OMFS lifestyle during residency

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vize

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This is basically what separates omfs from all the other specialties, right? So, what's a typical day like for you omfs residents out there? I've spoken to a couple in messages already, but are you really spending 100 hours a week at the hospital? Are you always doing procedures during those 100 hour weeks? And during the procedures, how are they managed? Is it just you and assistants or do you have some higher-up omfs watching? How/when do you even learn how to do the advanced procedures?! Certainly not in dental school.

And what about rotations... what are they? Maybe I've watched the TV show "Scrubs" too many times, but are omfs rotations just like a physician's rotations? Are you basically gathered around your program director, or some other omfs more advanced than you, and then basically verbally quizzed on the patient's diagnosis, in front of the patient? I know I could gather all this information from an internship but I'm curious before I do one (if I do). Thanks in advance.
 
If your dental school has a residency program, get involved. A person has no idea what the residents are up to until he follows them around for a few days or so. If no residency, then set up an externship. These experiences give you a taste but as I understand it, it is still harder than you expect once you get there.
 
vize said:
This is basically what separates omfs from all the other specialties, right? So, what's a typical day like for you omfs residents out there? I've spoken to a couple in messages already, but are you really spending 100 hours a week at the hospital? Are you always doing procedures during those 100 hour weeks? And during the procedures, how are they managed? Is it just you and assistants or do you have some higher-up omfs watching? How/when do you even learn how to do the advanced procedures?! Certainly not in dental school.

And what about rotations... what are they? Maybe I've watched the TV show "Scrubs" too many times, but are omfs rotations just like a physician's rotations? Are you basically gathered around your program director, or some other omfs more advanced than you, and then basically verbally quizzed on the patient's diagnosis, in front of the patient? I know I could gather all this information from an internship but I'm curious before I do one (if I do). Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

100+ hours a week is typical. This does not include additional study time. Depending on the # of residents and whether facial trauma call is split/shared with ENT or Plastics can make a big difference in your call schedule. The reality is that in most programs, OMFS still takes the majority of facial trauma.

Pre-Rounds start between 4-:5:30am, Formal Rounds between 6:30-7am... Consults are completed throughout the day to the ER/Trauma, ICU, Peds etc...

Rotations are on the PGY 1 or PGY 2 level. In these rotations you are generally considered a co-resident, and not a medical student (unless you do them while off in medical school). Anesthesia is definitely as an "anesthesia resident" where you run your own General Anesthetic Cases.

Learning comes from various sources. Reading, Observation, Hands on Experience, Research for Publication, Formal Attending Didactics, Resident Lectures and the ever so wonderful PIMPING. Attendings Supervise and Senior Residents Supervise and Teach the junior residents the ropes of the hospital. The learning curve is very steep, and you have to be tough or you will sink very quickly. You are surrounded by constant difficulties that you never imagined coming from dental school. There is a lot of life and death.

The mantra of residency is: Eat When You Can, you can Sleep when you are Dead!

Its a hellacious 4-6 years, but well worth it!
 
Bifid Uvula said:
100+ hours a week is typical. This does not include additional study time. Depending on the # of residents and whether facial trauma call is split/shared with ENT or Plastics can make a big difference in your call schedule. The reality is that in most programs, OMFS still takes the majority of facial trauma.

Pre-Rounds start between 4-:5:30am, Formal Rounds between 6:30-7am... Consults are completed throughout the day to the ER/Trauma, ICU, Peds etc...

Rotations are on the PGY 1 or PGY 2 level. In these rotations you are generally considered a co-resident, and not a medical student (unless you do them while off in medical school). Anesthesia is definitely as an "anesthesia resident" where you run your own General Anesthetic Cases.

Learning comes from various sources. Reading, Observation, Hands on Experience, Research for Publication, Formal Attending Didactics, Resident Lectures and the ever so wonderful PIMPING. Attendings Supervise and Senior Residents Supervise and Teach the junior residents the ropes of the hospital. The learning curve is very steep, and you have to be tough or you will sink very quickly. You are surrounded by constant difficulties that you never imagined coming from dental school. There is a lot of life and death.

The mantra of residency is: Eat When You Can, you can Sleep when you are Dead!

Its a hellacious 4-6 years, but well worth it!
Click to expand...

Wow,

Thanks for such a post!

I seem to notice that most guys I talk to who are in OMFS, plan on doing private practice after they have completed their residency.

Is this the general feel of most people who are in OMFS?
 
Bifid Uvula said:
100+ hours a week is typical. This does not include additional study time. Depending on the # of residents and whether facial trauma call is split/shared with ENT or Plastics can make a big difference in your call schedule. The reality is that in most programs, OMFS still takes the majority of facial trauma.

Pre-Rounds start between 4-:5:30am, Formal Rounds between 6:30-7am... Consults are completed throughout the day to the ER/Trauma, ICU, Peds etc...

Rotations are on the PGY 1 or PGY 2 level. In these rotations you are generally considered a co-resident, and not a medical student (unless you do them while off in medical school). Anesthesia is definitely as an "anesthesia resident" where you run your own General Anesthetic Cases.

Learning comes from various sources. Reading, Observation, Hands on Experience, Research for Publication, Formal Attending Didactics, Resident Lectures and the ever so wonderful PIMPING. Attendings Supervise and Senior Residents Supervise and Teach the junior residents the ropes of the hospital. The learning curve is very steep, and you have to be tough or you will sink very quickly. You are surrounded by constant difficulties that you never imagined coming from dental school. There is a lot of life and death.

The mantra of residency is: Eat When You Can, you can Sleep when you are Dead!

Its a hellacious 4-6 years, but well worth it!
Click to expand...



Hi,

I just have one more thing to ask you and would appreciate if you could comment.

I talked to an upperclassman who just finished his externship at Parkland.

He told me that a lot of residents he met while doing externships mentioned to him that they moonlight on the weekends.

The money they make on the weekends in combination with their stipend usually amount to around 6 figures.
Is this true?

Thanks a million!

-Sunny
 
Sunny_1225 said:
Wow,

Thanks for such a post!

I seem to notice that most guys I talk to who are in OMFS, plan on doing private practice after they have completed their residency.

Is this the general feel of most people who are in OMFS?
Click to expand...

It depends on what you wanna do. Private practice is just too tempting to pass up because of the money. In academics you'll only make half or a third of what you can in private practice but....there are pluses and minuses to both. It's funny. If you ask most interns what they want to do the answer usually is.....craniofacial, cancer, trauma, and big whacks...most say a fellowship.....then when they become chiefs....many just want to finish and start ripping out whizzies because the money is so good....with less headache....I would just focus on getting into residency first and you'll figure out what you wanna do afterward....
 
Sunny_1225 said:
Hi,

I just have one more thing to ask you and would appreciate if you could comment.

I talked to an upperclassman who just finished his externship at Parkland.

He told me that a lot of residents he met while doing externships mentioned to him that they moonlight on the weekends.

The money they make on the weekends in combination with their stipend usually amount to around 6 figures.
Is this true?

Thanks a million!

-Sunny
Click to expand...

I really doubt it's routinely 6 figures, but it's possible if you have no other life. Regardless, you can moonlight one day a week and make the same money as your stipend pays all week.
 
LSU-Cowboy said:
....I would just focus on getting into residency first and you'll figure out what you wanna do afterward....
Click to expand...

I agree with you on your post except for this last line. Just my opinion but I think it's important to have a general idea of what you want to do when you apply so you can aim for the right kind of program and don't limit yourself. From what I remember from interviews and externships, there are the wizzy/implant factories, the more well rounded full scope programs (with little wizzy exposure), and then there are those inbetween. If you know all you're going to do is wizzies and implants, than that's the type of place you want to try and go to. If you want to get your hands more dirty, then aim for a program that will get you the exposure you're looking for. Also if you even THINK you may want to do a fellowship afterwards, I think it's important to go to a 6 year program so you don't close that door of opportunity...even if it means going thru 2 extra years of training to figure out that all you want to do is wizzies and implants. Having the 2 extra letters at the end of your name never killed anyone...and I heard it gets you laid, even the hopeless ones.
 
Thanks guys for the great replies!

I just attended a lecture given by my school's OMFS director - Dennis Duke Yama****a and he mentioned that his new graduates get paid anywhere between $250,000.00 to $400,000.00 the first year they are out.

Is the 250,000.00 salary more for a person who works in the hospital, and the 400,000.00 salary more for the person who does more private practice (wisdom teeth and implants)?

I hope I'm not suggesting to anyone that money is my main focus. It's just that with my student debt being around 380000 by the time I graduate (I go to USC), I want to know how I can pay off my loans ASAP.

Thanks a million guys.
 
flat4 said:
I think it's important to have a general idea of what you want to do when you apply so you can aim for the right kind of program and don't limit yourself.
Click to expand...

Well said. You can do OMFS residency anywhere but the training varies significantly from program to program. It is difficult to have a realistic idea of what you want to be doing in 6 years - but you do need to start thinking about what is important to you.

If you want to chuck teeth - do you really want to expose yourself to 4 or 6 years of hurt in a program that does hundreds of trauma/cosmetic/craniofacial/cancer etc... cases. Maybe you should look for places where you can place 3000 implants and crank out 3rds all day long.

If heart is set on fellowship training or a career in academic OMFS - you need to consider a program that provides a much broader scope of training, research support, etc...
 
flat4 said:
I agree with you on your post except for this last line. Just my opinion but I think it's important to have a general idea of what you want to do when you apply so you can aim for the right kind of program and don't limit yourself. From what I remember from interviews and externships, there are the wizzy/implant factories, the more well rounded full scope programs (with little wizzy exposure), and then there are those inbetween. If you know all you're going to do is wizzies and implants, than that's the type of place you want to try and go to. If you want to get your hands more dirty, then aim for a program that will get you the exposure you're looking for. Also if you even THINK you may want to do a fellowship afterwards, I think it's important to go to a 6 year program so you don't close that door of opportunity...even if it means going thru 2 extra years of training to figure out that all you want to do is wizzies and implants. Having the 2 extra letters at the end of your name never killed anyone...and I heard it gets you laid, even the hopeless ones.
Click to expand...

Flat,

i agree 100%. You don't want to limit yourself; that's how I looked at it when I applied. I wanted to keep my options open....and wanted a well-rounded program with some exposure to all aspects of OMFS: craniofacial, cosmetics, cancer, etc.....including the bread and butter wizzies and implants. 2 letters never hurt anyone....plus you don't realize how much medicine you don't learn in dental school until you go through med school.
 
flat4 said:
Having the 2 extra letters at the end of your name never killed anyone...and I heard it gets you laid, even the hopeless ones.
Click to expand...

Worked for toof. Just ask how happy his boyfriend is.
 
Many of you have said that the hours are around 100+ per week...

Is 6 or 7 this days a week or M-F?....

Also what is the time schedule like? (on average) what time do you start and end each day?

thanks
 
jonnytight said:
Many of you have said that the hours are around 100+ per week...

Is 6 or 7 this days a week or M-F?....

Also what is the time schedule like? (on average) what time do you start and end each day?

thanks
Click to expand...

This is 7 days per week. Sometimes you may not have to come in on weekends if you're not on call, but it's rare at many programs to not come in at least once per weekend. Some programs have conferences every weekend.

At my program, the post-call guy starts rounding on patients around 5am, sooner if there's more patients than usual. The rest of the residents meet around 6:30 to round as a group with the chief. Then it's OR/clinic all day. Some days we get to leave around 4pm, but some days it's 8-10pm depending on the OR schedule and how much work there is to get done. There is no such thing as "shift work" because you don't get to leave until the work is done.
 
jonnytight said:
Many of you have said that the hours are around 100+ per week...

Is 6 or 7 this days a week or M-F?....

Also what is the time schedule like? (on average) what time do you start and end each day?

thanks
Click to expand...

I have not seen daylight in 6weeks:scared: There goes my summer tan!
 
So if you're basically on call at least 6 days per week... then how would a resident be able to moonlight on the weekends?

Are there a certain number of weekends that a resident isnt on call each month?


toofache32 said:
This is 7 days per week. Sometimes you may not have to come in on weekends if you're not on call, but it's rare at many programs to not come in at least once per weekend. Some programs have conferences every weekend.

At my program, the post-call guy starts rounding on patients around 5am, sooner if there's more patients than usual. The rest of the residents meet around 6:30 to round as a group with the chief. Then it's OR/clinic all day. Some days we get to leave around 4pm, but some days it's 8-10pm depending on the OR schedule and how much work there is to get done. There is no such thing as "shift work" because you don't get to leave until the work is done.
Click to expand...
 
jonnytight said:
So if you're basically on call at least 6 days per week... then how would a resident be able to moonlight on the weekends?

Are there a certain number of weekends that a resident isnt on call each month?
Click to expand...

Being on call doesn't really matter, because everyone is busy regardkless. On call just means your pager is the one going off for consults. I've ended up spending the night at the hospital on many nights when I wasn't even on call. If you get done at midnight and have to be back at 4am to round, then going home is just burning up your sleep time so what's the point? Don't get hung up on the on call thing if you think that the other days will be 9-5 because they won't.
 
jonnytight said:
then how would a resident be able to moonlight on the weekends?
Click to expand...

You don't.

You'll be making so much money after you finish that killing yourself by trying to moonlight to boost your residency income totally isn't worth it.
 
jonnytight said:
So if you're basically on call at least 6 days per week... then how would a resident be able to moonlight on the weekends?

Are there a certain number of weekends that a resident isnt on call each month?
Click to expand...


It sounds like you may be better cut out for pediatric or orthodontics where you get to go home every day. If you have to ask these type of questions, then OMS is probably not be for you. Most OMS residents breathe/eat/drink/**** surgery and love it. It's a red flag when you ask these type of questions.
 
toofache32 said:
It sounds like you may be better cut out for pediatric or orthodontics where you get to go home every day. If you have to ask these type of questions, then OMS is probably not be for you. Most OMS residents breathe/eat/drink/**** surgery and love it. It's a red flag when you ask these type of questions.
Click to expand...

I don't know if pediatrics or orthodontics would cut it for this guy. Sounds like he has his heart set on becoming a SURGEON, so I am sure he'd be happy with a career in periodontics. 😀
 
Jumping through hoops during the intern year is one thing, then studying for the USMLE Step 1 is another! The fun just doesn't end.....🙄
 
Yah-E said:
Jumping through hoops during the intern year is one thing, then studying for the USMLE Step 1 is another! The fun just doesn't end.....🙄
Click to expand...

you have no idea how ****ty med school is. You are gonna be in a whole world of hurt in 3rd year med school.
 
Doggie said:
you have no idea how ****ty med school is. You are gonna be in a whole world of hurt in 3rd year med school.
Click to expand...

i HATE it.....can't wait till this misery is over
 
Hey buddies! Over here in sunny west Los Angeles at the Gucci program. Even at a country club like UCLA you will put in 12-14 hours per day when not on call. I routinely pass out from exhaustion when I get home. My roommate finds me with my face on my computer, sprawled out on the floor, feebly attempting to put together a presentation for conference. At the hospital/clinic it's pretty much non-stop. Lunch is infrequent and when it happens it's only 10-15 minutes. You'll work your arse off no matter where you go.
 
drhobie7 said:
Over here in sunny west Los Angeles at the Gucci program. Even at a country club like UCLA you will put in 12-14 hours per day when not on call. I routinely pass out from exhaustion when I get home. My roommate finds me with my face on my computer, sprawled out on the floor, feebly attempting to put together a presentation for conference. At the hospital/clinic it's pretty much non-stop. Lunch is infrequent and when it happens it's only 10-15 minutes. You'll work your arse off no matter where you go.
Click to expand...

The lab coats with the Louis Vuitton logo are pretty sweet though. That's the biggest benefit of the country club. Well, that and the early outs for rounds of golf and personal driver that takes us in to the hospital.

Yeah, drhobie and I have been talking about this a lot lately...if we are country club and we work this much, how does anyone else even do it at a "hard core" program. I just don't see how you could be busier...but I guess it happens.
 
toofache32 said:
interesting.....I usually require assistance from Johnny Walker....
Click to expand...

Yeah, Johnny and I know each other well and I'm actually sipping on one right now...
 
lol.... see you in the OR 😀

Billy Gilmore said:
I don't know if pediatrics or orthodontics would cut it for this guy. Sounds like he has his heart set on becoming a SURGEON, so I am sure he'd be happy with a career in periodontics. 😀
Click to expand...
 
Kach said:
Question: Is it possible to attend medical school first and then become an OMFS? If so, what programs offer this? THanx
Click to expand...

Baylor mentions you can do an OMFS 6-year program after medical school and get a dental degree. I don't remember seeing any other school websites explicitly saying they do this. Do a search, there was a thread on this not too long ago actually.
 
Meatwad said:
Baylor mentions you can do an OMFS 6-year program after medical school and get a dental degree. I don't remember seeing any other school websites explicitly saying they do this. Do a search, there was a thread on this not too long ago actually.
Click to expand...

Michigan also.
 
toofache32 said:
Michigan also.
Click to expand...

👍

Do you know of anyone, personally, whose been successful with this route at any program? I'd imagine you'd have to crush Step 1 and be an all-star in order to have your application be taken seriously. Or do you think it's more nepotism and kissing ass? Bit of both?
 
Meatwad said:
👍

Do you know of anyone, personally, whose been successful with this route at any program? I'd imagine you'd have to crush Step 1 and be an all-star in order to have your application be taken seriously. Or do you think it's more nepotism and kissing ass? Bit of both?
Click to expand...

I met a guy doing this at Louisville, KY's program, he finished about 3-4 years ago. Fred ?something was his name. He did med school in Oregon, applied for OMFS but didn't match. So he did a year of general surgery, then matched into Louisville's 6-year program. But he had to do 3 years of dental school while the regular residents just did 2 years of med school. He had already done his general surgery year, so it was still a 6 year program.

Alabama & Baylor are 2 other places that have done this in the past. Obviously, this can only be done at programs affiliated with a dental school.
 
toofache32 said:
I met a guy doing this at Louisville, KY's program, he finished about 3-4 years ago. Fred ?something was his name. He did med school in Oregon, applied for OMFS but didn't match. So he did a year of general surgery, then matched into Louisville's 6-year program. But he had to do 3 years of dental school while the regular residents just did 2 years of med school. He had already done his general surgery year, so it was still a 6 year program.

Alabama & Baylor are 2 other places that have done this in the past. Obviously, this can only be done at programs affiliated with a dental school.
Click to expand...

New to the board here. Thought I would chime in. I am a first year OMS resident at Baylor. Currently we have one person in our program doing the DDS/OMS program. He did med school and then a year of general surgery and I think will still have to do 6 years (3 in dental school). I dont know how often our program would be willing to take someone in this route. I guess it depends on the perceived need for extra residents. If you are interested you should call or email Dr. Schow's secretary, Ellie. She can probably give you some info. Hope this helps.
 
Thanks to toofache and Shuckin 3rds for the info.

My next question: any possibility an MD can get into a combined DDS/Perio residency?

(I'm not a dentist, but I've read through some of the posts you guys make where you rail on perios, and I practically cry from laughing sometimes.)
 
Shuckin 3rds said:
New to the board here. Thought I would chime in. I am a first year OMS resident at Baylor. Currently we have one person in our program doing the DDS/OMS program. He did med school and then a year of general surgery and I think will still have to do 6 years (3 in dental school). I dont know how often our program would be willing to take someone in this route. I guess it depends on the perceived need for extra residents. If you are interested you should call or email Dr. Schow's secretary, Ellie. She can probably give you some info. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, where did he go to med school?
 
Meatwad said:
Thanks to toofache and Shuckin 3rds for the info.

My next question: any possibility an MD can get into a combined DDS/Perio residency?
Click to expand...

I suppose this is possible since MDs have a pulse, right?
 
toofache32 said:
Just out of curiosity, where did he go to med school?
Click to expand...

He did med school at Galveston I think and then did his PGY1 at Texas Tech. He was acually over at Parkland this summer doing Anesthesia so you may have met him.
 
To all the OMFS Residents out there,

Hi!

I really, really want to get into OMFS. I don't care where I go I just want to do it so badly.

besides getting a good board score, what else should students try to do.

I'm doing research right now, and it is just unbearable. I hate every second of it.

But if it will help me get into OMFS, then I'll continue to do it in 2nd year too.

I guess my question is:
1) is research really important?


.
 
Motown said:
If you want to chuck teeth - do you really want to expose yourself to 4 or 6 years of hurt in a program that does hundreds of trauma/cosmetic/craniofacial/cancer etc... cases. Maybe you should look for places where you can place 3000 implants and crank out 3rds all day long.
Click to expand...

Where are programs like that?
 
LSU-Cowboy said:
Flat,

i agree 100%. You don't want to limit yourself; that's how I looked at it when I applied. I wanted to keep my options open....and wanted a well-rounded program with some exposure to all aspects of OMFS: craniofacial, cosmetics, cancer, etc.....including the bread and butter wizzies and implants. 2 letters never hurt anyone....plus you don't realize how much medicine you don't learn in dental school until you go through med school.
Click to expand...

which ones are some of these more "well rounded" programs that you speak of?????
 
parkland, shreveport, uab, new orleans, louisville, oregon, maryland, jacksonville
 
servitup said:
parkland, shreveport, uab, new orleans, louisville, oregon, maryland, jacksonville
Click to expand...

I would add the following:

UCSF, Loma Linda, Houston, Emory, University of Washington, Washington Hospital Center in DC, Montefiore, Highland Hospital (UOP), Carle, and probably a bunch more I'm not aware/thinking of.

These are all powerhouse programs that will give you the resources and experiences to become a great surgeon, if you put in the effort (which is tremendous).
 
drhobie7 said:
I would add the following:

UCSF, Loma Linda, Houston, Emory, University of Washington, Washington Hospital Center in DC, Montefiore, Highland Hospital (UOP), Carle, and probably a bunch more I'm not aware/thinking of.

These are all powerhouse programs that will give you the resources and experiences to become a great surgeon, if you put in the effort (which is tremendous).
Click to expand...

what about USC?
 
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