OMFS Chances?

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computertime

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(Have searched tons of previous threads here regarding OMFS, none touching on my life scenario)

Graduated 8 years ago

NOT in top half of class rank, board scores NOT above 85

Have spent majority of time in practice doing IV Conscious sedation, Implants/Grafts, extractions including 10,000+ 3rds

No connection to any OMFS program or local OMFS mentor

White male 35, married with kids


Give up super successful practice to go follow a dream of OMFS? Too old? Impossible with low rank/grades?

What would your plan of action be in my shoes? Pray for internship first? Go all in?

Thanks!!
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FrogH20 said:
I don't have much special insight to offer as I'm not a surgeon or resident; however, if I were in your shoes I would get a good score on the CBSE before making any career moves. Link below:
http://www.aaoms.org/education-research/dental-students/nbme-for-oms-applicants
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks.

Found this website: http://accessomfs.com/cbseguide

Seems to have some great tips for taking the CBSE. I'll order the Uworld, First Aid, Pathoma, and see where it leads me. Possibly take CBSE when offered this upcoming March 2017.
 
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break 70 on the cbse and youll match somewhere. Worst case scenario, do a 1 year pre-lim internship at a program and then apply to a 4-year program.
 
UncUndergrad1 said:
break 70 on the cbse and youll match somewhere. Worst case scenario, do a 1 year pre-lim internship at a program and then apply to a 4-year program.
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Great advice. Thanks

What do you guys recommend for Letters of Rec at this point?
 
computertime said:
Great advice. Thanks

What do you guys recommend for Letters of Rec at this point?
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Unless you've been keeping contact with academia oral surgeons I doubt anyone will remember you to write a letter.
For that reason alone your best bet would be to do an internship. Hardest part would be convincing the PD that you are a good candidate as many people in your situation tend to give up halfway through. Get a LOR from them and apply. Better yet, match at that program.
 
what do you want out of residency? if its a dentoalveolar practice, you already have it, look no further.

if its pursuing the academic/hospital based route , that is certainly a noble cause, but its not an easy life.

I'm in my 40s, with kids. I have mainly an office based practice. I like OS, but I love spending time with my family and having a life outside with a good income, with a nice amount of leisure time. I started out wanting to pursue an academic career in all its glory, and wanted to do all of the big head and neck cases.

As time wore on, I began to think about whats truly important in life, and thats life outside the professional bubble.

think hard, my man. its a big decision as you know.
 
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Truly appreciate these responses. Lot of great information shared here.
 
It's possible, I would echo the advice about an NBME above 70 and 1 year internship. We have a guy in my residency who is a second year at 39 years with 4 kids. However, it's not an easy path and I would agree with what Localnative says, as having a family with kids especially complicates everything, when you have to come up from behind and catch up to everybody else. It's very difficult already for those who are very smart and got in easily, but then realize it's very different from dental school. When you go home, you can't just hang out with your family; you need to study most of the time and maybe can take off 1 -2 evenings (and by that I mean 3-4 hours max) after having worked a 12-15 hour day.
 
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OMFS is so much more than dentoalveolar. I agree with the above posters, you will be giving up what appears from the outside to be a good life style for that of a first year resident, which means lots of call, grunt work, and studying. I would prefer to hang out with my wife and kids at your stage. Then again, this would be a great way to get away from the wife and kids.
 
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Really appreciate the responses. Great insight in to accepting a major lifestyle change in pursuit of a dream.

Well, my First Aid book came in the mail. I've got 5 months until the next CBSE. If I can study and do well while having two young kids, guess I'll take that as a good shot that I could handle residency.
Although I've never done it, I kind of like the sound of working a lot while I'm still young. Call, etc. I firmly believe it's best to soak up all potential learning opportunities while in residency to be able to say yes to more patient treatment needs upon graduation.

One thing that keeps popping up is people saying words such as "grunt work", or "newbie", or " be prepared for hell". I assumed OMS residency would be a pristine place with good attitudes and high quality surgery? Do some programs treat you less than human for a while until you've proven your worth or something?

Once again, thanks for the discussion everyone.
 
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Agent2362,

If at all possible, might you be able to have that resident PM me? If not I certainly understand.

Thanks
 
setdoc7 said:
OMFS is so much more than dentoalveolar. I agree with the above posters, you will be giving up what appears from the outside to be a good life style for that of a first year resident, which means lots of call, grunt work, and studying. I would prefer to hang out with my wife and kids at your stage. Then again, this would be a great way to get away from the wife and kids.
Click to expand...
Residency is also a great way to find yourself in divorce/annulment proceedings. Our residents had plenty of experience with this.
Your relationship with your wife has to be rock-hard and rock-steady.
Again, think beyond the glory of the knife. Some things are more important.
 
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omfs doesn't have to be a divorce gauntlet -- you know, you can also go to programs where everyone isn't miserable and maintains a life outside of the hospital, they do exist. Just choose to not go somewhere where everyone is miserable. To quote Alpert, "Residency doesn't have to be a Greek tragedy."
 
Welp, I've been studying a lot since my last post. CBSE is March 18th. Wife is on board with full support. Ton of savings to help through these times. I want the education and training. I want the more intense daily lifestyle.

Been using stomponstep1.com to refresh high yield topics while following along with First Aid. Once I've refreshed on all topics, I'll start Uworld, then Pathoma. Also have a anki "brosencephalon deck" on my phone now.

10 years out on these topics....tough coming back to them.
Anyone out there with tips or great materials please shoot me a PM. Love to hear any ways to increase my score chances.

BTW: Do you think having a practice as a GP limited to IV sedation/3rds/implants+grafts for most of my career would be a positive, negative, or no change in chances of OMFS admissions?
Also, for LoRs: Would it be worth it to get any letters from OMFS I could meet/shadow after explaining my goals? Can I get in to externships for ~ 2 weeks at programs for potential letters, being out of D school for so long?
 
Qbank is all you need. Do it all. Multiple times. There's only so many ways they can write questions to test a finite number of topics.

And I don't think it matters at all that you did all those sedations and thirds and whathaveyou. Mostly because no one would care. They care about whether you will answer your pages in the middle of the night, preround on your patients at 430am, check dopplers every two hours overnight, and do whatever else is asked of you. And do it without complaining or rocking the boat.
 
Awesome, thanks Muggsy! By Qbank, do you mean kaplans usmle 1 Qbank and not the NBDE QbankDMD that is advertised at the top of this forum banner?

Exciting times!
 
what do you want out of an oms residency? you already have a "super successful" practice, and it sounds like you are already doing the bread and butter of what a majority amount of private practice oral surgeons do. is it safe to say you want to have a career in bigger hospital surgeries/academics then? because it would be a waste of time (imo) to do residency just to go back to sedation/implants/third molars. you must have a good idea of what you're getting yourself into if it's your dream to become an oral surgeon such as what residency is like and what procedures they do in clinic as well as in hospitals. did you go on any externships during dental school? i think it would be very difficult to understand what residency and oms is about until you've done a couple externships. if you have, good job. if you haven't, i would have highly recommended that you go on one before committing so much time and studying for the cbse. anyways, a noncategorical internship seems like the way to go for you since it's too late to apply this cycle. good luck
 
computertime said:
(Have searched tons of previous threads here regarding OMFS, none touching on my life scenario)

Graduated 8 years ago

NOT in top half of class rank, board scores NOT above 85

Have spent majority of time in practice doing IV Conscious sedation, Implants/Grafts, extractions including 10,000+ 3rds

No connection to any OMFS program or local OMFS mentor

White male 35, married with kids


Give up super successful practice to go follow a dream of OMFS? Too old? Impossible with low rank/grades?

What would your plan of action be in my shoes? Pray for internship first? Go all in?

Thanks!!
Click to expand...

Your making tons of money limiting your practice to dentoalveolar yet you want to go through 4-7 years of hell, lost income, and risk jeopardizing your family life...this is a real head scratcher to me...but the good news is this is a free world and I wish you nothing but good luck, success and the best!
 
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Awarara and periopocket,

Thanks for taking time to respond. You're both correct. If I went to a 4-7(1 year internship prob required in my situation) year residency for OMS, and graduated to do implants/IV/3rds, I would be right back where I am now. Without an established practice, and probably with a lot more gray hair....maybe without a family too. The lost income would probably mean a difference in 5-10 more working years to my retirement schedule long term.

I didn't know if you could still do an externship if you've already graduated? They all talk about being a student when applying.

Hospital surgeries/academics sounds good. More training and skillset sounds good. I don't know what else to say, I just have this feeling in my bones that OMS is the next step in progression for me?
 
computertime said:
Awarara and periopocket,

Thanks for taking time to respond. You're both correct. If I went to a 4-7(1 year internship prob required in my situation) year residency for OMS, and graduated to do implants/IV/3rds, I would be right back where I am now. Without an established practice, and probably with a lot more gray hair....maybe without a family too. The lost income would probably mean a difference in 5-10 more working years to my retirement schedule long term.

I didn't know if you could still do an externship if you've already graduated? They all talk about being a student when applying.

Hospital surgeries/academics sounds good. More training and skillset sounds good. I don't know what else to say, I just have this feeling in my bones that OMS is the next step in progression for me?
Click to expand...

I did externships as a practicing dentist. No reason you can't, some programs will be friendlier towards it than others.
 
computertime said:
Hospital surgeries/academics sounds good. More training and skillset sounds good. I don't know what else to say, I just have this feeling in my bones that OMS is the next step in progression for me?
Click to expand...

Sorry if it feels like I'm coming off strong, but what exactly do you like about OMS though? OMS is the next step how? Like what was said, if you have been doing IV sedation, 3rds, implants, etc procedures for a long time already, there is a high chance you are competent above what a residency would teach you; and you would be better off with high quality CE specific to your needs rather than completing a whole residency. Sure you would learn some tricks or tips from the faculty, but is that worth 4-7 years of lost income, family time, etc?

Would you like to complete it to have OMS status to be able to bill insurance higher? For name/status recognition or validation in your style of practice? Are you more interested in maxillofacial surgery/reconstructions? If you feel "OMS is the next step" solely to learn more about dentoalveolar procedures that you are already doing, I'd say go with CE. There's nothing wrong with limiting your practice to those procedures as a GP.
 
Munks said:
Sorry if it feels like I'm coming off strong, but what exactly do you like about OMS though? OMS is the next step how? Like what was said, if you have been doing IV sedation, 3rds, implants, etc procedures for a long time already, there is a high chance you are competent above what a residency would teach you; and you would be better off with high quality CE specific to your needs rather than completing a whole residency. Sure you would learn some tricks or tips from the faculty, but is that worth 4-7 years of lost income, family time, etc?

Would you like to complete it to have OMS status to be able to bill insurance higher? For name/status recognition or validation in your style of practice? Are you more interested in maxillofacial surgery/reconstructions? If you feel "OMS is the next step" solely to learn more about dentoalveolar procedures that you are already doing, I'd say go with CE. There's nothing wrong with limiting your practice to those procedures as a GP.
Click to expand...

Maybe he wants to do more than dentoalveolar? ORIF of mandible/midface fractures. Orthognathics. Surgical treatment of maxfacial pathology. Maybe that sort of stuff? I dunno tossing that out there. Maybe OP can elaborate.
 
Hey Munks!

Sorry If I didn't make that area of discussion more clear. My goals for going to an OMS program would not be for dentoalveolar. If I just learn IV/3rds/implants, i'd be right where I am now - probably with not a significant difference of info/skill gained. I've truly enjoyed the "surgery" involved with 3rds/implants, and find myself wanting more in depth surgery skills, potentially even never doing those things again. This would be a total change for me and I'd likely head off in a different direction with a mix of hospital/private, or even all hospital/teaching career.

I seem to feel most satisfied in life in a teaching situation....private practice feels like being alone on an island.
 
computertime said:
Hey Munks!

Sorry If I didn't make that area of discussion more clear.
Click to expand...

You don't have to justify your choice to a bunch of jokers sitting behind a computer. Hammer, hammer, hammer UWorld and give it a shot. Your dentoalveolar is nice to have a skillset prior as going to residency you'll likely be working with subpar techs (someplaces pretty much w/o even a subpar tech) and crappy equipment. You will quickly see how those super gps who practice jack stuff up and refer to the academic centers to fix their chase for the almighty dollar. Such is life....
 
computertime said:
Hey Munks!
Sorry If I didn't make that area of discussion more clear. My goals for going to an OMS program would not be for dentoalveolar. If I just learn IV/3rds/implants, i'd be right where I am now - probably with not a significant difference of info/skill gained. I've truly enjoyed the "surgery" involved with 3rds/implants, and find myself wanting more in depth surgery skills, potentially even never doing those things again. This would be a total change for me and I'd likely head off in a different direction with a mix of hospital/private, or even all hospital/teaching career.
I seem to feel most satisfied in life in a teaching situation....private practice feels like being alone on an island.
Click to expand...

Right on, then I think OMS is definitely a step in the right direction! From what I understand, a 1 yr internship would probably be your best bet for entry.. unless you really really knock that CBSE out of the park, I hear it's very tough to get into OMS without some sort of internship. That plus gaining good letters of recommendation.

Also, others can probably give a better idea, but I've always thought the 6 year programs to be more hospital/MFS oriented while the 4 year ones are lean more towards the 3rds/implants/etc - I could very well be wrong though.

Toronto77 said:
You don't have to justify your choice to a bunch of jokers sitting behind a computer. Hammer, hammer, hammer UWorld and give it a shot. Your dentoalveolar is nice to have a skillset prior as going to residency you'll likely be working with subpar techs (someplaces pretty much w/o even a subpar tech) and crappy equipment. You will quickly see how those super gps who practice jack stuff up and refer to the academic centers to fix their chase for the almighty dollar. Such is life....
Click to expand...

Toronto don't get your panties in a bunch, we're all here to help ;). OP asked for guidance, and it should be obvious why it is important to know the reasons for him wanting to enter a residency. If anything it would be a disservice to give advise to a person that did not know what he was getting into, or for what reasons.

Not only that, but to the OP you should be prepared to articulate extremely well why you would leave a successful practice and go back to residency - I guarantee it will come up during every interview. Some programs may favor post-grad experience, others may surprisingly consider it a negative.
 
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Hello all. Studying going good, making lots of progress covering info.

Considering externships. Considering I have no one to write LoRs being out on my own so long, is it normal to ask the dept members at an externship to write you a Letter of Rec after only 2 short weeks? Might they frown upon this and blow my chance at that specific program where I extern? If my CBSE turns out decent, I'll aim to extern many places.

Thanks!!!
 
Bumped into this thread after being quite inactive for sometime, but I think I can totally relate to you.

We are pretty much in the same boat: been out of school for a while, have kid, pretty awesome income, and whatnot. Thought of surgery being the next step in life and not sure if it's attainable.

But let me tell you, if that certain aspect of surgery is drawing you into residency, then I think there's nothing wrong pursuing it!!

CBSE is a beast, but can be beat, and judging from what you are doing/prepping, I think you are on the right track, and you should be good to go! Pace yourself, and make sure you check your performance/progress with mock exam that can be purchased online.

LoR may present to be a problem since you been out for so long. I am lucky in that I am in the military, so my superiors and fellow surgeons are able to provide LoR for me, hence I would say going into an OMFS internship may be your best bet to rack up on those recs.

Externship is certainly do-able, too! I have done one and am in the process of setting a second one up. That said, depending on where you are licensed, you may not may not be as hands-on as you want. Being a dental student, there's usually agreement and liability coverage for you to assist in cases or prep/interview patients, but the minute you graduate, I have not found many programs willing to accept your malpractice insurance and let you be all hands-on and whatnot. That said, an observership isn't a bad idea! Because it's still a great way to experience the life of a resident. I did exactly that in my first observership, I pre-rounded with the residents, I stayed late until all the residents are ready to leave, I made sure I found the most appealing OR cases to observe and ask questions. Now it may be tough to ask for LoR after only a short week or two spent in a program, so I wouldn't personally use that as my LoR (but that's just my .02).

After all, I just want to say good luck and know that you are not alone in this situation!
 
Sorry to bump old thread but...just curious. Where would someone have to practice to build up an office with that kind of patient base as a GP? A rural area? Most people I've run into would rather have their 3rds/implants performed by an OMS than a GP, simply for the perception that the OMS is more qualified to do the procedure.
 
kingme23 said:
Sorry to bump old thread but...just curious. Where would someone have to practice to build up an office with that kind of patient base as a GP? A rural area? Most people I've run into would rather have their 3rds/implants performed by an OMS than a GP, simply for the perception that the OMS is more qualified to do the procedure.
Click to expand...

There are a small number of GPs who limit their practice to minor surgical procedures.
 
vellnueve said:
There are a small number of GPs who limit their practice to minor surgical procedures.
Click to expand...

Do they operate off referrals? OP said he spent his time doing IV sedation, meaning he must have been performing a large chunk of what a typical private practice OMFS does?
 
computertime said:
Hey Munks!

Sorry If I didn't make that area of discussion more clear. My goals for going to an OMS program would not be for dentoalveolar. If I just learn IV/3rds/implants, i'd be right where I am now - probably with not a significant difference of info/skill gained. I've truly enjoyed the "surgery" involved with 3rds/implants, and find myself wanting more in depth surgery skills, potentially even never doing those things again. This would be a total change for me and I'd likely head off in a different direction with a mix of hospital/private, or even all hospital/teaching career.

I seem to feel most satisfied in life in a teaching situation....private practice feels like being alone on an island.
Click to expand...
You could get a teaching position at a dental school or GP residency program without having to go through all of this extra training. I am a GP, and have been teaching at GPR's for over 16 years. There is always a shortage of good faculty, and an even greater shortage in dental schools. The mix of teaching and private practice works for me.
 
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