Opinion on the reserves/guard

[iatrosB]

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There is no doubt that there is plenty of negative comments on this site about active duty military service. What about the reserves or national guard? Is it as "bad" as active duty, worse? They are offering $80,000 in student loan repayments which seems like a great deal. I understand that the current environment makes it highly likely that a reservist will be deployed or made active duty for a good deal of time, it is not just a weekend job anymore. So what is the work day like for a reservist? Is it the same as the active duty docs? Any input appreciated, both negative and positive (I promise not to ask that anyone be banned 🙂 ).

 

[IgD]

The big thing with the reserves is the military owns you and will call you to active duty. This is especially true since we are at war. If you could handle being deployed the day after you sign the contract for 8 months then go for it. Once you get to active duty it's the same as everyone else.

I think the problem with the reserves is you get people who build up a private practice and try to forget the government owns them. Then they get a recall letter and the mail and their whole world turns upsidedown.

 

[iatrosB]

The big thing with the reserves is the military owns you and will call you to active duty. This is especially true since we are at war. If you could handle being deployed the day after you sign the contract for 8 months then go for it. Once you get to active duty it's the same as everyone else.

I think the problem with the reserves is you get people who build up a private practice and try to forget the government owns them. Then they get a recall letter and the mail and their whole world turns upsidedown.

Yeah, I could see how it would be easier to "forget" that you are at the government's mercy. I think the only way it would really work is if the physician worked as an employee rather than private practice.

 

[usnavdoc]

Yeah, I could see how it would be easier to "forget" that you are at the government's mercy. I think the only way it would really work is if the physician worked as an employee rather than private practice.

It may be easier on your work life if you are an employee, but you also must consider family life. How are you going to pay bills and keep your family in the lifestyle they are acustomed to. There is a huge pay discrepancy with regards to many specialties.

I mean if you are an Anesthesiologist as a civilian you may be making 300 or so and in the militray you would be taking about a 50% pay cut for that year that you are activated.

If you are considering the Military STAY far away from the active reserves. Go AD if you must join.

 

[ExNavyRad]

If you have any plans of building a private practice, DO NOT JOIN THE RESERVES.

I had almost 10 years active Navy and 2 1/2 years reserve. I resigned my commission a year ago (as an O-6 select) because of the insanely stupid manner that the Navy manages reserve activation and deployments.

Navy pay, even if you figure in all the specialty bonuses etc. will not come near your civilian pay, unless you are in one of the lower-paid primary care specialties.

WHEN (not if) you mobilize, your situation will be worse in actuality than the active duty side. First, unless you pay to continue your private health insurance for yourself and your family, you will be shunted into TRICARE. TRICARE is a cruel joke. If, God forbid, you get injured on active duty, you will get shoved off into the VA system. The VA in criminally underfunded and understaffed.

Second, unless you live near one of the larger military installations, commissary and NEX privileges are worthless. Same thing for family support, i.e. chaplains, MWR, etc.

Third, you may be the only person mobilized from your local reserve center. You may be attached to another unit from the opposite side of the country. This means the unit ombudsman will be a complete stranger. So much for (again) for family support, etc.

If you really want to deploy, (and that's what it comes down to) you are better off just going active duty.

Good luck,

Doc H.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

If you have any plans of building a private practice, DO NOT JOIN THE RESERVES.

I had almost 10 years active Navy and 2 1/2 years reserve. I resigned my commission a year ago (as an O-6 select) because of the insanely stupid manner that the Navy manages reserve activation and deployments.

Navy pay, even if you figure in all the specialty bonuses etc. will not come near your civilian pay, unless you are in one of the lower-paid primary care specialties.

WHEN (not if) you mobilize, your situation will be worse in actuality than the active duty side. First, unless you pay to continue your private health insurance for yourself and your family, you will be shunted into TRICARE. TRICARE is a cruel joke. If, God forbid, you get injured on active duty, you will get shoved off into the VA system. The VA in criminally underfunded and understaffed.

Second, unless you live near one of the larger military installations, commissary and NEX privileges are worthless. Same thing for family support, i.e. chaplains, MWR, etc.

Third, you may be the only person mobilized from your local reserve center. You may be attached to another unit from the opposite side of the country. This means the unit ombudsman will be a complete stranger. So much for (again) for family support, etc.

If you really want to deploy, (and that's what it comes down to) you are better off just going active duty.

Good luck,

Doc H.

Active reserve might be OK if you are a physician employee of a large institution with the capacity to accommodate your absence. In a private practice setting, it is not only a hardship for you by decreased take-home pay but also your partners and practice colleagues. Ask yourself who will generate the revenue to pay the overhead you would ordinarily be generating in your group when in practice. Will your absence mean the practice will have to lay off staff or leave offices unstaffed which would not otherwise be unstaffed? Do you know what will be the status of your malpractice coverage in your absence (will you have to pay your tail coverage or continue your present coverage uninterrupted during your absence)? What about your hospital call coverage? The "income insurance" plans the reserves offer don't cover office overhead losses, only gap coverage in take-home pay. If you want a practice to come home to that has partners happy to see you back, you need to think about more than just your personal income; you need to think of the survival of your practice as a business.

I think private practice and active reserves are a poor mix.

 

[iatrosB]

Thanks everyone for your input. Sounds like it is too much of a gamble at this point, I'm not even sure the practice style I will have. I guess the $80,000 doesn't look as good when you consider the price you pay.

 

[secretwave101]

I'm also considering this option, and I'm close to going ahead with it. Here's why:

-They instituted (in the Army, at least) a "90-day boots on ground" policy. When you are deployed, you CANNOT be in theater longer than 90-days. There is some processing before and after that can add as much as a week each time, but it's 90-days otherwise. I spoke with an actual reservist doctor and it's real. He was processed in 72-hours on his return, and he actually enjoyed is deployment. Worked in a clinic/hospital tent in Iraq and saw some stuff he would never see in is FP clinic. Rules are that he can't be called again for approximately 1.5 years.

-The overall financial advantage is better than the active duty option for residency. The 4 years you'll owe (if your residency is 3 years) of active duty service post-residency is paid so much under-market that you would cover the amount they give you during residency and outpace it. With the reserves, the amount they pay is almost equivalent to the active program, but you can also get civilian pay right out of residency. It really is the best option if you're looking to come out ahead financially. But, as with everything military...don't do it for the money.

-I'm thinking that you WILL be limited in practice options, but not drastically. Any group practice MUST make room for a woman doc who has a baby, and her time off is pretty close to 3 months like you would take. Everyone pitches in for this occurrence. Although a pain, the slack can be taken up by the office. You're toast if you're trying to open your own place, or just want to partner with someone. But otherwise I think it's a pretty workable situation.

-There is an option allows you to forego the 1 weekend/month drilling. All you have to serve is 12 days/year, if you choose. This route limits your retirement build-up (basically, don't choose this if you want military retirement benefits after 20 years in the reserves). You still owe the same amount of time (2 years for every year you're in residency) even if you don't drill on the weekends.

-As for deployment, the guy I talked to said he had close to a year to plan for it, which was more than enough to work things out with his 2 partners. His personal belief is that there will be fewer and fewer call-ups because it is becoming so politically expensive, but that remains to be seen.

In all, it's a pretty good deal. I'm still dubious about being owned for 6 years after residency. That's a loooong time. My goal is to get out of debt to anyone - banks, military, my parents, friends, whoever - and I'd like to think I could manage that in fewer than 6 years after residency. But the money the reserves offers is attractive. So, I'm on the fence for the moment.

 

[IgD]

In all, it's a pretty good deal. I'm still dubious about being owned for 6 years after residency. That's a loooong time. My goal is to get out of debt to anyone - banks, military, my parents, friends, whoever - and I'd like to think I could manage that in fewer than 6 years after residency.

I think that's the bottom line with HPSP and maybe a loan repayment deal. If you go to an upper tier medical school you are going to walk away with 150-200k in debt and military money is worth it. That debt is going to baloon during residency and even if you are making 250k / year it would take a long time to pay off especially if you have a family.

The other bottom line is that you are owned by the military and they can do whatever they want with you. If someone said you could go on an 8 month deployment, spend time away from your family and get paid $100k that might be a good deal.

 

[usnavdoc]

I think that's the bottom line with HPSP and maybe a loan repayment deal. If you go to an upper tier medical school you are going to walk away with 150-200k in debt and military money is worth it. That debt is going to baloon during residency and even if you are making 250k / year it would take a long time to pay off especially if you have a family.

The other bottom line is that you are owned by the military and they can do whatever they want with you. If someone said you could go on an 8 month deployment, spend time away from your family and get paid $100k that might be a good deal.

Loans do not take long to pay back if you are in a more lucrative field. I know two people a few years ahead of me that went into Anesthesiology and radiology that make 250 and 300. They are both 3 years post residency and have paid very significant amounts off their loans while having families and living very well.

There is a frequent poster in the Anesthesiology forum that paid his loans off completely in 10 years. That was counting 4 years of residency. So by 6 years post residency he was debt free.

Money should not be the deciding factor in your decision to join or not.

 

[IgD]

Your reply stresses the importance of due diligence. The careful investor needs to look at every aspect of signing a military medicine contract and perform a detailed cost/benefit analysis.

Loans do not take long to pay back if you are in a more lucrative field. I know two people a few years ahead of me that went into Anesthesiology and radiology that make 250 and 300. They are both 3 years post residency and have paid very significant amounts off their loans while having families and living very well.

There is a frequent poster in the Anesthesiology forum that paid his loans off completely in 10 years. That was counting 4 years of residency. So by 6 years post residency he was debt free.

Money should not be the deciding factor in your decision to join or not.

 

[secretwave101]

I'm pretty sure you don't come out ahead if you do a FAP type thing where you serve active duty for at least 4 years post-residency. 4 years of open-market doctor's pay (any specialty) should outpace the money you make in residency, the interest you save on your loans, the money you make on a house, and the salary you get from the military post-residency. According to my calc's anyway.

But I'm not too clear on the reserves, yet. Seems to me it's the best of both worlds if you can swing it professionally. As mentioned previously, it hinders your job choices after residency, but not dramatically. So, you get almost as much during residency as you would active-duty, but then you finish residency and make a normal doctor's salary. Granted, you could go to war at any point for the next 6 years, but the money may be worth it, depending on your debt load.

 

[combatmedic]

There is no doubt that there is plenty of negative comments on this site about active duty military service. What about the reserves or national guard? Is it as "bad" as active duty, worse? They are offering $80,000 in student loan repayments which seems like a great deal. I understand that the current environment makes it highly likely that a reservist will be deployed or made active duty for a good deal of time, it is not just a weekend job anymore. So what is the work day like for a reservist? Is it the same as the active duty docs? Any input appreciated, both negative and positive (I promise not to ask that anyone be banned 🙂 ).

Dude nothing beats the reservist life.Also from what I know most Reservist MD's if called for active duty only do up to 90 days max..So you got nothing to loose.If I were you?? I would join the Reserves....Hooah 👍

 

[militarymd]

Dude nothing beats the reservist life.Also from what I know most Reservist MD's if called for active duty only do up to 90 days max..So you got nothing to loose.If I were you?? I would join the Reserves....Hooah 👍

So what do you propose you do with your practice when you're gone?

Who's going to pay your receptionist, nurses, techs?

How are you going to pay for your lease/rent for your office space?

Who's going to followup all your patients???? and why should they give up your patients when you come back...assuming you have an office to come back to????

A private practice MD has EVERYTHING to lose.

 

[combatmedic]

So what do you propose you do with your practice when you're gone?

Who's going to pay your receptionist, nurses, techs?

How are you going to pay for your lease/rent for your office space?

Who's going to followup all your patients???? and why should they give up your patients when you come back...assuming you have an office to come back to????

A private practice MD has EVERYTHING to lose.

yup thats why Military Medical Program isn't for everyone.Thats the price you pay for getting through Medical School for free..I mean the choice is yours, you can either do full time active duty years or be a reservist....Personally I have been on Active duty 3 times since 9/11 and it totally sucks ##llz...

Oh yea i'm not a medical student yet...But I know a bunch of Army MD's

 

[GMO_52]

Oh yea i'm not a medical student yet...But I know a bunch of Army MD's

Be nice gang...I'm betting you can resist the temptation here.

Seriously, the only folks for whom the reserves aren't a bad deal are those in academia with protected salaries and no problem with fairly harsh op tempo.

 

[USAFGMODOC]

the only way I would ever do reserve/guard is if I had prior service and was working with the VA or something where you don't have to worry about your "private practice" dying while you are gone.

 

[combatmedic]

Also I would receommend AIR FORCE over ARMY & NAVY......I spent 6 yrs in the Army and I can tell you onething....Air Force sure as hell knows how to treat their soldiers right

 

[dtn3t]

Also I would receommend AIR FORCE over ARMY & NAVY......I spent 6 yrs in the Army and I can tell you onething....Air Force sure as hell knows how to treat their soldiers right

Yeah, I hear Air Force primary care medicine is the way to go...

Kidding. Really, just kidding.

 

[chickendoc]

I am pretty optimistic when it comes to military medicine but this is where I think you lose; big time. Even if it sounds good...remember that is probably the best case scenario and make sure you read the fine print. As far as I see it all reserivsts can be called up for 2 years. There is nothing that says they have to do it in 90 day increments...they may ,but there are no promises. Also, if you are in priviate practice it could bankrupt you; quickly. The reservists remain the redheaded stepchildren of the miltary. They get the oldest gear and are the last to get what they need. They are not trained appropriately (ok...not ALL...but I am involved in predeployment training and the reservists are the least prepared from the Navy/MC standpoint).
Beware and make sure you read the cotract and understand every word.

Good luck!

 

[combatmedic]

I am pretty optimistic when it comes to military medicine but this is where I think you lose; big time. Even if it sounds good...remember that is probably the best case scenario and make sure you read the fine print. As far as I see it all reserivsts can be called up for 2 years. There is nothing that says they have to do it in 90 day increments...they may ,but there are no promises. Also, if you are in priviate practice it could bankrupt you; quickly. The reservists remain the redheaded stepchildren of the miltary. They get the oldest gear and are the last to get what they need. They are not trained appropriately (ok...not ALL...but I am involved in predeployment training and the reservists are the least prepared from the Navy/MC standpoint).
Beware and make sure you read the cotract and understand every word.

Good luck!

How dare you..... 😱 Dear SIR you are speaking of the Reserves post desert storm.....Our reserve UNIT has current upto date GEAR and so does other UNITS....Dont forget its the NEW MILITARY thats going through changes everymonth...We're constantly field training....We take PT tests 3 times a YEAR(FYI: You are required to take only 2 PT TESTS Twice a year)...And why do you worry about weapons????Its not like you are getting commisioned to combat??Your job in the Military is a MEDICAL OFFICER......Next time do your research before degrading the backbone of the US MILITARY, "THE GREAT RESERVES"....HOOAH 👎

 

[secretwave101]

So what do you propose you do with your practice when you're gone?

Who's going to pay your receptionist, nurses, techs?

How are you going to pay for your lease/rent for your office space?

Who's going to followup all your patients???? and why should they give up your patients when you come back...assuming you have an office to come back to????

A private practice MD has EVERYTHING to lose.

The policy is a "90 days, boots-on-ground" stipulation for deployed reservist MD's. It's new since Desert Storm I because so many docs dropped out from extended deployments. It's IN THE CONTRACT.

Any woman who intends to have a baby while a practicing physician is in almost the exact same situation, and in general it isn't a big deal for them. They need to find a practice that is amenable to maternity leave for approx 3 months. The only type of practice this rules out is essentially a solo practice where there is no backup.

 

[Croatalus_atrox]

The policy is a "90 days, boots-on-ground" stipulation for deployed reservist MD's. It's new since Desert Storm I because so many docs dropped out from extended deployments. It's IN THE CONTRACT.

Be very careful about the wording they use for things like "90 days, boots-on-ground". Sometimes things like that only apply to in-theatre deployments, but don't apply when you are activated and remain stateside to backfill for a deployed active-duty member. Now, I don't know of any cases where that has happened to Guard or Reserve physicians, but I know if instances where it happened to enlisted reservists.

I always think of military contracts like making wishes on the monkey's paw...you get what you asked for, but not always in the way you expect.

 

[usnavdoc]

How dare you..... 😱 Dear SIR you are speaking of the Reserves post desert storm.....Our reserve UNIT has current upto date GEAR and so does other UNITS....Dont forget its the NEW MILITARY thats going through changes everymonth...We're constantly field training....We take PT tests 3 times a YEAR(FYI: You are required to take only 2 PT TESTS Twice a year)...And why do you worry about weapons????Its not like you are getting commisioned to combat??Your job in the Military is a MEDICAL OFFICER......Next time do your research before degrading the backbone of the US MILITARY, "THE GREAT RESERVES"....HOOAH 👎

The great reserves? come on. Have you seen the number of 60 year old specialists running around Iraq and afghanistan? Id be more worried about them having a heart attack than getting shot. I mean seriously. I know they are much improved and do a great job but they need to have age limits on jobs.

Reserves are a bad way to go for a doctor. If you are private practice your practice could go under. If you are an employee, then consider the salary change and your ability to pay your families bills. I just dont see why anyone would consider this option. It is such a gamble. The only way Id do it is if I were an employee and were going to remain single and had the means to make sure I could afford my bills on my "new salary" once you get called up.

 

[ExNavyRad]

Dude nothing beats the reservist life.Also from what I know most Reservist MD's if called for active duty only do up to 90 days max..So you got nothing to loose.If I were you?? I would join the Reserves....Hooah 👍

You don't say? You might want to check that with the Navy orthopedic surgeons, general surgeons, internists, and anesthesiologists who got called up out of their civilian practices to staff Fleet Hospital Dallas at Arifjan, Kuwait in 2004-2005. They spent about 10 months gone, including around 9 months "boots on the ground". Ask the ortho guy who had to shell out $200K of his own money for a locums to take care of his patients while he was gone. Ask the oral surgeon who had to close his practice and lay off his office staff while he was gone if he had "nothing to lose".

Maybe the Army has only 90-day deployments for reservists, but it ain't that way for the Navy.

ExNavyRad

 

[combatmedic]

Onething is clear from this thread that none of you HPSP MD scholars are interested in serving the country.All you guys care about is money. 👎 Boo

Its a shame

 

[ExNavyRad]

Onething is clear from this thread that none of you HPSP MD scholars are interested in serving the country.All you guys care about is money. 👎 Boo

Its a shame

So I guess you declined any special pays and re-enlistment bonuses then. Oh, and you returned all your paychecks back to the Army, uncashed. Since all you care about is service to the country, and care not a whit about money...

ExNavyRad

 

[militarymd]

Onething is clear from this thread that none of you HPSP MD scholars are interested in serving the country.All you guys care about is money. 👎 Boo

Its a shame

Sooooo, you want people to throw everything they have built over their lifetime......to serve your country....in a system that doesn't allow you to serve your country....in a system that will screw you without lube for no reason other than "it's always been this way"????

It is clear to me that you don't have a clear grasp of what is at stake.

 

[usnavdoc]

Onething is clear from this thread that none of you HPSP MD scholars are interested in serving the country.All you guys care about is money. 👎 Boo

Its a shame

You have no idea what you are talking about. Alot of people on this site have been to Afghanistan and Iraq multiple times as a volunteer. Have you been? You are caught up in your little enlisted world and have no idea what you are talking about. Say Hooah one more time for me to prove Im right.

All we care about is money? Please. Thats why we tell people not to join only for money b/c they will be unhappy. The reality is that serving your country is great but taking care of your family is a much more important thing for an individual to do. If those things can mesh well with the reserves great for both. But mostly these things dont mesh well b/c of the financial losses and time away from family/career when you are deployed with little warning.
Anyone thinking of joing the reserves as a medical officer is risking their families well being and that of their practice/career. I for one do not think it is worth it. No one individual matters to the mission of our armed forces. But that one person does matter for their families well being. Join AD if you truly want to serve your country. At least then you know exactly what you and your family are in for.

 

[combatmedic]

You have no idea what you are talking about. Alot of people on this site have been to Afghanistan and Iraq multiple times as a volunteer. Have you been? You are caught up in your little enlisted world and have no idea what you are talking about. Say Hooah one more time for me to prove Im right.

All we care about is money? Please. Thats why we tell people not to join only for money b/c they will be unhappy. The reality is that serving your country is great but taking care of your family is a much more important thing for an individual to do. If those things can mesh well with the reserves great for both. But mostly these things dont mesh well b/c of the financial losses and time away from family/career when you are deployed with little warning.
Anyone thinking of joing the reserves as a medical officer is risking their families well being and that of their practice/career. I for one do not think it is worth it. No one individual matters to the mission of our armed forces. But that one person does matter for their families well being. Join AD if you truly want to serve your country. At least then you know exactly what you and your family are in for.

Dear Sir,
I have been Mobbed 3 times (twice overseas Total AD=36 MONTHS)....But anywayz I'm a single guy so I'm thinking of it from my perspective, I guess if you are a family guy then AD is a way to go.

Hooah

No pun intended to anyone 😉

 

[chickendoc]

How dare you..... 😱 Dear SIR you are speaking of the Reserves post desert storm.....Our reserve UNIT has current upto date GEAR and so does other UNITS....Dont forget its the NEW MILITARY thats going through changes everymonth...We're constantly field training....We take PT tests 3 times a YEAR(FYI: You are required to take only 2 PT TESTS Twice a year)...And why do you worry about weapons????Its not like you are getting commisioned to combat??Your job in the Military is a MEDICAL OFFICER......Next time do your research before degrading the backbone of the US MILITARY, "THE GREAT RESERVES"....HOOAH 👎

In the post I stated I am involved in predeployment training for Navy/MC...don't need to do research, I live it.l