intern class from last year seemed to get along very well. Friendly and strong faculty, but expressed disappointment in the fact that they've been unable to recruit students from bigger-name schools. Strong gyn-onc. REI program had a bad reputation for past decade due to a scanal, but slowly recovering. Facilities are a bit depressing and dark.

UCD - Didn't interview here. From what I heard on the trail, their residents are REALLY REALLY busy.

Hope this helps.

-B.

purple said:
Hey Brows_kat--
I would like to hear your take on Kaiser LA, Kaiser SF,Kaiser Oakland, Cedars,
Harbor-UCLA, White Memorial, Stanford, UC Los Angeles, UC San Francisco,
UC San Diego, USC, UC Irvine,UC Davis, and Stanford. Sorry for such a huge list. I understand if you don't have time to cover them all. Thanks!
 

purple

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Brows_Kat you are so awesome!
I truly appreciate your taking the time and energy to put that together. Much, Much appreciated!
yours truly,
purple
 

brows_kat

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Hey purple -
no prob at all. it's gonna be an awesome year (i'm assuming you're 4th year), so enjoy this incredible time!

btw, i meant to write that white memorial does NOT require religious affiliation. oops...
 

ucsfer

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wow!! this really is a great list. thanks so much brows_kat!
If you don't mind, I'd really appreciate info on santaclara valley and kaiser santa clara. Also, what was your bottom line on stanford after your rotation there? How did it compare to UCSF?
Thanks again!
 

brows_kat

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ucsfer said:
wow!! this really is a great list. thanks so much brows_kat!
If you don't mind, I'd really appreciate info on santaclara valley and kaiser santa clara. Also, what was your bottom line on stanford after your rotation there? How did it compare to UCSF?
Thanks again!

Hey ucsfer,

Sorry for the long delay in replying...

So, I personally thought SCVMC was a great program, with a strong faculty and big volume, in a beautiful facility. However, with only three residents a year, you run a big risk of getting into problems if one resident gets sick or pregnant. I also hear that they're worked really really hard because the volume is so big.

As for Kaiser SC, I have a friend there right now, who seems to love it. She says the residents and faculty are all super-nice. That was the same impression I got when I was there for my interview.

Hope this helps! Best of luck on your interviews.

- bk :)
 

brows_kat

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ucsfer said:
wow!! this really is a great list. thanks so much brows_kat!
If you don't mind, I'd really appreciate info on santaclara valley and kaiser santa clara. Also, what was your bottom line on stanford after your rotation there? How did it compare to UCSF?
Thanks again!
thought i'd bump this list up for those people who are thinking about california... best of luck! :)
 

lgow

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What is the word around the campfire for USC right now? I know they had some problems with accreditation but apparently have fixed them and should be fine for the next year. Are they still as strong of a program though? Any thoughts??
 

tonguetalker

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Necrotic thread bump I know lol but a friend of mine is needs to match to the Bay Area for personal reasons.

She has gotten interviews at all of the programs thus far however she has heard that UCSF is a very malignant program and the residents are over worked. Is there still any truth to this? Other options would be Stanford which is decent and of course all three of the Kaisers. If UCSF is truly malignant, would it be detrimental to her career to attend a Kaiser program if she is considering doing an REI fellowship?
 

22031 Alum

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Necrotic thread bump I know lol but a friend of mine is needs to match to the Bay Area for personal reasons.

She has gotten interviews at all of the programs thus far however she has heard that UCSF is a very malignant program and the residents are over worked. Is there still any truth to this? Other options would be Stanford which is decent and of course all three of the Kaisers. If UCSF is truly malignant, would it be detrimental to her career to attend a Kaiser program if she is considering doing an REI fellowship?
Depending on who you ask, every ob/gyn program is malignant with overworked residents. :p

Now that I'm out of training and my definition of 'malignant' has changed, I can honestly say that I've never heard rumors of such from UCSF. They are not struggling to meet ACGME standards. They do not use their residents as workhorses/drones with little concern for education. Actually very few programs are like that.

In my opinion, REI, along with Gyn Oncology, is the most competitive fellowship in our specialty, and the one where pedigree and connections matter the most. The Kaisers are admittedly very "academic" community programs. But as a non-Californian I can tell you I have exactly zero doubts about the doors that training at UCSF would open, and I can't say the same about Kaiser.

What are these personal reasons that necessitate your staying in the Bay Area? I ask because there are only 5 REI fellowships in California, and geographic limitations + highly competitive fellowship + highly desirable area, has the potential to not work out well.
 

SunKissedG8tr

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Anyone have a review of UCSF-Fresno's OB/GYN program? I've never been to Fresno and haven't spoken to anyone who has so just wondering if anyone had any experiences interviewing or training there. Thanks :)
 
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