[Official] 2019-2020 PM&R Away Rotations

[strb_thndr]

Hey all! I'm a 3rd year med student applying to PM&R this fall. I wanted to start a discussion thread as a resource regarding all things VSAS/VSLO/timeline/program characteristics/student expectations/etc. for those of us planning away/audition rotations. There was a similar thread started last year that seemed to be pretty effective/helpful. Thank you in advance for your contribution and good luck to everyone!

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[strb_thndr]

So far, I have applied to Nebraska, Vanderbilt, Minnesota, Missouri, KU, Ohio State, UC Irvine, Honor Health Phoenix, Georgetown, UT HSC San Antonio, University of Kentucky, UTSW, Utah, UT HSC Houston, Baylor, VCU, UC Davis, Metro Health (Cleveland), and Rush.

Received an offer from UT HSC San Antonio Long for September.

Rejected by University of Missouri (did not meet immunization requirements) and University of Nebraska (did not meet state background check requirement).

 

[strb_thndr]

Was just accepted to Georgetown for an away has anyone heard anything about the program?

I've heard the residents are very nice and hang out often, resident room is awesome (large with windows, nice couches, big flat screen TV), PD is very approachable and open to feedback, well rounded curriculum, good U.S. training.

 

[strb_thndr]

Anyone currently MS3 applying for aways? I'm so confused in term of timeline of applying for them. I'm trying to do aways around mid August/September. but it seems like most programs listed on VSAS are much earlier (around June). Also I couldn't find many programs that I expected to find on VSAS. Is it too early to apply for aways at this point? When do you start applying for them?

I have similar questions as above.... anyone that can help elucidate this process?

Most of the programs are accepting applications on VSAS/VSLO now. Off the top of my head, I know UNC opens 4/22 and Cincinnati, Louisville, and USF open 5/1. Spots are filled on a first-come, first-serve basis. I have a friend who applied to a program few hours before me, and received an offer a few hours before me (almost to the minute). I received a rejection from Ohio State today for the months of August-November because the "spots are full." It opened on April 1st, and I submitted April 1st at 8 AM PST.

 

[smak26]

Been accepted to OSU and MSU Lansing so far.

 

[Shawn Clancy]

Thanks for making this thread and for the Georgetown info! Congrats on the UT HSC acceptance!

 

[strb_thndr]

Been accepted to OSU and MSU Lansing so far.

Congrats on the 2 offers! Have you heard anything about the OSU rotation?

 

[strb_thndr]

Thanks for making this thread and for the Georgetown info! Congrats on the UT HSC acceptance!

Of course! Congrats to you too! A friend of mine also got an offer from Georgetown. I submitted my app the same time, still waiting to hear back...

 

[smak26]

Congrats on the 2 offers! Have you heard anything about the OSU rotation?

I have not yet accepted the offer, so no. Once I decide, I will post updates.

 

[Shawn Clancy]

Was anyone accepted to UMich for August and would be willing to switch dates to for September?

 

[strb_thndr]

Just received an offer from Kentucky for August!

 

[megan1010]

How many away rotations are you guys applying to for 1 spot?

Are you applying broadly or to top programs? I feel like I really don't know how many to apply to in order to secure 1 away rotation. I've heard applying to too many is a bad thing.

When do most schools give notice back after receiving your application?

 

[smak26]

I just got accepted to Northwestern. Mayo denied my application last week.

 

[Shawn Clancy]

How many away rotations are you guys applying to for 1 spot?

Are you applying broadly or to top programs? I feel like I really don't know how many to apply to in order to secure 1 away rotation. I've heard applying to too many is a bad thing.

When do most schools give notice back after receiving your application?

I'm going for 2 spots and I applied to 6. I don't think applying to many is a bad thing as long you don't accept one offer then cancel it late. And it's super variable for when schools give notice back, I heard back from Georgetown one week after then Michigan three weeks after but I haven't heard back from any others.

 

[smak26]

The information is given in VSAS under Important Dates. In my experience, you can expect to hear a little sooner than those dates. It is very stressful to keep seeing the application status as pending with no movement. But, don't worry, things do move and decisions will come soon. Good Luck.

How many away rotations are you guys applying to for 1 spot?

Are you applying broadly or to top programs? I feel like I really don't know how many to apply to in order to secure 1 away rotation. I've heard applying to too many is a bad thing.

When do most schools give notice back after receiving your application?

There was really no guidance as to how many rotations to apply to. So, I applied to about 12-15 programs.

I applied broadly and the response has been strange. I was immediately rejected by Beaumont and Henry Ford, but was accepted by NW and OSU.
I am not sure about how bad it is to applying to too many programs. Maybe someone else can guide you with that....As soon as I got accepted by a program, I withdrew my application from all other programs for that period.

The information is given in VSAS under Important Dates. In my experience, you can expect to hear a little sooner than those dates. It is very stressful to keep seeing the application status as pending with no movement. But, don't worry, things do move and decisions will come soon. Good Luck.

 

[exodian1]

Applied to a bunch of programs. Got a couple of rejections. Right now got accepted at MSU, University of Missouri, Schwab Rehab, and University of Kentucky. Gonna turn down Kentucky since it's at the same time as MSU

 

[strb_thndr]

How many away rotations are you guys applying to for 1 spot?

Are you applying broadly or to top programs? I feel like I really don't know how many to apply to in order to secure 1 away rotation. I've heard applying to too many is a bad thing.

When do most schools give notice back after receiving your application?

I'm going for 2 spots and I applied to 6. I don't think applying to many is a bad thing as long you don't accept one offer then cancel it late. And it's super variable for when schools give notice back, I heard back from Georgetown one week after then Michigan three weeks after but I haven't heard back from any others.

There was really no guidance as to how many rotations to apply to. So, I applied to about 12-15 programs.

I applied broadly and the response has been strange. I was immediately rejected by Beaumont and Henry Ford, but was accepted by NW and OSU.
I am not sure about how bad it is to applying to too many programs. Maybe someone else can guide you with that....As soon as I got accepted by a program, I withdrew my application from all other programs for that period.

The information is given in VSAS under Important Dates. In my experience, you can expect to hear a little sooner than those dates. It is very stressful to keep seeing the application status as pending with no movement. But, don't worry, things do move and decisions will come soon. Good Luck.

I originally planned to apply to 10 programs, but after a string of rejections based on technicalities, I decided to apply to closer to 20. You should really only apply to programs you actually see yourself going to. The only downside I see to applying to too many programs, is being forced to make a decision on an offer from a program you're not as interested in before hearing back from ones you ARE more interested in. Some programs give you one week to decide, others give you closer to a month. It seems that cancelling an offer after accepting could essentially blacklist you and prevent you from getting an interview invite down the road.

I think 2-3 is a good final number to shoot for. The traditional strategy is to start with a safe-bet program (in terms of their ranking and your stats) to get your feet wet, then move onto top-tier programs or your top-choice programs. Doing an audition rotation at your top-choice program later in the cycle works to your advantage in two ways: 1) you are fresh in the minds of residents and PD's making their rank lists in February, 2) you have more practice and experience from your prior audition rotations.

In my experience so far, although most PM&R programs claim they will give students an application decision after 4/1 or 5/1, I have not found this to be the case. I submitted several applications in March, and have yet to hear back from them.

 

[strb_thndr]

Has anyone heard back from any of the west coast programs e.g. California, Utah, Texas, or know when they will be getting back to us?

 

[sardonicmedicine]

Can we get confirmation from current PM&R residents (or attendings!) in this forum on whether cancelling an away rotation early (defined as > 2 months notice) does indeed blacklist you from getting an interview invite? Another way to word the question: has anyone gotten an interview invite from (or better yet matched at) a place they cancelled an away rotation?

 

[2ndtimesthecharm]

I kind of fell behind with getting everything ready for VSAS, but now everything is ready except my school hasn't uploaded my transcript. Since I am behind on applying, anyone have any idea on how many programs I should apply to?

 

[strb_thndr]

I kind of fell behind with getting everything ready for VSAS, but now everything is ready except my school hasn't uploaded my transcript. Since I am behind on applying, anyone have any idea on how many programs I should apply to?

Since there's an element of first come, first serve to this process, I would focus on programs that just opened this month and/or are going to open May 1st. Additionally, I would imagine some programs that opened earlier will still have spots to fill since some people will decline their offers in favor of other programs.

 

[smak26]

Just received Sub-I rotation at UTSW. It overlaps with Michigan and so I can only accept one of them. Any advice?

 

[strb_thndr]

Just received Sub-I rotation at UTSW. It overlaps with Michigan and so I can only accept one of them. Any advice?

Which month? I just got September but I’m trying to switch to August because it conflicts with San Antonio.

 

[smak26]

Sorry, September.

 

[strb_thndr]

Sorry, September.

Bummer! That would’ve been too easy haha

 

[megan1010]

Just received Sub-I rotation at UTSW. It overlaps with Michigan and so I can only accept one of them. Any advice?

Just curious but how many aways are you doing?

 

[smak26]

Just curious but how many aways are you doing?

Doing 3 , got 5.

 

[ham15]

Anybody heard from Baylor yet?

 

[megan1010]

At what point do you get nervous about not hearing back for aways? Applied last month but getting anxious, maybe I applied too top heavy.

 

[sardonicmedicine]

How soon does everyone recommend withdrawing apps on VSAS? After you’ve been initially accepted to your desired number of aways or after you’ve completed the post-decision process and gotten host confirmations from those places?

When withdrawing, should you send a courtesy email to the contact listed on VSAS? Has anyone in the past interviewed at places they’ve withdrawn from, been rejected from, or cancelled (due to scheduling, another program offer, etc.)?

 

[TB_13]

How soon does everyone recommend withdrawing apps on VSAS? After you’ve been initially accepted to your desired number of aways or after you’ve completed the post-decision process and gotten host confirmations from those places?

When withdrawing, should you send a courtesy email to the contact listed on VSAS? Has anyone in the past interviewed at places they’ve withdrawn from, been rejected from, or cancelled (due to scheduling, another program offer, etc.)?

I know someone who cancelled a rotation after accepting an offer, and still matched there. I don’t think withdrawing is a big deal at all, they understand that changes happen. A courtesy email won’t hurt though

 

[longislandbro]

Can we get confirmation from current PM&R residents (or attendings!) in this forum on whether cancelling an away rotation early (defined as > 2 months notice) does indeed blacklist you from getting an interview invite? Another way to word the question: has anyone gotten an interview invite from (or better yet matched at) a place they cancelled an away rotation?

Hey there,

Graduating PGY4 here. I will tell you that at our program (which by the way is not offered through VSAS, need to email our program coordinator), an away rotation will SIGNIFICANTLY improve your chances of matching (assuming you are stellar on your rotation). We give out interviews to virtually every student that rotates with us, so keep that in mind when applying for away rotations. We are also a small program, so we do not interview tons of applicants. I'd guess we interview 90 and maybe 36 of those are students who rotate with us. So pick the programs that you think you have a realistic shot at, and bust your butt on the rotation, we'll remember.

Also, I encourage you all to be persistent (but not annoying) when dealing with program coordinators. They get tons of emails from prospective applicants and I'm sure a couple fall through the cracks. Remember that there is a human on the other end of your email. It never hurts to send a followup email or pick up the phone if you are passionate about a program and feel that your email / rotation fell through the cracks.

As far as your question regarding being accepted to, and turning down an away rotation - I honestly don't think it'll matter. I looked at a number of applications this past year and I can't remember a scenario ever coming up where an applicant was turned down for an interview because they turned us down for an away rotation. There are frankly too many applicants to even consider who applied for, and turned you down for a rotation. If you're annoy our program coordinator then turn down the rotation, fall asleep in lectures during your rotation, or cancel at the last minute - the program coordinator will probably remember. If you get on her bad list, it's a death sentence for applying to our program. Think of her as the triage nurse, and you want to get triaged into the right group. Remember, she also wants to work with people who are proactive and polite.

Lastly, remember that PMR is a person-centered field. I know a number of you will be gung-ho for Shirley Ryan / Washington / Mayo etc (I did too), but remember that the other programs in major cities often offer a well rounded education that will teach you how to navigate complex social issues that you may not see at the major academic centers that screen out those patients. It'll serve you well in the long run.

 

[megan1010]

At what point do you get nervous about not hearing back for aways? Applied last month but getting anxious, maybe I applied too top heavy.

Bump bumpity bump bump bump...am I just being inpatient? lol

 

[smak26]

Bump bumpity bump bump bump...am I just being inpatient? lol

Hmm... I am not sure. I could be wrong, but I would think a majority of programs would have started giving their decisions by now. Why don't you contact some of the programs and see?

 

[megan1010]

Hmm... I am not sure. I could be wrong, but I would think a majority of programs would have started giving their decisions by now. Why don't you contact some of the programs and see?

The programs I applied to specifically say not to do that. I’ve heard people getting aways very late but it’s pretty stressful to just be waiting on them. I came across PM&R a bit late and am wondering if I just applied a bit late or if I applied too top heavy. Most people I talked to said just applying to 2 places would be sufficient though for one spot. Arghh!

 

[smak26]

The programs I applied to specifically say not to do that. I’ve heard people getting aways very late but it’s pretty stressful to just be waiting on them. I came across PM&R a bit late and am wondering if I just applied a bit late or if I applied too top heavy. Most people I talked to said just applying to 2 places would be sufficient though for one spot. Arghh!

True, there is a possibility of spots opening up after cancellations. I don't know where you applied, so I can't comment on top heavy. Based on your first post, you seem to have applied early April, which is not late at all and there were a few programs like Cincinnati which opened on May 1st.

As far as contacting programs go, I hope you get guidance from someone who had contacted a program and gotten a rotation.

Yes, applying to 2-3 places for 1 spot is enough if you apply early enough. I certainly applied to too many places and ended up withdrawing most of them.

Sorry, not much help I wish you the best of luck and hope you hear back from programs soon.

 

[j4pac]

The programs I applied to specifically say not to do that. I’ve heard people getting aways very late but it’s pretty stressful to just be waiting on them. I came across PM&R a bit late and am wondering if I just applied a bit late or if I applied too top heavy. Most people I talked to said just applying to 2 places would be sufficient though for one spot. Arghh!

If you don’t have an audition scheduled, it probably has something to do with your strategy. Tough to know if you were too top heavy without knowing your credentials and where you applied.

Most applicants who audition at my program go on more than one audition. And they are typically applicants who go on to match at good programs.

If one only applies to Shirley Ryan and Mayo, being anything less than a great applicant, statistically I don’t like the odds.

 

[TB_13]

Anyone hear back from Vanderbilt yet? I have 1 week to an accept an offer elsewhere, but would prefer Vandy

 

[Shawn Clancy]

I haven't heard back from Vandy and I submitted on April 1st. Anyone heard back from Mayo or Temple?

 

[ham15]

Does missing one day on an away rotation look bad? Obviously its better to be there every day but would it affect how you were perceived by faculty and residents?

 

[j4pac]

Does missing one day on an away rotation look bad? Obviously its better to be there every day but would it affect how you were perceived by faculty and residents?

That would very likely depend on the reason

 

[sardonicmedicine]

If it’s for an interview, can you ask to work weekends (or take call if in-house call) to make up the missed days?

 

[smak26]

If it’s for an interview, can you ask to work weekends (or take call if in-house call) to make up the missed days?

One of the programs where I am rotating says that time off should always be requested in advance and approval obtained by your supervisor or department."

 

[FingersCrossed22]

So far I have rotations scheduled with ECU Vidant, Carolinas, USF, and MSU. Excited to meet some of you over the next year!

 

[ham15]

Question about LOR for prelims. Most websites say a letter from Medicine chair is one of three required LOR for prelims but most of the residents I've talked to say they didn't have one and still got plenty of interviews. Anybody have any insight on this?

 

[girl.gone.medical]

The 2019-2020 PM&R Application and Interview Google Doc is up and running.

What's the link to this? I can't add to it from here

 

[Eurycea]

How did y'all determine how many aways to shoot for? Was it just a factor of how many you had "room" for in your fourth year schedule?