On the job liability for police vs. doctors

[PromisingCapita]

Police officers rarely, if ever, get charged by the district attorney when they accidentally shoot someone on the job. This is because the public understands how hard and dangerous it is for the brave men and women who patrol our streets and sometimes mistakes do happen. For instance, for the police officer who shot the guy resisting arrest at a Oakland BART station, it is highly unlikely he will ever be charged no matter what video evidence there is. The video might show the officer shooting the guy in the back while he was lying on the ground, but since the public understands the pressure an officer faces on the job it is understandable. The anger and frustration coursing through the officer only means that he is human and we empathize with the officer's decision to pull the trigger.

Likewise, why can't doctors also get this type of break? The medical profession is very hard and demanding and full of pressure. In addition, many doctors are sleep deprived from working so hard. Shouldn't doctors get immunity from malpractice lawsuits?

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[edfig99]

no. if a doctor commits true malpractice, s/he needs to be held accountable.

 

[deleted74029]

no. if a doctor commits true malpractice, s/he needs to be held accountable.

What do you consider true malpractice?

 

[45408]

Shouldn't doctors get immunity from malpractice lawsuits?

No, because you'd see a surge in malpractice. I think lawsuits are excessive in this country, but immunity would be ridiculous.

 

[edfig99]

What do you consider true malpractice?

i don't define malpractice -- state laws and ultimately juries do. but generally, it's a negligent act that results in an injury to the patient and deviates from accepted standards of care. i'm not a lawyer so i'm sure there are other nuances and degrees/types of med mal.

 

[Forthegood]

Serious malpractice is seriously screwing up. Don't act like you can't think of a thousand different examples. We are not talking minor mistakes here, but gross negligence.

This is not the problem. Idiots being sued for being idiots is natural and a good thing. What sucks are the physicians getting sued for nothing. Simplifications and metaphors are all crap for this, it's all gray area.

Negligence is a whole nother can of worms. You should not get in the mind-set of always taking the doctors side just because they are a doctor. You'll be a doctor too soon, and you'll probably agree that some of your classmates are idiots, and you'll probably witness a hundred mistakes, but hopefully they will not be negligent.

And the police officer thing is terrible. That's why it gets so much attention and also why you are bringing this up in the first place. You do not want medicine to be "just as unaccountable" as anything else (ie. police), that is a frightening argument.

 

[cbrons]

There are more politics behind what happens to police officers. Usually this doesn't swing in their favor.

 

[pseudoknot]

1. You are comparing civil and criminal cases, which is inappropriate because the standards of proof are much higher in criminal cases, and the nature of the offenses are different.

2. Police officers and departments are frequently sued civilly for their actions. One big difference is that officers usually have less money than physicians, so a civil suit is more likely to be targeted at the department (deeper pocket).

3. Doctors are virtually never prosecuted criminally for actions in the course of patient care. Yes, it's happened, but it's far more common for cops.

4. I think it's actually pretty likely that the BART officer will be charged.

5. I think the public is far more sympathetic to doctors than police officers.

6. No, of course doctors shouldn't be immune to malpractice claims. Everyone needs to be accountable for their actions at some point.

 

[Kaustikos]

You're comparing

Doctors to

















































































Police officers.

Apples to Oranges

 

[deleted74029]

Apples to Oranges

Anyone played this game? It's awesome.

 

[PromisingCapita]

1. You are comparing civil and criminal cases, which is inappropriate because the standards of proof are much higher in criminal cases, and the nature of the offenses are different.

2. Police officers and departments are frequently sued civilly for their actions. One big difference is that officers usually have less money than physicians, so a civil suit is more likely to be targeted at the department (deeper pocket).

3. Doctors are virtually never prosecuted criminally for actions in the course of patient care. Yes, it's happened, but it's far more common for cops.

4. I think it's actually pretty likely that the BART officer will be charged.

5. I think the public is far more sympathetic to doctors than police officers.

6. No, of course doctors shouldn't be immune to malpractice claims. Everyone needs to be accountable for their actions at some point.

No police officer in Alameda county has ever been charged for a fatal shooting before. Ever. For example, there was one officer who shot an unarmed person in the back of the head while he was running away. The case has been "pending" for quite some number of years now. It makes sense too because the person running away could have been running to a gun shop or something. You never know.

You might have critics who are against this type of police immunity, but at the end of the day you'll find that the majority of citizens in America support the police and their actions no matter what they do. Law enforcement is a difficult job and sometimes hard decisions need to be made.

Doctors also have a hard job, and should be forgiven for any mistakes just like the police. If a patient doesn't like that, maybe he or she shouldn't go to a doctor. It's not like doctors are forcing patients to be treated. There are always risks involved and when you agree to go under the scalpel you should agree to whatever may happen good or bad. Just my two cents.

 

[chiz2kul]

Police officers rarely, if ever, get charged by the district attorney when they accidentally shoot someone on the job. This is because the public understands how hard and dangerous it is for the brave men and women who patrol our streets and sometimes mistakes do happen. For instance, for the police officer who shot the guy resisting arrest at a Oakland BART station, it is highly unlikely he will ever be charged no matter what video evidence there is. The video might show the officer shooting the guy in the back while he was lying on the ground, but since the public understands the pressure an officer faces on the job it is understandable. The anger and frustration coursing through the officer only means that he is human and we empathize with the officer's decision to pull the trigger.

Likewise, why can't doctors also get this type of break? The medical profession is very hard and demanding and full of pressure. In addition, many doctors are sleep deprived from working so hard. Shouldn't doctors get immunity from malpractice lawsuits?

Ok, first off like everyone says, you cant compare both cases.
Both your assumptions and subsequent conclusions about the police officers actions and the so called publics response to it are extremely flawed and biased.
Sometimes I wonder how pre-meds think.

 

[Nanon]

Police officers rarely, if ever, get charged by the district attorney when they accidentally shoot someone on the job. This is because the public understands how hard and dangerous it is for the brave men and women who patrol our streets and sometimes mistakes do happen. For instance, for the police officer who shot the guy resisting arrest at a Oakland BART station, it is highly unlikely he will ever be charged no matter what video evidence there is. The video might show the officer shooting the guy in the back while he was lying on the ground, but since the public understands the pressure an officer faces on the job it is understandable. The anger and frustration coursing through the officer only means that he is human and we empathize with the officer's decision to pull the trigger.

Likewise, why can't doctors also get this type of break? The medical profession is very hard and demanding and full of pressure. In addition, many doctors are sleep deprived from working so hard. Shouldn't doctors get immunity from malpractice lawsuits?

As a tax-paying homeowner in Alameda Co., I can tell you that I do not empathize with the police officer in question. Hundreds of people protesting in the streets of Oakland do not empathize, nor do most of my neighbors, coworkers and friends. What he did was murder. I'm betting that the police officer does get charged and does some time - particularly now that he's not a police officer anymore. (He resigned). Otherwise, I see the district attorney's head rolling down Broadway - metaphorically speaking.

As to doctors being cut slack - are you kidding me? Doctors kill hundreds of patients a year out of sheer negligence and stupidity, and yet not too many of these cases make it to an actual "sentinel event" status, let alone a lawsuit... or charges. People aren't usually whipping out their cell phone cameras during surgery, you know.

Why do I bother...

 

[niranjan162]

How come those consent forms dont have anything about lawsuits in them?

 

[Compass]

Providing lenience for malpractice encourages lenience in standard of care. That is UNACCEPTABLE.

 

[PromisingCapita]

As a tax-paying homeowner in Alameda Co., I can tell you that I do not empathize with the police officer in question. Hundreds of people protesting in the streets of Oakland do not empathize, nor do most of my neighbors, coworkers and friends. What he did was murder. I'm betting that the police officer does get charged and does some time - particularly now that he's not a police officer anymore. (He resigned). Otherwise, I see the district attorney's head rolling down Broadway - metaphorically speaking.

As to doctors being cut slack - are you kidding me? Doctors kill hundreds of patients a year out of sheer negligence and stupidity, and yet not too many of these cases make it to an actual "sentinel event" status, let alone a lawsuit... or charges. People aren't usually whipping out their cell phone cameras during surgery, you know.

Why do I bother...

No police officer in Alameda county has ever been charged for shooting someone no matter what the circumstance because the officers and the DA have a close working relationship. I guarantee you that Officer Mehserle will NOT be charged criminally. The riots of all those misguided people has already died down. People will continue to protest in smaller numbers, the News agencies will gradually forget about the story when it generates no new interest, and finally the officer will walk away scotch free.

It has happened this way in virtually all the police "brutality" cases from the NY case to the LA case to every case no matter how strong people thought the "evidence" was. The officer in question always walks away. And rightfully so.

 

[Nanon]

:troll:

 

[nick_carraway]

No police officer in Alameda county has ever been charged for shooting someone no matter what the circumstance because the officers and the DA have a close working relationship. I guarantee you that Officer Mehserle will NOT be charged criminally. The riots of all those misguided people has already died down. People will continue to protest in smaller numbers, the News agencies will gradually forget about the story when it generates no new interest, and finally the officer will walk away scotch free.

It has happened this way in virtually all the police "brutality" cases from the NY case to the LA case to every case no matter how strong people thought the "evidence" was. The officer in question always walks away. And rightfully so.

Virtually all. The Rodney King incident led to the criminal prosecution of a few of the officers involved due to the nature of their misconduct and the outrage of the community. See this link for how many other recent cases were not dismissed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cases_of_police_brutality

Each instance of perceived police brutality is unique and this recent shooting of a restrained, cooperative man in the BART station is unique in that the officers involved were shocked by what Mehserle did and because the victim was already restrained face down by three officers. Bear in mind also, that no other recent case has had so many observers--an entire BART train full of onlookers.

This BART situation is unique also in that the mayor of Oakland is outraged by the incident as well and has said that the Oakland police department will take over the investigation if BART continues to slow it down.

Federal prosecutors and the DA are already upset that Mehserle has refused to give statements to investigators, whereas police officers are typically cooperative with investigations.

I think that the charges will be less severe than what they'd be if a civilian shot someone in the same way, but I have no doubt that there will be criminal charges of one sort or the other.

 

[PromisingCapita]

Virtually all. The Rodney King incident led to the criminal prosecution of a few of the officers involved due to the nature of their misconduct and the outrage of the community. See this link for how many other recent cases were not dismissed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cases_of_police_brutality

Each instance of perceived police brutality is unique and this recent shooting of a restrained, cooperative man in the BART station is unique in that the officers involved were shocked by what Mehserle did and because the victim was already restrained face down by three officers. Bear in mind also, that no other recent case has had so many observers--an entire BART train full of onlookers.

This BART situation is unique also in that the mayor of Oakland is outraged by the incident as well and has said that the Oakland police department will take over the investigation if BART continues to slow it down.

Federal prosecutors and the DA are already upset that Mehserle has refused to give statements to investigators, whereas police officers are typically cooperative with investigations.

I think that the charges will be less severe than what they'd be if a civilian shot someone in the same way, but I have no doubt that there will be criminal charges of one sort or the other.

If I remember correctly, the officers were charged by a raically biased jury in Los Angeles. The officers appealed and asked for a change of venue which was granted in a far away suburb where there were no racial biases. Then the officers won their appeal and walked away scotch free. The justice system works.

 

[nick_carraway]

If I remember correctly, the officers were charged by a raically biased jury in Los Angeles. The officers appealed and asked for a change of venue which was granted in a far away suburb where there were no racial biases. Then the officers won their appeal and walked away scotch free. The justice system works.

You'd be right except for the fact that the second jury did not acquit all of the officers of their criminal charges. One was sentenced by that jury and later, during a federal trial, a second officer was also sentenced to prison.

 

[rama kandra]

you ever see training day?

 

[PromisingCapita]

You'd be right except for the fact that the second jury did not acquit all of the officers of their criminal charges. One was sentenced by that jury and later, during a federal trial, a second officer was also sentenced to prison.

Hmm seems that you are right. It's a shame that some of the officers had to face punishment. They were doing a service to society by beating up on the scumbags in the street especially Rodney King. We need to get tough on criminals so that they don't hurt law abiding civilians. It's just like the war on terror. Our brave armed forces fight the enemy on their own ground so that we don't have to fight them here. Our brave police officers beat and kill the criminals so that ordinary civilians do not have to face them.

 

[nick_carraway]

Hmm seems that you are right. It's a shame that some of the officers had to face punishment. They were doing a service to society by beating up on the scumbags in the street especially Rodney King. We need to get tough on criminals so that they don't hurt law abiding civilians. It's just like the war on terror. Our brave armed forces fight the enemy on their own ground so that we don't have to fight them here. Our brave police officers beat and kill the criminals so that ordinary civilians do not have to face them.

Ah non sequiturs. Gotta love em.