Official 2020 Rank Order Lists

[mistafab]

In the year of perfect vision, the future remains hazy.

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[docksan]

WIP, bro

 

[mistafab]

We in peril?

WIP, bro

 

[PsychApp777]

Rank in peace.

 

[docksan]

Work In Progress.

But yea this gon'b hard.

 

[Monocles]

Good luck everyone!

No matter where you end up, I wish each and every one of you happiness and good work/life balance in the next 3-4 years!

 

[HowAreYaNow]

A few more to go, and then the deliberation begins.

 

[Ailuene]

If anyone could possibly speak on really notable differences between BIDMC and CHA I would really appreciate it. Post-split, from my interview day, I felt like BI has gone with more of a community and therapy focus, which seem to be the territory that CHA traditionally is regarded as a leader in. As such, I am having a really difficult time figuring out which is ahead in this very tangled tie for me. For reference, my interests are in public psych and social determinants of health, therapy, academics, and perhaps medical leadership. Fellowship-wise I’m not sure yet, but I have a slight lean toward child (but possibly just because of more exposure here). Thanks!

 

[soporific]

If anyone could possibly speak on really notable differences between BIDMC and CHA I would really appreciate it. Post-split, from my interview day, I felt like BI has gone with more of a community and therapy focus, which seem to be the territory that CHA traditionally is regarded as a leader in. As such, I am having a really difficult time figuring out which is ahead in this very tangled tie for me. For reference, my interests are in public psych and social determinants of health, therapy, academics, and perhaps medical leadership. Fellowship-wise I’m not sure yet, but I have a slight lean toward child (but possibly just because of more exposure here). Thanks!

I think you're right that they both excel in community psychiatry and psychotherapy. Maybe the biggest difference is the type of institution. BI is a large academic institution with a stronger CL experience, and while the psychiatry department in particular has a strong community focus (with strong links to Mass Mental) the overall feel of the hospital might differ from CHA, which is a community hospital. They would both offer good research opportunities in social determinants of health/therapy (BI with Mass Mental and Harvard School of Public Health nearby, CHA because that's what their research focus is). And both are linked to good child fellowships. BI has a more front-loaded (and overall heavier) call schedule and CHA is more spread out. Both are really great programs that would prepare you well - so maybe it comes down to more nebulous things like how you felt about the program leadership, residents, and hospital environment.

 

[SourceOfDenial]

BI fits the mold of a more traditional academic residency, strong(or busy depending on how you look at it). The inpatient unit at BI leaves a lot to be desired facilities wise—not sure what CHA looks like.

I’d say that CHA still has an overall better therapy supervision component, and certainly more of a social justice mission.

Leadership and program direction team at both places is great.

TLDR; Go based on the feels.

 

[Sefuw]

While we’re on this topic, what’s the consensus on Brigham vs MGH/McLean? I like the flexibility that Brigham offers but I feel like the overall training might be better at MGH. Not too picky of a candidate, just looking for a program with a collegial vibe and decent therapy training.

 

[Ailuene]

I think you're right that they both excel in community psychiatry and psychotherapy. Maybe the biggest difference is the type of institution. BI is a large academic institution with a stronger CL experience, and while the psychiatry department in particular has a strong community focus (with strong links to Mass Mental) the overall feel of the hospital might differ from CHA, which is a community hospital. They would both offer good research opportunities in social determinants of health/therapy (BI with Mass Mental and Harvard School of Public Health nearby, CHA because that's what their research focus is). And both are linked to good child fellowships. BI has a more front-loaded (and overall heavier) call schedule and CHA is more spread out. Both are really great programs that would prepare you well - so maybe it comes down to more nebulous things like how you felt about the program leadership, residents, and hospital environment.

BI fits the mold of a more traditional academic residency, strong(or busy depending on how you look at it). The inpatient unit at BI leaves a lot to be desired facilities wise—not sure what CHA looks like.

I’d say that CHA still has an overall better therapy supervision component, and certainly more of a social justice mission.

Leadership and program direction team at both places is great.

TLDR; Go based on the feels.

Thanks for your thoughts! These are the reflections that I got as well, but since I'm not remotely from the area, I wanted to make sure my own idea of the two programs were representative. Sounds like I can't go wrong either way. Time to agonize over my feels for another two months in typical fashion.

 

[Flowerpower276]

Any thoughts on the NYP Columbia program? I'm looking for solid training but also don't want to be worked to death during residency.

 

[soporific]

While we’re on this topic, what’s the consensus on Brigham vs MGH/McLean? I like the flexibility that Brigham offers but I feel like the overall training might be better at MGH. Not too picky of a candidate, just looking for a program with a collegial vibe and decent therapy training.

BWH seemed to have better work-life balance and perhaps more laid back? MGH seemed to have nice, but more driven individuals who wanted (or were at least okay with) working harder. Overall clinical training seemed good at both, though more intense at MGH. Brigham definitely had more flexibility and time to pursue your interests, with MGH/Mclean only really having 4th year as elective time. Both seemed to have decent therapy training though McLean would have a richer environment and more options if therapy was something you wanted to pursue further.

 

[docksan]

Pretty much finalized mine. If I make any changes now I'll regret it.

 

[Coupd'Cat]

Pretty much finalized mine. If I make any changes now I'll regret it.

that's the spirit.

 

[Monocles]

If anyone could possibly speak on really notable differences between BIDMC and CHA I would really appreciate it. Post-split, from my interview day, I felt like BI has gone with more of a community and therapy focus, which seem to be the territory that CHA traditionally is regarded as a leader in. As such, I am having a really difficult time figuring out which is ahead in this very tangled tie for me. For reference, my interests are in public psych and social determinants of health, therapy, academics, and perhaps medical leadership. Fellowship-wise I’m not sure yet, but I have a slight lean toward child (but possibly just because of more exposure here). Thanks!

CHA might be a better fit for you just because of their social justice philosophy. They also had a very well regarded child fellowship so it never hurts to get some early exposure to their faculty.

From anecdotal evidence, CHA is by far the best work/life balance residency in the harvard system and have the happiest residents.

 

[Ailuene]

CHA might be a better fit for you just because of their social justice philosophy. They also had a very well regarded child fellowship so it never hurts to get some early exposure to their faculty.

From anecdotal evidence, CHA is by far the best work/life balance residency in the harvard system and have the happiest residents.

Thanks Monocles! That's where I'm leaning now after some thought, specifically because of their social justice philosophy. I appreciate the seconded validation though.

 

[mistafab]

Three separate program populations have essentially cropped up over the course of my interviews:

group 1. This would be excellent, I would enjoy it here.
group 2. I could probably be happy here
group 3. I would survive.

Any advice for organizing your group 1 programs? I’d like to send one program a “you are my number one” email in a few weeks but am having trouble doing so. My top three are especially this way - it feels like splitting hairs. I only applied to places I wanted to live, so location is less of a factor.

 

[docksan]

I used a ranking website I found on reddit that basically allows you to compare two places and at the end sets up a rudimentary list for you.

I ran that a couple of times, compared it to my running list over the last couple of months, then hashed out the whys of the difficult choices.

If the programs are all excellent, then you really do have to decide which one you prefer to go to first.

 

[itsallgood123]

I used a ranking website I found on reddit that basically allows you to compare two places and at the end sets up a rudimentary list for you.

I ran that a couple of times, compared it to my running list over the last couple of months, then hashed out the whys of the difficult choices.

If the programs are all excellent, then you really do have to decide which one you prefer to go to first.

Can you share the link to that reddit site?

 

[docksan]

It's called the ranking engine:

Ranking Engine

rankingengine.pubmeeple.com

 

[mistafab]

One more interview to go!!

I have one “2nd look” set up for a top program contender (they are paying). Hope to get some clarity on my order soon.

Goals for my 2nd look include 1) are these residents actually cool and 2) could this city be my potential forever home?

 

[topanga92UVA]

Hi,

I would immensely appreciate any insight and opinions on the following Psychiatry programs:

- Baystate Medical Center/UMMS (Springfield, MA)
- Berkshire Medical Center (Pittsfield, MA)
- Harvard South Shore/Brockton VA (Brockton, MA)
- Wright Center for GME (Scranton, PA)
- St. Elizabeth's Hospital/DBH (Washington, DC)
- Zucker/Northwell Mather (Port Jefferson, NY)
- Nassau University Medical Center (East Meadow, NY)
- Creedmoor Psychiatric Center (Queens Village, NY)
- Lincoln Medical Center (Bronx, NY)
- Rutgers NJMS (Newark, NJ)
- New Bridge Medical Center (Paramus, NJ)
- SUNY Downstate HSC (Brooklyn, NY)
- AtlantiCare Regional Medical Center (Pomona, NJ)

Thank you!!!

 

[PsychROLBurner]

Created a burner so as not to dox myself.

I am looking for input on UNC vs Duke. My interests are research and academia. Location is a wash. I am having trouble discriminating between them. Based on my brief interview experiences, one has a slight advantage, but it is really hard to pull the trigger on one vs the other based on a dinner and an interview day. Any input from people in the know or even based off of reputation would be appreciated.

 

[mistafab]

I found myself liking Duke more and more post-interview. The “fit” and culture was top-knotch for me. I have no doubt, also, that I could get involved with research day one if I wanted to (which I do).

I did not interview at UNC so I won’t comment there.

Created a burner so as not to dox myself.

I am looking for input on UNC vs Duke. My interests are research and academia. Location is a wash. I am having trouble discriminating between them. Based on my brief interview experiences, one has a slight advantage, but it is really hard to pull the trigger on one vs the other based on a dinner and an interview day. Any input from people in the know or even based off of reputation would be appreciated.

 

[FlowRate]

Created a burner so as not to dox myself.

I am looking for input on UNC vs Duke. My interests are research and academia. Location is a wash. I am having trouble discriminating between them. Based on my brief interview experiences, one has a slight advantage, but it is really hard to pull the trigger on one vs the other based on a dinner and an interview day. Any input from people in the know or even based off of reputation would be appreciated.

The lore on this forum a few years ago was that Duke was potentially the hardest working psych program in the country. I personally sought out above-average workload programs thinking that more clinical exposure is better, but there is a point of diminishing returns.

Hopefully someone else will have a more up-to-date opinion on this matter.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

For being the final three days before ranking deadlines, this group is amazingly quiet...

 

[docksan]

We're writing our eulogies.

 

[smadge]

Ok here's one for you - I have some interest in research especially precision medicine and severe mental illness. Geographical interests involve ending up in the southwest or at least more west than east.

1. Utah (research track)
2. UW-Seattle (research track)
3. Stanford
4. Mayo
5. Michigan
6. UW- Madison
7. Colorado
8. Iowa

 

[mistafab]

Having a hard time deciding order between Duke and Wash U. Both are awesome programs and I’d love to live there. Vibe from residents was excellent.

 

[sunshower]

To round out my top 5, I'm having trouble with Temple vs Jackson/Miami. My top 4 are pretty reach schools, so I have a feeling I will end up at one of these. I liked the residents and vibe at both. I like both cities but think I would prefer Philly. If I'm being honest, I think I enjoyed Temple more but my only reservation is they primarily only see inner city, underserved patients and heavy emphasis on addictions.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

How is your Spanish? I don't know much about Jackson/Miami, but I know Miami in general. On the other hand, if the undeserved patients aren't your thing, maybe it is a draw.

 

[nebula007]

Any thoughts on HSS vs BIDMC? I am worried that living in Boston would be financially difficult and my partner and I really want to buy a home.

edit: Also, does anyone know what family health insurance typically costs during residency? I can't find much about the cost from any program unless they cover it fully.

 

[sunshower]

How is your Spanish? I don't know much about Jackson/Miami, but I know Miami in general. On the other hand, if the undeserved patients aren't your thing, maybe it is a draw.

My Spanish is passable for conversations but not so much for medical Spanish. Do you now more about the patient population seen at Miami? I know a large portion are Spanish speaking, but are they primarily underserved? I just want to see a good mix of patients during residency honestly

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

70% if Miami is Hispanic. 54% is Cuban. I don't know what portion of this is monolingual Spanish speaking, but I do know Cuban's spread across all socio-economic levels. Some very wealthy plantation owners got off the Island ahead of the revolution and have done quite well. Of course this was a long time ago and I suspect those families speak English for the most part. It might be hard to find work in little Havana without speaking Spanish, but both cities are large and metropolitan enough. Maybe you should ask yourself about what is better or worse snow or humidity?

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Back to Snow vs Humidity. Lechon asado vs Philly cheese steak....

 

[eternelle]

Back to Snow vs Humidity. Lechon asado vs Philly cheese steak....

Cuban coffee should be listed as a perk too!

 

[nebula007]

BIDMC is obviously a great program, and I think HSS is too. Fill disclose I am an HSS resident. I enjoyed rotating at BIDMC, and they seemed to have a good culture.

I may be biased but I love our culture at HSS. I wouldn't trade places with a BI resident even if you paid me to do it (which is not a knock on BI, just a reflection of how much I love my program).

HSS also pays much more than BIDMC last I looked, and VA benefits are very good. My individual insurance is $52/month, and I've paid $21 total out of pocket in two years, a resident with similar insurance paid $100 total over the course of entire pregnancy and delivery, so seems like very good coverage.

I live in Boston, and find I'm doing alright financially. Some residents at HSS live outside Boston, many live in. A couple live in Cambridge. I assume all or nearly all BI residents live in Boston.

If you have a specific question about HSS I'd be happy to answer it.

Thank you so much! Wow, that healthcare coverage is amazing. I definitely could feel the love for the program when I visited HSS and the residents seemed really well trained and go on to do some awesome stuff. In PGY4 do most people do electives in house or are they at affiliated hospitals?

 

[ridethecliche]

Good luck to everyone!

I just wanted to jump in and say that the match is a rollercoaster. I was very unhappy when I opened my envelope because I ranked pretty much at the bottom of my list. Turns out the program I'm at was really stoked to have me and I've had a good enough balance in my life that the location hasn't been as big of an issue as I had thought. Location, for me, was the reason I ranked this particular program towards the bottom of the list in spite of having had a great vibe there.

After the feels faded on match day, I realized I was pretty lucky to not be at a few of the places I had ranked above where I ended up because a lot of things about work and culture came out about other programs that had been swept under the rug a bit. At the end of the day, you get to know only one place and every place has its pros and cons. I'm way more happy intern year than I was led to believe was even possible.

Good luck!

 

[ridethecliche]

Many of you are dealing with your match day celebrations being called off due to the miller lite virus.

I'm sorry that you won't be able to spend time celebrating with your family and classmates, but remember that where you match is personal and now you get to choose how you spend that time and who you choose to spend it with.

I hope you get to spend it with those you love and those that love you.

Be well.

 

[FatherPsychiatry]

Good luck to everyone!

I just wanted to jump in and say that the match is a rollercoaster. I was very unhappy when I opened my envelope because I ranked pretty much at the bottom of my list. Turns out the program I'm at was really stoked to have me and I've had a good enough balance in my life that the location hasn't been as big of an issue as I had thought. Location, for me, was the reason I ranked this particular program towards the bottom of the list in spite of having had a great vibe there.

After the feels faded on match day, I realized I was pretty lucky to not be at a few of the places I had ranked above where I ended up because a lot of things about work and culture came out about other programs that had been swept under the rug a bit. At the end of the day, you get to know only one place and every place has its pros and cons. I'm way more happy intern year than I was led to believe was even possible.

Good luck!

Same! I thought I was a shoo-in at my #2 with my feel on interview day, the post-interview love letters, multiple alumni from my med school currently there and graduated with a few on faculty. Heart sank on match day when I matched to a program lower on my list.

I love my program and can't see myself anywhere else.

 

[superfrogpoke]

Many of you are dealing with your match day celebrations being called off due to the miller lite virus.

I'm sorry that you won't be able to spend time celebrating with your family and classmates, but remember that where you match is personal and now you get to choose how you spend that time and who you choose to spend it with.

I hope you get to spend it with those you love and those that love you.

Be well.

Thanks for this reminder. I've been feeling really, really down about the lack of celebrations and the probably cancellation of most of my fun post-graduation plans. But we've been working four years for this. I'm going to try to remember that, and to remember how wonderful it is to at least be with my spouse on the big day.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

Focus on "I matched". You already made a list that only ranked programs that you are willing to train at so where on your list you match, although important, pails in comparison to not matching. You need radical acceptance once you open that envelope because lamenting doesn't change anything and moving on will be the ultimate solution. Besides, your ability to know which program is best for you was mostly a guess other than geographic considerations. Go with the flow and avoid railing against things out of your control. This thing is already over, you just don't know the outcome yet. Most people fair very well. Best of luck everyone.

Program directors have their own inverse experience in this process.
"I'm really excited we got him, but I didn't think we would have to get her."
(a year later) "Hay, she is a lot better than he is. Who knew?"

We delude ourselves into thinking we control this process, but the longer I do this the more I am sure that both sides don't know squat.
May the match gods shine favorably on all of you and hopefully me too.

 

[ridethecliche]

To add to the above...

It is okay to be upset and wallow if you're disappointed. Just work through that and from then on out you should be stoked to be where you are. I've talked to a few co-residents regarding where I ranked my program with the caveat that my life was elsewhere for a decade and I loved everything about it but the location. Still lots of pros here though.

I def agree with MDT re: we can see the cards we're dealt but it's not over till the river comes you know. It takes more time and info for the full picture to emerge than is available with just the interview and result of match day.