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WTF? about 30 programs and not a single interview. How could this be. Should I make early plans for scramble? This really really sucks.
October 7th and still no interview
- Thread starter goooooober
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Well it depends -- if you applied to programs that you see people are getting interviews from, then you should talk to your dean. If no one has gotten interviews from the programs that you applied to, then relax for awhile. Lots of places wait until your application in complete and review all of the applicants at once.
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Blade28
When did you submit your ERAS? Reach and mid-range programs alike?
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1. Agree with above
2. Calling a few programs is not unreasonable, either. Make sure ERAS didn't eat your app, etc.
Last year there were 1.5 US senior applicants for each surgery position. It could be rough this year.
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I have applied to big names as well as average programs. I would say mostly average programs with a few famous ones. Almost all are university based. I submitted my application 1 and half hour after we were first allowed to submit our application on Sept. 1. My scores and resume are very solid. The only possible problem, which should not be a problem at all, is that I am a DO. I realize that surg programs try not to take DOs but if it was a problem, why have they not rejected me? I am just totally confused by this situation. I mean, I should have gotten at least one interview by now or a rejection. My application is still missing a couple of LORs, but that should not hold up any interviews. Anyways, I hope it is because they are waiting for me to complete my application.
just my two cents. i got a few interviews right off the bat. and then there was a gap of about a week and a half with nothing.....the only thing missing was my picture..... so i submitted that, and in the 3 days following that i got 3 interviews.....maybe its all just coincidence....but i would guess there are programs that wait until you have submitted everything before offering interviews.
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1. DO after your name is a stigma. Whether it should be or not is another issue. Last year there were 2.5 applicants of all varieties for each GS categorical spot. That was, by far, the most unfavorable ratio of any NRMP specialty. (Derm was 1.7, ortho 1.4)
2. A _couple_ of LOR's - when I applied, they only required 3 - so you're missing 2/3 letters? That could definitely explain the lack of invites. The DO is a rebuttable presumption that a program shouldn't interview you - you're missing the best material to convince them they should interview you.
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That could definitely be holding you up. If someone has thousands of applications to review, they may only start with ones with a complete file, i.e. containing all the LORs. Your app may just be sitting in a file until all the letters are in. Remind your letter writers again to get them in as promptly as possible and explain to them your situation.
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I think we all know that this is the main red flag on your application. "should not be a problem at all" is not very realistic.
That being said, it's very early still, and you may get plenty of interviews. Stay positive, and good luck.
Also, in my opinion, you should fire out 30+ or so more applications to make it 60 total, and you should do it NOW. You have to cast an especially wide net when you're a DO.
Agreed that you should increase the number of applications by alot. And those programs that you should apply to should be the more community based programs. I don't think that university based programs are going to look fondly on the D.O. Remember that you are applying in an M.D. match, for which there are more M.D. applications than spots by far, especially if you consider the probably thousands of foreign applications. You should also think of applying to programs in "less desirable" locations.
You should also search this forum for DO's who have applied in the past and places that they got interviews. That could help guide your applications to programs that are more friendly to you. I would also call programs before you apply and ask if they have offered interviews to D.O.'s in the past. That makes your application more high yield.
Not to be an a$$ or anything, but isn't the concept of an osteopathic surgeon inherently a contradiction?
You should also search this forum for DO's who have applied in the past and places that they got interviews. That could help guide your applications to programs that are more friendly to you. I would also call programs before you apply and ask if they have offered interviews to D.O.'s in the past. That makes your application more high yield.
Not to be an a$$ or anything, but isn't the concept of an osteopathic surgeon inherently a contradiction?
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Not really. The philosophy of osteopathy is about noninvasive medicine when warranted. They don't condone holistic medicine when you have been involved in a trauma and half your face is hanging or have a mass in your breast. The idea is to look at the entire patient and make great clinical judgements, something that is very much taught in allopathic schools as well. So, in conclusion, you can be an osteopath and a surgeon at the same time without offending anyone. As far as the application goes, I will wait and see what happens. I am highly competative and am not willing to go to Wanker County to do an allopathic residency. Worse case, I will have to do a prelim year or apply to a dual credited or AOA program in Michigan or somewhere else.
Interesting. Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like you have a good handle on where you would want to go.
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You need to lose your ego.....and learn how to spell.
"highly c-o-m-p-e-t-i-t-i-v-e" DOs are still routinely ranked lower than average MD applicants. Do a member search for NebelDO and you'll see that DOs with great numbers and lots of interviews still have to scramble. I think that he had a similar feeling to you about his competitiveness and had to learn the hard way that he was wrong.
Also, doing a prelim year doesn't guarantee a spot the next year, and may only marginally improve your competitiveness. "Prelim DO" sounds worse than "DO," i.e. being a prelim is another red flag.
If you really want to match on match day, apply to more programs, as you're 0 for 30 on early offers so far. Also, Wanker County has good fellowship matches and strict 80 hour compliance.👍
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njbmd
Check your list and make sure that it contains a broad range of programs i.e. community, university etc. If not, apply to more programs and have a range. If you do not get at least 10 to 15 solid interviews, you either need to apply to more programs or plan to try to scramble into a prelim position.
Planning for the scramble is a pretty risky proposition because you give up having a look at the program and could wind up somewhere malignant, with little ability to get a good letter to get you into a categorical slot.
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Thank you for the spelling lesson SLuser, it is great that you have an eye for meaningless detail. I was not entering an essay contest. I think at this point I will probably add a few more programs to my list. I just did not want to jack up the application fees if I did not need to. I also wanted my application to be complete first. But I think time is running out and I will add another 10 programs. The problem with applying to small community programs is not ego, but that I want to do a fellowship and I will be limited as a graduate of a small community program.
one thing i have learned while doing my rotations is that these fellows come from all types of programs. plenty from community hospitals that take only 2-3 people per year. I did my 3rd year surgery rotation at prob. the most malignant community hosp. in the world and all 5 chief's matched into fellowships. As a DO and applying to mostly university programs you are definately going to run into resistance no matter how strong your application is. if you look at these programs websites you won't see any DO's in the program, nor any DO's in the faculty. and as stated above multiple times.... strong DO = average MD dont agree with it but thats just the way it is.
and as for the community programs that seem so terrible. many of them are affiliated with the bigger universities and you do rotations at the university hospital so there is ample opportunity to make connections which will help you in getting the fellowship of your choice.
and as for the community programs that seem so terrible. many of them are affiliated with the bigger universities and you do rotations at the university hospital so there is ample opportunity to make connections which will help you in getting the fellowship of your choice.
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Sluser is right.
Your application is not highly competitive. It is not even competitive. How do I know? You applied to 30 programs and haven't gotten a single interviw. I'm betting that's well under 5th percentile among applicants destined to match. The advice you've gotten to do something different and do it now is good advice if your goal is to match.
No offense offended here - just speaking the truth in an effort to help you.
Your application is not highly competitive. It is not even competitive. How do I know? You applied to 30 programs and haven't gotten a single interviw. I'm betting that's well under 5th percentile among applicants destined to match. The advice you've gotten to do something different and do it now is good advice if your goal is to match.
No offense offended here - just speaking the truth in an effort to help you.
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Blade28
Some good advice in this thread.
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To summarize (other's thoughts and mine added)...
1. if you are missing LORs, then you need to get them in. As noted, some programs will only evaluate complete applications. It is not worth their time to sift through ones which are incomplete, because some applicants may never finish the process, wasting any time that was used to evaluate the application.
2. find out if you can look at the letter which IS in. Is there any chance it has some negative things to say about you? Or maybe it isn't outright negative but includes things like "between the lines" comments which are glaring.
3. it is true that some programs will not even look at an application from a DO, fair or not. I hope that the programs you've applied to have a history of taking DOs as residents.
4. While big name and other university programs often have good track records in getting people into fellowships, it is not true that a community program will hinder you. Some might, but then again, most of us here know people who got prestigious fellowships from relatively no-name community residencies. At this point, you need a position, preferably a Categorical position, and that should come first. Wanker Hospital might just be a good training place.
5. I assume you are applying to the osteopathic match as well? It can be your best bet, or at least help your application chances.
6. It is time for your faculty to start calling programs you've applied to and talking to their buddies on faculty and finding out why you haven't been invited for an interview. Surely some of your faculty knows faculty elsewhere and can call in a favor, or at least find out what's happening with your application.
7. General surgery interviews go on until early February - there still may be time, but be proactive in trying to get them.
8. 30 applications without an interview tells me something is wrong - I don't know if its being an osteopath, applying to programs for which you are not really competitive, glaring errors in your application, problems with your LORs, or even an incomplete application. Are you sure programs have actually been able to download it? Its time to call in favors yourself - if you know residents at programs where you applied, besides having your faculty call, check with those residents to see if they can shed some light for you. Have a faculty member review your app to see if they think there's anything amiss. And apply to more programs.
1. if you are missing LORs, then you need to get them in. As noted, some programs will only evaluate complete applications. It is not worth their time to sift through ones which are incomplete, because some applicants may never finish the process, wasting any time that was used to evaluate the application.
2. find out if you can look at the letter which IS in. Is there any chance it has some negative things to say about you? Or maybe it isn't outright negative but includes things like "between the lines" comments which are glaring.
3. it is true that some programs will not even look at an application from a DO, fair or not. I hope that the programs you've applied to have a history of taking DOs as residents.
4. While big name and other university programs often have good track records in getting people into fellowships, it is not true that a community program will hinder you. Some might, but then again, most of us here know people who got prestigious fellowships from relatively no-name community residencies. At this point, you need a position, preferably a Categorical position, and that should come first. Wanker Hospital might just be a good training place.
5. I assume you are applying to the osteopathic match as well? It can be your best bet, or at least help your application chances.
6. It is time for your faculty to start calling programs you've applied to and talking to their buddies on faculty and finding out why you haven't been invited for an interview. Surely some of your faculty knows faculty elsewhere and can call in a favor, or at least find out what's happening with your application.
7. General surgery interviews go on until early February - there still may be time, but be proactive in trying to get them.
8. 30 applications without an interview tells me something is wrong - I don't know if its being an osteopath, applying to programs for which you are not really competitive, glaring errors in your application, problems with your LORs, or even an incomplete application. Are you sure programs have actually been able to download it? Its time to call in favors yourself - if you know residents at programs where you applied, besides having your faculty call, check with those residents to see if they can shed some light for you. Have a faculty member review your app to see if they think there's anything amiss. And apply to more programs.
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Do you have any letters from allopathic surgeons/allopathic away rotations?
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If you want to do a surgical fellowship, you must first get into a residency. There are almost 250 programs and if your that worried then apply to every one of them. Who cares about the money? Also, if you want to do a fellowship, a completed residency at the allopathic wanker hospital is still much better than a completed osteopathic residency in BFE!
Also, I am a DO applicant that applied to 18 allopathic programs and have 5 interviews and 1 rejection. If your application is that good then you have not applied wisely.
Also, I am a DO applicant that applied to 18 allopathic programs and have 5 interviews and 1 rejection. If your application is that good then you have not applied wisely.
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I am a fairly competitive DO applicant to allopathic gen surg; applied to 30 mid range programs and have received 7 interviews. So we are fighting an uphill battle no doubt. I'm not sure what this adds to the the forum, but I do feel a warm sense of self accomplishment running through my body.
Have you checked the threads discussing who has sent out interviews already? Did you apply to any of these places?
Have you checked the threads discussing who has sent out interviews already? Did you apply to any of these places?
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don't none of u fret. i'm a prelim surgery intern and haven't even started filling out my eras app yet...oh **** i'm in trouble. u muthaf**ers better match!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I hate to say this, because I want to give you the benefit of the doubt-- but this is a bad attitude. Spelling errors in your application may just be one of the "meaningless details" that is lacking in your file. If you want to be a surgeon, you really should be fastidious with details. Your patient's will thank you for it 😉
