OMFS Program Tiers

[biggezzz]

Does anyone know which OMFS programs are 1st, 2cd, and 3rd tier?

Thanks

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[Mackchops]

1st tier is the one you get into
Everything else... does it matter?

Seriously, the word is that you'll want a broad-scope program. But what this means to you might be different for someone else. Do you want single/dual degree programs? T&T? Craniofacial? Path? Many factors to consider.

 

[biggezzz]

I guess the real reason I am asking that question is because I am not your typical applying durring dental school student.
I actually finished in 2005 and then did a GPR and finished in 2006. Well now I am considering going back and pursueing OMFS. I just want to get a realistic picture if it is going to be possible for me to get accepted into a program.
By asking about the tiers, I was hoping to avoid the programs everyone wants and focus on the lesser known programs that I might be accepted to.

Any info would be helpful.

Thanks

 

[Squished Rat]

I guess the real reason I am asking that question is because I am not your typical applying durring dental school student.
I actually finished in 2005 and then did a GPR and finished in 2006. Well now I am considering going back and pursueing OMFS. I just want to get a realistic picture if it is going to be possible for me to get accepted into a program.
By asking about the tiers, I was hoping to avoid the programs everyone wants and focus on the lesser known programs that I might be accepted to.

Any info would be helpful.

Thanks

Lesser known programs = the smaller NYC programs.

 

[Chapman27]

While this is a very controversial question. I think it is easy to separate the 1st tier programs from the rest. I think the first tier programs are the ones with the strongest faculty base, and have produced the leaders of OMS. In my opinion these are the 1st tier programs. Residents in these programs have the opportunity to cut with the top OMS in the world, and have the widest scope of training.

Oregon (Dierks, Assael, Bell, Myall, Potter all in 1 program)
Parkland (The program that produced Who's Who in OMFS--i.e., Turvey and Fonseca)
Maryland (Ord and a strong team of young fellowship trained attendings)
North Carolina (Tucker and Bailey)
MGH/Harvard (Kaban, Dodson, Padwa, 2 years of Harvard Gen Surg etc...)
LSU-NO (Block, Kent, etc...)
LSU-Shreveport (1 word, Ghali)
Alabama (Waite, Holmes, etc...)
Pittsburgh (Ochs and Costello)
UCSF (Pogrel and a strong team of young fellowship trained attendings)
Kentucky (Van Sikel, Haug)

 

[InMyCrossHairs]

While this is a very controversial question. I think it is easy to separate the 1st tier programs from the rest. I think the first tier programs are the ones with the strongest faculty base, and have produced the leaders of OMS. In my opinion these are the 1st tier programs. Residents in these programs have the opportunity to cut with the top OMS in the world, and have the widest scope of training.

Oregon (Dierks, Assael, Bell, Myall, Potter all in 1 program)
Parkland (The program that produced Who's Who in OMFS--i.e., Turvey and Fonseca)
Maryland (Ord and a strong team of young fellowship trained attendings)
North Carolina (Tucker and Bailey)
MGH/Harvard (Kaban, Dodson, Padwa, 2 years of Harvard Gen Surg etc...)
LSU-NO (Block, Kent, etc...)
LSU-Shreveport (1 word, Ghali)
Alabama (Waite, Holmes, etc...)
Pittsburgh (Ochs and Costello)
UCSF (Pogrel and a strong team of young fellowship trained attendings)
Kentucky (Van Sikel, Haug)

I am not sure what is more funny. The list provided, or the provider of the list. Leave it to a dental student to begin "tiering" OMFS programs.

You are probably right about a few of the programs...Oregon, Parkland, Shreve, Kentucky and Alabama, you may have missed the boat on others. Just because there is a "big name" at a program doesnt give it "top tier" status. Most these guys make their residents watch them do surgery, have fellowships that keep the residents away from many of the good cases and lock you up in med school for three years. Dont become intoxicated by someone who has slapped their name on journal's and OMFS text chapters. No doubt this is important, but by no means the most important component to a program.

I saw you left out Jacksonville, UT Knox, Carle, Louisville, VCU, Miami just to name a few. These are all programs that cut early, often, and on basically everything.

But as it was said earlier, the top tier is the one you get into. Not everyone wants to do the same thing. But if you want the most out of your 4-6 years, you want to see everything you can see, and actually be the surgeon, not the retractor. Go somewhere that allows the resident to perform surgery, not somewhere that prides themselves on name recognition.

 

[buddy21]

While this is a very controversial question. I think it is easy to separate the 1st tier programs from the rest. I think the first tier programs are the ones with the strongest faculty base, and have produced the leaders of OMS. In my opinion these are the 1st tier programs. Residents in these programs have the opportunity to cut with the top OMS in the world, and have the widest scope of training.

Oregon (Dierks, Assael, Bell, Myall, Potter all in 1 program)
Parkland (The program that produced Who's Who in OMFS--i.e., Turvey and Fonseca)
Maryland (Ord and a strong team of young fellowship trained attendings)
North Carolina (Tucker and Bailey)
MGH/Harvard (Kaban, Dodson, Padwa, 2 years of Harvard Gen Surg etc...)
LSU-NO (Block, Kent, etc...)
LSU-Shreveport (1 word, Ghali)
Alabama (Waite, Holmes, etc...)
Pittsburgh (Ochs and Costello)
UCSF (Pogrel and a strong team of young fellowship trained attendings)
Kentucky (Van Sikel, Haug)

you should probably get the names of the surgeons right if you are going to write anything about them...i believe you are referring to Turvey and Blakey at UNC

 

[LSU-Cowboy]

Tucker IS a part-time attending at UNC and former Chairman....and one of the leaders in Orthognathics....

 

[Guy Smiley]

Tucker IS a part-time attending at UNC and former Chairman....and one of the leaders in Orthognathics....

Tucker isn't at UNC anymore. Tucker has the LSU NO residents rotate through his practice as 5th years.

 

[Xigris14]

You say Jax, VCU, Miami. Top tier I think not. Cant say too much about VCU, just dont know anything nor have heard anything good, so cant see why top tier. Miami and jax, if you like trauma and path/recon then maybe but anything else in OMFS forget about it.

 

[InMyCrossHairs]

You say Jax, VCU, Miami. Top tier I think not. Cant say too much about VCU, just dont know anything nor have heard anything good, so cant see why top tier. Miami and jax, if you like trauma and path/recon then maybe but anything else in OMFS forget about it.

Obviously you have a Florida connection. And while I have never spent a day as a resident at either Miami or Jax, I know these are solid programs. Yeah, they probably dont pride themselves on dentoalveolar but their exposure is adequate. But either way, your post reinforces my point, there is no perfect program for everyone.

But I still contend, if you are properly trained in trauma, path, re-con, craniofacial and if you can get it, cosmetics, you should have excellent surgical skill.

 

[BrownieGirl]

Just to set the record straight UNC has Turvey (chairman), Fonseca, and Blakey (program director) among others, but not Tucker who is now in private practice in Charlottle.

 

[Xigris14]

No florida connection but thanks.
Everyone knows there is no one great program that has everything with the perfect scope. Your always going to have too much trauma or too much path.....Maybe too much attending operating so only the cheif and attending operate.. that sucks for the junior and that kind of program you dont cut till cheif year...Or maybe a fellow does the cases you want to do such as those programs with fellows ie. Jax/Miami to name a few. So my point does agree with your to an extent. It is in the eye of the beholder. You might be 90% happy but not 100 and you may never be 100 despite your #1 tier system which I think is full of crap. Because everyone has their own tierr system and trust me I had the opportunity to rank Parkland, UNC for example and loved other programs not on this tier system more than the others.
And I disagree with your statement that if you do enough path and trauma your skills should be fine regardless. I believe you can not substitute otho surg, TMJ surg, cosmetics skills and say well I do big trauma cases and take bone from the leg and bring it to the mandible, then I can do anything bc my skills are good. Wrong. You obviously are a young resident or a student and have not done ortho surg, tmj, or cosmetics to understand that statement. Nothing can substitute other than repetitive surgical treatment planning of those cases and practice as a resident. I am not relying on my trauma skills or path recon skills to substitute my skills for the full scope of OMFS. Thats why I am where I am and choose it for that main reason and not bc of your silly tier system

 

[servitup]

"Top tier" is non-existent. I ranked several of those programs in the bottom half of my rank list. Go to the program that fits you the best.

 

[LSU-Cowboy]

Tucker isn't at UNC anymore. Tucker has the LSU NO residents rotate through his practice as 5th years.

You are correct. He isn't at UNC anymore. I misspoke when I said he was an attending at UNC. Any, yes, LSU NO residents rotate through his private practice....I think I would know this as I am an upper level resident at LSU New Orleans.

 

[InMyCrossHairs]

#1 No florida connection but thanks.

#2 You might be 90% happy but not 100 and you may never be 100 despite your #1 tier system which I think is full of crap.

#3 Because everyone has their own tierr system and trust me I had the opportunity to rank Parkland, UNC for example and loved other programs not on this tier system more than the others.

#4 And I disagree with your statement that if you do enough path and trauma your skills should be fine regardless. I believe you can not substitute otho surg, TMJ surg, cosmetics skills and say well I do big trauma cases and take bone from the leg and bring it to the mandible, then I can do anything bc my skills are good. Wrong. You obviously are a young resident or a student and have not done ortho surg, tmj, or cosmetics to understand that statement. Nothing can substitute other than repetitive surgical treatment planning of those cases and practice as a resident. I am not relying on my trauma skills or path recon skills to substitute my skills for the full scope of OMFS. Thats why I am where I am and choose it for that main reason and not bc of your silly tier system

#1. My mistake, i assumed that with you posting UF interview dates, and finding excerpts by previous residents at UF, and the fact that everyone of your posts is in some way associated with Florida Programs, that maybe you had a connection.

#2 The whole point of my intial post is that the thought of tiering programs is ******ed. And if you do, as the original poster did, have reasons other than naming faculty

#3. Good for you getting into the program you wanted to, and that you had the opportunity to rank Parkland and UNC, who didnt.

#4. I never indicated you can rely on path/trauma solely for full scope OMFS (I also said craniofacial and plastics). I stated that you will have good surgical skill. And somebody who is well trained in those will have good surgical skill. And once again, it is not my tier system.

#5. Good Luck with your fellowshsip training.

 

[Xigris14]

not doing a fellowship. Currently in reidency doing full scope. No need for fellowship.