Obama=socialism

[dhb]

a hint:

"The political platform of the Libertarian Party reflects that group's particular brand of libertarianism, favoring minimally regulated, laissez-faire markets, strong civil liberties, minimally regulated migration across borders, and non-interventionism in foreign policy that respects freedom of trade and travel to all foreign countries."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(United_States)

It's official:

You're stupid

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[maceo]

Same to you. You are a doctor for christ's sake, try to spend more time working and less time complaining about your income in online forums.

Then you'll make the millions of dollars that you dreamed of as a premed.

you are just pissed because you are not even in medical school yet and by the time you become a doctor all of us will be eating out of garbage cans. The difference though is Ill be closer to retirement than you will, you D I C K.

 

[igottaquestion]

It's official:

You're stupid

i hope tomorrow is a better day for you.

 

[2win]

Maybe some of us are looking at this stuff from the wrong perspective. The upside to all of this is that, if these new age physicians go through the process and get all trained up over the next 8 years, we will be able to hire them to our groups. It sounds as though they would be perfect partners for our groups. We can pay them teacher's salaries, let them cover all of the weekends and holidays, and let them cover any late shifts so that we can spend more time with family. We know they won't complain because they are here to serve their fellow humans and make sure that everyone's rights are taken care of. The future is looking bright.

I am not sure that these "students" or "aspirants" will get in the field of anesthesia - they look more like CRNA-s , paid bashers, socialists ******ed people. And it will be outrageos to receive an admin. warning because I used "socialists ******ed" because we are not in Cuba. I still believe that US is a capitalist country that fought against the socialist - comunist system. And BTW if any of these commies will get a degree - they will get a place maybe at a VA. See ya!

 

[surgicalskills]

I remember when I was a premed and had all these altruistic ideas. It even extended into my first two years of med school. Until that is I started clinical years, and then, residency hit, and man...what a wake up call. These guys will see the truth some day.

 

[pd4emergence]

Why move to france? France is coming here. Yay for socialism!

You greedy doctors should have gone into dentistry. I don't like the idea of you treating my patients while only worrying about $$$. It's inhuman.

I hate to say it but you are entering a profession in which most of the practioners are unhappy with continuing declines in reimbursement, job satisfaction, control over patient care....I could go on but you get the picture. You need to open your eyes. Hopefully you will hide your true feelings of general disdain for the prevailing attitude of your professors, fellow med students, fellow residents, attendings, and future partners or colleagues. Most physicians are unhappy with the lack of control over their professional lives. It shows on boards like this. Sorry if you think we as a group are "greedy doctors". But is a slap in the face for people like you and others to decide that we make too much money and that we should make less. I work hard for the money I make. I hope you look back on your posts in a few years if you are able to tolerate your colleagues long enough to make it into a residency. Maybe your attitude will change.

 

[econdr]

So, you wish to control how I spend my time off as well....

And I hope that you realized that my comments are tongue in cheek and sarcastic. I wonder also if you realized the irony of the comment about exploiting.

It appears that I touched a nerve with the teacher's salary and work schedule comments. It appears you want it both ways. You also appear to be interested in a good salary and reasonable work hours. So really, are you any different from the side you are arguing against?

I am not from the generation of physicians who made ridiculous salaries. I make a modest amount and work very hard to earn it. I give back to the specialty by participating in the training of future physicians. I wish to make a comfortable living that allows me a few luxuries that I gave up while I was working 100-110 hours a week during my late twenties and early thirties(as my kids were growing up), the ability to pay back my student loans, the ability to afford to give to the charities that I feel strongly about, the ability to give my kids a good chilhood and the prospect of them achieving a good education. I am not sure why people such as yourself wish to demonize those of us who have worked hard and wish to be rewarded appropriately for our efforts.
If you are applying to medical school, I would encourage you to take up these topics during your interviews. Make sure that you retain the internet tough guy persona. It is really working well for you. Best of luck to you in your future endeavors.

My apologies. A bit self-aggrandizing, but you make a good case. I don't know how much you are making but you should be making double or triple that. You deserve it.

 

[2win]

My apologies. So here is what I gather from your self-aggrandizing reply.

1. You make a modest amount of money.
2. You work hard.
3. You give back to the medical community.
4. You worked 110 hour weeks in residency, and thus deserve more money.
5. You are struggling to pay back your student loans.
6. You give to charity.
7. You are a family man.
8. Whatever you are making now isn't enough, you are entitled to more.

You make a good case. I don't know how much you are making but you should be making double or triple that. You deserve it.

Your humour doesn't make to much sense...and you'll realize sooner than you think that. I know that "democrats" are poor people (Pelosi) that are paying the taxes (Timmy the small and a lot of them), some of them born outside of US and beeing president (maybe I have a chance - that's great), who are giving from my money 200 mill to attenuate the manure smell (!!!!) or to remove tatoos in California...Also they are very busy trying to force us to participate in abortions (instead to let us to decide what we want to do,,), cutting the Medicare payments (as they were huge before), promoting midlevel care ( but they will ask for a real DOC when they have a relative on the table), stimulating the lazy irresponsible citizens to don't pay their mortgage. See you at Walmart - the luxury store of the "new era"!

 

[econdr]

Your humour doesn't make to much sense...and you'll realize sooner than you think that. I know that "democrats" are poor people (Pelosi) that are paying the taxes (Timmy the small and a lot of them), some of them born outside of US and beeing president (maybe I have a chance - that's great), who are giving from my money 200 mill to attenuate the manure smell (!!!!) or to remove tatoos in California...Also they are very busy trying to force us to participate in abortions (instead to let us to decide what we want to do,,), cutting the Medicare payments (as they were huge before), promoting midlevel care ( but they will ask for a real DOC when they have a relative on the table), stimulating the lazy irresponsible citizens to don't pay their mortgage. See you at Walmart - the luxury store of the "new era"!

Well last night I did some research on how much docs make under NHS in Britain. Its quite low
So I see where you guys are coming from. But then again, doctors are the second highest paid professionals in Britain, after CEOs. And incomes in Britain (and the rest of the world) in general tend to be lower than in the US.

Income in the US will come down across the board, simply because all of our income growth is debt driven, based on borrowed money, and that is unsustainable, especially today as our national debt exceeds our GDP (for the first time since 1929).

As long as doctors still have the #1 or #2 spot on the list of who makes the most, why worry. Isn't wealth relative anyway?

 

[soupcan]

As long as doctors still have the #1 or #2 spot on the list of who makes the most, why worry. Isn't wealth relative anyway?

Debt is also relative. Have fun paying back that $200K in loans with your relative wealth.

 

[econdr]

Debt is also relative. Have fun paying back that $200K in loans with your relative wealth.

thats like 1500/month...

for laisser faire capitalists, you sound like a bunch of crybabies

 

[soupcan]

thats like 1500/month...

for laisser faire capitalists, you sound like a bunch of crybabies

$1500 per month on a 20 year term. About $2400 on a 10 year term.

As far as the crybabies comment, may I politely suggest that you take coldweatherblue's advice and try and show a little respect. I am not sure when you decided that name calling and a tough guy front were the right approach to winning debates, but you may want to rethink that strategy. Comments like these not only make you sound ignorant, argumentative and disrespectful of others opinion, they decrease the likelihood of anyone taking your stance seriously.

Same to you. You are a doctor for christ's sake, try to spend more time working and less time complaining about your income in online forums.

Then you'll make the millions of dollars that you dreamed of as a premed.

always looking to exploit, eh?

Why move to france? France is coming here. Yay for socialism!

You greedy doctors should have gone into dentistry. I don't like the idea of you treating my patients while only worrying about $$$. It's inhuman.

 

[econdr]

$1500 per month on a 20 year term. About $2400 on a 10 year term.

As far as the crybabies comment, may I politely suggest that you take coldweatherblue's advice and try and show a little respect. I am not sure when you decided that name calling and a tough guy front were the right approach to winning debates, but you may want to rethink that strategy. Comments like these not only make you sound ignorant, argumentative and disrespectful of others opinion, they decrease the likelihood of anyone taking your stance seriously.

1500/month is the number i came up with amortizing monthly over 30 years at a rate of 8%.

 

[Surfer]

1500/month is the number i came up with amortizing monthly over 30 years at a rate of 8%.

So $18,000 per year, every year, for 30 years. That's $540,000 spent to repay education debt. That's a lot of cash.

You just won't every get it, until you become a dr yourself.

 

[econdr]

So $18,000 per year, every year, for 30 years. That's $540,000 spent to repay education debt. That's a lot of cash.

You just won't every get it, until you become a dr yourself.

That's funny, because I have a mortgage, and I'm paying about 18k per year on it. My condo however is rented out, so I net positive each month cash flow wise. Similarly, that $1500 / month you pay in loans enables you to earn 10k or 20k per month in salary. That's cashflow positive.

You don't have to be a doctor to "get it". Cash flow is what's important...

If you don't want to pay 540k, make additional payments on your loan. You should be able to with doctor's income, and you could save hundreds of thousands in doing so...

 

[frank51]

As long as doctors still have the #1 or #2 spot on the list of who makes the most, why worry. Isn't wealth relative anyway?

You're also forgetting about inflation, 200k a year now, isn't the same as 200k 10 years from now, all respected economist have predicted that we will face hyperinflation in the coming years because of everything that's going on right now. With the future cuts in reimbursements a doc making 200K now maybe making 150K 10 years from now, factor in inflation and that 150K a year really looks more like 70-80K a year, are you starting to see the big picture here?

 

[Gern Blansten]

My apologies. A bit self-aggrandizing, but you make a good case. I don't know how much you are making but you should be making double or triple that. You deserve it.

What happened to your humble response and apology that you issued last night where you promised to work hard not to "act like a troll?" I thought for a bit that you were going to act civil, but it appears you are back to your old tricks. "Self-aggrandizing??" This from someone who makes themselves out to be the next Mother Theresa providing people with all of their birth rights while you deem it a requirement that all physicians take on a huge debt burden and make pennies on the dollar of what they do now.

You have stated that you are willing to basically take on a debt burden that will take you 30 years to pay off because you are the type of person who cares about others. You demonize those who disagree with that. That is basically a second house mortgage. Self-aggrandizing? If you get into medical school, I would love for you to re-read your statements 10 years from now.

I wish you had just had the ability to leave your first humble response as it was and just drop it. The fact that you were unable to show any respect or humility towards those who have gone before you does not bode well for you being able to be successful in the interpersonal skill portion of your medical training. If you aren't careful, it could rear its ugly head during the interview process and solve your problems completely.

 

[Gern Blansten]

You're also forgetting about inflation, 200k a year now, isn't the same as 200k 10 years from now, all respected economist have predicted that we will face hyperinflation in the coming years because of everything that's going on right now. With the future cuts in reimbursements a doc making 200K now maybe making 150K 10 years from now, factor in inflation and that 150K a year really looks more like 70-80K a year, are you starting to see the big picture here?

No, no he is not.

 

[lfesiam]

Sigh...all I that I need:

1) a roof over my head
2) food on the table
3) bicycle to work
4) a job that I love
5) send my kids to college
6) my good health
7) friends and family

Money. Does it matter? Absolutely.

Will it make me happy? No.

 

[econdr]

What happened to your humble response and apology that you issued last night where you promised to work hard not to "act like a troll?" I thought for a bit that you were going to act civil, but it appears you are back to your old tricks. "Self-aggrandizing??" This from someone who makes themselves out to be the next Mother Theresa providing people with all of their birth rights while you deem it a requirement that all physicians take on a huge debt burden and make pennies on the dollar of what they do now.

You have stated that you are willing to basically take on a debt burden that will take you 30 years to pay off because you are the type of person who cares about others. You demonize those who disagree with that. That is basically a second house mortgage. Self-aggrandizing? If you get into medical school, I would love for you to re-read your statements 10 years from now.

I wish you had just had the ability to leave your first humble response as it was and just drop it. The fact that you were unable to show any respect or humility towards those who have gone before you does not bode well for you being able to be successful in the interpersonal skill portion of your medical training. If you aren't careful, it could rear its ugly head during the interview process and solve your problems completely.

ok read what you just wrote and tell me that wasnt nasty... can we please move on already?

 

[econdr]

You're also forgetting about inflation, 200k a year now, isn't the same as 200k 10 years from now, all respected economist have predicted that we will face hyperinflation in the coming years because of everything that's going on right now. With the future cuts in reimbursements a doc making 200K now maybe making 150K 10 years from now, factor in inflation and that 150K a year really looks more like 70-80K a year, are you starting to see the big picture here?

In general when you have a fixed rate loan, inflation is your friend because prices and wages go up, while your monthly payments stay put...

And right now the biggest worry is deflation. Inflation isn't nearly as nasty.

 

[copacetic]

One thing to consider is the actual benefit we all receive from the taxes we end up paying. First off, not all gov't expenditures are a waste, since there are some public goods that would normally not be provided for by "the market".

Also, I look at the tax increase and stimulus being proposed as insurance coverage. Right now, the economy is in a recession. People are losing their jobs. The smart/educated ones find new jobs, and those that don't end up on the streets, homeless, or worse yet, stealing my sh$t. I'd rather take a 3-4% tax increase to be able to give some schmuck $800 a month as a welfare payment so that he can eat without having to steal my car. The average Joe, despite the foolish perception that "everyone is equal" can't adjust their lifestyle/education/way of life quickly. Yes, people spent more than they were making, and they shouldn't have, blah blah blah. But what also happend in the market is that the job cuts and credit cuts happened way too fast for people to be able to handle. Now I'm not saying that the average person is an idiot, but they aren't a rocket scientist either. Going from $40K per year to $0 with no warning is just too quick. Which is where these "welfare" programs come in. Yes, there will be some abuse in the system, but the average person just wants a job and if we have to take care of people for the next several years before things pick up, so be it.

Very similar to what we all preach with preventative medicine. I would rather take a hit up front, as opposed to dealing with getting car-jacked or getting mugged on a regular basis. Not to be cynical, but that is something we need to worry about if things get much worse. The unemployment rate in the inner-city is over 50% in Milwaukee right now. I'm sure it's no different in Baltimore, the Bronx, Compton, Beverly Hills (ok, maybe not), or *insert-major innercity-here*.

Just think of it as temporary insurance coverage. There are cycles in life, and this is one of those down times. After things pick up, we can talk about cutting back but the bottom line is right now, we have no work for the workers so those with the big pockets have to dole some cash out. Just be happy we aren't in Argentina, China, or some place that will take a big hit like Nigeria when oil bottoms out.

hear hear!

 

[2win]

In general when you have a fixed rate loan, inflation is your friend because prices and wages go up, while your monthly payments stay put...

And right now the biggest worry is deflation. Inflation isn't nearly as nasty.

Again you're wrong, when you have inflation the real value of the house is going down too...
Nuff said - I have to work in order to pay some taxes (just to remove the manure odor per THE GREAT PRESIDENT OBAMA)!
Good luck to you and lazy people around the world!
Singing: The Internationale
Arise, wretched of the earth
Arise, convicts of hunger
Reason thunders in its volcano
This is the eruption of the end
Of the past let us wipe the slate clean
Masses, slaves, arise, arise
The world is about to change its foundation
We are nothing, let us be all
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :
There are no supreme saviours
Neither God, nor Caeser, nor tribune.
Producers, let us save ourselves
Decree the common welfare
That the thief might bear his throat,
That the spirit be pulled from its prison
Let us fan the forge ourselves
Strike the iron while it is hot
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|
The state represses and the law cheats
The tax bleeds the unfortunate
No duty is imposed on the rich
'Rights of the poor' is a hollow phrase
Enough languishing in custody
Equality wants other laws:
No rights without obligations, it says,
And as well, no obligations without rights
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|

 

[econdr]

Again you're wrong, when you have inflation the real value of the house is going down too...

When you have inflation the value of money goes down. The price of fixed assets like homes goes up. Inflation relates to prices, which is a nominal indicator and has no effect on real values.

 

[frank51]

When you have inflation the value of money goes down. The price of fixed assets like homes goes up. Inflation relates to prices, which is a nominal indicator and has no effect on real values.

The bottom line is that we will have inflation, not deflation as you indicated previously. If you can't understand why, read up a bit, its a simple supply and demand regarding the money supply. Also, what do you mean by "it has no effect on real value"? When you have pay more and more for everyday goods and services, while earning less and less, it equates to a lower standard of living, and with the way things are, it translates to a much lower standard of living for doctors, who have dedicated years of their life to education and hard work. I really don't understand why you're arguing with everyone over this issue?

 

[econdr]

The bottom line is that we will have inflation, not deflation as you indicated previously. If you can't understand why, read up a bit, its a simple supply and demand regarding the money supply. Also, what do you mean by "it has no effect on real value"? When you have pay more and more for everyday goods and services, while earning less and less, it equates to a lower standard of living, and with the way things are, it translates to a much lower standard of living for doctors, who have dedicated years of their life to education and hard work. I really don't understand why you're arguing with everyone over this issue?

I'm arguing that the bigger risk to our economy right now is depression aka deflation. The federal reserve and treasury are TRYING to create inflation to put our economy back into balance. That's why we have zero fed funds interest rates and the treasury is selling bonds to the federal reserve. It's called "quantitative easing" when the fed goes to zero interest rates and starts printing money to keep prices from falling.

see:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUKTRE52419M20090305

The risk is that when we get out of this deflationary cycle there may be too much money out there for the federal reserve to absorb quickly enough to combat inflation. But this is something they are working on.

see:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a2AbM9jQcAQw

 

[pstone]

econdr, refer to my most recent post above^. your talkign to a bunch of brick walls here. after understanding that, its easy to see why they got raped in the elections.

 

[econdr]

econdr, refer to my most recent post above^. your talkign to a bunch of brick walls here. after understanding that, its easy to see why they got raped in the elections.

lol. well I keep in mind that the title of the thread is "obama=socialism" so it's going to attract a certain type of world-hating conservative. I'm doing a good job though, eh?

 

[2win]

econdr, refer to my most recent post above^. your talkign to a bunch of brick walls here. after understanding that, its easy to see why they got raped in the elections.

Singing: The Internationale
Arise, wretched of the earth
Arise, convicts of hunger
Reason thunders in its volcano
This is the eruption of the end
Of the past let us wipe the slate clean
Masses, slaves, arise, arise
The world is about to change its foundation
We are nothing, let us be all
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :
There are no supreme saviours
Neither God, nor Caeser, nor tribune.
Producers, let us save ourselves
Decree the common welfare
That the thief might bear his throat,
That the spirit be pulled from its prison
Let us fan the forge ourselves
Strike the iron while it is hot
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|
The state represses and the law cheats
The tax bleeds the unfortunate
No duty is imposed on the rich
'Rights of the poor' is a hollow phrase
Enough languishing in custody
Equality wants other laws:
No rights without obligations, it says,
And as well, no obligations without rights
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race bla bla bla

just for your joy....

 

[pstone]

aha yea i think so.. i guess it takes away their "present a decently structured argument and we'll maybe be able to understand you" argument.

 

[pstone]

Singing: The Internationale
Arise, wretched of the earth
Arise, convicts of hunger
Reason thunders in its volcano
This is the eruption of the end
Of the past let us wipe the slate clean
Masses, slaves, arise, arise
The world is about to change its foundation
We are nothing, let us be all
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :
There are no supreme saviours
Neither God, nor Caeser, nor tribune.
Producers, let us save ourselves
Decree the common welfare
That the thief might bear his throat,
That the spirit be pulled from its prison
Let us fan the forge ourselves
Strike the iron while it is hot
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|
The state represses and the law cheats
The tax bleeds the unfortunate
No duty is imposed on the rich
'Rights of the poor' is a hollow phrase
Enough languishing in custody
Equality wants other laws:
No rights without obligations, it says,
And as well, no obligations without rights
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race bla bla bla

just for your joy....

speaking of posting song lyrics, maybe i should post up the anthem for nazi germany, you might like that.

 

[pstone]

anywyas i gotta get to class. cmon brick walls, dont disappoint me; post up lots of your bad ideas while im gone.

 

[Jeff05]

the number of completely disrespectful, distasteful, and trollish comments made by this poster should result in a ban. moderator, your thoughts?

Same to you. You are a doctor for christ's sake, try to spend more time working and less time complaining about your income in online forums.

Then you'll make the millions of dollars that you dreamed of as a premed.

 

[Jeff05]

ditto for ban.

econdr, refer to my most recent post above^. your talkign to a bunch of brick walls here. after understanding that, its easy to see why they got raped in the elections.

 

[econdr]

ditto for ban.

Moderator:

Isn't the topic of the thread simply inviting passionate political discussion?

 

[coldweatherblue]

speaking of posting song lyrics, maybe i should post up the anthem for nazi germany, you might like that.

Godwin's Law...

The only difference in the German national anthem in the Third Reich was that it contained an extra verse about the conflict and protecting German lands. Not sure how you're looking to use that to support your position.

 

[2win]

Moderator:

Isn't the topic of the thread simply inviting passionate political discussion?

In anesthesia we are passionate physicians - used with the stress, managing well the stress and dealing with it day by day. In the operating room there is no time and place for babies and lazy people. In a free market we are respected and recompensed for our services. If you would know some anesthesia docs you would know that are one of the best colleagues, fun, helpful and so on. When you will go in the medical school (maybe) and you will rotate in a hospital you'll notice from distance an anesthesia doc. maybe a reason that you are on this board is the diversity of opinion, the free discussion and the broad discussion spectrum ( from muscle relaxants to guns). You are taking your chance to use an abusive language and to suggest what to discuss or not. I believe (and look at my first post) that the actual regime is a socialist one, that ALL medical profession will suffer including anesthesia. The topic is related to our interest. Your agenda is totally different - maybe you are a part of the new task force of the Obama administration that are surfing the net posting against anybody who has the courage to tell the truth. And again :
Labourers, peasants, we are
The great party of workers
The earth belongs only to men
The idle will go reside elsewhere
How much of our flesh they feed on,
But if the ravens and vultures
Disappear one of these days
The sun will always shine
This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race ...
enjoy your favorite song!

 

[coldweatherblue]

Moderator:

Isn't the topic of the thread simply inviting passionate political discussion?

Discussing the political ideas is much different than baselessly attacking those who hold the ideas. Vitriol is not the foundation for any kind of discussion.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

the number of completely disrespectful, distasteful, and trollish comments made by this poster should result in a ban. moderator, your thoughts?

Threads like this make my head spin

If you have a problem with a particular user and/or post I suggest that you utilize the "report post" function which notes the complaint at which point the issue will be addressed.

The only posters who are autobanned are spammers, previously banned users who return, CRNA trolls, etc.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Alright so many reports have been received about multiple posters in this thread. Rather than going around and meting out "punishment" I am asking everyone to please just try and be civil.



My thoughts on this topic anyway

 

[Planktonmd]

I think someone should start criticizing dentists so we can get this thread closed.

 

[econdr]

I've been trying to quit this thread all day...

 

[pstone]

Godwin's Law...

The only difference in the German national anthem in the Third Reich was that it contained an extra verse about the conflict and protecting German lands. Not sure how you're looking to use that to support your position.

if i told you, it would violate tos. i wouldnt want to make these gop'rs happy now, would i?

 

[pstone]

Moderator:

Isn't the topic of the thread simply inviting passionate political discussion?

i cant believe they want to ban US in a thread thats named "obama = socialism" in the anesthesiology forums. ugh.

i should make a new thread thats called "obama says bite me haters"

 

[pstone]

the number of completely disrespectful, distasteful, and trollish comments made by this poster should result in a ban. moderator, your thoughts?

well at least you didnt disappoint.

 

[pstone]

I am left of center but personally choose not to participate in the vast majrity of the political type threads that revolve endlessly around here. Banging my head against a wall would accomplish about as much w/arguing w/ some of the blowhards around here I am not a complete blowhard and am very skeptical of many things going on w/politics these days but nonetheless I lean left. This forum has traditionally been very different from the rest of the forums on SDN (AFAIK since I don't go to many of the others). The threads are allowed to stay because that is what the forum wants and quite frankly sometimes it seems like we have run out of anesthesia topics to talk about.

The tone of this forum should be the last thing in the world that influences your choice of specialty. After this is an anonymous internet forum. We just have a lot of folks around here with very spirited opinions. Anesthesiology is the greatest specialty there is out there.

this is from another thread but i think its pretty much perfect for use here.


anyways im done with this thread.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

this is from another thread but i think its pretty much perfect for use here.


anyways im done with this thread.

lol. I am sure that others would think I am a blowhard.

I am thinking more and more about this whole Libertarian thing.

 

[igottaquestion]

Those who are advocating libertarianism to protect their hard-earned, high salaries, are still not addressing that this would imply free competition with nurse anesthetists. In a libertarian world, the "market"--not professional organizations or government policy--decides who gets to practice anesthesiology. Hospitals won't hire Joe the Plumber to do anesthesiology at $10 per hour, because it's not worth the ensuing lawsuits or loss of clients. But how would they not be more inclined to hire non-supervised nurse anesthetists for non-complicated cases? And what about the emergence of training programs for a level of care intermediate between nurse anesthetist and anesthesiologist, offering a faster training route to take on slightly more complicated patients for less pay than an anesthesiologist? The current high pay of anesthesiologists rests on market protection.

 

[2win]

Those who are advocating libertarianism to protect their hard-earned, high salaries, are still not addressing that this would imply free competition with nurse anesthetists. In a libertarian world, the "market"--not professional organizations or government policy--decides who gets to practice anesthesiology. Hospitals won't hire Joe the Plumber to do anesthesiology at $10 per hour, because it's not worth the ensuing lawsuits or loss of clients. But how would they not be more inclined to hire non-supervised nurse anesthetists for non-complicated cases? And what about the emergence of training programs for a level of care intermediate between nurse anesthetist and anesthesiologist, offering a faster training route to take on slightly more complicated patients for less pay than an anesthesiologist? The current high pay of anesthesiologists rests on market protection.

I was waiting for this and there it is - "free competition with nurse anesthetists". It was easy to see from the first post your hidden agenda...I would suggest to continue your debate in the midlevel forum or on the AANA website where your "brothers" are. I see you with a great future in the nurse world, charting vitals and day dreaming at the socialist world.
Don't forget to sing:
"CRNA peasants, we are
The great party of workers
The earth belongs only to men"
or - "the OR belongs to CRNA". Get back to charting!

 

[econdr]

Those who are advocating libertarianism to protect their hard-earned, high salaries, are still not addressing that this would imply free competition with nurse anesthetists.

Very good point. On the one hand, many of you libertarians say you love the free market, but on the other hand you fear competition from CRNAs.

If anything, the Obama administration will deregulate CRNAs, allowing them to pick up some of the slack from the shortage of anesthesiologists, reducing costs and increasing market efficiency.

What entrenched interests hate about Obama is that he's not afraid to take them on to make the market more efficient (yes, that means less pay).

There's a reason why we pay 15% of our GDP to health care while Canada and Britain pay only 10%. And our GDP is HUGE in comparison.