Once again: MD/DO vs. PA

[DinoSaysRawr]

So, I realize that this has been debated, probably ad nauseum on SDN, but I was hoping to get some input as to my own personal situation. I'm about to turn 22 and I'll probably be 24 when I graduate (5 years in undergrad). I have a decent cGPA: 3.5, and a good sGPA: 3.75. I recently went abroad for a few weeks to the UK and Europe and loved it. I could see myself living in the UK, well, as of right now I could. I'm single right now, but I would like to have a family some day. I'm not sure how I feel about working under the boss vs. being the boss; I've done both before, and I could see myself doing either one.

So, I'll probably end up waiting to see whether or not my MCAT scores will allow me into med school, but for the time being, does anyone have any advice to offer? I mean, I've read that PAs work less, still make pretty good pay, can swap specialties, come out with less debt generally, and have time for family. I would love to be able to make decent money, have a family, and still do some traveling (as I'm sure all of us would lol). Any help is greatly appreciated.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[primadonna22274]

Under 25 and want to live/work abroad someday? Go to med school, preferably MD. Fewer headaches.
Never worked less as a PA--and lateral mobility is nice, but it's being chipped away with added specialty certifications etc.
I will make twice to three times as a physician what I made as a PA for equivalent hours worked. Or if I am smarter I will work less (eventually).

 

[Doctor Strange]

I'm an intern in the trauma department and our PAs work just as many hours as the physicians.

 

[AlPacino]

So, I realize that this has been debated, probably ad nauseum on SDN, but I was hoping to get some input as to my own personal situation. I'm about to turn 22 and I'll probably be 24 when I graduate (5 years in undergrad). I have a decent cGPA: 3.5, and a good sGPA: 3.75. I recently went abroad for a few weeks to the UK and Europe and loved it. I could see myself living in the UK, well, as of right now I could. I'm single right now, but I would like to have a family some day. I'm not sure how I feel about working under the boss vs. being the boss I've done both before, and I could see myself doing either one.

So, I'll probably end up waiting to see whether or not my MCAT scores will allow me into med school, but for the time being, does anyone have any advice to offer? I mean, I've read that PAs work less, still make pretty good pay, can swap specialties, come out with less debt generally, and have time for family. I would love to be able to make decent money, have a family, and still do some traveling (as I'm sure all of us would lol). Any help is greatly appreciated.

With time, one of those choices will cross itself out. I would go after my MD. PA is still a great career, but you do not have the autonomy of an MD.

 

[rubisco88]

I vote MD/DO. For most PA programs you have to have an extensive amount of clinical experience to get accepted. I'm pretty sure a lot more hours than applying MD/DO. I think most programs have requirements for that. Both routes are time consuming, so you should choose the one in which you will have more freedom and the ability to be the primary decision maker. And of course, getting paid more is always a plus, especially if the hours are as long as that of a PA.

 

[RecycleRinsed]

So, I realize that this has been debated, probably ad nauseum on SDN, but I was hoping to get some input as to my own personal situation. I'm about to turn 22 and I'll probably be 24 when I graduate (5 years in undergrad). I have a decent cGPA: 3.5, and a good sGPA: 3.75. I recently went abroad for a few weeks to the UK and Europe and loved it. I could see myself living in the UK, well, as of right now I could. I'm single right now, but I would like to have a family some day. I'm not sure how I feel about working under the boss vs. being the boss; I've done both before, and I could see myself doing either one.

So, I'll probably end up waiting to see whether or not my MCAT scores will allow me into med school, but for the time being, does anyone have any advice to offer? I mean, I've read that PAs work less, still make pretty good pay, can swap specialties, come out with less debt generally, and have time for family. I would love to be able to make decent money, have a family, and still do some traveling (as I'm sure all of us would lol). Any help is greatly appreciated.

Think about autonomy. If you MUST be the boss, be an MD. If you don't mind not calling all the shots, go the PA route.

 

[DinoSaysRawr]

Thanks everyone.

 

[DavetheMD]

Have you shadowed to get first hand opinions from some practitioners?

 

[DinoSaysRawr]

Have you shadowed to get first hand opinions from some practitioners?

I, personally haven't yet, but from friends who have, the PAs say that they love it. I've only shadowed a surgeon, but he never commented on his overall happiness. He was a busy guy, but had a beautiful wife, two kids, and seemed to make some serious bank.

 

[Charles Darwin]

You're asking a bunch of people who are pursuing MDs whether the better career choice is an MD or a PA. What kind of responses were you expecting?

 

[MedPR]

I, personally haven't yet, but from friends who have, the PAs say that they love it. I've only shadowed a surgeon, but he never commented on his overall happiness. He was a busy guy, but had a beautiful wife, two kids, and seemed to make some serious bank.

Everyone will claim they love their job just to avoid the embarrassment of not achieving the next highest level (PA vs MD/DO).

 

[DinoSaysRawr]

You're asking a bunch of people who are pursuing MDs whether the better career choice is an MD or a PA. What kind of responses were you expecting?

Really I was hoping for others who have struggled with the same decision.

 

[DrMediterranean]

I am an MD student. My girlfriend is a PA. She didn't want to become a physician because the length of training is much, much longer and she wanted to marry and have children at an earlier age. She also went this route because she loves the options she has -- she can work how much she wants in a variety of settings and fields. Ultimately, she carries less responsibility than a physician and she appreciates this.

While I agree that if you want to become the ultimate boss at the very top you should go MD/DO, I want to mention that my girlfriend has amazing autonomy in her current position. She is a hospitalist and works for a company that gets outsourced by hospitals. She does not work directly for the hospital (which also happens to be a large academic teaching hospital). She works in a group with other hospitalists who are either physicians, PAs, or NPs. She basically treats and bills for her own patients in the hospital and does not really work directly with physicians, she's kind of on her own more or less - almost completely independent. Every so often there's a specific patient that she does not treat because of how complicated the medical issues are and this patient is seen by a physician. This hospitalist company is an exception to the way PAs are typically utilized, if she were to work directly for the hospital at another local hospital that she also received a job offer from, she would not be doing 50% of what she is doing now. Clearly this is atypical, but it's good to know because there are a few positions in the PA world where you can have near complete autonomy. Also, I would say another thing that contributes to this is that the physicians she works with are very cool and allow her this type of autonomy. By the way, there are midlevels in another group (who are still under the same umbrella hospitalist company) who make $300k a year.

 

[neuro nephrons]

to be honest, it is probably a bit late in the game to pursue a PA degree....I've heard that PA schools want tons more hours than MD

 

[SpecterGT260]

to be honest, it is probably a bit late in the game to pursue a PA degree....I've heard that PA schools want tons more hours than MD

hours of what?

 

[235788]

just go podiatry

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

just go podiatry

Well that was out in left field.

 

[MedPR]

hours of what?

I think PA schools require a ton of clinical hours (like 2000) for admittance.

Edit: As an example, Wake Forest requires 1000 hours or 6 months experience.

http://www.wakehealth.edu/School/Ph...gram/Admission-Requirements.htm?LangType=1033

Clinical Experience that includes direct patient care is required. In order to be competitive, an applicant should have a minimum of six months full-time healthcare employment or 1,000 hours of hands-on patient care experience. Applicants must demonstrate evidence of some patient care experience prior to submitting the CASPA application, but should complete 1,000 hours of hands-on patient care by the time of matriculation. Applicants accepted in the last admission cycle had direct patient care experience ranging from 1000 hours to 25,000 hours.
Preference is given to applicants having experience that requires a period of training and results in direct (hands-on) patient care. Examples include, but are not limited to: EMT, Paramedic, Nurse, Medical Assistant, CNA, ER Tech, Physical Therapy Aide, Phlebotomist, etc. Experiences such as "shadowing", laboratory testing with no patient contact, non-clinical research, student experience, life guard, or clerical work are not accepted as clinical hours.

 

[235788]

I think PA schools require a ton of clinical hours (like 2000) for admittance.

some, not all.


The more modern ones don't give a crap and will take you following a 4-year bachelors. You just need to do a lot of the same thing that you would if you were applying med (volutneer/research/mcat -- at least the one at my home institution)


But I do know of some of hte more traditional ones that basically want people who have worked in the field doing lesser jobs

 

[Xenops]

OP, since you want to work in the UK, a big thing to consider how PA's are treated over there vs. here in the U.S. Same with DO. France I know accepts DO's as full-fledged physicians, but Japan does not. Japan (my country of interest) also does not have mid-level care providers like we have. MD's, however, are universal.

So research your country of interest, and go from there. For me to work medicine in Japan, it's MD where all options are available, or BSN were I would have few options and be treated like dirt.

 

[K M R]

While I agree that if you want to become the ultimate boss at the very top you should go MD/DO, I want to mention that my girlfriend has amazing autonomy in her current position. She is a hospitalist and works for a company that gets outsourced by hospitals. She does not work directly for the hospital (which also happens to be a large academic teaching hospital). She works in a group with other hospitalists who are either physicians, PAs, or NPs. She basically treats and bills for her own patients in the hospital and does not really work directly with physicians, she's kind of on her own more or less - almost completely independent. Every so often there's a specific patient that she does not treat because of how complicated the medical issues are and this patient is seen by a physician. This hospitalist company is an exception to the way PAs are typically utilized, if she were to work directly for the hospital at another local hospital that she also received a job offer from, she would not be doing 50% of what she is doing now. Clearly this is atypical, but it's good to know because there are a few positions in the PA world where you can have near complete autonomy. Also, I would say another thing that contributes to this is that the physicians she works with are very cool and allow her this type of autonomy. By the way, there are midlevels in another group (who are still under the same umbrella hospitalist company) who make $300k a year.

 

[DinoSaysRawr]

OP, since you want to work in the UK, a big thing to consider how PA's are treated over there vs. here in the U.S. Same with DO. France I know accepts DO's as full-fledged physicians, but Japan does not. Japan (my country of interest) also does not have mid-level care providers like we have. MD's, however, are universal.

So research your country of interest, and go from there. For me to work medicine in Japan, it's MD where all options are available, or BSN were I would have few options and be treated like dirt.

I think this is a great point, and it's one of my major considerations. PAs are just now being introduced into the NHS, and there are only three or four universities that offer the program. Thanks for reiterating it though. I'll definitely be looking into this further.

 

[octupus]

Don't put too much weight on working in the UK when evaluating your decisions (do double check the info for accuracy though- hope this was helpful)

Tier 1 - General Skilled Migration visa

The Tier 1 - General Skilled Migration visa allows non-EU citizens without a job offer to live and work in the UK. Therefore, registered doctors, dentists and nurses without a job offer should use this UK immigration option.

However As of 5 April, 2011, a UK immigration cap was put into effect and the Tier 1 (General) skilled visa programme was closed. As a result, the only remaining visa for independent skilled migrants to apply for is the Tier 1 (Exceptional Talent) visa. Unfortunately, this visa is all but impossible to obtain and has been capped at being for just 1,000 people a year.