Opinion Question: Health a human right or privilege?

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but I guess my counter to that is, why is infertility never covered by insurance when it is a medical condition? As someone who has spent thousands of dollars of my own money in that space it feels pretty stupid
It is covered sometimes. Infertility is rough.
 
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These are great philosophical questions and should be where the discussion is focused upon!

We should all agree that ordinary means of healthcare for all is necessary. What constitutes ordinary vs extraordinary treatment is where the real discussion lies.
we don’t all agree on that
Back during Obama's first presidential run against McCain, it had been well studied that the US Public was willing to tolerate just under $100B annual budget for universal health care. Unfortunately, imo, there was a great opportunity missed to educate the public as to just what care could be covered for that amount, including care and financial limits, and hospice as a tool to stay within public financial opinion. Unfortunately, the education opportunity was squandered once death-panels were labeled by the Republicans, despite having originally supported the desire for universal health care.
republicans in general did not actually agree on universal care at all

and if the payor decides gramma isn’t eligible for a vent and ltac then the payor is now the death panel for forcing hospice. It may be the actually correct medical advice and the name is dramatic but duuuuuude, that’s what it is
 
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Long-term acute care is another slippery slope. I think the bottom line is that healthcare, like any other good or commodity, costs money because people put their time into it (healthcare professionals, that is). We don't live in a socialized country, so it doesn't make sense that people's time/resources involved should be "free." End of story.
 
Long-term acute care is another slippery slope. I think the bottom line is that healthcare, like any other good or commodity, costs money because people put their time into it (healthcare professionals, that is). We don't live in a socialized country, so it doesn't make sense that people's time/resources involved should be "free." End of story.

not yet... there are many “progressive” (is socialist) politicians running for office nowadays thanks to Comrade Sanders
 
premed1875 said:
not yet... there are many “progressive” (is socialist) politicians running for office nowadays thanks to Comrade Sandersp
Hmmm well I don't predict that they will win. People have to pay their bills; they have jobs to take care of...the money has to come from somewhere. In case you can't tell, I don't support socialism. :p
 
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we don’t all agree on that
republicans in general did not actually agree on universal care at all

and if the payor decides gramma isn’t eligible for a vent and ltac then the payor is now the death panel for forcing hospice. It may be the actually correct medical advice and the name is dramatic but duuuuuude, that’s what it is
You didn’t realize we are in agreement on this advice and financial mgmt necessary?
 
Article 12(d) of International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights: created by the UN in 1966, ratified by 170 countries (not the US though)

Human rights are a covenant between the government and the population it governs, as a way to protect them from oversteps. Healthcare is a second-generation human right, something that is called a "positive obligation" of the government to ensure equality. The statement that healthcare is a human right should not be that controversial (imho) because it really just means that the government must provide a method of healthcare for those who cannot access it on their own: "(d) The creation of conditions which would assure to all medical service and medical attention in the event of sickness."

I would hope Medicare/Medicaid isn't something you would want to repeal (aka saying that healthcare isn't a human right, that the government should not be the ones providing that service to people who can't access it themselves). Expansion of Medicare and socialized medicine is a different story, albeit something that I am fond of myself.
 
fakepremed1234 said:
Article 12(d) of International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights: created by the UN in 1966, ratified by 170 countries (not the US though)

Human rights are a covenant between the government and the population it governs, as a way to protect them from oversteps. Healthcare is a second-generation human right, something that is called a "positive obligation" of the government to ensure equality. The statement that healthcare is a human right should not be that controversial (imho) because it really just means that the government must provide a method of healthcare for those who cannot access it on their own: "(d) The creation of conditions which would assure to all medical service and medical attention in the event of sickness."

I would hope Medicare/Medicaid isn't something you would want to repeal (aka saying that healthcare isn't a human right, that the government should not be the ones providing that service to people who can't access it themselves). Expansion of Medicare and socialized medicine is a different story, albeit something that I am fond of myself.
No one's talking about eradicating Medicare and/or Medicaid. Some positive benefits of Medicare and Medicaid:
1) They encourage insurers to cover more conditions than they would normally, by covering new txs and services at bottom dollar prices
2) They care for the needy and the elderly population
3) They pay doctors who aren't able, for whatever reason (locale, feasibility, specialty/sub-specialty) to attract clients with private insurance
4) They line the pocketbooks of doctors who accept mostly private insurance, but want to see a mix of pts
5) They help new doctors establish business and attract wealthier clients (when they demonstrate success with Medicare/Medicaid pts)

Medicare and Medicaid definitely serve a purpose and I don't see these entities going anywhere. However, sometimes they
1) Don't pay doctors enough to cover costs--this is particularly problematic when it comes to things like start-up costs and overhead (unusual, but probably a concern in some cases)
2) Encourage doctors to see too many pts in a short time period (emphasizing efficiency rather than care)
3) Encourage doctors to use dxs that they wouldn't otherwise (through incentivizing procedures rather than talking/other txs)
4) Set the bar for how much private insurers will pay for a tx/service, which can be a double-edged sword
5) Can be tricky/complicated/late in compensating doctors

Medicare and Medicaid are how as millions of people get by. I don't see them going anywhere. Medicaid covers things like routine dentist appts and physicals, but not really much else. Medicare is much more comprehensive, but you pay into it from your social security wages (which is of course based on income taxes over a lifetime). Medicare is great for cheap drugs--and conversely, a lot of older people need a lot of drugs. But as with most things, these two services alone won't cover things like
-cataract repairs
-congenital defect cases
-new glasses

etc. So, all things considered, you get what you pay for.
 
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Article 12(d) of International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights: created by the UN in 1966, ratified by 170 countries (not the US though)

Human rights are a covenant between the government and the population it governs, as a way to protect them from oversteps. Healthcare is a second-generation human right, something that is called a "positive obligation" of the government to ensure equality. The statement that healthcare is a human right should not be that controversial (imho) because it really just means that the government must provide a method of healthcare for those who cannot access it on their own: "(d) The creation of conditions which would assure to all medical service and medical attention in the event of sickness."

I would hope Medicare/Medicaid isn't something you would want to repeal (aka saying that healthcare isn't a human right, that the government should not be the ones providing that service to people who can't access it themselves). Expansion of Medicare and socialized medicine is a different story, albeit something that I am fond of myself.

a lot of people in Canada don’t have a right to healthcare. They have a right to a waiting line.

Obamacare couldn’t even make a single website work. The post office is literally still in the Stone Age. The police are incompetent and murder innocent people.The gov isn’t some glorious system, it’s generally ****ty at what it does, probably because it’s run by a bunch of average people who generally lack direct economic incentive to do an A+ job.

I think appropriately regulated free markets without crony-capitalism could achieve amazing things in healthcare with Medicaid and Medicare to help when needed
 
Article 12(d) of International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights: created by the UN in 1966, ratified by 170 countries (not the US though)

Human rights are a covenant between the government and the population it governs, as a way to protect them from oversteps. Healthcare is a second-generation human right, something that is called a "positive obligation" of the government to ensure equality. The statement that healthcare is a human right should not be that controversial (imho) because it really just means that the government must provide a method of healthcare for those who cannot access it on their own: "(d) The creation of conditions which would assure to all medical service and medical attention in the event of sickness."

I would hope Medicare/Medicaid isn't something you would want to repeal (aka saying that healthcare isn't a human right, that the government should not be the ones providing that service to people who can't access it themselves). Expansion of Medicare and socialized medicine is a different story, albeit something that I am fond of myself.
I don’t care what the UN says, a right to someone else’s labor/goods isn’t real.

i’m fine with ending medicare, stop signing people up
 
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