Obtaining US residency: Canadian CDN-MD vs. Canadian US-MD

[Flavcool]

Hey,

I've been trying to read and search a lot. Just wanna confirm some things.

Basically, officially your status is the same if you finish MD in Canada or the US: you are still a Canadian citizen.

Compared to a US citizen with a US-MD, you will be at a disadvantage in obtaining a US residency whether you finished med in Canada or US because some residencies just don't want to provide an H1B visa.

(I don't even want to see J1 visa as an option, it's pretty restricted).

Scenario 1: Finish US med school and apply to US residency
-easier to get accepted b/c you finished at a reputable US med school
-easier to get an H1B visa b/c you finished at US med school (see this link)...for some schools

Scenario 2: Finish CAD med school and apply to US residency
-worse off for both of the above
-have to take CAD exams PLUS US exams during med school

Is it significantly advantageous to finish med in the US for improving chances of admission into US residency (Scenario 1 vs Scenario 2)?

Scenario 3: Finish CAD medschool, finish CAD residency and then practice in the US. How difficult is this and what do you need?

As you can see, I want to end up in the US and I'm trying to decide if I should go to CAD MD (for 1/3 of the cost) or be set on getting into a US MD program.

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[Flavcool]

bump

 

[CyclistOK]

Easiest thing to do is be born in the US. Other than that, the earlier you get here the better (assuming you really want to stay here).

 

[medhearter]

You seriously think its easy getting into a canadian medical school?

hah.

There's a very high chance that CDN-MD won't even be an option

 

[Flavcool]

You seriously think its easy getting into a canadian medical school?

hah.

I don't believe I ever stated this.

 

[sindadel]

I was just looking at this the other day, and once you are fully qualified to practice in Canada (med school, residency, MCCEE exams and boards) then you can also qualify to practice in the US "simply" by taking your boards in your specialty. You do not have to take the Step exams. Naturally, you'd have to be eligible for a work visa in the end as well, or do the immigration paperwork - no getting around the two different countries thing. Doing well in residency, and going south for a fellowship would probably be one of the "easier" routes. But it would be a long immigration slog. Unless you're already married/engaged to a US citizen of course.

Getting into US medical school can be a LOT easier than Canadian medical school it seems from the stats - I suppose it depends to some extent which province you are IP in. You would have an easier time getting admitted though if you already had permanent residency in the US.

 

[medhearter]

I don't believe I ever stated this.

You didn't state it. But I guess the question seemed oddly ridiculous

I don't see why you'd phrase things in a way to say you could potentially give up an acceptance to a Canadian medical school just so that ''some'' (likely not competitive ones anyway) residency programs consider you in their US-MD pool. Canadian medical schools are not only inexpensive but highly reputable as well. i can't imagine you having a ''hard time'' getting into a US residency coming from a Canadian MD school unless you completely lost your mind and senses during four years of paying <20K/yr (CDN). That is IF you actually do get into a Canadian medical school.

heh.
ok i totally overreacted.

but basically i think it really depends on what school you get into

As in. Yea. if you get into Harvard, JHU, and so on then sure, give up your Calgary acceptance, and .. heck.. maybe even your McGill acceptance.

I just mean don't think that going to NYMC will make life easier for you than going to Uni of Toronto would, if you actually got in.

 

[Flavcool]

Someone's obviously biased toward Canadian schools lol.

If you notice, I put in the cost difference in my original post. Other than that, I don't see how Canadian schools are better than any top tier school.

 

[medhearter]

Someone's obviously biased toward Canadian schools lol.

If you notice, I put in the cost difference in my original post. Other than that, I don't see how Canadian schools are better than any top tier school.

I'd think McGill and UToronto are way up there. I didn't realize from your original post that you were talking only about top-tier US-MD schools

 

[Flavcool]

Well, I wasn't, but you've made a good point about the quality of the school. Still, I'm not too convinced US knows much about the Canadian schools from what I've read.

I'm in Ontario.

 

[medhearter]

what kind of stats do you have?

 

[Flavcool]

cGPA: 3.8225
sGPA: 3.81xx

(I'm not too sure on this cause I haven't been "verified") so this is using U of T's gpa scale.

MCAT: still needs to be done, I'm hoping I can pull a 35+

EC:

-One year volunteering at a long term care hospital with a musical therapist
-Work in a lab over the summer
-Worked on a project in this same lab (DHA and epilepsy)
-One published review article, second author
-Some other publications in review
-Presented my paper I was published in at Neurological Institute Columbia Presbyterian Medical Centre in NYC (My name for this even should also be published) (http://www.eaeeg.org/index.html)
-Maintain a website to provide lecture recordings to students

Awards:

-Dean's list last 3 years of undergraduate
-Dickson something something scholarship 2 years in a row
-Aiming for the top scholarship 4 years (This is almost an automatic thing though..)

That's about it but I'm probably forgetting something...

ECs are not too strong in my opinion.

 

[medhearter]

cGPA: 3.8225
sGPA: 3.81xx

(I'm not too sure on this cause I haven't been "verified") so this is using U of T's gpa scale.

MCAT: still needs to be done, I'm hoping I can pull a 35+

EC:

-One year volunteering at a long term care hospital with a musical therapist
-Work in a lab over the summer
-Worked on a project in this same lab (DHA and epilepsy)
-One published review article, second author
-Some other publications in review
-Presented my paper I was published in at Neurological Institute Columbia Presbyterian Medical Centre in NYC (My name for this even should also be published) (http://www.eaeeg.org/index.html)
-Maintain a website to provide lecture recordings to students

Awards:

-Dean's list last 3 years of undergraduate
-Dickson something something scholarship 2 years in a row
-Aiming for the top scholarship 4 years (This is almost an automatic thing though..)

That's about it but I'm probably forgetting something...

ECs are not too strong in my opinion.

umm. nice =p
good luck on that mcat
you might be running a little late in the game though...
but be prepared with all your essays and what not
and you should be fine applying to all schools of your choice (given you get the MCAT you're aiming for)

 

[Flavcool]

I don't want this turning into a what are my chances thread! haha But you think that sounds ok?

I was also worried about running late in the game...

If AAMC takes 30 days to get the MCAT scores to AMCAS and thus the schools, then that means I wouldn't be marked "complete" until October 4!

I didn't know about this whole applying early to US business until a couple months ago...

 

[medhearter]

I don't want this turning into a what are my chances thread! haha But you think that sounds ok?

I was also worried about running late in the game...

If AAMC takes 30 days to get the MCAT scores to AMCAS and thus the schools, then that means I wouldn't be marked "complete" until October 4!

I didn't know about this whole applying early to US business until a couple months ago...

Yes you would be running quite late. Plus you'd have secondaries to do during fourth-year midterms :S. Ofc you can prep your secondaries ahead of time. heh, yea, sorry din mean to turn this into a what are my chances thread! but i feel like giving advice seeing as you're a fellow U-of-T-ian. You might need to get more clinical experiences...seems like a weak area. and it really would help with that 35 or more MCAT if ure aiming for top-tier.

 

[Flavcool]

So is the general consensus that the longer the time I'm in America, the better the chances of continuing and ending up with a respectable position there?

I have been thinking of maybe not applying to US this year. It seems like everyone (including the med schools themselves) heavily stress early applications. Seeing as I will only be complete at best on October 4th, this puts me 2-2.5 months behind others that are complete in early - mid August (which is reasonable considering secondaries usually get sent out beginning to mid july, a week or so to do the secondaries, and some time to return).

This way I can concentrate solely on raping this MCAT. I can apply to Canadian schools b/c they don't have rolling admissions and hence everyone is looked at equally regardless of when the application was sent in. If I get in, I guess I will just continue here. If not, I will have a good MCAT score for the next American cycle, get more clinical experience, and best of all I will get my app in nice and early.

Thoughts?

 

[medhearter]

So is the general consensus that the longer the time I'm in America, the better the chances of continuing and ending up with a respectable position there?

I have been thinking of maybe not applying to US this year. It seems like everyone (including the med schools themselves) heavily stress early applications. Seeing as I will only be complete at best on October 4th, this puts me 2-2.5 months behind others that are complete in early - mid August (which is reasonable considering secondaries usually get sent out beginning to mid july, a week or so to do the secondaries, and some time to return).

This way I can concentrate solely on raping this MCAT. I can apply to Canadian schools b/c they don't have rolling admissions and hence everyone is looked at equally regardless of when the application was sent in. If I get in, I guess I will just continue here. If not, I will have a good MCAT score for the next American cycle, get more clinical experience, and best of all I will get my app in nice and early.

Thoughts?

sounds stellar

although you can still apply to the non-rolling admissions schools in the states
hck, even in rolling admissions, if your numbrs are good, u'd atleast get interviews..

up to you.

 

[Flavcool]

sounds stellar

although you can still apply to the non-rolling admissions schools in the states
hck, even in rolling admissions, if your numbrs are good, u'd atleast get interviews..

up to you.

Does the SDN spreadsheet with all the schools distinguish which are non-rolling admissions?

 

[Flavcool]

Well I've looked some more into the original subject and I've found a useful website. WARNING: It's from the year 2000.

Some highlights:

...[in regards to J1 visa]...Some countries, notably Canada, refuse to submit the documentation needed by its nationals to obtain a J-1 visa. Thus, it is becoming very difficult for Canadian nationals to obtain U.S. training through the J-1 visa mechanism. Some have likened the J-visa to the HIV virus - once infected with it, you're never cured!

6B. The H-1B Visa
The H-1B visa allows the prospective trainee to avoid the J-1 visa requirement to leave the U.S. for two years by petitioning for permanent resident status in the U.S. while in residency training. An applicant for an H-1B visa must be

(1) ECFMG certified;
(2) must have passed USMLE Steps 1, 2 AND 3 (Or NBME/FLEX combinations) AND
(3) must hold a license to practice in a U.S. state or territory before application.

7. When should I go?

This is a tough question and there is no "right" answer. What is certain is that if you want to get registered with the Board of the Specialty that interests you, you must do all your training from PGY-1 (post-graduate year one) to specialty in the USA. So for example if you aspire to cardiology and be able to practice as a cardiologist in the USA you must spend 3 years of Internal Medicine Residency followed by 4 years of Cardiology Fellowship. While you can do your basic medical training in your home country and join a US fellowship, you will not be able then to practice as a Cardiologist, as you cannot be 'board certified' without completing a residency first. The point to remember is that if you just want to spend 4 years training in the USA, you can just go over for a fellowship - while if you want to practice in the USA you have to go over for the whole lot.

So it looks like if you wanna practise in the US it's best to do residency there. However, what this author refers to not getting board certified if you do residency outside US doesn't apply to Canada I don't think (except for some states). See this website for how it works with Canadians with completed residencies wanting to work in the US. This site says the same thing except more detailed.

Also, I've looked at NRMP ([US] National Residency Matching Program). They most definitely place emphasis on US graduates before IMG for residency positions. Interestingly, Canada has been declining in the number of applicants to NRMP from 85 in 2005 to 35 in 2009! That's TOTAL for all of the Canadian med schools. Seems like a very small number. Most of their non-US applicants seem to come from other countries like India and US DO programs, etc.

 

[Quester]

Your stats are real nice, but I wouldn't apply in this cycle if I were you. I mean, it's already hard enough that you're an international but getting everything done by October seems a bit too risky. After all, would you want to waste your money and time knowing that you would've had much greater chance had you applied earlier? And 'IF' you didn't get in this cycle, you would have to make serious improvements on your next application.

Btw, will you be applying to Ontario schools as well as other Canadian schools this Fall?