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Ohio State vs. University of Cincinnati comparisons

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by xaelia, Oct 29, 2002.

  1. xaelia

    xaelia neenlet
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    Hopefully this thread won't devolve into insipid school-bashing, but I was curious about the opinions of folks who have visited both Ohio State and Cincinnati.

    I've interviewed at Ohio State, and have something of a legacy working in my favor, but I've also been invited to Cincinnati - and, this being a perfect world, I'd love to go. However, flying into Cincinnati is $540, flying into Dayton is $200 and, naturally, renting a car would be a trick at my age. I'd love to hear justifications one way or the other regarding cancelling a visit to Cincinnati supposing an acceptance at Ohio State.

    Thanks!
     
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  3. Zoobaby

    Zoobaby Monkey Wrench
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    I've heard tell of the PBL track being cancelled at O-State starting next year. Too bad I didn't hear that until AFTER I drooled all over it in my essays. That may change something for you...

    I've also heard a few people complain about the block system at Cinci. Sounds like the structure in the first two years may make life more miserable than necessary.

    These are only things that I've heard, however, I have no firsthand knowlege of this stuff.
     
  4. bella_dottoressa

    bella_dottoressa make it happen
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    To verify, the PBL track IS being cancelled at OSU. OSU has some plusses - great campus, great people, great facilities! Go Bucks! :D
     
  5. xaelia

    xaelia neenlet
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    The PBL track and the lecture track have been combined at Ohio State to generate a hybrid similar to most other schools that feature PBL as part of their curriculum. I also raved about the PBL in the 3-Pathway in my essays and was pretty darn surprised when they presented something completely different. Seems like an improvement.
     
  6. DoubleDoctor

    DoubleDoctor Ceder Dog's Daddy
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    With that difference in airline prices, I would fly into Dayton and take a shuttle to Cincy as it is only about a 40-45 min drive. I always fly out of Dayton because it is only a fraction of the cost of flying out of CVG and since it is a smaller airport you are hassled less and get through security much faster. I can't give an impartial opinion between OSU and UC because UC was my first choice and I work at the College of Medicine but it is an awesome school. The students and faculty are very supportive and the facilities are very nice with some great research opportunities.
     
  7. marakah2

    marakah2 Member
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    i would say go to cinci. who knows but you what you are/aren't looking for. even if you pay 500 for a ticket, just think that that cost is only a drop in the bucket by the time you're completely done.
     
  8. Amy

    Amy Animal Lover
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    Come to Cinci!! The integrated curriculum is a GOOD thing, in my opinion... it makes learning things easier. And as marakah said, the cost of coming to the interview is small in the grand scheme of things. OSU and Cinci are very comparable... it's worth checking both out to see which you like better. Some people choose OSU over UC, and vice versa... you shouldn't automatically eliminate UC just becuase you liked OSU (especially since you haven't been accepted at OSU yet). Good luck! :D
     
  9. Green912

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    Although not very glamorous look into taking a grayhound bus from Dayton to Cincy. It's sure to be very cheap and couldn't be more then a 1-1.5 hour trip.
     
  10. perrum365

    perrum365 Rebel Scum
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    i am very interested in this OSU vs. UC thread. I'm in-state and accepted at UC. Haven't heard anything from OSU.

    Some observations... discuss amoungst yourselves... recognize that on some (most? ;) ) of these points i am talking out of my a$$ and would love to hear some genuine, insider opinions

    1. Both are excellent schools. Have the same ranking in US News, which is based mostly on gpa, mcat, and research $$$. in 2001, Cincy got 125k in NIH grants, OSU got 100k. OSU's mcat was 31, Cincy's 30. Cincy's faculty to student ratio is like 1.7, OSU's is .8 (granted OSU has 205 in the class, whereas cincy has like 160)

    aside: OSU is making a big push to improve the prestige of thier school. (not that cincy isn't or anything!) the university has decided to invest everything they've got in the medschool and the fisher college of business. hence, the medschool has $$$ to spend, and they are spending it on going out and getting bada$$ researchers and others at the top of their fields to come to OSU. Hence, those researchers bring their research grants and $$$ with them, which improves OSU's rankings. also, as I understand the 2002 entering med school class's avg. mcat was a point higher than the 2001 class, so that is going up too.

    2. PBL is gone. let's not discuss that anymore, thank you. its a non-issue.

    3. Students at OSU are more competitive, but they like it that way (higher gunner %). Students at UC are very friendly, relaxed, and non-competitive, and seem to party harder.

    4. OSU is changing thier curriculum this year, and a lot of it seems thrown together and half-a$$ed. The students this year are sort of guinea pigs, and the jury is out on how well it works. Cincy's curriculum is much more seemless, which is great. And cincy has better facilities, it seems also.

    5. Cincy is not in the best area of town. It is scary at night there. Cincy and Columbus are different cities. I don't want to get into that right now. that's a long discussion too. :)

    have a nice day and thanks for listening! :)
     
  11. perrum365

    perrum365 Rebel Scum
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    a little postscript:

    i think that you just need to choose a school that fits you well. one where you feel that the students and teachers and overall culture mesh well with your style of learning. at the root of it all, they all teach the same thing and you will get out of it what you put into it.

    more discussion points:
    i've met some parents of students at UC. they always say, "well, jenny was also accepted at Ohio State..." and its like, who cares! why do you need to say that? does it make them better to have that association? is the implication that most people at UC couldn't get into OSU?

    i've met lots of students at OSU and they all say, "wow, UC is great, but i chose to go here"

    also, it seems that OSU interviews out of state people first. real bada$$es to pad their GPA and MCAT stats. then later they call the in state people to fill up the class. (this is my theory as to why i haven't gotten a call)

    its like there is this competition between the medschools in the state to get the best people they can get. if you go to wright st or MCO, they ask you "will you go here if you get accepted to cincy or OSU?" and most people say no. and then between OSU and cincy OSU has the upper hand. OSU is cocky because they can be. and it pisses the adcom at UC off. UC doesn't understand why in-state people choose OSU over UC, because, honestly, i think UC is a better teaching school. i just think people choose OSU because they like the idea of "Ohio State" and football saturdays and such. when you tell people back home "jr. goes to med school at OSU" everyone knows about OSU and likes them or its more socially acceptable or something

    thanks for letting me rant some more! ha! :)
     
  12. chem01

    chem01 Senior Member
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    Growing up in a small town in Ohio, I totally feel ya on that one!
     
  13. womansurg

    womansurg it's a hard life...
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    Well, OSU is pass/fail and has been for many years. You don't even know where you stand in the class unless you get the standard deviation and calculate it out for yourself. There is no class ranking.
    Honestly, it is such a huge class (>200 people) that ALL kinds of folks are represented there. I was very nontraditional, and I found lots of classmates who were into everything BUT being a gunner.
    Another perspective is that OSU is innovative, willing to look at and test out new approaches in medical teaching. Consisently high board scores indicate that they are staying on track. There are alot of different learning styles - the administration seems especially sensitive to this fact at OSU.
    True. It's great having nearly unlimited research opportunities and financial support. My research helped me stand out in the applicant pool when I applied for residencies.

    That's my take on OSU. UC is a great school too - I have friends who were very happy with their experiences there.

    Regards!
    -ws
     
  14. perrum365

    perrum365 Rebel Scum
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    thanks ws! good points. much appreciated! :)
     
  15. Pinki

    Pinki Sassy Member
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    My mother-in-law lives in Cincinnati. That may be the ultimate influence on my decision, should I have one!
     
  16. zer0el

    zer0el Sports Junkie
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    this is off topic, but i was wondering what Ohio residents thought of CWRU. i was fortunate enough to get in and am seriously considering going there. any plusses and minuses would be great. thanks.
     
  17. Dreamin

    Dreamin Senior Member
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    I've lived in OH my whole life and I have always heard great things about the medical school at CWRU. One of my good friends is an MSII there and absolutely loves it...she said that the professors are very helpful & the student are very happy and help each other out. The research that they have going on there is amazing considering the massive amounts of funding that they get.

    I think the school is one of the best in the country...I didn't apply though because I would rather not spend 30,000 a year to stay in state when I could go to many other great schools within the state for half the cost.
     
  18. Doctor Octopus

    Doctor Octopus Hospitalist
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    advantages: p/f, great curriculum, great hospitals, great ranking

    disadvantages: cost, you may not like the weather


    Being a Clevelander, it's my number one choice. The only thing that could pull me away would be an incredible aid package somewhere else. (That's assuming I get into Case. Big assumption)
     
  19. WSUreds

    WSUreds Senior Member
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    I agree with Amy that OSU and UC are very very comparable. There are many things that attracted me to attend UC over OSU and other schools.

    First and foremost, I was born and raised in Cincinnati and my family is very close, so it was a naturally an easy choice at first, but after an investigation, it became the best choice for ME.

    1) UC has an integrative curriculum (blocks) where all the classes cover the same system during the same block. This really helps, trust me to be studying stuff that relates to each other is great.

    2) Non-competetive atmosphere..........we make study guides for tests and send them to the entire class. Not so many gunners, but there are some.

    3) UC is trying to recruit the best students, faculty, and researchers. Its called the Millenium Plan. The plan is to double the amount of research dollars and researchers at the college in the year 2006. I don't have any figures or stats in front of me, but they have garnered many donations, private and state funded. They have opened a new Genomics Research Institute this year. Also, they are refurbishing the old MSB building and building a new med school attached to it.

    4)UC is affliated with Cincinnati Children's, one of the best children's hospital in the nation, top five. It also has one of the best pediatric residencies too.

    5)I am a first year here, so I haven't experienced everything here. But I have already met a great physician who is going to help get some research experience. It was so easy and it is available for everyone here that wants to do it.


    Its really subjuective though, UC vs. OSU, you should choose the school that best fits you. I know people here that chose UC over OSU and I have friends at OSU that chose it over UC.
     
  20. tedstriker

    tedstriker wicked retahhded
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    Meaning you're going to stay far away from there as possible? :laugh:
     
  21. TysonCook

    TysonCook Senior Member
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    I think that OHSU and Cinci are both great schools. The one turn off that I had for OHSU was that the class size was so large and then having to deal w/3 pathways. It just seemed a bit complicated.

    The major thing that I didn't like about Cinci was that the building was older (but inside is refurbished) but...... They are starting this year on building a brand new med school from the ground up and as WSUreds said they are actively trying to make Cincinnati one of the best med centers in the U.S. I do know that UC has a new dean and everyone a lot of new $ is coming in (we just got $30mil from the NIH).

    I personally love the integrated block schedule. Basically you aren't studying the ass in one class, while taking a test on the thumb in another. You have a whole week of tests (no class), so you also have a week of studying time with no distraction.

    As far as Case goes I didn't have an interview there, but several of my classmates declined acceptences to come to Cincinnati since the cost difference was so huge ($20,000/yr) and the schools aren't that different. If you are out-of-state you can gain in-state after one year, so you still end up saving a ton of money.

    Hope this helps.

    ps- we do party :D and everyone is really really really laid back.
     
  22. Resident Alien

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    CWRU is different from Cincy (just one of the differences is cwru is strictly p/f [the first 2 yrs] whereas cincy is not).
    Only cwru negative is $, but they have very good scholarship support and also good financial aid.
    I remember trying to pick between the 3 last year, I cant recall my whole thought process, but you know the end result :). And i absolutely love it.
     
  23. TysonCook

    TysonCook Senior Member
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    You are 100% correct Resident Alien, they are different.

    I just mean that in the end you will have an MD from a medical school in Ohio. All 3 are "ranked" in the top 50 (for what that's worth), but at Ohio State/Cincinnati you are going to pay a hell of a lot less than at Case.
    Honestly, why spend the extra $60,000+ just to go to Case, when Ohio State and Cinci are passing USMLE's with the same numbers?

    Realistically, if you ask a physician about where they went to medical school and if it really made a difference in residency selection (other than a "top 5" med school) they would say no. Board scores, grades (yes, Cinci is H/HP/P/F, and it sucks), recommendations, and AOA matter most. Name of school really is secondary.

    (I don't pretend to be an expert, my brother is applying for residency right now, this is his advice)
     
  24. Resident Alien

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    I agree. For me, it was equally expensive to go to Case and OSU. I had comparable packages, plus i chose to live with family here. With the finances equal, I felt Case was better.

    As you notice, choosing a school has a lot to do with how you feel about it. People choose schools for various reasons.
     
  25. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Member
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    Tyson, it's obvious you are proud to be at Cinci, and that is fabulous. I have three very good friends there who are third years. However, I don't agree with your comments about Case. In fact, I wonder how much you really know about Case. Anyway, I would think that for most people, tuition is just one piece of the puzzle in choosing a school. As far as residency goes, one way to judge that is to compare match lists.
     
  26. TysonCook

    TysonCook Senior Member
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    Art, Don't get me wrong, Case is a kick ass school with a crapload of money, faculty, and prestige, not to mention wonderful scores (i think the USMLE ave. was around 228 last year) rankings etc. etc..

    But at the student budget of around $50k+ it really ends up being a huge sum of money. Compare that to the instate budgets of Cinci at around $30k and the savings are pretty huge (esp. if you figure in interest for 4+ years).

    (Being proud of Cinci, I could really care less about UC. I had 6 choices and I chose between them by picking "top 50" schools, and then I went with the cheapest).

    Case Western is the better school (that goes without saying) something like 10 Nobel laureates, billions in research $, and the Clinic. But I do not think that it is the better value.

    As for match lists, they are not reflective of the quality of the school. They show what the class is interested in, and are relatively subjective.

    FOR ME bottom line was what do I want and how much am I willing to pay for it? It is not a question about the "better medical school", it is a question about what school will get you what you want.
     
  27. Oallostavros

    Oallostavros Member
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    Hey everyone,

    Just wonderin if anyone could talk a little bit more about the cinci weeklong testing format. It actually does seem like a pretty good idea, but some more student opinions about that would be great.

    Also, I remember from the interview that cincinnati stacks up their lectures so that you learn the same systems at the same time ( a big plus), but when I interviewed at OSU, I don't remember them talking much about how they organize their lecutures. Does anyone know how OSU organizes their curriculum?

    Also, what's the big difference b/n what CWRU calls their "systems based approach" and Cinci's lecture layout?
     
  28. Funshine0123

    Funshine0123 Member
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    For what it's worth, here's my opinion on what I felt that I observed when visiting these schools. OSU, while I loved it on paper, just didn't do it for me at the visit. They have an integrated program where they try to combine a little bit of lecture, discussion, and PBL case scenarios. If you're a person who likes the ISP (independent study) I have heard many of the med students there rave about it. Unfortunately, I need a little bit of hand-holding.
    As far as UC went, it actually reminded me a cheaper, scaled-down version of Case. There are little details like the grading is a little bit different, but the curriculum seems more comparable to Case than anywhere else. UC does not require a lot of Case's features (for instance the program where they pair you with a patient your first two years) BUT if you are interested they promote offering it as an elective - "all you have to do is ask" The other thing I really liked at UC was their patient simulator - they have a room devoted to materials you can use to finetune your practical skills and they even have a remote control dummy that the teacher can control so you can have the experience of taking care of a real patient in a controlled lab, where if something goes wrong, you still learn, but it was only a mannekin (I know I spelled that wrong). UC also had all of their tests on computers, but in the end, they are still their computers - you don't get to keep them (once again, reminded me of a scaled down version of Case).
    I hope this helps.
     
  29. xaelia

    xaelia neenlet
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    I interviewed at all three...accepted at UC and OSU, alternate list at Case. My vote was for Case, for curriculum, hospitals, and general vibe from students. Cincinnati just didn't do it for me. I'm signed up for OSU right now, but would switch to Case if given the chance.
     
  30. TysonCook

    TysonCook Senior Member
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    The Integrated Block schedule would look like this:
    Lectures on Kidney enzymes/pathways in Biochem, while dissection of abdominal and renal areas in Anatomy, while learning about Renal Phys in Physiology, while looking at Loops of Henle in Microanatomy. Then after 6 weeks of lectures, we have a week that would look like this;
    Thur 14th end of lectures/review sessions
    Friday 15th off
    Sat 16 off
    Sun 17 off
    Mon 18 Microanatomy exam Renal 9am-12pm (pm off)
    Tue 19 Gross Anatomy exam abdominal 1pm-4pm (am off)
    Wed 20 off
    Thur 21 Physiology Exam Renal 9am-12pm (pm off)
    Friday 22 off
    Sat 23 Biochem Glyc/Renal 8am-12 pm
    Sun+ off
    Monday--Pub Crawl at 8 bars (school organized)

    You do have one saturday exam, but that is only the first test block. After that you won't have any 4 test weeks, since some courses don't have a lot of material you will skip and only have test weeks like we do now which is Friday Sat Sun off, Monday Gross Anatomy & Neuro.

    All are integrated and I think that it is fantastic and much easier to learn. The downside (for some, not me) is that you do take tests for a week, which I think is much better than taking tests here and there and not being able to sit down and focus. The major reality is that you get a ton of time to study for your tests and not stress about random assignments for other courses.

    The clinical skills lab w/ manniquin is great, and you can go in at anytime with anyone and practice almost anything. Last week we went in w/about 4 friends and worked on drawing blood from each other, good times. :)

    As far as the computers go. We do take almost all our tests on computers, but this is great because the USMLE is on computers so by that time you are used to the format. No you can't take the computers home, but they are always available to you 24/7 and you do have your own, so nobody really is going to be "at your seat".
     
  31. notjvarma

    notjvarma Chief Wahoo
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    I think I'll weigh in on this conversation...

    The integrated pathway at OSU is set up so that you have no more than 5 hours of class per day. Our schedule is set up so that we have lecture for 3 hours in the morning (starting at 9:30) then a small group session in the afternoon for 1.5-2 hours. The afternoon sessions usually happen only 2-3 times a week, leaving the other afternoons free for us. This is going to change for next year, though.

    The class of 2007 will have classes from 7:30-12:30 (including small group meetings) with no afternoon classes. The administration changed this based on the recommendations of our class. The school is pretty good about listening to us, and they'll make changes if they can (sometimes they are constrained by requirements for accreditation and whatnot).

    One thing that will not change is that tests occur every three weeks (usually) on fridays, and if a long weekend or a break is in the schedule, the test will be before that so we can use the break to relax, and not study.

    Also, the incoming class will be taking tests on computer starting in January or so. I don't think the details of this plan have been completely worked out yet.
     
  32. notjvarma

    notjvarma Chief Wahoo
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    I'll add a little bit more about the curriculum in case you're curious. Everything is divided up into blocks.

    For the first 12 weeks, you take Anatomy and Embryology, with exams every 3 weeks. After that, anatomy is done forever. Also, after anatomy, those people doing the independent study pathway go off on their own and everyone else keeps coming to class.

    The next block is called the Cell Block. It features biochemistry, cell biology, genetics, some histology, some pathology, and a little bit of pharmacology.

    The block after that is the Host Defense Block. It's key points are immunology, microbiology, pharmacology (anti-bacterials, anti-fungals, anti-virals, etc), hematology, and heme pathology.

    The last block of the year is the Neuroscience Block, which has 3 divisions in Med I and 1 division at the beginning of Med II (a division is a three week block with an exam at the end). This is what I'm doing right now, it covers neuroanatomy, neurophysiology, pharmacology, neuropathology, and psychiatry. Also, in our patient centered medicine course, they've tied in an Addiction module which goes well with what we're learning in class.

    Hope all of this helps.
     
  33. Horseradish99

    Horseradish99 Old World Primate
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    Wow-- we'll be having class from 7:30AM-12:30 and NO afternoons? That includes anatomy lab and dissection? All in the AM?

    What will I possibly do with myself??? not STUDY?!

    :) That actually sounds pretty awesome... way to go OSU administration... just have to get myself prepared for early rising!

    Scott
     
  34. Oallostavros

    Oallostavros Member
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    NotJVarma,

    Thanks for the info. So, do first years at OSU take physiology? Also, will there be a food break somewhere b/n 7:30 and 12:30?
     
  35. notjvarma

    notjvarma Chief Wahoo
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    You won't get to physiology until you do neurophysiology, which is part of the neuro block at the end of the year.

    If our schedule is any guide, you'll get 12 minute breaks between lectures (the bell rings on the 18's and 30's, of course the amount of time you get depends on the lecturer). I highly doubt you'll get any more free time than that.

    It's enough time to get a couple games of foosball in :)
     
  36. xaelia

    xaelia neenlet
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    Thank goodness we're going to have wireless internet in the Med 1 classroom next year to distract ourselves during that block.

    But 7:30 AM? Seriously? Is that, like, student feedback as a joke to see what they can torture the next class with? ;)
     
  37. Oallostavros

    Oallostavros Member
    7+ Year Member

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    Does anyone know anything about Cinci and OSU's average board scores? I've read that Cinci really prides themselves on their board scores, but I haven't actually seen their numbers. Anyone have any numbers or any idea of where these schools stand in relation to one another?

    Also, anyone know which school is strong in which clinical areas, besides Cinci being good in Peds and EM?
     
  38. italian919

    2+ Year Member

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    Hey I just so happened to find this old thread... Because I have a feeling my decision may come down to these two.. (Ohio res; I'm already accepted at Cinci via BS/MD, but Columbus is closer to home and I was raised a die hard Buckeye fan) .. I'd really love to hear some more recent responses to the discussions brought up in this thread.

    As this thread has been inactive for ~5 years, have any opinions changed regarding OSU and Cinci (and Case for that matter since it's referred to in the thread)? How about the references to curriculum, facilities, administration, and student atmosphere, from any current med students at these schools? I know rankings have changed in those five years, but IMO, being at a school ranked 30 or 40 probably means very little in the long run.

    I am so glad to have found this thread, and really appreciate all comments.
     
  39. italian919

    2+ Year Member

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    Not yet, just very hopeful ! :)
     

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