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Discussion in 'Internal Medicine and IM Subspecialties' started by bencejones, Jun 25, 2011.
You'll be fine homey...
You didn't get sophomore AOA?
Rough times ahead for you, my friend.
I have a similar app but I didn't get all third year honors, and instead received even mix of high pass/honors. I have a pub pending and can't be sure if it will go or not.
I don't believe that guy is trolling. I'm not either. I'm curious if anyone has any insight into the matter? I'm specifically wondering about programs like Hopkins Uni (Osler not Bayview), USCF, Mass Gen?
I'm personally not dead set on such programs but I can't help but feel obligated to try. Some info might help my anxiety levels, or it could make them worse, but I still would like to hear any opinions.
I think it probably depends on how you did in your medicine basic and subI. If you honors'ed those then you probably have a good shot at interviews and matching at the top programs. If not, you may get interviews by may have difficulty matching there. I'd think most if not all people who match to JHH, UCSF, MGH all have 240s-260s on Step 1 and the differentiating factor is really the clinical grades, letters and interviews
I'm really just speculating on the step 1 scores b/c it's not like anyone really talks about their scores in residency but from the board it seems like people who match there tend to have 240s-260s
hey guys, i'm from a top 50 US med school, step 1 score of 207, avg to slightly below avg grade in shelf exams, solid evaluations.
here is my list so far (trying to stay in the north-east):
please add comments/programs as you wish; so far, i only have 17 programs, but i think i'm gonna have to apply to at least 30+ programs.
here goes the list:
john hopkins babview
univ. of maryland
wakeforest north carolina
carolinas medical center
washington hospital center
hahnemann univ. hospital
univ. of alabama
mount auburn hospital
christiana care health system
thanks a lot for your time
i think the only 100% true thing that people can tell you is to apply to all places that you see yourself happy to get into, even if you think the chances are low. all you have to lose is some money. if you get an interview, you may have to shell out more money but that means your chances aren't 0.
If you don't mind chicago, UIC, Rush, Loyola.
Ohio: CCF, OSU, Case, Cinci
I agree that you should definitely apply to all the places you are interested in, it is relatively cheap and there is no harm. Based on what I've seen in previous years, these are my reactions to your programs. If you kill Step 2, then things will change:
Programs you will get an interview at (some of which I've never heard of):
Programs you will probably get an interview at if you do well on Step 2:
U of M
Programs where I doubt you get an interview (but you never know):
I think UAB, UVA, Bayview and Maryland are your far reach schools. I think, unless you rock step 2, they are probably not going to offer you an interview. Many of the people I met at UAB and Bayview were also interviewing places like Duke, MGH, the main Hopkins so the competition for these places is pretty fierce.
Tufts, Wakeforrest may also be diffficult.
The rest you have a good shot at if you do well on step 2. I would still put Jeff, Temple, VCU, EVMS, Carolinas +/- the DC programs all above average IM programs. The average board scores are 222 for IM so you are going to need solid letters and a solid step 2 score to get interviews and have a high likelihood of matching one of those programs.
Thanks for the advice instate. One of the things I've had a hard time gauging from the PD at my home institution and other various mentors etc is how competitive I really am as an applicant. Sometimes its hard to get good advice about where you stand and what different programs are like, so any other opinions/advice would be greatly appreciated!
I think you are in good position. Hierarchy usually goes either step 1 or clinical grades, then LORs then research. As long as you have some research you should be good.
I am at one of the "big 4". I had solid grades, a solid step 1, great LORs and 2 minor pubs. My pubs were pretty unremarkable. Granted, many of my classmates have PhDs, MPHs or masters, you don't have to have them as long as you have shown interest in research. With your scores and research, as long as your LORs are very solid, you should have a great shot at one of the elite programs in the country. I would be surprised if you didn't match the top 20 if that is what you wanted.
I recently matched to an IM but had to withdraw due to personal and family reasons that I felt it was important to take care of before starting a difficult year.
I realize that's not very specific, but my withdrawal was mutually-agreed upon and, from what I understand, would not constitute an NRMP violation (although I could be wrong here).
I am hoping to reapply for a PGY-1 position in IM this upcoming ERAS cycle. I realize my chances are significantly decreased at this point, but I was planning on doing the following:
1) applying to smaller community programs
2) applying to programs that I interviewed at last year but ranked lower on my match list.
Is this a fairly safe strategy?
In the meantime, I'm hoping to find either a research position or a job at a clinic. I also plan on studying and taking Step 3 in one of the states that doesn't require any PGY experience to take it.
Has anyone had a similar experience or even know what my chances might be at this point of ever matching again?
ANY input or advice would be much appreciated. Pretty desperate here for any help at all at this point. Thanks
I think you will be fine provided the personal/family reason because of which you cd not honor your commitment has been taken care of. Please be prepared to explain this to the programs when u interview. Also, apply far and wide, and you shd do fine. Talk to the program you matched at- who knows they might match you again.
I think it is a good idea to stay in touch with clinical medicine. Also it wd be helpful if your medical school internal medicine faculty/letter writers cd advocate for your at programs u r interested in.
this is great. thanks guys. unfortunately, due to scheduling issues with my school, i won't be able to take my step 2 ck until sep 23rd.
let me know if you guys can think of some other schools i can apply in north east and the middle of the country. thanks a lot.
You may also want to tack on the following:
-UMDNJ-all three campuses (RWJ, NJMS, Cooper)
-add BU if you're applying to Tufts - kind of a similar tier I believe
-Brown - it may be a reach but there's nothing wrong with that
Do really well on step 2, you will really improve your chances.
Agree- would study hard for Step 2.
There are research articles showing that Step 2 correlates more with residency success (versus Step 1), and these program directors all read the same research articles...LOL.
I personally know a decent amount of people who did average to poorly on step 1 and landed a good residency spot after improving on step 2. This is medicine, not derm or rad onc, there are a lot of residency spots and room for variability. Just apply broadly and be willing to relocate anywhere.
I am starting MS4.
Top 25% but no AOA
Honors Medicine and Honors everything else except High Pass in OB/GYN, Neuro, and Family.
2 co-author pubs (1 from college, 1 from med school)
What are my chances at:
I think your stats are very, very solid and you will considered for an interview at all those places. If anything, the lack of AOA and ?maybe? Step 1 would be the only things that would conceivably hold you back. I think you definitely get interviews at Duke, Michigan, WashU, Yale, Standford, Vandy and would likely not have a tough time matching at these places. I think JHU, Penn, and Columbia (in that order) are tougher. MGH, BWH, and UCSF are a different beast all together - I've seen some folks with incredible stats get denied at these places. It seems these spots are reserved for Ivy league pedigree top of the class types, or the X factor type (i.e. incredible research or amazing life story, etc.).
Be happy, you're sitting pretty.
Thanks KRichards, your insight is much appreciated.
Does anyone else have an opinion?
Does anyone also think I will most likely match at the Mich, Duke, Stanford, Vandy level? Or do you think I will most likely match somewhere even less competitive?
I agree. You have a very solid application. IM is becoming more mildly competitive, especially in certain markets, but you are the kind of guy who can find a match at those places.
EDIT: With that said, the elite spots (Hopkins, UCSF, B&W, and Mass Gen) are much more uncertain than the others.
I'll also add an EDIT: I placed a fair amount of weight into the med school you attend (UTSW), for a couple of reasons....
1. It's a good school that is nationally recognized and respected. I think the medical school an applicant attends holds more priority than people generally give it credit.
2. At least from what I've seen, UTSW (maybe because it's centrally located on the map) does not seem to fall victim to regional bias that can sometimes be seen in the interview process.
An applicant with your stats from an "average" state school I probably would not give the same chances.
please delete found the answer
For those that commented, when people are saying you need to do much better on Step 2 to open more doors, what type of a score are you referring to? Are you saying around a 230 (which I think is average-ish) or does one need to score above average to compensate like a 240+. I would like to know since I am in a similar situation (got a 210 on Step 1 and am considering IM or Peds), but I'm sure the OP would like to know as well. Thanks
hey how do i think is the RI brown university IM program....is it too competitive to get into?
Probably around 240. The people I know earned a score around 240, several years go when the average was lower in the 210s or low 20s.
I am a non-US IMG (I was born and raised in Toronto, Canada) from SGU.
I recently scored 233/99 on the USMLE Step 1.
My Basic Sciences GPA is around a 3. Mostly B's, some A's (~3), and some C's (~2).
I'm about to start clinical rotations in the US in August.
What can I do to improve my chances of matching in an IM program that has the potential to lead to a subspeciality? I'm planning on applying to many IM programs and even FM programs as a back up.
Thanks a lot!
With a score like that, I don't think you have much of a chance for IM. I'm sorry.
Just kidding. I think you're set for IM wherever you choose... If you really want to go to a particular place, set up an elective rotation there during your fourth year, and get solid letters of rec. SGU is a pretty well-respected Caribbean school. Your USMLE is solid. Nobody really cares about GPA that much unless you fail a class or have a red flag.
Don't know what your question was exactly, but don't even question your chances as a D.O. For IM, you'll get in wherever you want.
I'm sorry to say this, but... looking at your stats I don't think you have what it takes to match IM in this day and age. The fact that you didn't get High Pass in Ob/Gyn is very concerning.
"wherever you choose" might be a bit generous, most of the upper tier places (top 25-30) will not interview Caribbean grads. But that's not to rain on your parade, just being honest. I think you have a good chance to match at an average state university, which sets you up nicely for a sub specialty match.
I've mentioned this to other carib grads with number similar to yours. Essentially apply to every university program that has the fellowship you desire. You never know who will bite and the cost of applying is relatively cheap. Try to set up some aways at well known places to get LORs from writers who have some weight on them (i.e. full professors, chairmans, etc).
FWIW, I just did the math because somebody asked me a similar question in a PM. A little over $2K in ERAS fees gets your app to every single University IM program in the country. After dropping $250-300K on tuition alone @ SGU (and other Carib joints), that's basically free.
I and my wife only took COMLEX 1. I made above 90 but my wife only made exactly 80 and both of us really want to do IM either allo or osteo together in TX. I am sure I would be ok for it but unsure about my wife. Can anyone have any idea if my wife could get in IM residency in TX with 80 on COMLEX 1?
Hey guys, I juts got my step 1 score back last week and I was wondering how my stats hold up against some of the top tier programs - MGH/UCSF/Stanford..etc
Step 1: 236
AOA - with mostly Honors in MS1 and MS2
2 years of basic science research with published abstracts and a few awards, no papers
1 year of clinical research - paper published.
I know that 3rd year is the most important year but I just wanted to know if I am capable of getting in to these higher end schools.
I would agree you have a chance. The other piece of info I would want to know is what medical school you attend...
Doesn't matter with those stats. 230+ and Junior AOA? As long as you don't bomb your IM rotation, you're golden.
As far as your main programs go, you aren't necessarily excluded automatically because of your number. Just be firm in the application itself.
That's just from my experience, you'd be surprised how much weight your school itself carries.
My name is Daniele and I'm currently an Italian Medical student. As graduation seems now not so far, I've started evaluating the possibility of doing my residency training in the US, in the field of IM. There are a couple of thing that really worry me up, and every advice will be very helpful.
Here in Italy we get to medical school straight after high school and we graduate after 6 years. Due to family issues I've took two years off and hope to graduate at 27 year old. My grades didn't paid this situation, and they are considered excellent for our standards. If I got good USMLE scores and US clinical experience...could this situation held me back?
Don't get me wrong - the OP has a great chance, but 230+ and junior AOA does not mean you're "golden" for MGH and UCSF...
For what it's worth (I recognize anecdotal stories don't count for a lot in medicine), I know someone with 260+ on both steps, good letters, and junior AOA who didn't get an interview at MGH. I think being from an average school is what held them back..that's why I asked the question.
And I had neither and went to a crap med school and got interviews from both. It's a crap shoot.
Which is why the med school doesn't matter.
That and the fact that for what it would cost to attend a single interview across the country on short (<4 weeks) notice, the OP can apply to virtually every middle and top tier Univ program in the country. So obsessing over this is a pointless waste of time.
I think med school does matter to some extent but I agree that with solid stats like the OP has, provided he does well in his IM clerkship he should net a few interviews at to top tier places and get most if not all from those just below that.
I think the kids who go to the harvards and the UCSFs for med school are given a little bit of leeway. I also came from a no-name place like you and and have to say on my interviews I was one of very few from a similarly tiered school. Maybe it was just my interview days but it seemed like everyone was from Harvard, hopkins, Penn, UCSF or Stanford. At MGH there were like 40+ kids there and it was me and a girl from Pakistan who weren't from a Big name school. That was intimidating. Needless to say I felt out of place and bombed my interview.
Thanks for all the advice everyone. I go to an average school so I guess my road will be a little harder but it's good to know I have a strong chance. I just honored my surgery rotation and hopefully will keep it up this year. Thanks again!
I wasn't arguing whether or not the OP should apply. I was arguing the use of the word "golden".
Can't argue that this is a pointless waste of time though.