Official: Cwru Class Of 2007

Applying to Med School? Get In Or Your Money Back
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indiangirl

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Just wondering if anyone has made the decision yet?
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Originally posted by xaelia
Two words: Cleveland Clinic
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That's what I thought when I applied... But then when I interviewed I found there was only a loose relationship and that most if not all rotations are done at University Hospital. I guess you could choose to do elective rotations at Cleveland Clinic, but then again you could choose to do them anywhere.
 
Case is a great med school, no doubt. Although, correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the Cleveland Clinic affiliation thing was a separate kind of thing (enrolls first class next year, of physician-researchers, called the Cleveland Clinic College of Medicine of Case Western Reserve University).

However, you were probably just talking about having the Cleveland Clinic in the general vicinity, in which case I guess the upcoming affiliation might help the "regular case meds" get into residencies at CCF?

I, however, think the downside of Case is Cleveland. Case is great, Cleveland is not so hot. This is coming from a Case undergrad. Let me know if you want to know all the good and bad things about living here.
 
Hm, I got the impression during my interview day that the relationship had been loose in the past, but was going to be tightening and evolving over the next few years with the new Cleveland Clinic medical school - their diplomas will be from CWRU with a notation on them, after all.

I could be wrong. There's a few CWRU folks who browse these forums, perhaps they'll pick this thread out of the noise and make a comment or two.
 
Indiangirl et. al-
I'll be there! See you in August...
ketchupgirl
:)
 
Originally posted by Neuronix
That's what I thought when I applied... But then when I interviewed I found there was only a loose relationship and that most if not all rotations are done at University Hospital. I guess you could choose to do elective rotations at Cleveland Clinic, but then again you could choose to do them anywhere.
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All of the clerkship rotations are available at UH. All of them are avaiilable at MetroHealth (county hospital). Most of them are available at the VA and a growing number are available at the Cleveland Clinic (surgery, neuroscience, and OB/GYN right now). More will probably come with the establishment of the affiliation. You do not do "all rotations" at UH.

I think the biggest selling point of CWRU is the electives in the curriculum. Every school has electives in the 3rd/4th years, but few schools have electives to the level CWRU does in the first two. Not many other people I met did CPR on someone while flying over the Cleveland shoreline as a *first* year med student (elective EMMD 6002).

I went to CWRU as an undergrad as well. The people that bitch about CWRU undergrad (seriously, more than just lighthearted joking) are just BORING people. Cleveland has more than enough to do with your time off from med school.

mike
 
I hope those of you waiting get in!

Good luck.
 
I'm still trying to get off of the post-interveiw "we will review your application later in the cycle" list too. I would SOOOO love to go there. The Clinic not withsdanding, there are some amazing docs at UH too.

Aren't you guys freaked out about the cost?? I mean $35 grand a year in tuition alone?? Fark, that's alot of money. Especially when Ohio has so many good state schools...

I just want that acceptance, then I'll worry about the other stuff.
 
Yeah, it is a lot of money...but like you said (Zoobaby), I'm trying to deal with that part.
 
There is a good chance that I will be there next year. I think the curriculum is better than any other school I've been to. P/F the first two years would make it totally stress free, and the students still do above average on the boards. Last year, 143 out of 145 passed on the first try and the other 2 passed within 30 days. I also like the thought of being out of class by noon or 1 everyday and, like mikecwru said, the idea of the electives sounds pretty cool. You guys can look on their website and see a list of all the different electives available and all of the concentrations you can pick if you want.

The only down side for me is location. I'm from Detroit and I drove down to Case that morning and came back after my interview so I didn't spend very much time in Cleveland, and what I saw didn't look that nice. What do you guys think of Cleveland? As long as it is relatively safe, that's all that matters to me.
 
Originally posted by mikecwru
You do not do "all rotations" at UH.
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On this I stand corrected.

My point was that while the Cleveland Clinic is in Cleveland, its ties with CWRU are pretty weak. I was surprised to find out when I interviewed that the prestigious clinic was not where I would be spending my time, but rather in other healthcare systems. Even on my interviews, I really had to draw out that it was unusual to do PhD work with Clinic investigators AND that most rotations were not done there. Not that I'm saying CWRU is purposely misleading applicants, just that I got the wrong impression. Also, I don't want to sound like a snob. it's just that when I compare schools like Northwestern and Case Western, I think I'd rather leave the Clinic out of the discussion.

Hey mike, since I have forgotten, could you give me a quick run-down on how much classtime is required in the first two years? Is it more of a traditional cirriculum? I sort of remember it being sort of high classroom time with a more traditional cirriculum, but I want to make sure I have it straight. Argh, too many interviews.
 
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MWS99, where in Detroit?

I love Cleveland. There are many very cool and safe areas close to Case. There are plenty of not-so-safe areas as well, but there is no reason to live in or go to those places. Cleveland is a city with city problems, but also plenty of good stuff for whatever you're into.

I think Cleveland has a pretty similar feel to Detroit. I lived in Ann Arbor for a while, and was raised in Cleveland. Any specific questions? Cleveland Hts (where I live now and will stay if I go to Case) is kindof like Grosse Point...
 
Originally posted by Zoobaby
MWS99, where in Detroit?

I love Cleveland. There are many very cool and safe areas close to Case. There are plenty of not-so-safe areas as well, but there is no reason to live in or go to those places. Cleveland is a city with city problems, but also plenty of good stuff for whatever you're into.

I think Cleveland has a pretty similar feel to Detroit. I lived in Ann Arbor for a while, and was raised in Cleveland. Any specific questions? Cleveland Hts (where I live now and will stay if I go to Case) is kindof like Grosse Point...
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Hey, I'm from Lake Orion, it's about 25 miles north of downtown. I don't like Detroit so I think I will turn down my Wayne State aceptance and go to Case, which is much more expensive and has a much better reputation. Is Cleveland Heights that area up the hill within a 10 minute walk of the medical center? I drove around there a little bit and there seemed to be a lot of students walking around.
 
Originally posted by mws99
Hey, I'm from Lake Orion, it's about 25 miles north of downtown. I don't like Detroit so I think I will turn down my Wayne State aceptance and go to Case, which is much more expensive and has a much better reputation. Is Cleveland Heights that area up the hill within a 10 minute walk of the medical center? I drove around there a little bit and there seemed to be a lot of students walking around.
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Yeup, Cleveland Hts. is up the hill. It's actually a suburb of Cleveland with about 50K people. There are lots of distinct little neighborhoods within Cleve. Hts. but that one corner of it IS about a 10 minute walk from Case.

I really love it. In fact, If I don't get into Case and/or can't afford to go there I'll go to one of the state schools, which is fine, but I'll really miss living where I do.

Little Italy is a pretty cool neighborhood too. That's actually IN Cleveland (at the bottom of the hill) within spitting distance of the school.
 
Originally posted by mws99
Is Cleveland Heights that area up the hill within a 10 minute walk of the medical center? I drove around there a little bit and there seemed to be a lot of students walking around.
Click to expand...

Hey everybody -

I am about 90% sure that I will be at CWRU next year, so I thought I'd throw my name into the thread...

I have lived in Cleveland for 10 years. I finished up my master's in Biomedical Engineering last year from CWRU, and I still live in Cleveland Heights, which is indeed less than a 10 minute walk up the hill from the Case campus. My wife and I are now looking for houses in the Cleveland Heights/University Heights area.

CWRU's affiliation with the Clinic is indeed getting stronger (and as a result, OSU's affiliation with the Clinic is getting weaker). I suspect that by the time 3rd year rolls around, the Clinic will be just another option for the students, along with Metro, the VA, and University Hospital.

I have watched two of my best friends from high school go through the CWRU medical school, and both have loved it. Although it is very very expensive, I will probably choose CWRU over my other choice (a non-Ohio state school at half the price) because the systems-based curriculum at CWRU is so much nicer than a more old-fashioned approach.

I am happy to answer questions and offer my biased opinions of Cleveland if anyone wants to hear them!

LL
 
Hey everyone, there's a good chance that I'll be at Case this fall (so ketchupgirl, that should answer your question you posted to me in the Financial Aid forum :) ).

I don't really know why Cleveland gets such a bad rap, I've been there a couple of times and thought it was great. And I'm coming from Denver, one of the best cities in the country :cool: .

I also got the impression when I was there that the affiliation with Cleveland Clinic was only going to get much stronger in the coming years, as some people have posted. The curriculum rocks, P/F the first two years--can't beat it.

I'm still waiting to make a final decision though because of the tuition. Holy schnikes, it's expensive! I'm in at my state school too so I'll have to compare the financial aid packages.

Do any of you know how many people Case invites to apply for their scholarships?
 
Originally posted by TroutBum
Do any of you know how many people Case invites to apply for their scholarships?
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The letter said they invite 60 people and give out 21. I think 2 are for minorities only though. Last year, the average stats were 3.8 and 36 for the winners.
 
So they've already sent out the scholarship invitations? I guess this means that if I didn't get an invitation I should stop wondering if I might be invited. Doh!


Oh well... I'm going to med school either way, so it's all good.

My two choices right now are Case and Emory. I'm leaning toward Case, but I'm having a hard time getting over the sticker shock. I guess Emory's no real bargain either...
 
Originally posted by Neuronix
On this I stand corrected.

My point was that while the Cleveland Clinic is in Cleveland, its ties with CWRU are pretty weak. I was surprised to find out when I interviewed that the prestigious clinic was not where I would be spending my time, but rather in other healthcare systems. Even on my interviews, I really had to draw out that it was unusual to do PhD work with Clinic investigators AND that most rotations were not done there. Not that I'm saying CWRU is purposely misleading applicants, just that I got the wrong impression. Also, I don't want to sound like a snob. it's just that when I compare schools like Northwestern and Case Western, I think I'd rather leave the Clinic out of the discussion.

Hey mike, since I have forgotten, could you give me a quick run-down on how much classtime is required in the first two years? Is it more of a traditional cirriculum? I sort of remember it being sort of high classroom time with a more traditional cirriculum, but I want to make sure I have it straight. Argh, too many interviews.
Click to expand...

I don't know about PhD work, but I have a hunch that with the CCF affiliation, CWRU as a whole will be opened up to clerkships because the OSU tie is being broken. Even with the Cleveland Clinic COM, there will not be enough students to fill up all the potential clerkship spots they could make. You can already do three of the core clerkships there, and they will only increase.

Now, aside from all of this, I think CCF is a crappy place to be a resident let alone a med student. The place is very fellow driven. I think you'd get to see neat stuff, but not do alot. I also dislike UH. My favorite hospital has always been Metro, both for the quality of the teaching and the atmosphere. But that's just me.

I'll give you the old cliche again: go where you'll be happy. Don't weigh trivial factors because in 1-2 years, it will be meaingless. But I can't harp on you guys too much, I guess I got excited at med schools for "stupid" reasons, too.

CWRU has an integrated organ systems approach for most classes. ie, you do cardio and you do anatomy, histology, physiology, etc. In second year, you rotate through them again with an emphasis on pathology and some pharmacoloy (they don't integrate the pharmacology as well... it's mostly taught at the end of 2nd year). You go for about 4-5 hrs a day, no more Saturdays. Now, this is enough to "get by," but not enough to do well. You're still going to have to study a decent amount at home.

mike
 
Originally posted by KBCoch
So they've already sent out the scholarship invitations? I guess this means that if I didn't get an invitation I should stop wondering if I might be invited. Doh!
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Unfortunately, yes. They told me at the interview (and in subsequent emails) that if you were competitive for a scholarship, they would have included an invitation in your acceptance letter.

I didn't get one either...

LL
 
The closer ties with the Cleveland Clinic are not necessarily going to be a boon to your undergraduate medical education. I haven't heard too many great things about the students who have completed their rotations at CCF (with the exception of Ob/Gyn, and the only reason the students like it is because it's easy), which, as someone noted previously, is a fellow-driven environment. The more important thing to note about a CWRUSOM education is the breadth of clinical settings -- VA, public hospital (MetroHealth), tertiary care (UH, CCF).

There is no reason why you should be surprised that CCF/CWRU are located in the same city but do not have close ties. Many cities around the country are consolidating into two-system markets. For Cleveland, you can read more about it here:
http://www.hschange.org/CONTENT/286/
http://www.hschange.org/CONTENT/98/

The closer links between CWRU/CCF are a byproduct of the CCF Lerner College of Medicine. The CCF-LCOM@CWRU students will probably get 1.5 years of pre-clinical teaching from CWRU (since CCF doesn't have the capacity to staff that many lecturers) and will also receive their degrees from CWRU. (If CCF wanted to award its own degrees, it would have had to obtain accreditation from the state -- an unlikely possibility, since the state of Ohio has medical schools coming out of its wazzoo. Hence they chose the easier route of partnering with CWRU.) It's possible that some of CCF's prestige will rub off onto CWRU students, but it's not likely. The more probable CWRU premium will be as a result of the CCF's NIH research dollars being attributed to CWRU's total. That alone will boost CWRU's US News and World Report ranking. (A one-year ten-spot leap in the rankings -- if that doesn't persuade the world of the bogusness of the USNWR rankings, I don't know what will.)

-AT.
 
21/60, eh? That's pretty tough.

Am I mistaken or didn't Case say that it's possible to do some clinical work (probably fourth year electives, I'm guessing?) at Henry Ford in Detroit also?
 
CWRU used to offer an option for students to do their entire third (and fourth) year at Henry Ford Health System (Detroit) through the Primary Care Track, but that portion of the program has been scrapped. I am under the impression that it is still possible to arrange to complete Y3/Y4 at HFHS but you have to arrange for it yourself somehow. HFHS is still a teaching affiliate of CWRU.

-AT.
 
Originally posted by mikecwru
I'll give you the old cliche again: go where you'll be happy. Don't weigh trivial factors because in 1-2 years, it will be meaingless. But I can't harp on you guys too much, I guess I got excited at med schools for "stupid" reasons, too.
Click to expand...

I really appreciate your advice. I just don't know where I'll be happy. I'm being asked to choose where I will spend the next eight years of my life, and it's very difficult for me to decide. Everyone I talk to that's in a program now is super-happy where they are at, so I really can't base any decisions on that. Oh well, at least I have a choice, and no matter where I go I will do the best with what I am given.

I remember now why CWRU had long classtimes to me. They expect you to take graduate school classes (I believe in lieu of electives... There goes that advantage) during medical school. They also require the medical school professors to grade you for MSTP (not P/F), for their graduate requirements, and so I'm a little hesitant about that, even though all the current students assured me that it is not an issue.
 
The people that bitch about CWRU undergrad (seriously, more than just lighthearted joking) are just BORING people. Cleveland has more than enough to do with your time off from med school.
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LOL, i hope i'm not one of the boring people...but then again, I might be. I think the key is that you need some way of getting around Cleveland. Maybe mike was one of the people lucky enough to have a car during his undergrad years. I am not, and go would have to rely on public transportation if i wanted to get out of campus. and unfortunately, car or no car, there's not much on case campus to do. rite aid was the highlight of euclid, and that closed a year or two ago. there's a handful of restaurants (maybe 2 or 3) that are affordable and within walking distance and lots of Subways (3). The public transport is not so hot (yes, the rapid takes you to tower city, but even at tower city there's only so much to do) and the buses stop running into campus at a pretty early hour. Coventry is ok, and so is Little Italy, but then again one does get bored after a while if these are the ONLY things within walking distance.

However, these things are probably more important to an undergrad than a med student anyway, since you'll most likely have a car (and if you weren't thinking about getting a car, get one. You'll need it). Commuter parking can be a little annoying though. Hopefully Case will be improving that soon.

I guess I'm hoping to go somewhere where downtown is still alive after 5:30, you can still see movies after 10:30 pm and the weather gets above freezing sooner than April. :)

On a side note though, Metrohealth rocks!! I worked there for a summer and they have great people there.
 
Originally posted by Louweezel
LOL, i hope i'm not one of the boring people...but then again, I might be. I think the key is that you need some way of getting around Cleveland. Maybe mike was one of the people lucky enough to pretty early hour. [SNIP] Coventry is ok, and so is Little Italy, but then again one does get bored after a while if these are the ONLY things within walking distance.

However, these things are probably more important to an undergrad than a med student anyway, since you'll most likely have a car (and if you weren't thinking about getting a car, get one. You'll need it). Commuter parking can be a little annoying though. Hopefully Case will be improving that soon.

I guess I'm hoping to go somewhere where downtown is still alive after 5:30, you can still see movies after 10:30 pm and the weather gets above freezing sooner than April. :)

On a side note though, Metrohealth rocks!! I worked there for a summer and they have great people there.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was fortunate enough to have a $500 AMC encore through college. But even if you don't have a car, remember, this is friggin' college. The guy down the hall with a car? You're new best friend! hehehe

The parking situation is significantly better for med students vs undergrads although still pricey by Cleveland (but not other city) standards.

That's a valid problem with Cleveland. My biggest complaint has always been the weather. A week in Hawaii will make you see the light, even if you were born in Cleveland. Also, everything non-alcohol related closes at 6-7, which sucks. The speed limits are also lower than most of the states I've been to. But every city has its pros and cons.... rush hour isn't that bad and the city doesn't smell like urine or look like a warzone.

I was involved with a fraternity, so that was a big part of my social life while an undergrad there.

mike
 
Hey All,
Looks like I'm gonna join y'all at Case next year, thats if I don't get into UChicago, but then, the chances of that are pretty high. Its not as if I don't like the school though, I absolutely loved it when I visited. The biggest downside is the price, but if I can secure one of those scholarships, I should be ok. Anyways, its pretty cool to meet future classmates over the net...
 
Rescuing this thread from the obscurity of the second page...

How are you guys doing on financial aid stuff? I plan to finish my FAFSA by this weekend, and according to CWRU, once they have everything they can make their offer pretty quickly.

LL
 
Originally posted by DoubleL
Rescuing this thread from the obscurity of the second page...

How are you guys doing on financial aid stuff? I plan to finish my FAFSA by this weekend, and according to CWRU, once they have everything they can make their offer pretty quickly.

LL
Click to expand...

I just submitted my FAFSA yesterday. I'm working on the CWRU forms right now.I'm going to try and finish everything this week.
 
Do we have to do the CSS thing on collegeboard.com for Case?
 
I'll be going to Case... unless one of the schools that I like better accepts me. I love the Case campus.
 
I'm pretty much done with the FAFSA. It's ready to go out, but I've been waiting for days to get a couple of figures from my parent's accountant. :rolleyes:

If you haven't done Need Access yet, good luck. It sucks. I started a thread to complain about it in the fin aid forum.
 
Has anyone filled out the budget section on the CWRU fin. aid application (the yellow one) that asks for lists of expenses and resources? I'm not sure how they want us to predict the amount our parents/spouses will contribute - is it a certain percentage of their earnings, or just a prediction, or ???

Thanks!
 
Originally posted by J-Brow
Has anyone filled out the budget section on the CWRU fin. aid application (the yellow one) that asks for lists of expenses and resources? I'm not sure how they want us to predict the amount our parents/spouses will contribute - is it a certain percentage of their earnings, or just a prediction, or ???

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I think I will just leave the resources part blank. I think they will decide how much we are expected to contribute and how much our parents are expected to contribute by using FAFSA/Need Access.
 
Yeah, that makes sense... I think I'll do the same. Thanks, mws99!
 
I am considering CWRU School of Dentistry. The program is great. What I am wondering about is the city of Cleveland and the area.

Several of you seem to be from Cleveland or attended Case undergrad. Please do tell the good, bad and the ugly on Cleveland and Case.

P.S. By the way, i've also been accepted at UPitt. Anone who knows Pittsburgh and can compare it with Cleveland/ Case would be great, too! Thanks!
 
Hi MidWestDental-

I grew up in Cleveland Heights, about 10 minutes from Case. I haven't really lived in Cleveland since I started college in 1994 but my parents are still there, and I'm planning to move back to start at CWRU med this fall. I also have lots of relatives in Pittsburgh and my parents grew up there, so I can tell you my impressions of Pittsburgh.

If you PM me with specific questions, I'd be happy to give you the lowdown-

ketchupgirl
 
Originally posted by MidwestDental
Several of you seem to be from Cleveland or attended Case undergrad. Please do tell the good, bad and the ugly on Cleveland and Case.
Click to expand...

Ok, all you other Clevelanders, help me out and correct me where I'm wrong here...

Cleveland is geographically split right down the middle by the Cuyahoga river. Thus you have an East side and West side, and both have very distinct flavors to them. People also tend to be loyal to their "side" of the city, thinking it better than the other side.

I'm bound to rile people up with this comment, but here goes... The West side of Cleveland is generally perceived as a more blue-collar, working-class area, while the East side is more affluent. Of course that is an overgeneralization and there are good and bad areas on both sides.

The CWRU campus is located at the far eastern edge of the city of Cleveland itself, right on the border with several suburbs, in an area called University Circle. Within about two miles, you have the CWRU campus, the Cleveland Institute of Art, the Museum of Art, the Natural History Museum, the VA, University Hospitals and the Cleveland Clinic (among many other things!).

Many of the eastern suburbs are "Heights" because they are literally up the hill from Cleveland - hence Cleveland Heights, University Heights, Shaker Heights, etc.

I think it is safe to say that most CWRU students who do not live on campus live in Cleveland Heights (or in Little Italy, which is next to the CWRU campus and in Cleveland proper). The area of Cleveland Heights that is adjacent to the CWRU campus is full of apartments and houses for rent, and the area has a pretty young "feel" to it - lots of students and young professionals.

Within about a fifteen minute walk (or <5 minute drive) is an area called Coventry in Cleveland Heights, which is sort of a trendy, hippie-ish area that has a few bars, coffee shops, art-house movie theater, a small performance theater, and a couple of burrito places and bookstores.

As for other things to do in Cleveland, don't listen to those who say the place is dead - it isn't. There is an active Playhouse, as well as a Playhouse Square, which attracts all kinds of national touring shows. The near West side is chock full of trendy bars and night clubs. And of course the Flats, which is the few blocks that are on the banks of the Cuyahoga river itself, is a also full of bars, night clubs, restaurants, and a comedy club.

There are also tons of restaurants throughout Cleveland, many in little ethnic neighborhoods with food that is great.

Personally, I think that Cleveland is a great area. There is a large, well-educated group of students and young professionals in the area, there is plenty to do, and the cost of living just can't be beat.

(I've left things out, and I'm sure that others can fill in the good [and bad])...

LL
 
I will be going to Case next year! Yeah, class of 2007. I'll probably be staying at the Waldorf Towers for my first year. (I hope to find some cool buddies and rent a sweet victorian house in little italy or university circle after that.)

Anyway, my future SDN classmates, when you see the 6'4" girl at orientation, that's me, you should say hi!

Also, who else (besides me) is seriously considering the masters of anatomy that you can get at CWRU without adding any years. (Hey, who needs weekends & evenings!) I think it'll really help with getting surgical residencies....

Jade~
 
When you saw atheir financial aid presentation, did they mention how much institutional aid they give out? What is the avg student indebtedness after graduating?
 
Did you miss the financial aid presentation??

I think the figure they gave is something like 104,000 (and this might include undergrad loans too).

Someone can correct me if i am wrong.
 
geldrop-
if you've been accepted, you should have gotten a big financial aid packet recently-it's pretty helpful. i'm not sure about indebtedness but indiangirl's figure sounds about right.

in the packet they described, to some extent, how they distribute $$; some of this is also from the fin aid presentation, though i saw it in september so if i'm wrong, please feel free to correct me, anyone!

for whatever your total need (let's say 50K), they expect you to take out a 27K unit loan (stafford unsub + sub, or whatever). then they factor in student contribution- they expect you to have and cough up $1500. they they factor in parent contribution based on what they think your parents could afford, let's say 10K. if your parents don't want to give you dime one, or you don't have $1500, i think you can either increase the amount of stafford you borrow or use another loan. so, let's say after the unit loan and your personal/family contribution, case sees that you need 12,500. they will give you a combo of cwru loans and grants to cover that. if they determine that you're really needy, you will get a higher percentage of grants to loans. someone who looks less needy on paper might get a package weighted more towards cwru loans.

guys, am i right about this?
geldrop, their finaid people are pretty nice if you want to ask them more questions.

ketchupgirl
 
Yeah, that sounds about right. Also, I believe the tuition is fixed for four years, and that is not true at too many schools. Can anyone confirm that?
 
Yup! (it's fixed for all four years...)
 
what about third/fourth years when you go to class the whole year around? i assume they raise tuition then?
 
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