Official 2017 Rank Order List

[Seroquel]

Ayyyee, it's almost January 15 and time to start ranking so I figured we can start now. Feel free to post your thoughts about programs, maybe include how you would rank them and pros/cons so we know your thought process (especially if you didn't contribute to the review thread). If you wish to stay anonymous shoot me a message and I can post for you.

Edit: No anonymous posts please!!

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[Asklepian]

As a side note, although I am biased (I'm in residency currently), I'd be more than happy to try and provide any answers to questions or general tips on what helped me make a successful rank order list when I did mine.
Some general tips:
1. Fit is important.
2. Fit is not everything:
3. For example, do you have an inkling of interest in a competitive academic career? It will be more important for you to choose somewhere that will grant you the caliber of training you need then perhaps it would for some of your colleagues (even if you felt you meshed slightly better at a lower-tiered institution).
4. The majority of residents end up settling where they last trained, so keep this in mind when looking at locations.
5. Cost of living is important to many of us: take a look at the cost of living at some of your favorite places. What's their salary? Do they have a state income tax? What are housing costs like in the area? Feeling strapped for cash is just another unnecessary stressor to add to residency.
6. Having outstanding faculty, especially PD, can be a game-changer.

These are just a few off the top of my head.

Good luck!!

 

[Seroquel]

Anonymous-
I'm almost done with interviews and have a general idea of where I want to end up but some questions remain. Looking to stay in the east coast, liked the nyc area programs
1. Mt Sinai Icahn-I really loved the interview day, liked the residents. I'm interested in academia and possibly doing some research as well.
2. Hofstra Northwell vs Montefiore -Biggest dilemma is deciding between these two. I liked both programs pretty equally. Which is better for going into academic psych/research?
4. NYU- thought I would really like this program but the residents seemed tired during the interview day and there are too many sites to travel to.
5. Longwood-only issue is Boston which I don't like but the program itself is great.
6. Emory-seems workload heavy and didn't get the best vibe from the residents.
7. Mt Sinai Beth Israel-I had high hopes for this program but the changes have me worried that it won't be stable in the future. Otherwise, the location is perfect.
8. Drexel

Would appreciate any insight, thanks.

 

[FlowRate]

Anonymous-
I'm almost done with interviews and have a general idea of where I want to end up but some questions remain. Looking to stay in the east coast, liked the nyc area programs
1. Mt Sinai Icahn-I really loved the interview day, liked the residents. I'm interested in academia and possibly doing some research as well.
2. Hofstra Northwell vs Montefiore -Biggest dilemma is deciding between these two. I liked both programs pretty equally. Which is better for going into academic psych/research?
4. NYU- thought I would really like this program but the residents seemed tired during the interview day and there are too many sites to travel to.
5. Longwood-only issue is Boston which I don't like but the program itself is great.
6. Emory-seems workload heavy and didn't get the best vibe from the residents.
7. Mt Sinai Beth Israel-I had high hopes for this program but the changes have me worried that it won't be stable in the future. Otherwise, the location is perfect.
8. Drexel

Would appreciate any insight, thanks.

Just curious, when you say longwood, are you lumping both programs into a collective #5?

 

[clausewitz2]

Anonymous-
I'm almost done with interviews and have a general idea of where I want to end up but some questions remain. Looking to stay in the east coast, liked the nyc area programs
1. Mt Sinai Icahn-I really loved the interview day, liked the residents. I'm interested in academia and possibly doing some research as well.
2. Hofstra Northwell vs Montefiore -Biggest dilemma is deciding between these two. I liked both programs pretty equally. Which is better for going into academic psych/research?
4. NYU- thought I would really like this program but the residents seemed tired during the interview day and there are too many sites to travel to.
5. Longwood-only issue is Boston which I don't like but the program itself is great.
6. Emory-seems workload heavy and didn't get the best vibe from the residents.
7. Mt Sinai Beth Israel-I had high hopes for this program but the changes have me worried that it won't be stable in the future. Otherwise, the location is perfect.
8. Drexel

Would appreciate any insight, thanks.

Emory does seem to work its residents hard. They have quite a lot of ostensible home call that frequently requires coming in at night, or so all the residents I talked to at last year's interview dinner told me.

 

[clozareal]

Anonymous-
I'm almost done with interviews and have a general idea of where I want to end up but some questions remain. Looking to stay in the east coast, liked the nyc area programs
1. Mt Sinai Icahn-I really loved the interview day, liked the residents. I'm interested in academia and possibly doing some research as well.
2. Hofstra Northwell vs Montefiore -Biggest dilemma is deciding between these two. I liked both programs pretty equally. Which is better for going into academic psych/research?
4. NYU- thought I would really like this program but the residents seemed tired during the interview day and there are too many sites to travel to.
5. Longwood-only issue is Boston which I don't like but the program itself is great.
6. Emory-seems workload heavy and didn't get the best vibe from the residents.
7. Mt Sinai Beth Israel-I had high hopes for this program but the changes have me worried that it won't be stable in the future. Otherwise, the location is perfect.
8. Drexel

Would appreciate any insight, thanks.

For NYU, most of the sites are literally right next to each other. The three main sites (Langone/Tisch, Bellevue, and the VA) are within an 8 block radius (i.e., 5-10 minute walk from each other). If anything, the multiple different hospital settings is a plus since you get to see different psychopathology.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[lucydiamond]

Hey there, what makes you so concerned about the Mt. Sinai Beth Israel program? From what I remember on interview day, they stated that they're expanding the psychiatry beds and seemed pretty confident regarding the stability of the program. I'm considering ranking this very highly so would appreciate comments on what makes you concerned about the program. Thanks and good luck!

Anonymous-
I'm almost done with interviews and have a general idea of where I want to end up but some questions remain. Looking to stay in the east coast, liked the nyc area programs
1. Mt Sinai Icahn-I really loved the interview day, liked the residents. I'm interested in academia and possibly doing some research as well.
2. Hofstra Northwell vs Montefiore -Biggest dilemma is deciding between these two. I liked both programs pretty equally. Which is better for going into academic psych/research?
4. NYU- thought I would really like this program but the residents seemed tired during the interview day and there are too many sites to travel to.
5. Longwood-only issue is Boston which I don't like but the program itself is great.
6. Emory-seems workload heavy and didn't get the best vibe from the residents.
7. Mt Sinai Beth Israel-I had high hopes for this program but the changes have me worried that it won't be stable in the future. Otherwise, the location is perfect.
8. Drexel

Would appreciate any insight, thanks.

 

[Seroquel]

Hey there, what makes you so concerned about the Mt. Sinai Beth Israel program? From what I remember on interview day, they stated that they're expanding the psychiatry beds and seemed pretty confident regarding the stability of the program. I'm considering ranking this very highly so would appreciate comments on what makes you concerned about the program. Thanks and good luck!

This was an anonymous post, not me, so I don't know. I've also gotten some messages about this post too. Again, it's not my list.

 

[therunner12]

Guys, chill. It's clearly a fake list. They didn't know Longwood was two different programs.

 

[SmallBird]

This was an anonymous post, not me, so I don't know. I've also gotten some messages about this post too. Again, it's not my list.

I would suggest this years group consider not allowing anonymous rank list postings... people might try and influence others by creating fake lists, I'm not saying thats what this post was intending to do but the potential is there and it is perhaps more likely if it can be done anonymously.

 

[coyotelime]

I would suggest this years group consider not allowing anonymous rank list postings... people might try and influence others by creating fake lists, I'm not saying thats what this post was intending to do but the potential is there and it is perhaps more likely if it can be done anonymously.

That's a great suggestion. I was thinking of making an anonymous account myself before I realized anyone could do that - feel as though I'm much more likely to receive insightful responses if I stick to this account.

The anon question is suspicious since Longwood is split now, though I got a similar feeling at Emory as well.

 

[Seroquel]

Good point, I agree!

 

[scruffy821]

Speaking of "Longwood", does anyone have any idea how they're ranking or considering BWH vs. BIDMC? Feels tricky since they still share a lot of common qualities, affiliate sites, and of course residents.

 

[applicantwithquestion]

nvm

 

[splik]

also anyone who posts on here without posting reviews in the review threat, I hope you go unmatched

 

[OldPsychDoc]

also anyone who posts on here without posting reviews in the review threat, I hope you go unmatched

A sublime wish.

 

[StrangerFigs]

I would really appreciate some opinions about these programs - Case Western vs. Michigan in particular (I don't go to med school in the Midwest so I feel like my advisors don't know as much about those programs).

• Brown
• Case Western
  
• Dartmouth
• University of Michigan
• Yale

Some of my priorities:

• Child & Adolescent fellowship
  
• I potentially want an academic career (clinical/teaching > research)
  
• Strong psychotherapy training

I don't need any advice about the cities themselves - these are all places I'm very willing to live.

 

[SmallBird]

I would really appreciate some opinions about these programs - Case Western vs. Michigan in particular (I don't go to med school in the Midwest so I feel like my advisors don't know as much about those programs).

• Brown
• Case Western
  
• Dartmouth
• University of Michigan
• Yale

Some of my priorities:

• Child & Adolescent fellowship
  
• I potentially want an academic career (clinical/teaching > research)
  
• Strong psychotherapy training

I don't need any advice about the cities themselves - these are all places I'm very willing to live.

I'm clearly biased, but you will have no difficulty meeting those educational objectives at Yale. Psychotherapy training is strong at worst and if you chose the University Health track as a PGY3 it is unparalleled - you can have 25 weekly therapy cases! I was able to do this and it was an incredibly rich experience. There are many opportunities to formalize your development as an educator - residents interested routinely write book chapters, do medical education research, take education methodology electives, etc. One of the highlights of my training experience was giving an undergraduate lecture to the Yale students. I believe that Brown has a similar character to Yale but don't know much about the specific subject of the other programs.

 

[cfgsak]

Emory does seem to work its residents hard. They have quite a lot of ostensible home call that frequently requires coming in at night, or so all the residents I talked to at last year's interview dinner told me.

I am an Emory resident and I also got this impression during interview day. In reality though, I think our program is actually less work intense than other programs I interviewed at. There is only 6 mo of home call for all of residency-during pgy2, and you typically leave early the next day (before noon at the latest). Feel free to message me for more details.

 

[splik]

I would really appreciate some opinions about these programs - Case Western vs. Michigan in particular (I don't go to med school in the Midwest so I feel like my advisors don't know as much about those programs).

• Brown
• Case Western
  
• Dartmouth
• University of Michigan
• Yale

Some of my priorities:

• Child & Adolescent fellowship
  
• I potentially want an academic career (clinical/teaching > research)
  
• Strong psychotherapy training

I don't need any advice about the cities themselves - these are all places I'm very willing to live.

Michigan>>>>>case. case is nowhere in the same league as these other programs and would not afford you the same training or academic opportunities. even the forensics program is not what it was (they lost most of their forensic faculty a few years back, and resnick is supposed to be retiring this year, though he has been saying that for years). There really is no discussion to be had. also Michigan offers some really nice benefits and perks, in some cases unrivalled. They give your birthday off!

 

[StrangerFigs]

I'm clearly biased, but you will have no difficulty meeting those educational objectives at Yale. Psychotherapy training is strong at worst and if you chose the University Health track as a PGY3 it is unparalleled - you can have 25 weekly therapy cases! I was able to do this and it was an incredibly rich experience. There are many opportunities to formalize your development as an educator - residents interested routinely write book chapters, do medical education research, take education methodology electives, etc. One of the highlights of my training experience was giving an undergraduate lecture to the Yale students. I believe that Brown has a similar character to Yale but don't know much about the specific subject of the other programs.

Thank you for your reply! Yale will definitely be somewhere in my top 3 and I would be thrilled to match there. Are there ever more residents who want to do PGY-3 at UH than the program can accommodate?

 

[StrangerFigs]

Michigan>>>>>case. case is nowhere in the same league as these other programs and would not afford you the same training or academic opportunities. even the forensics program is not what it was (they lost most of their forensic faculty a few years back, and resnick is supposed to be retiring this year, though he has been saying that for years). There really is no discussion to be had. also Michigan offers some really nice benefits and perks, in some cases unrivalled. They give your birthday off!

Thank you SO much for replying! I feel quite under-informed about program quality because they all obviously put their "best face forward" on interview day, and I don't have a solid advisor at my home program. Michigan has everything I want and I also felt super comfortable and happy on my interview day, so it's definitely going to be high on my list.

 

[SmallBird]

Thank you for your reply! Yale will definitely be somewhere in my top 3 and I would be thrilled to match there. Are there ever more residents who want to do PGY-3 at UH than the program can accommodate?

I can't say for sure that that has never happened but generally residents have a mix of interests and typically people can get what they want. UH has PGY4 slots also.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

Thank you SO much for replying! I feel quite under-informed about program quality because they all obviously put their "best face forward" on interview day, and I don't have a solid advisor at my home program. Michigan has everything I want and I also felt super comfortable and happy on my interview day, so it's definitely going to be high on my list.

You'll find Michigan residency grads all over the place--from Pittsburgh to Seattle, and in all kinds of positions: academic, quasi-academic, public sector/community, and private practice. Good place to start any kind of career.

 

[abcdior]

Michigan>>>>>case. case is nowhere in the same league as these other programs and would not afford you the same training or academic opportunities. even the forensics program is not what it was (they lost most of their forensic faculty a few years back, and resnick is supposed to be retiring this year, though he has been saying that for years). There really is no discussion to be had. also Michigan offers some really nice benefits and perks, in some cases unrivalled. They give your birthday off!

can you please go into more details Re: training opportunities? both are university based programs. is training really THAT MUCH different that the other?
in what ways?

 

[postbacpremed87]

Michigan>>>>>case. case is nowhere in the same league as these other programs and would not afford you the same training or academic opportunities. even the forensics program is not what it was (they lost most of their forensic faculty a few years back, and resnick is supposed to be retiring this year, though he has been saying that for years). There really is no discussion to be had. also Michigan offers some really nice benefits and perks, in some cases unrivalled. They give your birthday off!

I was looking to rank Case highly next year (if fortunate enough to get an interview) because of location. My goal is to be a strong Psychiatrist that could practice in any setting. Should I reconsider? Case, CCF, Ohio State, Cincinnati are programs I am interested in.

 

[SmallBird]

I was looking to rank Case highly next year because of location. My goal is to be a strong Psychiatrist that could practice in any setting. Should I reconsider? Case, CCF, Ohio State, Cincinnati are programs I am interested in.

Based on your career goal, no reason to change your plan.

 

[SmallBird]

can you please go into more details Re: training opportunities? both are university based programs. is training really THAT MUCH different that the other?
in what ways?

It really depends on your career goals. Michigan beats Case 15:1 in NIH funding. Why might that matter? Many more opportunities to participate in research, write papers and chapters, and have high quality mentorship in specialized areas. These factors are only relevant for a small subset of career goals; if your career goals are contingent on these types of outcomes, it makes a huge difference. If you want to be a clinical talented psychiatrist and teacher, it is probably not relevant at all.

 

[StrangerFigs]

NIH funding by department for 2015: http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2015/NIH_Awards_2015.htm

 

[reca]

Hey guys, any thoughts would be appreciate on my rank list:

Michigan
Cincinnati
Iowa
Case Western
UIC
Wisconsin
Ohio State
UVA
Miami
Tufts
UMass
SUNY-Upstate
UCLA-SFV

I have a very strong interest in neuromodulation (ECT, TMS, all that stuff) from both a clinical and research angle. In terms of fellowship, I’m interested in addiction, interventional pain, or sleep. I know the latter two are non-traditional fellowships for psychiatry. I spent my undergrad doing research at the interface between addiction and sleep issues so I have some background. Interventional pain ties into my interest in neuromodulation.

So really, the most important thing for me is what will give me the most solid clinical training and also open up the door to non-traditional psychiatry fellowships. Location wise I’m not very picky. I’ve lived in NYC and Houston and went to college and medical school in a Midwest college town so I’m fine with the whole gamut of city sizes and climates.

 

[StrangerFigs]

SUNY

It'd probably be a good idea to edit your post specifying which SUNY - there are three I think (Upstate, Downstate, Stonybrook)

 

[Seroquel]

I'm almost done with interviews but have some trouble ranking the Minnesota programs, which is where I'd like to go for residency:

1) Hennepin/Regions: one of my favorite interview days. Pros: emphasis on the underserved, >200 psych beds, outpatient 2nd year; loved the residents and everyone I met.
Cons: I'm worried about all the travel between sites. Also, lack of fellowships.

2) Mayo: Pros: strong reputation of hospital, liked the residents and residency director, fellowships available. Cons: Rochester, formal attire everyday.

3) U of Minnesota: Pros: not as much traveling between sites, research and fellowships available. Cons: not as strong of a gut feeling during my interviews.

I really, really liked Hennepin but I'm a little worried about the lack of fellowships (especially bc u of Minnesota takes their own for the most part) and travel. But I feel like the clinical training is stronger at Hennepin vs u of Minnesota. Also how is the salary for psychiatrists in Minnesota compared to Illinois/Indiana/Ohio? Thanks!

 

[Merovinge]

I'm almost done with interviews but have some trouble ranking the Minnesota programs, which is where I'd like to go for residency:

1) Hennepin/Regions: one of my favorite interview days. Pros: emphasis on the underserved, >200 psych beds, outpatient 2nd year; loved the residents and everyone I met.
Cons: I'm worried about all the travel between sites. Also, lack of fellowships.

2) Mayo: Pros: strong reputation of hospital, liked the residents and residency director, fellowships available. Cons: Rochester, formal attire everyday.

3) U of Minnesota: Pros: not as much traveling between sites, research and fellowships available. Cons: not as strong of a gut feeling during my interviews.

I really, really liked Hennepin but I'm a little worried about the lack of fellowships (especially bc u of Minnesota takes their own for the most part) and travel. But I feel like the clinical training is stronger at Hennepin vs u of Minnesota. Also how is the salary for psychiatrists in Minnesota compared to Illinois/Indiana/Ohio? Thanks!

MN is one of my favorite states in the union, but with that in mind is there a compelling reason you must be there for training? There are very good programs (I'd argue significantly better) that are still very reasonable drives to short flights away.

 

[closerpine]

lol, SDN psychiatry is a graveyard for this year's application cycle. No one's helping out on this thread, hardly anyone is posting reviews on the review thread. What's going on folks?

 

[clozareal]

lol, SDN psychiatry is a graveyard for this year's application cycle. No one's helping out on this thread, hardly anyone is posting reviews on the review thread. What's going on folks?

We have more interview reviews posted than the last 4 out of 5 years in that thread. It's also somewhat early to post our rank order list for suggestions since interviews aren't over yet. Only one person at my last interview of 16 people last week was finished with all their interviews.

You don't deserve to criticize this thread or the reviews thread with a post count of 2. You should be asking yourself that question about why you aren't contributing.

 

[closerpine]

lol, chillax broski. I literally made this account an hour ago. I'll post my reviews as I finish typing them.

reca has multiple interview reviews posted and no one's given him/her any input. So how many reviews do I need to post before I'm worthy of getting input on my rank list?

 

[DisorderedDoc417]

I'm almost done with interviews but have some trouble ranking the Minnesota programs, which is where I'd like to go for residency:

1) Hennepin/Regions: one of my favorite interview days. Pros: emphasis on the underserved, >200 psych beds, outpatient 2nd year; loved the residents and everyone I met.
Cons: I'm worried about all the travel between sites. Also, lack of fellowships.

2) Mayo: Pros: strong reputation of hospital, liked the residents and residency director, fellowships available. Cons: Rochester, formal attire everyday.

3) U of Minnesota: Pros: not as much traveling between sites, research and fellowships available. Cons: not as strong of a gut feeling during my interviews.

I really, really liked Hennepin but I'm a little worried about the lack of fellowships (especially bc u of Minnesota takes their own for the most part) and travel. But I feel like the clinical training is stronger at Hennepin vs u of Minnesota. Also how is the salary for psychiatrists in Minnesota compared to Illinois/Indiana/Ohio? Thanks!

1) HCMC will offer what appears to be the most robust foundationg with which to build a clinical acumen. Hard to argue with 200 beds, newer facilities, etc. No doubt a solid training, you will leave unafraid to work anywhere in the world. It is unbelievable how much one can learn spending one month in the HCMC ED. Furthermore, it would be quite feasible to find housing between the hcmc and regions hospital. Commute isn't something I think you should be super concerned about (10-15 minute commute). If this is a big deal though, I mean no disrespect and thats totally cool! I think the one drawback here would be for those who desire to be the future of academia. This program is quality without the name brand. HCMC proudly advertises that they are about training excellent community docs vs. academicians. I think the PD really will try and cater to whatever you're looking for though, research included.

2) Lets face it.... Mayo's reputation isn't due to its psychiatry department historically speaking. Training in surgery or medicine subspecialties? I totally get it. But it is a little lost on me why this program is considered by many top candidates, while the other sites are forgotten alltogether. For those who value a brand name above all else, I suppose it does hold this, and a major advantage to this program will of course include the doorway it provides into research and an academic career. No doubt you will brush shoulders with some amazingly intelligent faculty, but you are still in Rochester, MN.

3) You still have to commute to Minneapolis and to Fort Snelling. Once again, I believe living somewhere strategically between Mpls and St. Paul can mitigate most meaningful differences in commute. I truly wouldn't let commute hold you back from the U of Mn or HCMC. The VA you'll work with is class leading for sure -- which means access to some impressive addictions/ptsd research if that is your jam. The hardest part with the U is the amount of faculty turnover in the past few years, lots of great folks have been lost. A promising new chair, from the bay area, will have an opportunity to do big things with this program IMO, but this takes time, trialing, and recruiting new faculty.

Salary: If you want to practice in downtown mpls, you'll do okay. However, if you consider working outside of the cities or up further north in Duluth, MN you will receive some very competitive compensation (in the neighborhood of 230k+). Can't speak to the other states, but I know psychiatrists do pretty well in ND, MN, and WI in general. Not to mention you can set yourself up with an amazingly low cost of living situation.

I think you'll be left with a tough decision for the rank, but you'll come out the other side a very competent and strong psychiatrist regardless of your choice.

 

[clozareal]

lol, chillax broski. I literally made this account an hour ago. I'll post my reviews as I finish typing them.

reca has multiple interview reviews posted and no one's given him/her any input. So how many reviews do I need to post before I'm worthy of getting input on my rank list?

That's probably what other people are doing too. One person who hasn't gotten advice on their rank list in <48 hours out of multiple others who did isn't grounds for claiming "no one's helping on this thread" and that "hardly any people are posting on the interview reviews thread."

No one is saying you have to post reviews to get advice on your rank list - splik will just curse you to go unmatched. You'll probably still get advice though. Perhaps reca has more niche interests (neuromodulation, sleep, interventional pain) and a wider array of program's he's comparing between (east, west, midwest) that most applicants who would have good input here don't have experience with that broad of variety. Perhaps I'm wrong though and someone will have experience with his whole rank list.

 

[clozareal]

Hey guys, any thoughts would be appreciate on my rank list:

Michigan
Cincinnati
Iowa
Case Western
UIC
Wisconsin
Ohio State
UVA
Miami
Tufts
UMass
SUNY-Upstate
UCLA-SFV

I have a very strong interest in neuromodulation (ECT, TMS, all that stuff) from both a clinical and research angle. In terms of fellowship, I’m interested in addiction, interventional pain, or sleep. I know the latter two are non-traditional fellowships for psychiatry. I spent my undergrad doing research at the interface between addiction and sleep issues so I have some background. Interventional pain ties into my interest in neuromodulation.

So really, the most important thing for me is what will give me the most solid clinical training and also open up the door to non-traditional psychiatry fellowships. Location wise I’m not very picky. I’ve lived in NYC and Houston and went to college and medical school in a Midwest college town so I’m fine with the whole gamut of city sizes and climates.

The only program I have input on is UCLA-SFV because I interviewed there. Since that program is truly a UCLA residency, you have access to the neuromodulation and the subspecialty clinics and services that you're looking for at UCLA-Semel, which you can do during your 3rd/4th year for your electives. You can actually have a ton of ECT experience there since they have a strong geriatric psychiatry department. From what I've heard, Wisconsin and Iowa have extremely solid clinical training.

Can you give us your top 5 programs so we can give you advice on them if you had to choose now?

 

[clozareal]

I'm almost done with interviews but have some trouble ranking the Minnesota programs, which is where I'd like to go for residency:

1) Hennepin/Regions: one of my favorite interview days. Pros: emphasis on the underserved, >200 psych beds, outpatient 2nd year; loved the residents and everyone I met.
Cons: I'm worried about all the travel between sites. Also, lack of fellowships.

2) Mayo: Pros: strong reputation of hospital, liked the residents and residency director, fellowships available. Cons: Rochester, formal attire everyday.

3) U of Minnesota: Pros: not as much traveling between sites, research and fellowships available. Cons: not as strong of a gut feeling during my interviews.

I really, really liked Hennepin but I'm a little worried about the lack of fellowships (especially bc u of Minnesota takes their own for the most part) and travel. But I feel like the clinical training is stronger at Hennepin vs u of Minnesota. Also how is the salary for psychiatrists in Minnesota compared to Illinois/Indiana/Ohio? Thanks!

You seemed to like HCMC/Regions the best! Fellowships are not competitive by any means and if you really wanted to do one, you'd be able to. Alumni from this program have gone to strong places for fellowships (MGH, Yale, UofM) so I wouldn't be too concerned about that. I agree that HCMC probably has the strongest clinical training since they seem to have the most number of psych beds of your programs, the earliest exposure to psychotherapy (2nd year has an outpatient focus), and access to a county population with lots of severe mental illness with Regions (and HealthPartners as a whole) balancing that out. You might have to go a little more out of your way to do research though.

If you really want to be in Minneapolis-St. Paul and if you are leaning more toward an academic career (given your desire to do a fellowship), then the U of M would be an excellent second choice too. It's definitely a less intense program with fewer call requirements (no call after 2nd year) and lower patient acuity than Hennepin/Regions so you may risk ending up undertrained. They also seem to do the bare minimum for psychotherapy but hey, the facilities are super nice! However, unless you want to be in mpls/st. paul and cannot fathom the thought of being in Rochester (1-1.5 hours away), I think Mayo has the stronger clinical training with better residents/faculty and access to more academic opportunities.

Mayo is strong in consult-liaison since they are a tertiary care center. You get to work with some of the leading physicians and residents in many different fields. Many of their residents publish because they are known to be more of a cush program with lots of faculty who are willing to mentor residents coupled with lots of downtime. They also have access to fellowships (addictions, psychosomatics, child/adolescent, and geriatrics), with the highest quality being psychosomatics and child/adolescent. If psychosomatics is your thing, then Mayo being an enormous referral center would probably be comparable to MGH for C/L training. However, their community psychiatry and severe mental illness exposure won't compare to that of your other two programs you're considering - it's actually one of the weakest parts of their residency program. Psychotherapy also starts year 2 at Mayo and you get a supervisor for it, but the number of supervision hours and different types of supervisors seem pretty low. You wouldn't have to travel much since everything is in one building pretty much and cost of living would definitely be much lower than in the Cities. In fact, many of the residents live <5-10 minutes walking to the hospital. Workflow runs very well at Mayo Clinic - they are famous for their integrated collaborate care model! However, if you can't stand wearing a suit every day, then don't put yourself through that. Otherwise, suit up and rank it highly.

Here's my suggestion for your rank order list:
1. Hennepin/Regions
2. Mayo
3. UofM

What happened to your other programs, such as Cleveland Clinic, OSU, Georgetown, UI, etc?

 

[StrangerFigs]

can you please go into more details Re: training opportunities? both are university based programs. is training really THAT MUCH different that the other?
in what ways?

Splik I'm still interested hearing your response to this if you think it merits one (the Michigan vs. Case non-deabte) - unless SmallBird's response is what you were thinking anyway?

 

[coyotelime]

The only program I have input on is UCLA-SFV because I interviewed there. Since that program is truly a UCLA residency, you have access to the neuromodulation and the subspecialty clinics and services that you're looking for at UCLA-Semel, which you can do during your 3rd/4th year for your electives. You can actually have a ton of ECT experience there since they have a strong geriatric psychiatry department. From what I've heard, Wisconsin and Iowa have extremely solid clinical training.

Can you give us your top 5 programs so we can give you advice on them if you had to choose now?

To piggyback, what did everyone else think of SFV? Honestly I heard some bad things from other applicants before going there but ended up being pleasantly surprised. I do agree with the sentiment that the PD is very hands off and allows for a ton of autonomy - which doesn't phase me either way. It's an almost too lifestyle friendly program for me- but my thought is I'd be able to gain experience moonlighting? Dedicated psych ED, good breadth of exposure between the "worried well" of Hollywood/Westwood and uninsured population. Huge con is the commute starting PGY2... but residents said it wasn't that big of a deal, as they were driving against traffic during lunch anyway.

Can someone from the Valley chime in on this?

 

[Seroquel]

MN is one of my favorite states in the union, but with that in mind is there a compelling reason you must be there for training? There are very good programs (I'd argue significantly better) that are still very reasonable drives to short flights away.

No compelling reason, I have no ties to the state but I like the twin cities. I just wanted to compare those programs in particular

 

[Seroquel]

1) HCMC will offer what appears to be the most robust foundationg with which to build a clinical acumen. Hard to argue with 200 beds, newer facilities, etc. No doubt a solid training, you will leave unafraid to work anywhere in the world. It is unbelievable how much one can learn spending one month in the HCMC ED. Furthermore, it would be quite feasible to find housing between the hcmc and regions hospital. Commute isn't something I think you should be super concerned about (10-15 minute commute). If this is a big deal though, I mean no disrespect and thats totally cool! I think the one drawback here would be for those who desire to be the future of academia. This program is quality without the name brand. HCMC proudly advertises that they are about training excellent community docs vs. academicians. I think the PD really will try and cater to whatever you're looking for though, research included.

2) Lets face it.... Mayo's reputation isn't due to its psychiatry department historically speaking. Training in surgery or medicine subspecialties? I totally get it. But it is a little lost on me why this program is considered by many top candidates, while the other sites are forgotten alltogether. For those who value a brand name above all else, I suppose it does hold this, and a major advantage to this program will of course include the doorway it provides into research and an academic career. No doubt you will brush shoulders with some amazingly intelligent faculty, but you are still in Rochester, MN.

3) You still have to commute to Minneapolis and to Fort Snelling. Once again, I believe living somewhere strategically between Mpls and St. Paul can mitigate most meaningful differences in commute. I truly wouldn't let commute hold you back from the U of Mn or HCMC. The VA you'll work with is class leading for sure -- which means access to some impressive addictions/ptsd research if that is your jam. The hardest part with the U is the amount of faculty turnover in the past few years, lots of great folks have been lost. A promising new chair, from the bay area, will have an opportunity to do big things with this program IMO, but this takes time, trialing, and recruiting new faculty.

Salary: If you want to practice in downtown mpls, you'll do okay. However, if you consider working outside of the cities or up further north in Duluth, MN you will receive some very competitive compensation (in the neighborhood of 230k+). Can't speak to the other states, but I know psychiatrists do pretty well in ND, MN, and WI in general. Not to mention you can set yourself up with an amazingly low cost of living situation.

I think you'll be left with a tough decision for the rank, but you'll come out the other side a very competent and strong psychiatrist regardless of your choice.

Thank you so much for your very helpful post! I appreciate it

 

[Seroquel]

You seemed to like HCMC/Regions the best! Fellowships are not competitive by any means and if you really wanted to do one, you'd be able to. Alumni from this program have gone to strong places for fellowships (MGH, Yale, UofM) so I wouldn't be too concerned about that. I agree that HCMC probably has the strongest clinical training since they seem to have the most number of psych beds of your programs, the earliest exposure to psychotherapy (2nd year has an outpatient focus), and access to a county population with lots of severe mental illness with Regions (and HealthPartners as a whole) balancing that out. You might have to go a little more out of your way to do research though.

If you really want to be in Minneapolis-St. Paul and if you are leaning more toward an academic career (given your desire to do a fellowship), then the U of M would be an excellent second choice too. It's definitely a less intense program with fewer call requirements (no call after 2nd year) and lower patient acuity than Hennepin/Regions so you may risk ending up undertrained. They also seem to do the bare minimum for psychotherapy but hey, the facilities are super nice! However, unless you want to be in mpls/st. paul and cannot fathom the thought of being in Rochester (1-1.5 hours away), I think Mayo has the stronger clinical training with better residents/faculty and access to more academic opportunities.

Mayo is strong in consult-liaison since they are a tertiary care center. You get to work with some of the leading physicians and residents in many different fields. Many of their residents publish because they are known to be more of a cush program with lots of faculty who are willing to mentor residents coupled with lots of downtime. They also have access to fellowships (addictions, psychosomatics, child/adolescent, and geriatrics), with the highest quality being psychosomatics and child/adolescent. If psychosomatics is your thing, then Mayo being an enormous referral center would probably be comparable to MGH for C/L training. However, their community psychiatry and severe mental illness exposure won't compare to that of your other two programs you're considering - it's actually one of the weakest parts of their residency program. Psychotherapy also starts year 2 at Mayo and you get a supervisor for it, but the number of supervision hours and different types of supervisors seem pretty low. You wouldn't have to travel much since everything is in one building pretty much and cost of living would definitely be much lower than in the Cities. In fact, many of the residents live <5-10 minutes walking to the hospital. Workflow runs very well at Mayo Clinic - they are famous for their integrated collaborate care model! However, if you can't stand wearing a suit every day, then don't put yourself through that. Otherwise, suit up and rank it highly.

Here's my suggestion for your rank order list:
1. Hennepin/Regions
2. Mayo
3. UofM

What happened to your other programs, such as Cleveland Clinic, OSU, Georgetown, UI, etc?

Yes, I agree with your assessment. I know it might sound ridiculous but I've thought about it and I cannot deal with wearing a suit everyday lol. But Mayo is probably the best program in the state. I wanted to compare the MN programs to each other to see their similarities/differences but the other programs in my top group are (in no particular order):

1) Hofstra/Northwell @ ZHH: Pros: >200 beds, beautiful campus, opportunity for some research but also strong community aspect; loved the residents and faculty I met, awesome PD. Cons: $$ to live in nyc, far from family

2) U of Chicago: Pros: gut feeling probably strongest here, loved the residents/faculty, work schedule manageable, close to family. Cons: no inpatient unit but biggest issue is the long commutes to the other sites. I hate driving for long distances and driving in the Chicago traffic esp in the winter does not sound appealing.

3) OSU: Pros: solid program, fairly cush schedule, pretty much all fellowships available, and little travel between sites. Cons: not too excited about moving to Columbus although it isn't too bad, not as excited about this versus first two.

So I guess I am deciding between Hofstra Northwell, Hennepin-Regions, and U of Chicago. Most important for me are patient diversity/underserved patient population and strong clinical training.

 

[SmallBird]

Yes, I agree with your assessment. I know it might sound ridiculous but I've thought about it and I cannot deal with wearing a suit everyday lol. But Mayo is probably the best program in the state. I wanted to compare the MN programs to each other to see their similarities/differences but the other programs in my top group are (in no particular order):

1) Hofstra/Northwell @ ZHH: Pros: >200 beds, beautiful campus, opportunity for some research but also strong community aspect; loved the residents and faculty I met, awesome PD. Cons: $$ to live in nyc, far from family

2) U of Chicago: Pros: gut feeling probably strongest here, loved the residents/faculty, work schedule manageable, close to family. Cons: no inpatient unit but biggest issue is the long commutes to the other sites. I hate driving for long distances and driving in the Chicago traffic esp in the winter does not sound appealing.

3) OSU: Pros: solid program, fairly cush schedule, pretty much all fellowships available, and little travel between sites. Cons: not too excited about moving to Columbus although it isn't too bad, not as excited about this versus first two.

So I guess I am deciding between Hofstra Northwell, Hennepin-Regions, and U of Chicago. Most important for me are patient diversity/underserved patient population and strong clinical training.

When you say U of C has no inpatient - there must be some inpatient unit right? If it's just that the academic hospital doesn't have one that's no big deal. If there are no inpatient rotations on psychiatry I would think that is a massive problem.

 

[Seroquel]

When you say U of C has no inpatient - there must be some inpatient unit right? If it's just that the academic hospital doesn't have one that's no big deal. If there are no inpatient rotations on psychiatry I would think that is a massive problem.

Loool no they do, but it's not at the medical center.

 

[clozareal]

When you say U of C has no inpatient - there must be some inpatient unit right? If it's just that the academic hospital doesn't have one that's no big deal. If there are no inpatient rotations on psychiatry I would think that is a massive problem.

Since UChicago Medicine closed down their inpt psych unit several years ago, residents do their rotation at two different hospitals with psychiatric inpatient units, both of which have strong ties to the University of Chicago Medical Center. One of them is going to be new and shiny! Unfortunately, they are 30 mins - 1 hour away by car through downtown traffic. The CTA (train system in Chicago) is even slower and less reliable especially during the winter. However, don't forget that this depends on where you live in relation to those sites and it can be much shorter to go there if you live between them.

tl;dr - yes they do have inpatient psych rotations, but at satellite hospitals.

 

[melonballer]

Anyone here have thoughts about Yale vs. Columbia for someone interested in public (or possibly forensic psychiatry), mental health policy research and medical education? Might want to do child too. I loved both programs but fell head over heels for one with personal/location reasons compelling me towards the other. Hoping input might help me choose which to rank 1 and which to rank 2.

 

[Salpingo]

Anyone here have thoughts about Yale vs. Columbia for someone interested in public (or possibly forensic psychiatry), mental health policy research and medical education? Might want to do child too. I loved both programs but fell head over heels for one with personal/location reasons compelling me towards the other. Hoping input might help me choose which to rank 1 and which to rank 2.

Can't go wrong with either -- I think they both select for highly self-motivated people who can start their own projects. My sense is that Yale is a much warmer environment and more supportive if its trainees (both elective scheduling and general structure of the program), while Columbia has more of a mix of faculty interested in education vs. their own academic endeavors. Obviously, biggest difference is location and quality of life, but they're still only about 1.5 to 2 hours apart, and Columbia has higher cache (which is not necessarily going to have a meaningful impact on your career).

You can always split the difference and do residency at Yale + community psych fellowship at Columbia, but I'd say go with location/personal reasons.