Ohio State vs. Duke for premed

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If OSU Honors offered you a full scholarship while Duke would cost your family around 30,000, where would you go? Also, consider that money not spend on undergraduate studies will be spent on med school.
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Its hard to say, but I would avoid any honors programs--they just make life harder without helping you get into medical school. You can get into a top medical school from Duke or Ohio State, so the decision is up to you.
 
i'm in no position to evaluate your financial situation. some people can better afford a private education than others. however, for most non-Rockafellers, a free ride is something difficult to pass up.

Ohio State is a reputable school, even if it isn't at the caliber that Duke is, and you would not be doing yourself a disservice by attending it. It is more important that you stand out at and do well at the school you chose to attend, and it may in fact be easier for you to do that at OSU than at Duke. I think - contrary to what others here believe - that your undergrad institution does matter when it comes time for grad school apps, but your grades / test scores / ECs are substantially more important.

Also, OSU may be a better experience. I'm an Ivy student myself, and my undergrad experience is nothing like that of my premed friends who chose to go to my state's school. While it seems that I spend more time on my classes than they do (don't flame me please, I'm not making this up or trying to be cocky), I think they have more time for personal growth in other areas that are probably more important in the long run anyway.
 
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Ohio State by a mile. What matters is how you establish yourself in whichever environment you choose. So, pick where you think you would make a better application (while the name of the school is almost negligible). Whether an Honors program is good or not depends on the school, and at the Big U State school I go to, Decicco is incorrect insofar as the Program is a similar amount of work, but the students from the program have a noticeable advantage in applying to graduate school, because the Honors program at my school is nationally respected (the program directors are buddy buddy with many big name programs and they give out propaganda to other grad programs).
 
I would take OSU's free ride and not look back. I did. (Well, not from OSU, but same idea.)

And I disagree with the advice to avoid Honors classes. When we're talking about General Biology with 300 students or Honors General Biology with 20, take the Honors every time. Professors pretty much have a discrete quantum of "care about" for each course they teach; trust me, you'd rather their quanta be split 1/20 instead of 1/300. It's nice to be able to talk to your professor if the need arises.
 
schismal said:
I would take OSU's free ride and not look back. I did. (Well, not from OSU, but same idea.)

And I disagree with the advice to avoid Honors classes. When we're talking about General Biology with 300 students or Honors General Biology with 20, take the Honors every time. Professors pretty much have a discrete quantum of "care about" for each course they teach; trust me, you'd rather their quanta be split 1/20 instead of 1/300. It's nice to be able to talk to your professor if the need arises.
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I go to OSU, and I've taken both honors classes and regular classes. I agree with the above.

Good luck!:luck:
 
jkjkjk said:
If OSU Honors offered you a full scholarship while Duke would cost your family around 30,000, where would you go? Also, consider that money not spend on undergraduate studies will be spent on med school.
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I initially chose my undergrad based on a full ride there, but afterwards, I felt that it was the wrong decision, which is why I ended up transferring... Go wherever you think you can succeed and do the best... Undergrad is all about fit, and you should go where you feel most comfortable. Good luck making your decision!:luck:
 
If you go to OSU I have the following suggestion. If you have the chance to do honors do it! If you are in honors you get to schedule before everyone but athletes. Also honors classes are not that hard because they curve them to ~B+ compared to the normal curve to a C.

I would suggest you go to OSU (ok I am biased) because there is anything you want to do there. However, if you do honors don't do honors housing, it is super boring and quiet.
 
OSU. It would be absolutely stupid to blow 120k on Duke. You can get an excellent educational experience at any state school, especially one with the rep of OSU (even though you would be a tool for being a buckeye :p ) Med schools are not particularily interested in where you go to undergrad as long as you do well there. I have had an amazing experience at Iowa State, which is not a top-ranked school is still a great place nonetheless.

It sounds like you are trying to justify your desire to go to Duke. Don't give in. You will have more fun and be just as successful at OSU.
 
Take my advice with a grain of salt cause I put more emphasis on name recognition than the average person, but I would go to to DUKE for the single reason that not everybody can say they went to DUKE. It's got the general public WOW factor that Ohio State just doesn't have :( and trust me after 10+ years working in the corporate world as a hiring manager the general public does think like that.

But like I said take my advice with a grain of salt because I was in your situation several years ago, UVA vs. PENN, and choose UVA for the free ride. I wouldn't say that I regret it, but there are many days that I think about it even though UVA is top 20-25. Had I went to PENN I can't say that I would be playing the what-if game as much.

At the end of the day just go to wherever you think you will do well at. Keep in mind that if you do do well at DUKE you'll have a better shot at the Harvards and Hopkins type med schools, if thats important to you, but by the same token if you don't do well you could eliminate your shot at any med school.
 
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In response to the above poster, no one will care about your undergrad institution after you get into medical school. Your MD will be the degree on display in your office for the rest of your life, not your BS. Choosing Duke would give him four years of name recognition, but no more.
 
Go to Ohio State and take every Honor's class you can. You will still end up at the same medical school, but you have at bit less debt in the end.
 
I had this exact same predicament, I went with the full ride, but NOT because of the scholarship. I looked at the school because of the scholarship, but they sold me on the benefits. I went for a couple reasons:

1) Not competitive. I really didn't like the idea of having to try and beat people for an A, I much prefer the system where everyone can get an A if they all work hard and meet the Professors expectations. I couldn't imagine not helping a friend out of fear of him getting the A and me not...
2) Honors College (Arizona State's) was a huge benefit. Going to a party school as big as ASU, there are so many opportunities to do new and innovative stuff, because nobody else is (too busy partying lol). I had offers to work at the Biodesign, TGEN, etc solely on the basis of being an Honors Student (the early class sign up doesn't hurt either!). If you are interested in Business, having Phoenix right next door doesn't hurt, because its the southwest hubs for a lot of banks and other corps. Lots of programs, lots of funding, lots of fun.
3) Diversity. So many people from so many places, I wouldn't be nearly as strong an applicant if I hadn't gone to ASU. I got into dance, etc, because of meeting so many interesting people.

I admit sometimes I wish I had gone to a more prestigious school (I was national merit, and I assume you are too), but I think its more out of personal vanity than because of not getting a good education. OSU and ASU and these other schools can get you that, if you're willing to put in the time. What I will admit is that on a lot of my east coast interviews, I have been swamped with Private school people and then me, the only public school guy. I prefer to believe this is just because most of the talent goes to the elite schools (I mean, Harvards 75th percentile has a 35 ACT score after all..), rather than students are getting interviews JUST because they went to a prestigious school. I think it is in a medical schools best interest to get good students rather than students who went to famous schools. After all, poor students hurt their reputation, where as good students improve it. Saying that 3/4 of your class went to private schools probably doesn't help them as much as being able to say that everyone Matched, and that everyone passed their Step 1 with a score a standard deviation above the mean. What my dad has told me is this: Patients will be impressed by your fancy degrees, doctors know where the good doctors come from.
 
OSU. Save the money. The majority of your pre-med education will be the same wherever you go. They cover the same material from the same textbooks at whichever university you go to. There may be some better research opportunities at Duke but there have to be tons of student organizations, clubs, etc. at OSU. Additionally, it is a state university so you get to meet real people...not just rich suburban kids. These people will be your patients and you gain a lot more as a person in this type of environment. Congrats on both acceptances and good luck.
 
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I think the bottom line is that you can be happy and succeed at either place, and that most people don't regret going either direction. One thing that I would question though is the true extent that you make connections. I know most of my "connections" are just relationships with professors, and I don't know if Professor to student connections are really as valuable as peer to peer connections made in Grad/Med school. Sure, I guess more of your friends are going to end up as famous physicians at Duke, but I know my dad's connections were mainly made in med school. Regardless, I definitely think that med school connections will prove to more valuable.
 
To say that honors programs are a waste of time is just so, so wrong. Honors courses, opportunities within the program (example, I got a substantial amount of money from my honors program to stay on campus over the summer to continue my research project), close ties with GOOD professors (and therefore, good letters), etc. etc.

Honors courses may be more work, but you can handle it. You are being offered a chance to join the program for a reason, right?

OSU. Plus I'm a diehard Illini basketball fan so I therefore hate every team in the ACC, all the more reason.

*disclaimer* where you go to college is one of the most important choices in your life, the "eliteness" of said institution notwithstanding. Make the choice yourself, not through SDN.
 
Take the full ride and go to OSU. You might come out having learned more at Duke because its a more difficult program but you also won't have as high a GPA. (and you'll definitely learn all you need to know at OSU)
 
amph119 said:
To say that honors programs are a waste of time is just so, so wrong.
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Yea, I probably spoke to definitively. Just make sure that you have enough time to get good ECs and that your grades remain high. I know pre-meds in the honors program who didnt meet these goals--just make sure youre not one of them.
 
jkjkjk said:
If OSU Honors offered you a full scholarship while Duke would cost your family around 30,000, where would you go? Also, consider that money not spend on undergraduate studies will be spent on med school.
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OSU:
1. Free ride is HUGE b/c you will eventually have med school debt, which is quickly rising. Is cost of living included (room/board)?
2. An Honors program is a good thing - will help you be better prepared for med school and the MCAT.
3. You will have a ton of opportunities on campus for non-academic stuff as well as research.
4. Do you like it there? You should like a place if you're going to go there.
5. If you got a free ride to OSU Honors program and were accepted to Duke, you're likely to do well at OSU and if you don't like it would probably make a very competitive transfer candidate if you really wanted to leave.

Duke:
1. $120000 would barely cover tuition, so remember there's room/board to pay for, too.
2. I went there for med school and loved the campus and think North Carolina is a great state... but is it for you?
3. You will get a great education/preparation.
4. The undergrad's affiliation with the medical school and research on campus will give you some great opportunities as a premed as well as thoughtful consideration by the medical school admissions committee if you do well.
5. Grade inflation is absent from the basic science course as best as I could tell - you will have to really earn those grades.
6. Duke is not a huge public school, but it is not that small either.

Medical reimbursement is changing - doctors will not go bankrupt, but if you want to go into primary care, you should consider how having $400,000 debt after both undergrad and medical school might pressure your choice of residency programs and career paths. If you are completely set on primary care, you should only choose Duke if you are very sure that it is better for you than OSU, because that amount of debt will be a factor.
 
If you get perks from OSU's honors program, go for it! By perks I mean smaller class sizes, priority enrollment, parking privileges, etc...

Hey, you might take a year or 2 off before applying to med schools (trust me, you'll never know if you will or will not until you get towards the end of your undergrad career)... and having to start paying off those loans would not be fun at all :(

You can't deny the resources Duke has though... and of course the basketball team (although I think the team is overrated haha)
 
Also, what if Case Western Reserve would cost around $10,000. Would you still go to OSU.
 
jkjkjk said:
Also, what if Case Western Reserve would cost around $10,000. Would you still go to OSU.
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Look, if you do not wanna go to OSU, don't go. See, if you are miserable at a school, you will not do well, and then all your med school dreams die. It depends on familial situations... if you do not care that you will have a considerable amount of Debt, then go ahead and go to the other school...I give you my blessing:D:thumbup:
 
Perks of OSU's Honors Program

1. Smaller Classes (My largest honor's class was sixty students and that was Honors Biology, smallest class was ten students)
2. Earlier Scheduling (That means you can enroll for the History of Rock and Roll before the upperclassmen)
3. Access to Research Grants (which everyone in Honors seem to receive)
4. Ivy-level learning (The Honors Calculus book was the same one being used at MIT)
5. Knowledgeable Professors (Organic Chemistry was taught by Dr. Paquette and Physical Biochemistry was taught by Dr. Chan
6. Access to quiet on-campus housing (in addition to the south campus housing)
7. Graduation Honors and Distinctions

In addition, Ohio State has a new aquatic center and fitness center (http://recsports.osu.edu/locations_rpac.asp). Also, you will have access to the newly completed Ohio Union and Main Library

Then again, maybe you would be happier in Durham. I hope this has been a bit informative.
 
Thank you very much Vadd, that may just be the dealbreaker for me (couple more months to think about it though). Number 4 and 5 sound very appealing to me and im definetly gonna look into honors more in depth.
 
If you want the Duke name, it'd be much more impressive to have it on your medical school transcript than undergraduate. I think OSU is a great place to attend until you get that chance (if you so choose to attend a big name school). Consider as well that your parents are the ones paying for undergraduate and they'll be dealing with the consequences of your decision as well.
 
Have you already gotten into Duke? Don't they tell regular decision folks in April/May?

Anyway, my advice to you is to pick where you really want to go and where you feel you'll fit in best. I wanted to go to Duke since I was 9 years old, so when it came time for college there was no where else I wanted to go (and thanks to early decision, it was the only school I applied to). It's a great place, and I got to experience a school that was great academically and athletically, which made for lots of school spirit.

That being said, I'm sure you'd get a good education at OSU as well (not to mention the school spirit), especially if you're in the honors program. If you were set on going into something like business or finance, I'd say go to Duke because name means a lot in those fields. But if you don't change your mind and you pursue medical school, I'd say save the money and go to OSU. Still, the most important thing is picking the school you feel fits you best. best of luck.
 
MrBurns10 said:
Have you already gotten into Duke? Don't they tell regular decision folks in April/May?

Anyway, my advice to you is to pick where you really want to go and where you feel you'll fit in best. I wanted to go to Duke since I was 9 years old, so when it came time for college there was no where else I wanted to go (and thanks to early decision, it was the only school I applied to). It's a great place, and I got to experience a school that was great academically and athletically, which made for lots of school spirit.

That being said, I'm sure you'd get a good education at OSU as well (not to mention the school spirit), especially if you're in the honors program. If you were set on going into something like business or finance, I'd say go to Duke because name means a lot in those fields. But if you don't change your mind and you pursue medical school, I'd say save the money and go to OSU. Still, the most important thing is picking the school you feel fits you best. best of luck.
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Yeah, but Duke has better weather and a better football team. Thank god we do not have to watch Ohio State get undressed again in the BCS title game.
 
MrBurns10 said:
Have you already gotten into Duke? Don't they tell regular decision folks in April/May?
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I was thinking the same thing too. Unless the OP deferred his or her admissions from the previous year, there's no way this situation is possible. Duke utilizes Early Decision... so if you were accepted, you would have to go for sure... but based on my recollection of the admissions process, it's still early for ED results to be released.
 
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searun said:
Yeah, but Duke has ... a better football team.
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Also to the OP, if you are recieving a full ride to Ohio State, that means you will be receiving approximately $1000 in CASH after room and board is covered for your first year every 3 months for the first year (or however long you decide to stay on-campus), and $4000 in CASH every 3 months for every year outside of the dorms.

Just FYI.
 
phospho said:
do you even watch football?:laugh:
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Absolutely, I am a fanatic. I was referring to the number of football players who matriculate at medical school. Duke does much better than Ohio State at turning football players into doctors. Now, lets talk basketball and Coach K.
 
Duke football is getting better! We've won more games this season than the last four combined. (sure we won't play a bowl game but we are on the upswing)
 
Um, yeah, I'm confused. Is this hypothetical? Because the earliest notification you could conceivably receive comes at about December 15 and that's only if you applied Early Decision. (Regular applicant decisions don't come out until spring.) And from what I understand, if you were conceivably applying ED to Duke, you would be legally obligated to attend that university, and none other (so really, you shouldn't even be in this conundrum then).

My advice to you is to stop hypothesizing about your future, be patient, wait for actual admissions and financial notifications, and then make a decision.
 
searun said:
Absolutely, I am a fanatic. I was referring to the number of football players who matriculate at medical school. Duke does much better than Ohio State at turning football players into doctors. Now, lets talk basketball and Coach K.
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Wow I think that's a pretty irrelevant item to evaluate a football team by :p. The purpose of football isn't to get people into med school! Go Bucks!

Anyways I go to OSU, I'm in the honors program, and I have had classes with both Leo Paquette and Michael Chan. Those two were awesome and LeoPa (kinda like the JoePa of O-chem) was an excellent teacher before he retired from teaching right after he finished my honors ochem class! There are excellent opportunities to be had at OSU including research positions with world class scientists. You can get into any med school you want with an education at Ohio State provided you put the work into it. If you were going to get into Harvard or UCSF after your undergrad at Duke, you will still get into Harvard or UCSF after you spend 4 years and 120k less at OSU so why no go the cheaper route?!
 
Snake Doctor said:
If you get perks from OSU's honors program, go for it! By perks I mean smaller class sizes, priority enrollment, parking privileges, etc...

Hey, you might take a year or 2 off before applying to med schools (trust me, you'll never know if you will or will not until you get towards the end of your undergrad career)... and having to start paying off those loans would not be fun at all :(

You can't deny the resources Duke has though... and of course the basketball team (although I think the team is overrated haha)
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Haha no parking privileges for honors people here, but other than that I agree it is worth doing honors.
 
suizyme09 said:
Wow I think that's a pretty irrelevant item to evaluate a football team by :p. The purpose of football isn't to get people into med school! Go Bucks!

Anyways I go to OSU, I'm in the honors program, and I have had classes with both Leo Paquette and Michael Chan. Those two were awesome and LeoPa (kinda like the JoePa of O-chem) was an excellent teacher before he retired from teaching right after he finished my honors ochem class! There are excellent opportunities to be had at OSU including research positions with world class scientists. You can get into any med school you want with an education at Ohio State provided you put the work into it. If you were going to get into Harvard or UCSF after your undergrad at Duke, you will still get into Harvard or UCSF after you spend 4 years and 120k less at OSU so why no go the cheaper route?!
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Oh Hay! :D I heard you had a fun weekend!
 
Vadd0 said:
Oh Hay! :D I heard you had a fun weekend!
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Oh no...not you....I KNOW WHO YOU ARE! haha yeah the weekend was fun...what's this "Caucasian" you have listed on your MDAPPS? you are so much more diverse than this :p
 
schismal said:
In response to the above poster, no one will care about your undergrad institution after you get into medical school. Your MD will be the degree on display in your office for the rest of your life, not your BS. Choosing Duke would give him four years of name recognition, but no more.
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I think you need to re-read my post, I said that I place more emphasis on name recognition than others. I didn't imply or mean to imply that one or the other would get him further in the long run in his career.

And I disagree with you that nobody will care about where you went to school, people will care. I can assure you that a GPA of 3.7+ at Duke will get him further than a gpa of 3.7+ at OSU if he is aiming for top-tier med schools. And although you can argue that even the med school you attend doesn't matter all that much, it does to some folks. Personally, if I'd worked my ass off to get accepted to a top school and ended up at the school where all my friends, that didn't work quite as hard, ended up I'd be bitter. But then again like I said I place more of an emphasis on that kind of thing, I am super competitive and like to compete with the best of the best, that's just me - everybody's different.
 
nabeel76 said:
But then again like I said I place more of an emphasis on that kind of thing, I am super competitive and like to compete with the best of the best, that's just me - everybody's different.
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If you're lucky, one day you'll understand that competing against yourself is the only worthwhile course of action.
 
nabeel76 said:
I think you need to re-read my post, I said that I place more emphasis on name recognition than others. I didn't imply or mean to imply that one or the other would get him further in the long run in his career.

And I disagree with you that nobody will care about where you went to school, people will care. I can assure you that a GPA of 3.7+ at Duke will get him further than a gpa of 3.7+ at OSU if he is aiming for top-tier med schools. And although you can argue that even the med school you attend doesn't matter all that much, it does to some folks. Personally, if I'd worked my ass off to get accepted to a top school and ended up at the school where all my friends, that didn't work quite as hard, ended up I'd be bitter. But then again like I said I place more of an emphasis on that kind of thing, I am super competitive and like to compete with the best of the best, that's just me - everybody's different.
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I feel like Ohio State has the opportunities to be super-competitive for top-tier medical schools. Trust me taking all honors classes will be challenging. I feel like college is what you make of it more than where you go. Honestly, for a pre-med I would tell you OSU has everything you could want. I easily found research, clinical experience, shadowing, and volunteering here. Also since Ohio State is the largest university in the U.S. it has any club or activity you could want. If you look at the rankings every year OSU moves up a couple places and while it may not have the name as Duke people respect and know it.
 
nabeel76 said:
I think you need to re-read my post, I said that I place more emphasis on name recognition than others. I didn't imply or mean to imply that one or the other would get him further in the long run in his career.

And I disagree with you that nobody will care about where you went to school, people will care. I can assure you that a GPA of 3.7+ at Duke will get him further than a gpa of 3.7+ at OSU if he is aiming for top-tier med schools. And although you can argue that even the med school you attend doesn't matter all that much, it does to some folks. Personally, if I'd worked my ass off to get accepted to a top school and ended up at the school where all my friends, that didn't work quite as hard, ended up I'd be bitter. But then again like I said I place more of an emphasis on that kind of thing, I am super competitive and like to compete with the best of the best, that's just me - everybody's different.
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People will only care where you went to med school in the long run, not your undergrad. Period. Only the institution awarding the highest degree matters, or else we'd all be sitting here arguing about the relative quality of our middle schools.

To avoid turning this into another private vs. public debate, I'll try to keep my response constrained. Guess what, man... I worked my ass off too. And so did all of my friends who are applying to top-tier schools from this lowly state U. College rewards the effort you invest, no matter what name signs your diploma. Hell, my good friend last year was accepted to Columbia, Stanford, Baylor, UCSF, etc. and we're not talking about a 37/4.0. She just made awesome connections with the professors, which paid dividends in awards, research, and ECs. There's something to be said for being the big fish in the little pond. Maybe your friends didn't wind up at the "top-tier" schools because they didn't put in the effort... which would be independent of the UVA name, yes?

So please, stow the conceit. Plenty of the "best of the best" choose public education, knowing that they'll later pursue a graduate or professional degree that will bury them in debt. Your self-diagnosed super-competitive pathology is one I hope to avoid in my classes next Fall. If you can only use others as your measuring stick for personal and intellectual growth, well...
 
nabeel76 said:
I am super competitive and like to compete with the best of the best, that's just me - everybody's different.
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I don't know you, and frankly, I can't care less if you listen to my advice or not. However, if you stay this way, you will be miserable someday. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow; but you will be miserable eventually.

The only person you need to be competing with is yourself.

Again, good luck with whatever you choose. You can't go wrong with either school.:luck:
 
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