Online Medical Schools, a new model of medical education?

SkipJunior

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In the future, will there ever be a LCME or COCA accredited medical school that offers all its pre-clinical coursework in an online format?

The reason I ask is because I've read in several different SDN threads about medical students preferring to go over the lectures by themselves at home instead of attending traditional lectures.

There is one medical school, the International University of Health Sciences, that offers an online format. Although the school's headquarters is in the Caribbean, their students spend all 4 years in the US. They complete the first 2 years at home, taking their classes in their pyjamas. They also have to do virtual simulations and meet a physician once a month during their pre-clinical years. They do the regular US clinical rotations during their 3rd and 4th years.

http://www.iuhs.edu/

If a no-name Carib school can do it, why not some US schools? The first step would be for state medical licensing boards to approve of online pre-clinical education.

The only problem I can think of are anatomy classes. IUHS does virtual anatomy simulations but I don't think that's as good as the real thing. Also, online pre-clinicals will clash with the PBL curriculum.

Anyway, I'm interested to find out what the SDN community feels about this new model of medical education.
 
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HoboCommander

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I think it's very doable. First 2 years of online instruction geared specifically for Step 1, then after Step 1 you would do all your rotations in the US. It's how a lot of medical students are already doing unofficially when they don't attend lecture. Tuition could be cut in half.
 

Afford

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I think it has to become popular for undergraduate colleges first before medical schools will think about it. There are online undergraduate colleges and distance learning classes, but they are not popular yet.
 

boltedbicorne

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I hope not. The online classes I took were a joke. Online lectures, and skype discussions can never replace real person interaction and group work. Computers can make a lot of things easier and better, but this isn't one of them.
 
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Goro

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Kinda hard to learn phlebotomy, do stitching, or do a vaginal exam on a standardized patient online.

This school sounds like the dictionary definition of "diploma mill".

In the future, will there ever be a LCME or COCA accredited medical school that offers all its pre-clinical coursework in an online format?

The reason I ask is because I've read in several different SDN threads about medical students preferring to go over the lectures by themselves at home instead of attending traditional lectures.

There is one medical school, the International University of Health Sciences, that offers an online format. Although the school's headquarters is in the Caribbean, their students spend all 4 years in the US. They complete the first 2 years at home, taking their classes in their pyjamas. They also have to do virtual simulations and meet a physician once a month during their pre-clinical years. They do the regular US clinical rotations during their 3rd and 4th years.

http://www.iuhs.edu/

If a no-name Carib school can do it, why not some US schools? The first step would be for state medical licensing boards to approve of online pre-clinical education.

The only problem I can think of are anatomy classes. IUHS does virtual anatomy simulations but I don't think that's as good as the real thing. Also, online pre-clinicals will clash with the PBL curriculum.

Anyway, I'm interested to find out what the SDN community feels about this new model of medical education.
 

boltedbicorne

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Kinda hard to learn phlebotomy, do stitching, or do a vaginal exam on a standardized patient online.

This school sounds like the dictionary definition of "diploma mill".
You hit the nail on the head there. I, for one, would be horrified to be seen by a doctor who got an online degree.
 

type12

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That site screams "I did not hire a web developer." God, so many UX offenses...

Anyway, I don't see why not, frankly. CME is conducted almost exclusively online; if not, it definitely has been the preferred method of education for physicians I've met. However, I think it shows there needs to be changes to premed before this is possible: the ability to learn and process material with limited guidance is key.

Obviously, the more hands-on experiences will take more time. Impossible to replicate online? Not necessarily. Anytime soon? Definitely not.
 

type12

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non-refundable application fee of US $150 must accompany this form. If all the information is not completed in full, the processing of your application may be delayed. Please mail the completed Application Form and include a copy of your Passport. If you do not have a Passport please include a copy of your birth certificate and a Government issued Photo ID as well as 4 Passport photos to: IUHS P.O. Box 1149 Hightstown, NJ 08520
http://www.iuhs.edu/contact/

CANADA, NEW JERSEY, and WEST INDES. This is a very MPD school.
 
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This is clearly a diploma mill. You can't get hands-on clinical experience on the net.
 

NickNaylor

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While preclinical knowledge as a general rule is very amenable to distance learning (look at how many students don't go to class), there's no way you'll be able to gain any sort of competency in physical exam skills without in-person training and practice. That simply isn't the kind of thing you can easily learn digitally or without feedback.
 

type12

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While preclinical knowledge as a general rule is very amenable to distance learning (look at how many students don't go to class), there's no way you'll be able to gain any sort of competency in physical exam skills without in-person training and practice. That simply isn't the kind of thing you can easily learn digitally or without feedback.
Says someone who hasn't used oculus rift. :p
 
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SkipJunior

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While preclinical knowledge as a general rule is very amenable to distance learning (look at how many students don't go to class), there's no way you'll be able to gain any sort of competency in physical exam skills without in-person training and practice. That simply isn't the kind of thing you can easily learn digitally or without feedback.
True, I agree with you. However, in this school (IUHS), the pre-clinical students do have to complete a certain number of hours with a physician every month where I presume they receive some in-person training and practice.

On a unrelated note, why do you seem to hate DO schools and DO students with such a passion? I gleaned this from reading your posts on previous threads. Does it make you feel better about yourself that you are a "superior MD" and not a "inferior DO"?
 
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type12

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On a unrelated note, why do you seem to hate DO schools and DO students with such a passion? I gleaned this from reading your posts on previous threads. Does it make you feel better about yourself that you are a "superior MD" and not a "inferior DO"?
What? Where did this all come from?
 
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What? Where did this all come from?
Nick Naylor bashed DOs in a previous thread I made and said he talked to a physician who said DOs are diluting the physician pool and alluded that they are sub-standard physicians because of the lower admission standards of the schools. I guess I'm still seething from it.
 
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Online education is the way to go pre clinically... I never go to class, I just watch lectures at 2x speed, it saves me alot of time. I think there should be some sort of in class room coursework for learning some basic skills before you begin clinics, maybe like a 1 month bootcamp where all you work on is history taking, physicals, suturing, phlebotomy. Honestly, it could work and I have had this idea about medical school myself.
 
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type12

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Online education is the way to go pre clinically... I never go to class, I just watch lectures at 2x speed, it saves me alot of time. I think there should be some sort of in class room coursework for learning some basic skills before you begin clinics, maybe like a 1 month bootcamp where all you work on is history taking, physicals, suturing, phlebotomy. Honestly, it could work and I have had this idea about medical school myself.
Psh, 3x, man (VLC). What is this, 2005?
 
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Aerus

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Nick Naylor bashed DOs in a previous thread I made and said he talked to a physician who said DOs are diluting the physician pool and alluded that they are sub-standard physicians because of the lower admission standards of the schools. I guess I'm still seething from it.
Why would you try to start an MD vs. DO thread in your own thread when your thread has nothing to do with it? That's like starting a gas leak in your own house just because.



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SkipJunior

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Why would you try to start an MD vs. DO thread in your own thread when your thread has nothing to do with it? That's like starting a gas leak in your own house just because.



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Sorry, it wasn't my intention but I'm still upset from what Nick Naylor posted earlier.
 

type12

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Why would you try to start an MD vs. DO thread in your own thread when your thread has nothing to do with it? That's like starting a gas leak in your own house just because.



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Some people just like to watch the world burn...

...I'm one of them. Can someone tell me if DO stands for Drop-Out? And MD for Major-Douche?
 

DermViser

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On a unrelated note, why do you seem to hate DO schools and DO students with such a passion? I gleaned this from reading your posts on previous threads. Does it make you feel better about yourself that you are a "superior MD" and not a "inferior DO"?
Nick Naylor bashed DOs in a previous thread I made and said he talked to a physician who said DOs are diluting the physician pool and alluded that they are sub-standard physicians because of the lower admission standards of the schools. I guess I'm still seething from it.
Some people just like to watch the world burn......I'm one of them. Can someone tell me if DO stands for Drop-Out? And MD for Major-Douche?
I think you're the first to derail your own thread.

First off, why are you attacking NickNaylor? He has been nothing more than super helpful throughout his time on SDN from premed onwards, and has elucidated the process greatly to many premeds and medical students here and has been exceedingly gracious and honest and is one of the more established members of SDN. NickNaylor has not "bashed" anyone. You are free to decide what metrics are necessary for medical school, but it's quite obvious you didn't actually READ his post in question on the subject of DOs which he didn't even bring up. And it wasn't even said by him, but by a mentor.

You are free to live in your own world that certain objective metrics don't matter, or that one's med school doesn't matter. No one even said those metrics are clairvoyant of the quality of a doctor you'll be (there is no metric for that). Whatever your deal is, stop taking umbrage at every little thing said, which is what drives people to not want to contribute honestly on SDN bc your feelings and insecurities will be hurt.
 
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DermViser

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That site screams "I did not hire a web developer." God, so many UX offenses...

Anyway, I don't see why not, frankly. CME is conducted almost exclusively online; if not, it definitely has been the preferred method of education for physicians I've met. However, I think it shows there needs to be changes to premed before this is possible: the ability to learn and process material with limited guidance is key.

Obviously, the more hands-on experiences will take more time. Impossible to replicate online? Not necessarily. Anytime soon? Definitely not.
You need to learn the difference between UME, GME, and CME. And no, CME is not all online. Physicians also have MOC (Maintenance of Certification) as well. Certain medical school experiences can NOT be replicated online or thru once a month physician sessions. PERIOD.
 
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I think you're the first to derail your own thread.

First off, why are you attacking NickNaylor? He has been nothing more than super helpful throughout his time on SDN from premed onwards, and has elucidated the process greatly to many premeds and medical students here and has been exceedingly gracious and honest and is one of the more established members of SDN. NickNaylor has not "bashed" anyone. You are free to decide what metrics are necessary for medical school, but it's quite obvious you didn't actually READ his post in question on the subject of DOs which he didn't even bring up. And it wasn't even said by him, but by a mentor.

You are free to live in your own world that certain objective metrics don't matter, or that one's med school doesn't matter. No one even said those metrics are clairvoyant of the quality of a doctor you'll be (there is no metric for that). Whatever your deal is, stop taking umbrage at every little thing said, which is what drives people to not want to contribute honestly on SDN bc your feelings and insecurities will be hurt.
You have a good point. We (including myself) should be more tolerant of opposing views. Anyway, regardless of what Nick, Nick's mentor, or I feel. the graduate of the lowliest DO school will practice medicine just like the graduate of an Ivy league medical school. That's all there is to it. Pre-meds and old attending coots can bash DOs all they want, doesn't change the facts.
 
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Narmerguy

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Obviously there are weaknesses to this model (doing full 2 years online, then jumping into preclinical). However, the real question becomes, what are the merits of this method, how can they be tweaked, and who wins from doing them (lower tuition? shorter training? etc). For example, students could do the first year online and arrive for the 2nd year and beyond. I'm not sure there are great incentives yet for an established school to use this to lower tuition or shorten training, but it could provide an opportunity for them to begin to push educational material out to more students (i.e. customers). Some schools are actually already working on this, and it could be picked up and used by students around the world.
 
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As per the asked question on the thread we all should keep it strictly to the asked question. I completely agree with Dermviser as to you completely derailed the thread on your own and it seemed intentional. We all are here to help and that is all we are here to do and coming quickly back to the point I believe that yes! online education would be there in the future as the trends say its is quickly taking over. According to a research from Babson 7.1 million was the number to get online courses last year and it is increasing but here it can only go to the state of pre clinical as other requires pure hands on clinical experience. You can check out some online structures to get online degree to know more in detail but I strongly believe that it cannot move any further from theory in online.
 

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As per the asked question on the thread we all should keep it strictly to the asked question. I completely agree with Dermviser as to you completely derailed the thread on your own and it seemed intentional. We all are here to help and that is all we are here to do and coming quickly back to the point I believe that yes! online education would be there in the future as the trends say its is quickly taking over. According to a research from Babson 7.1 million was the number to get online courses last year and it is increasing but here it can only go to the state of pre clinical as other requires pure hands on clinical experience. You can check out some online structures to get online degree to know more in detail but I strongly believe that it cannot move any further from theory in online.
so you agree with the model of iuhs then since their pre clinical years are online and clinical years are in person? what do you think of iuhs as a school?
 
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You of all people should know not to take what a Caribbean school says at face value based on your personal experience. I'm willing to bet that the one day a month with a physician consists of shadowing at a private practice pcp office with zero hands on experience. There's a reason US MD and DO schools shell out $$$ to get standardized patients for preclinical students to practice on.

That being said med schools are practically being forced to accommodate distance learning due to student preference. They will force u to show up for anatomy, small group discussions, and standardized patient exercises however and thats what sets them apart from a BS Caribbean school that just wants to rake in tuition without spending any money on the students.

Finally it's really amusing that you've turned into one of those reality denying pre-osteo kids who will get butthurt at any mention of the realities facing DOs from a significantly more experienced member.
 
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DermViser

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Finally it's really amusing that you've turned into one of those reality denying pre-osteo kids who will get butthurt at any mention of the realities facing DOs from a significantly more experienced member.
Bc it's almost always taken as a personal slight (butthurt) rather than taken as an acknowledgement of the realities on the ground as they are now, which might change with the merger, or it might not. Then expressions like "DO discrimination" start getting thrown around.
 
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