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Does any one know when is the program directors rank list submission deadline? Is it the same like our rank submission deadline?
Official 2017-2018 GI Fellowship Application Cycle
- Thread starter ShiShiMD
- Start date
Does any one know when is the program directors rank list submission deadline? Is it the same like our rank submission deadline?
Yes. Nov 15 for both applicants and programs
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Hey guys has anyone heard from Lenox hill?
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yeah, they went out last week
Does any one have a list of programs that has hepatology fellowship? I only found couple that are non accredited and take applicant without GI fellowship.
NIH
Missouri-columbia
Rutgers.
anybody knows more programs?
NIH
Missouri-columbia
Rutgers.
anybody knows more programs?
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C
Virtually none of these places give h1. They offer j1
arolinas, UMKC, Stanford, montefiore, Albert Einstein, Swedish Seattle .
Virtually none of these places give h1. They offer j1
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FYI- Rutgers has 3 spots
NIH is two year program unlike everything else which are one year
BCM also has more than one spot
Looks more like a pharm rep strategy than an academic researcher attitude. I agree with everyone, so unprofessional...
My gosh, that's such a bad advice...
thanks for the info. I checked most of those programs.
UKMC does not have a hepatology fellowship
Carolinas, Monti and albert are ACGME accredited now.
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Most spots are not advertised and many acgme accredited transplant programs have unfilled spots and they will hire ppl without GI fellowship with the understanding that you won't be able to sit for transplant boards. Call all transplant programs individually and try your luck.
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So has anyone started to receive any indication from programs that they really want you to match with them?
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Does it help in anyway to update programs where u interviewed at that you passed the boards? do they care? Does it help if your PD emails GI PDs for you?
Some programs did and some programs didn’t. I’m not sure how seriously they meant by saying they want to take me, or if it is just a courtesy... likewise if a program director doesn’t say anything, I don’t know if they don’t want you or if it is just their policy of not responding...
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Was this in the form of post-interview contact? I’ve had some very generic replies from programs after sending thank you notes. Along the lines of “It would be great to work together” or “ you have a strong application”.
A few fellows have told me that they’ve had much stronger interest like the chairman asking to meet during ACG. Are such things common? Or are there more strongly worded expressions of interest?
Nothing of this sort has happened to me or any of my friends. Not that it means anything, just saying it hasn't happened to anyone I know. I believe it is an ERAS violation for people to comment on your standing with the program. Most programs have said generic things like "you're competitive for our program", or "you're a strong applicant".
Since this is the second year I have applied, I can say based on my own experience that none of those strong reassuring words mean sh***. Last year there was 1 Division chief who told me "I know everyone at your training program and I know that I want you at our GI fellowship, you will match here". And guess what? he didn't rank me #1 because I wouldn't be applying had he done so (please don't ask me about which program it was...).
In short, programs blow hot air at everyone. They all want a good fellow just as much as all of us want a good GI program. I guess it goes both ways. It just sucks because the odds are in the program's favor.
Good luck everyone. ROL deadline is coming soon!
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Which is more reason why I don't like "thank you" (interest) letters. They know there's nothing stopping you from kissing up and in turn there is nothing stopping them from saying things to make sure you rank them high. Neither applicant nor program have anything to lose by saying the things the other wants to hear.
Two questions:
Should I email just the PD or also the chair at my home program that they're my number 1?
Should I email my number 2 that I'm ranking them highly (would love to come here if not my number 1, the rest are kind of whatever in comparison to these two? Also just the PD or also chair?
Thanks.
@ShiShiMD
@aProgDirector
@IM2GI
@gutonc
Should I email just the PD or also the chair at my home program that they're my number 1?
Should I email my number 2 that I'm ranking them highly (would love to come here if not my number 1, the rest are kind of whatever in comparison to these two? Also just the PD or also chair?
Thanks.
@ShiShiMD
@aProgDirector
@IM2GI
@gutonc
I know this might be a stupid question, but what are some of the most important factors to consider when you make the rank order list?
Because almost every program I go to, I really like them all, and they all seem good...
Because almost every program I go to, I really like them all, and they all seem good...
I'm in the same boat.
Questions I grapple with:
1. Do I go for the big fancy name that will require me to publish, publish, publish.....
2. Do I go for the cush program and accept that I may not be an academic.
3. Do I go for the big city? or small town?
etc etc.
I'm lucky that I have a significant other who will narrow my search down. There's no way my wife will agree to rank a rural program high on the list. I guess in the end it's different for everyone.
Some PD just replied generic stuff to my thank you letter, some contacted me 1 month after interview (I guess after they interviewed everyone?), some contacted me before I sent them any thank you letter, some mailed a hand written card to my home, and some emailed me offering a second visit to set up a meeting with a chief of GI etc...
Expresseions were mostly generic like “you are an excellent candidate” “we were impressed by all your outstanding accomplishments” “it would be amazing if you join our program” “we can provide training that meets your needs” “I hope you strongly consider training here”
None of them stated any other stronger words due to ACGME rule... so I think those words don’t really mean anything because if they have several applicants they really liked, they may say the same generic stuff to all those applicants... but if you’re high in their rank list but not their top 3(whatever the fellow spot) then you may not match...
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Wow you must be an exceptionally strong candidate. The fact that they went out of their way to write a card or follow up a month later I think shows they’re quite interested. I can’t imagine any program doing that for all 40-50 candidates that they interview.
Thank you. I think that definitely shows their interest in me and I feel grateful. But again, unless you’re their top 1-3, you may not match in this highly competitive GI fellowship. So I’m very appreciative but not going too crazy with those responses.
A program PD in Midwest sent a thank you email to all applicants on the interview day (they had only one interview day). I was pleased to get one but later found everyone got a similar message.
On my residency interview in 2015, a program in Texas sent a handwritten-letter to everyone. It is needless to say the famous episode that MGH internal medicine PD once said to everyone that they will rank them to match! lol
Just rank by your preference and gut feeling, not by the chance of matching!
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the home program should be reached out in personal professional manner.
the number 2 and others you should express your sincere (passion) to join the program.
Just remember do not burn bridges, GI world is small, and one day you will look for jobs in some of those centers.
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IMO connections do not get you matched, your research in DDW or ACG will not get you connected to anyone. (collaboration is important)
research collaboration is as important for advancing patient care, AS IS advocating for your patients. (advocating is important)
my advice to anyone who is interested in being a GI or any type of healthcare professionals (follow CanMEDs)
CanMEDs
C- Collaborate
A- Advocate
N- No discrimination
M- Manage (know how to manage diseases to relationships of all sort)
E- Expert/ Educate your peers and others (being 1 or 2 hrs explaining to researchers or others in different fields your research you are doing to advance patient care)
D- be a leaDer (learn to be team player then become a leader, a goalie in a soccer game, in my opinion, is more important than a number (8 or 9) captian or hot shot offense player
S- Scholar for life.
for more info on this matter please visit
The Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada :: CanMEDS Role: Medical Expert
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Not a GI guy, but was going through another competitive fellowship match. The PD of my matched program called me and told me that they are very interested in me, and I told them I hope to see myself there.
However, Previous radiology literature actually showed that there are only two phrases hold actual power in the game
From applicant: i am ranking you number one
From program: i am ranking you to match.
Outside of those two phrases, nothing should be trusted. Some PDs are known to “flirt” with candidates and I know people who did not match a fellowship where its PD wrote to them extensively.
However, Previous radiology literature actually showed that there are only two phrases hold actual power in the game
From applicant: i am ranking you number one
From program: i am ranking you to match.
Outside of those two phrases, nothing should be trusted. Some PDs are known to “flirt” with candidates and I know people who did not match a fellowship where its PD wrote to them extensively.
I am by no means an expert, but I'd say sending your ABIM report is unlikely to help. Most people applying into GI probably pass their ABIM with flying colors and sending a slightly above average score report could undo an above the average interview performance or research productivity. But please take more opinions into account before deciding.
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If anything, just send that you passed. I cannot imagine how this would hurt. It likely will make no difference either way. Programs may not have known that you took the exam and by letting them know that you have completed it means you can have undivided attention to your fellowship early on, and in your case if you had lower step scores, it can ease any worries they may have. Just my $0.02.
Totally agree, sending them a report can potentially jeopardize your position even further. If you were invited despite a low board score then don't pick on your weakness. Focus on what you have accomplished.
again, my 2 cents as well......
I think you should send it. If you really want to go the extra mile you can type up a quick letter of your impression of the breakdown. Maybe don't send it though if you did exceptionally well on the GI section because they may think you are too good for them....just my 2 cents as well.
My understanding is that most programs sit right after. As in the same day of the interview. My home institution has 2 separate meetings. First one on the day of the interview after all the interviewers have left. Second one a week after all interview days have been completed to finalize the list.
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Has anyone heard about Loyola in Chicago be in malignant?
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Also curious about this.
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As a disclaimer I am not a resident at either program but I have friends at both Loyola and Georgetown and have also been to both, and talked to other residents from these programs on the trail.
I personally have heard from residents and fellows at OTHER programs that both Loyola and Georgetown are very malignant and the fellows are seriously worked, much more than other programs. I was not told this from fellows at these programs, but I did get the vibe that they where tired. This has played a role in my rank list, due to my goals. That being said both places have very good academic reputations which for others might be much more important.
I know Georgetown has a rep (good or bad depends on the person). I know people who graduated from their surgical training and they seem to take pride in "how tough" their training is. The said people are also some of the most intense people to be around even in a casual setting. So I can't say whether it's malignant or not. But it seems to be "extra tough".
Rutgers RWJ is more research oriented and would say better program than Newark depending on what you are looking for. Newark has huge clinical volume. RWJ better in IBD and Newark better in hepatology. Newark is pretty malignant from interview impression.
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Any thoughts on Stonybrook vs NYMC...
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Both are clinical programs but RWJ is probably stronger. RWJ is in a much better location though imo.
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Georgetown is definitely a clinically heavy program. The fellows when I interviewed there did mention being overworked and that stated that it isn't the program for the faint of heart. This is a plus or minus depending on what you are looking for in a fellowship. Their EMR system though seems flawed from what I could gather during the interview last year
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Not sure how it would really help, especially since most if not all interviewers rank immediately after they interview you and often have meetings at the end of the day/week of interviews. I know that programs are not allowed to ask you how you rank them but you are allowed to share that information if you wish so maybe share with the top program? I think real updates (publications, boards, etc.) are still worth sharing now but anything else is questionable IMO.
I remember that we both had slow, anxiety-provoking starts to the season so I'm rooting for you. I really hope we will all be celebrating in a month. Good luck to everyone!
Whether it be helpful or not, I’m not sure. But, it could be potentially harmful to your career long term if you do it in a wrong way.
If you are going to contact, I was told by several of my Gi attendings that you should tell only your first choice program that you are my number one. If you tell other programs that you are my top and they rank you high but if you don’t match to that program, it makes you not trustworthy and some of this bad reputations are hardly forgettable. GI is a small world and you don’t want to burn your bridge. I’m quoting some of the words that I heard from several GI core faculty members.
