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Headshaking
One word to describe ABFAS
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What I would give to be able to ask "where does it hurt?"
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I get why people don't pass...
My problem with the RRA CBPS was that too many of the case studies had too complex of a workup or treatment (i.e. staged) for what the system would allow you to input. That probably doesn't make sense to those who haven't taken it but for everyone who did it yesterday, it should. I'm just hoping it means that they really don't expect much from the test taker in terms of the diagnosis and treatment answers they give...
My problem with everything else was "least" and "best," again in complex pathology that 3 different board certified "foot and ankle surgeons" would give you 3 different answers if you asked.
My problem with the RRA CBPS was that too many of the case studies had too complex of a workup or treatment (i.e. staged) for what the system would allow you to input. That probably doesn't make sense to those who haven't taken it but for everyone who did it yesterday, it should. I'm just hoping it means that they really don't expect much from the test taker in terms of the diagnosis and treatment answers they give...
My problem with everything else was "least" and "best," again in complex pathology that 3 different board certified "foot and ankle surgeons" would give you 3 different answers if you asked.
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I'm not sure what's worse. What you've just said, or only allowing 10 selections for physical exam based on the 1-2 sentences of a vague problems, and having half of your choices wasted because "be more specific." You lose just as many points for not picking a pertinent exam as you do a selecting a wrong treatment it seems.
It's just a piss poor system all the way around. Not user friendly. Not reflective at all of someone's knowledge or ability as a physician or surgeon.
Oh, should we also mention the puzzling decision to move it up 2 months without any explanation?
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I wonder why every year every podiatrist complains about every exam that we have to get through and yet they always still seem to be poorly made. I mean, don't some of these people go on to work with these organizations or write the questions or things like that. If everybody sees the flaws, how have they not been addressed? I hope that doesn't come off as talking smack, it just seems like the logical progression would be that some people who had to sit for licensing or certifying exams would go on to be involved in the process, so I'm really trying to understand where the disconnect is...
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I doubt anyone here has been asked to write exam questions...
Haim Feldman went off on some stuff that was a total non issue for anyone who bothered to take a single in training exam or prepared in any way for the CBPS. You shouldn't have had more than 1 of your physical exam selections wasted when they tell you to "be more specific." You knew they were going to if you picked "neuro exam" or "musculoskeletal exam." You also should have scrolled through the exam, imaging, labs, and treatment options days before you sat down for the exam. That way you had an idea of how things were labeled on the real thing. But I get why people are frustrated with the exam. I was.
If my math is even remotely close, the ABFAS gets almost $1 mil in registration fees and exam fees every year from new grads alone. Id be curious to see a breakdown of how that's spent...
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I took the in-training all three years. I took the practice tests on the ABFAS website. I looked through the lists beforehand. I printed out a list of all the possible choices and read through them.
But don't scoff it off as some non-issue, because it was still an issue for myself and many people I know, all of whom practiced sufficiently beforehand.
I obviously knew not to pick the very broad exams listed from the practices, such as the ones you've listed. But why are these things even options if its just going to tell us to be more specific?
The major problem is there's no consistency on a case by case basis when we'll get the info we asked for, or when it will say "be more specific."
For example "vitals." Most of the cases it gives you everything, the other half it says be more specific. Wasted pick. Then you lose another choice or two checking the vitals you want.
Pedal Pulses. 90% it gives you both the DP and the PT. But the time it doesn't is incredibly frustrating.
They really need to use those millions of dollars and hire some programmers and UX designers to overhaul the CBPS.
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I agree with all the sentiments so far. The CBPS is just terribly put together. Why in the world they have multiple versions of the exact same exam/treatment is beyond me. Also, it makes no sense for a "be more specific" to count as one of your 10 choices.
The point where I was about to smash the computer screen was the RRA case with the torn tendon. How is there an option for repair of every tendon in the foot EXCEPT the PL!?
Regardless of whether I pass or fail, something needs to be done to improve that test. As already said, it is a horrible representation of someone's actual diagnostic and treatment skills.
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I was an examiner for the old "oral" exam for about 12 years. The beauty of that set up was it allowed a candidate to realize he or she made a mistake and it allowed the candidate to correct the error even if that question had passed. Many times they were so nervous, they had a brain fart and then the correct answer popped into their head prior to the end of the alotted time. It allowed for a more realistic clinical exam, allowing an interaction between the examiner and candidate.
The negative was the variance between examiners, which sometimes led to inconsistency and a little too much subjectivity. Although examiners were always evaluated by having a committee member in the room actually grading the examiner.
I can tell you as a matter of fact, that many of the big whigs with major attitude who took the exam years ago and have made it difficult for the young bloods, wouldn't have a chance of passing the present exam.
The negative was the variance between examiners, which sometimes led to inconsistency and a little too much subjectivity. Although examiners were always evaluated by having a committee member in the room actually grading the examiner.
I can tell you as a matter of fact, that many of the big whigs with major attitude who took the exam years ago and have made it difficult for the young bloods, wouldn't have a chance of passing the present exam.
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I think another huge problem is the clandestine scoring of the the exam. Even in the ABFAS literature, practice CBPS tests, and the little video they put together explaining the test, never do they actually say "this is how we score the test."
It's criminal for what the test costs that those taking it don't even know what it takes to pass it!
Unfortunately, it fits so perfectly with how backwards some things are in the profession. I'm sure my fellow graduating residents will agree that the profession (read established practitioners) seems to do everything it can to screw over or take advantage of the young pups.
It's criminal for what the test costs that those taking it don't even know what it takes to pass it!
Unfortunately, it fits so perfectly with how backwards some things are in the profession. I'm sure my fellow graduating residents will agree that the profession (read established practitioners) seems to do everything it can to screw over or take advantage of the young pups.
D
dyk343
It was a very difficult exam. Especially the forefoot multiple choice portion. I could throw out 1-2 options and then had to flat out guess on a significant amount of questions. I would not be surprised if I failed that portion of the exam. I felt the rearfoot portion was fairly easy when compared to the forefoot portion.
I also studied quite a bit for this exam. I'm better for it but it did not help me at all on exam day. You simply can not study for this exam.
I also studied quite a bit for this exam. I'm better for it but it did not help me at all on exam day. You simply can not study for this exam.
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I agree. I studied way more for this exam than any of the other boards exams, and I still walked out feeling like all that studying maybe got me 4-5 questions.
It was tough.
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All this to say I have no idea how I did. Might have passed it all/failed it all/mix. I felt like RRA didactic ended up being the hardest for me. I like to tell myself that it was part of the "adaptive" nature of the test but who knows. Maybe I didn't feel as bad about CBPS because I had already resigned that portion of the test to be frustrating. It bothers me that I felt I could have done a lot better by having that portion be an oral exam because I could have shown I'm not an idiot.
Might have felt great about a section only to end up failing it.
I'll attempt to spend the next "6-8 weeks" in blissful ignorance.
Might have felt great about a section only to end up failing it.
I'll attempt to spend the next "6-8 weeks" in blissful ignorance.
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As a former examiner I have one pet peeve. There is no "forefoot" exam. It is simply foot.
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In regards to the grading system and pilot questions:
We would need to know if they are giving everyone "freebie" points for the pilot questions and continuing the grading from there. Or..... will the exam be graded out of a possible 72 questions after the (example) 8 pilots questions are thrown out. The former would help everyone and is more "fair" as well as being more common in the classroom setting. I would be afraid I may have actually answered correctly on a majority of the pilots while choosing incorrectly on the accepted questions.
Also, I'm not sure they set a pass mark after everything has been graded. Considering the extremely low pass rates in the past.
Now, I'm not suggesting this thing should be watered down in order for any incompetent examinee to squeeze through but right now all I know is that I'm about $2K poorer & feel like I just studied in depth for the past few months with no feeling of reward.
Too many unknowns about this thing!
We would need to know if they are giving everyone "freebie" points for the pilot questions and continuing the grading from there. Or..... will the exam be graded out of a possible 72 questions after the (example) 8 pilots questions are thrown out. The former would help everyone and is more "fair" as well as being more common in the classroom setting. I would be afraid I may have actually answered correctly on a majority of the pilots while choosing incorrectly on the accepted questions.
Also, I'm not sure they set a pass mark after everything has been graded. Considering the extremely low pass rates in the past.
Now, I'm not suggesting this thing should be watered down in order for any incompetent examinee to squeeze through but right now all I know is that I'm about $2K poorer & feel like I just studied in depth for the past few months with no feeling of reward.
Too many unknowns about this thing!
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I felt the same way when I got an easy question and couldn't help but think I must have been screwing up to get this one.
I like your idea for modifying the test. It would make grading much more difficult and take longer but I would be willing to wait a longer period of time to be able to explain my thought process. It sure beats looking for their version of the treatment you want. Even though I practiced beforehand, I felt that some of the choices had changed by this version of the test compared to the practice ones and still found myself occasionally frantically looking for whatever they called what was in my head as the timer ticked along.
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The cost to take the exam is absurd. In the "old" days the exam was given one weekend a year in one location. Eligibilty exams (now called qualifying exams) and certification exams were held in a hotel a few minutes from O'Hare airport in Chicago. So in addition to test costs and a weekend away from the office and family, there was the cost of travel to Chicago, hotel costs and food costs.
Now that the exam is given at several locations, is computer based and requires fewer proctors, there is simply no reason for the ridiculous cost.
Now that the exam is given at several locations, is computer based and requires fewer proctors, there is simply no reason for the ridiculous cost.
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It's just another way for older podiatrists to bend us over and...rip us off. The American Board of Orthopaedic Surgery's qualifying exam is $1040...that's half the cost of ours. It's also a computer based written exam consisting of over 300 questions that you have around 8 hours to complete, so no more or less involved.
Podiatrists really are the worst
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I'm sure you'll pass but if you don't, not to worry -- I'm sure you can get a job as a pretend surgeon doing bunions and hammertoes somewhere.
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This is how it felt for me exactly. For part 1, part 2 or part 3 I always walked away feeling like I passed, but definitely did not have that feeling this time.
I studied for 2 months prior, went to one of the major test reviews that happened before the exam this year that comes with a study book, used BBTN, the Board Master software and still didn't feel prepared during the exam. Honestly looking back at the rearfoot didatic I really don't even know what I would have studied to be adequately prepared. I can't even look back and think "oh this was my weak point I will need to study that harder next time" because the questions were so seemingly random.
Thanks to the review course I got a few rearfoot and arthroplasty questions right, but they were so specific regarding a specific companies' model I wouldn't have even thought to study them otherwise. If your hospital/part of the country doesn't use that specific model it would have been totally foreign.
The practice board master website was helpful for getting a feel of the CBPS portion, but they said it's supposed to be harder than the exam so the actual exam would be easier. This was not the case, the actual exam was way more complex and required huge workups.
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Corporate influence in an exam is simply unacceptable. That's no different than expecting to know the small nuances between an Arthrex plate. synthes plate, Integra plate plate, Wright plate, etc.
Each surgeon has his or her own preference and it's not the specific brand, but as stated by Ankle Breaker, it should all be about technique and details of the actual procedure.
Using a specific brand in an exam is wrong on SO many levels.
Each surgeon has his or her own preference and it's not the specific brand, but as stated by Ankle Breaker, it should all be about technique and details of the actual procedure.
Using a specific brand in an exam is wrong on SO many levels.
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I read the PI manual, some random notes, and payed for BBTN, Board Vitals (foot and RRA), 3 of the Board Masters cases, and then did the 5 practice CBPS questions on the ABFAS website. I also did questions from orthobullets.
Looking back, I feel like I got more questions from board vitals than anything else. I actually knew the specific TAR question not because I had ever used that device, but because there was a question from board vitals testing the same information.
All said, I spent $660 on practice material. I'm certainly glad I didn't buy all the board masters cases because the interface was not identical to the actual CBPS and despite their advertising they did NOT give you the "points needed to pass". It simply gave the list of things applicable. Total waste of money IMO.
Looking back, I feel like I got more questions from board vitals than anything else. I actually knew the specific TAR question not because I had ever used that device, but because there was a question from board vitals testing the same information.
All said, I spent $660 on practice material. I'm certainly glad I didn't buy all the board masters cases because the interface was not identical to the actual CBPS and despite their advertising they did NOT give you the "points needed to pass". It simply gave the list of things applicable. Total waste of money IMO.
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I'm board certified by the ABFAS and I think it's ludicrous that now that there are mandatory 3 year residencies, they make obtaining board qualification so difficult. Certification is one thing, but after 3 years of residency, they need to make the exam more relevant and reasonable.
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That's interesting to hear form an established & ABFAS certified doc.
If the state & individual hospitals keep moving towards ABFAS requirements to operate I feel as if the amount of operative DPM's could really dwindle. However, I don't blame the state or hospitals for requiring credentialing. I just think the ABFAS itself may not be on the same page as the current 3-year residency grads. Not to sound bitter.
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I would also like to know what the pass/failure rate is which they won't disclose.....mmmmm......interesting. What are they trying to hide????
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As a diplomate of the ABFAS, I receive a newsletter (as do all in the ABFAS) which always has the board statistics. They publish the info annually and break it down to the foot exam and RRA exam, first time takers, pass/fail and other stats. They do not hide this info or keep it secret. The info is available.
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Yea, ExperiencedDPM is correct. If you look through the forum, stats have been posted for past ABFAS exams and will probably be posted for this one at some point. They do release that info.
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