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Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by fonzy, Apr 30, 2004.
What is the oldest med stdent you have known or heard of?
Used to work at best buy (in computers) and i sold a laptop to a woman who was a 42yr old MS1
How do you know she's 42 and not just in her late 30s or early 40s? Did she actually tell you she's 40? And if so, how did her age come up?
PS A friend of mine at Mizzou said there was a lady in her class with grown children
she looked familiar and i asked her her name, and she turned out to be the mom of a girl i knew. reguarding how i knew her age, she asked me if i thought she was crazy for starting med school at 42, and i said no.
oldest med student was someone admitted in their late 60s i believe...look it up, he graduated at 72(?)
Whoever finds that...it is in a medical school help book somewhere...
now thats crazy
I'm planning on starting next year at 49.
Not planning on a long residency, though
All older, and/or nontraditional premeds and med students.....don't forget to check out http://www.oldpremeds.org They also have great forums. YOu have to register to get access to all the forums but that is fast and free. Oh and I heard from an admissions dean the oldest student she knew was in her late 60's.
Wow, this sounds kinda like an urband legend.
What, are you on a committee or something? You sound like a public sevice announcement...
She can easily make valuble contributions to the society for atleast 15 yrs after completing her residency. That is good news!
You will rue the day that you mock Amy B. She has no mercy. I know from experience.
Who me?? You know I am a
No but I am running for Vice President
I used to think the oldest was me. Then I read this post
Actually Albany Med has a student profiled in their catalog who is in her early fifties.
At one of the schools I interviewed at last year, the MS-IV who interviewed me told me about a 65-y.o. guy who was originally in his class. I guess the guy switched to medicine after a long engineering career, but ended up dropping out after the first year.
Cornell had a guy in his fifties recently, at least I remember something like that from the NYTimes. I don't know if he matriculated, but he was definitely accepted.
A soon to be fellow classmate of mine at Utah is 46. By the looks of it, we have a good number of people over 30. This should make an excellent class, and I think it's awesome the school seems to like such a mixed crowd!
flight, are you really 49? Coz if you are, i gotta give you props.
I am 36 and have a classmate who is 45. There is an MSII at UConn who is in his late 50's or early 60's. He was a PhD researcher at UConn who wanted to become an MD (I believe).
I met a 50-year old premed. He was the nicest person ever.
For Jefferson, the oldest student ever admitted was 51 years old. This was some time ago though, in the early 1990's I think.
38 years old and totally excited to be part of Pitt Class of 2008!!
There was a gal that started at either St. George's or Ross at 57 and became board certified in FP at age 64. Also, a guy was accepted at USF 6 or 7 years ago at age 53 and graduated.
If you are only certified when you are 64, that leaves you how many years to practice? What's the motivation for doing this? Love of medicine? Why not just read medical text books instead of spending all that money and time for a degree you will only be able to use for a few years? I don't mean this in a mean way. I guess I just don't really understand their thought process...
it's a dream, they fulfilled it, even at age 60+ and no one can take that away. i think that's easy to understand.
Plus, people are living longer than ever these days. There's no reason someone couldn't practice until into their 80's, assuming no mental deterioration, of course.
You said it! You don't get the degree without spending all the time and money.
US news profiled Case med in thier 1993 issue (as I recall) and I think they interviewed a med student at Case in her 60's at the time. This is a fuzzy memory though.
Well, when I look at medicine as a career, two central things come to mind for entering the profession. 1) Because it is a dream of mine, and 2) To help others. However, I feel the two are intrinsically tied. It is a dream of mine because of my goal of helping others. Without the second aspect, the first would be fairly empty. To work that hard just to get a degree, but not be able to use that degree for the benefit of others seems vacuous.
I guess I can accept the argument that people are living longer and living more productive lives in later years. However, I just can't imagine getting the degree and then not putting it to use. Imho, the point is NOT the degree, but the goal of helping your fellow men. If I was that age, I would rather use those 7 or 8 years directly helping people in whatever way I could, rather than instead investing my time and energy in a degree that may or may not be utilized.
Of course, these are just my opinions and ultimately it's the individual's choice. I have no right to say they are wrong in their goals, and there is certainly something admirable in their dedication and perseverance.
Age isn't anything but a number.
but all you fellow young'ns talk like you guys are certain you will be living in to your late 70s or 80s, giving you 50 years of practice, and thus making a great positive impact on society.
Well that's not reality.
The truth is, you could lose your life the day you graduate from medical school...and not practice medicine for a minute of your life.
So you can't really worry about things like the length of time you will be able to live out your dream (in this case, practicing medicine). Because, if it truly is your dream, then even practicing medicine for one day...or having one person call you "doctor"...or being able to make ONE person feel better...would make it all worthwhile.
Very eloquently stated and quite insightful for a person of 20 years.
When I was a resident there was a MS4 that was 53. It was kind of weird being a 26 year old resident ordering some guy around that was as old as my dad.
I stated on an earlier post that age was just a state of mind.
I believe that you are never to old to pursue your dreams. I admire the older MS-I's who have decided "hey, I have dream I want to fulfill and By Golly!! I am gonna do it" I have learned that we younguns can benefit from the wisdom of older classmates.
So I take my hat off to older premeds and say go get 'em tigers.
I think the people on this board put far too much weight into the title "doctor." The person you described above does not need a medical degree to help a person. Just look around you if you need evidence. What makes a doctor helping another person so much more special than a social worker or a teacher? I think people inflate the value of doctor's and neglect the importance of helping their fellow men in other ways. Simply put, that person could spend those years helping hundreds of other people, and probably make a bigger impact.
Of course it is possible that us young people could die the day we get our degree and never practice. But you are using idealistic instead of realistic situations to prove your point. The fact is, we are MUCH less likely to die than a 64 year old is, in the next 10 years. We base our decisions on the most likely outcomes, not on outlying extremes. The 20 year old goes into medicine assuming that he will have a decent amount of time to practice. The 64 year old, unless he is out of touch with reality, goes into medicine knowing he will not be able to practice for long.
If you were a 20 year old premed with a terminal illness (going to die in a decade or so), would you still be pre-med? Perhaps you would. I think the majority of us would find it a better use of our time, however, to directly help people in those 10 years than to spend 7 of them getting a degree and only 3 of them helping others as a "doctor."
You are using very idealistic rhetoric that is hard to argue against. However, I would choose in a second to be a teacher or a social worker for 7 years, and help hundreds, than to be a "doctor" and help just a few people.
I'm not claiming to be "right," but I do think I am more practical and less idealistic. And in terms of my goal of helping people, I think my philosophy is even more idealistic, in that it aims to help the most people, regardless of whatever "title" you attach to the person.
My response is not to disparage any profession or anyone's choice and philosophy of how and in what capacity to serve the society.
I firmly believe that health is the most important aspect of a human life. You can work [teach, coach etc.] or help others only if you are healthy. God gave us a physical form and taking care of it is our first duty as we can serve others when we are there to do it [i.e. if we are in good health]. Therefore, I consider health profession very noble.
And this is all coming from a person who has been intentionally injured by doctors including some other people.
I know I've mentioned this before on the forum, but my childhood FP is now about 87 and she is still practicing in the little town where I grew up.
She was Yale School of Medicine, class of 1942. The only woman in her class and for most of her early career. She's pretty tough and a totally awesome physician. She's as sharp today as she was when I was a kid - I hope to be like her when I am 87 !
You'll never get anything done in life if you think and worry about all the limitations.
Death is not something to fear, rather, life is something to love.
Don't let the idea of death dictate your life. Don't look at the limitations, but rather set your eyes on your goal--achieving your dream (if that is becoming a doctor, so be it).
Even if I had a terminal illness, I would still go after my dream of becoming a doctor. I would rather die trying than not trying at all. But that's just me.
It's funny how you are equating the elderly to patients with terminal illnesses...talk about whack stereotypes.
And in your opinion, if you would rather be a teacher/social worker for 7 years than a doctor, then I believe that YOU should become a teacher/social worker (assuming that you are pre-med or med right now). Sure you affect many more people as a teacher/social worker than as a doctor, however I believe that is a truly different type of effect. As a doctor, you can directly heal a person--hands on-- both physically AND intellectually/emotionally. There is no other profession in the world that has this kind of amazing effect on a person. It truly is a dream job.
I saw a doctor in the fall who started med school at 61. he was formely an engineer (which sounds a lot like the other post). he ended up going to med school at guadelajarra (not sure about spelling) and is still practicing at 81 at kaiser permanente in san diego
I saw a show about a Dr. that practiced pediatrics until she was 100+. And, there's a med student at USC that used to be a professor and is now studying medicine in his 70s. He's on some special kind of extended program though so that he can take it at a slower pace.
Medicine certainly is a noble profession. For the most part, its purpose is to increase the quality of life of its patients. What does a teacher do? Open students minds to increase the quality of their lives. What does a social worker do? Puts children in better situations to improve the quality of their lives.
As a future doctor, I certainly hold my profession in high regard. However, I see no reason why doctors are more "noble" than many other professions. Health is but ONE aspect of a meaningful life. Yes, it is essential. But I would argue that there are many other things that must be had to make a life meaningful. These other professions fulfill these roles and are just as noble. Perhaps they are even more noble, for they do so for a fraction of the reimbursement.
Here is my basic argument. You can help a person in more than one way. You don't need to be a doctor to do it. In fact, as an EMT, I found that it was very rare when my medical care was needed or even useful. I made the BIGGEST difference in smaller, simpler ways, such as holding their hands or talking to them compassionately. I didn't need an EMT license to do the above, and I won't need an MD either.
Now in response to the above poster, you are making a lot of incorrect assumptions that I never stated. I never implied death is to be feared. Death is a reality that we must all face and prepare for. It is FOR this reason that I think individuals must account for it when deciding if they should enter medicine or not.
As for your whole, "if i had a terminal illness, i would still do medicine" statement, that's wonderful and I applaud your determination. However, I would merely like to point out, as I did earlier, that wouldn't this time be better used if you were directly helping people rather than studying in a library for a degree you won't get to use? Of course, this depends entirely on the fact that you have unselfish goals (to help other people).
Also, I never equated terminally ill people with the elderly. My point was as follows: As we get older, death becomes more of a concrete reality that we have to face. As young people, we don't think about it as much. The analogy's purpose was to introduce the concrete and tangible sense of death to our age group that might or should be present for an elderly individual.
Finally, I said I would rather be a teacher/social worker IF I knew my time was limited. This is because my ultimate goal is to help people, and I realize there are more ways than one to do it. Here, you reiterate your argument about doctor's being the best. Once again, I have to disagree. When I think of the most important and most influential people in my life, I think of my teachers. For an abused child, the most important person might be the police officer who saves him from this abuse. For a rape victim, the most important person might be the volunteer worker at a local rape clinic.
Doctor's are wonderful. But there is more to life than what they address. If you realize that, you will be a better doctor. If you don't, you will live your life with a stick up your ass, thinking you are the best and not seeing how important other people and their professions are.
On a sidenote, I do not wish to disparage the elderly pre-meds in any way!! In fact, my posts don't even apply to 99% of elderly pre-meds. I have nothing but the utmost respect for you determination. I only wished to introduce an alternative point of view. I hope you will look at my posts as such, and not as an attack.
Auricae, there's just one problem with your reasoning: I wouldn't BE a good teacher or social worker. I would hate the job, I would hate my students/clients, I would hate my life. Would I be helping anyone? Well, maybe on a good day but none of us would be happy about it.
But I CAN be a good doctor. Even as a medical student, I know I have helped people and touched their lives in ways that were meaningful for them - and for me. It is true that I won't be able to practice as long as some (I graduate in - wooo-hooo! - 13 days at age 48), but I like to think that my practice will be of high quality and will maximize my own potential to do good. Someone else can be a good teacher. Someone else can be a good social worker. I can't be good at those, but I can be a good doctor. And those folks who could be good teachers or social workers or whatever, they may not have the skill set to be good doctors. So I'm in the right place, I am sure of it.
Good point, but my post was not intended for you. That is why I said it does not apply to most of the older pre-meds on this board. I was responding to the original post of pre-meds who are in their 60's/70's. It is for these people, who probably will have little or no time to practice, that I directed my responses.
First, I would like to counter the idealism of "it doesn't matter if I only practice 1 day.. it's worth it" with a different idealism of, "why not help people for those years doing something else rather than as a doctor for one day."
Second, there are plenty of opportunities in the medical field besides getting an M.D. where you could put your skills to work much more quickly. PA's, volunteers, ER techs, just to name a few.
To the 60 year old pre-med, I must ask: Are you doing this because you really want to help people or because you are trying to satisfy some internal goal? If it's the second, then fine, that is your choice. But if it's the first, why not consider a less time-intensive alternative in the health care industry where your impact will be made earlier?
I don't think you can simply rationalize the occupation of a doctor to just "helping people." By doing this, you are equating the purpose of a doctor to that of a social worker, an EMT, a volunteer at a homeless shelter, and so forth. Thereby making your theory--that you might as well spend your time "helping people, since that is all doctors do" instead of "wasting" 4 years in medical school--sound legit...however being a doctor entails much more than just "helping people." A doctor serves a significant purpose to society...that differs from that of a social worker, EMT, volunteer, etc. in so many more ways than just the "internal goals" of attaining status and respect.
And since YOU want to become a doctor...I am sure you know that this is true.
True, but I think people on this board inflate what doctor's do sometimes. People watch too much ER. You're right though.. doctor's do more than help people.. they also do a whole lot of paperwork and billing.
They do serve a different role than those other professions you mentioned. But fundamentally, when it comes down to the heart of medicine, they're the same. And isn't that what matters?
Anyway, I don't see any point to continuing this debate. I am talking to a whole lot of people who are in love with medicine and who will defend it to the death. Perhaps you are right in doing so, but I think that also leads to some of the arrogance I encounter among physicians.
it was a good debate dude.
My friend told me there is a MS-1 at Univ. of Florida who is in his mid 50's...I forgot his exact age. I think Vandy had a mom-daughter duo graduate recently...