(WAMC) What are my chances for matching into Dermatology?

[asmallchild]

Thanks for input thus far -- stats quoted above.
I was wondering if I could get a few opinions on how many aways to do (apart from home rotation)?
I originally wanted to do 3, but an afraid I will burn out and not be able to put out a great effort for the last?

How strong are you clinically? (Not saying this to be mean, most med students make this mistake. I certainly did. We tend to overrate ourselves clinically). How strong are you socially? Can you impress without annoying? Do you know when you need to speak up and when it's time to recede to the background? These are things that I was never great at.

For me, 1 home rotation and 1 away rotation worked best.

For those with a strong CV and weak clinical skills, more aways could mean more chances to expose yourself.

For those with a weak CV and strong clinical skills, the more aways the merrier.

If there is a concern already that you will burn out on the last away rotation, I think you are better off just doing two. I would pick the two you are really interested in and make sure you go all out. (Also keep in mind that many derm rotations are heavy on shadowing and light on giving you an opportunity to shine. I know that by the end of my 2nd clinical derm rotation, I was tired of fake smiling. Some students do it better than others. You'll need to honestly assess how good you are at that game before deciding how many away rotations to pursue)

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[Foot Fetish]

M1 here. I know its early, but I am concerned about not being able to get enough research done before it's time to apply. I am currently sitting on exactly zero abstracts, presentations, or publications...I do have a research project in derm lined up for the summer, which I hope will net me an abstract, a presentation or two, and ultimately a published journal article...but that is just speculation. I figure I won't really have much time during second year to continue with research since I will be spending all my free time studying for boards...and then third year will be dominated by studying for shelf exams in order to get Honors, so I doubt I would have much time then either. At most, I might be able to sqeeze in a case report or two during third year, but realistically that would be it...Assuming I get 250+ on boards, mostly Honors in 3rd year, and the planned research, would I have a shot at matching somewhere if I applied to every single derm program in the country? It's crazy how I already feel behind, and I'm not even done with my first year...How do other people do it? I suppose I could take on multiple research projects at once, but I really want to focus on making a stellar impression with my current derm mentor/PI...If I had known it would be like this, I would have focused on getting published in college, but hindsight is 20/20...I really don't want to have to take a research year.

 

[asmallchild]

M1 here. I know its early, but I am concerned about not being able to get enough research done before it's time to apply. I am currently sitting on exactly zero abstracts, presentations, or publications...I do have a research project in derm lined up for the summer, which I hope will net me an abstract, a presentation or two, and ultimately a published journal article...but that is just speculation. I figure I won't really have much time during second year to continue with research since I will be spending all my free time studying for boards...and then third year will be dominated by studying for shelf exams in order to get Honors, so I doubt I would have much time then either. At most, I might be able to sqeeze in a case report or two during third year, but realistically that would be it...Assuming I get 250+ on boards, mostly Honors in 3rd year, and the planned research, would I have a shot at matching somewhere if I applied to every single derm program in the country? It's crazy how I already feel behind, and I'm not even done with my first year...How do other people do it? I suppose I could take on multiple research projects at once, but I really want to focus on making a stellar impression with my current derm mentor/PI...If I had known it would be like this, I would have focused on getting published in college, but hindsight is 20/20...I really don't want to have to take a research year.

You are fine, take everything one step at a time. You've already lined things up nicely. Work hard this summer and impress your current derm mentor / PI.

During 2nd year, if you are able to keep up with the coursework, you can work on some research on the side (I was able to do this). If you aren't able to keep up with the coursework, that comes first. All the research in the world won't help you overcome poor grades or a poor Step 1.

During 3rd year, if you are able to balance your clinical rotations with some research, there's another opportunity to get research in (I was NOT able to do this.) If you aren't able to thrive on your rotations, that comes first before any research.

If you go through all this and have 250+ on your boards, mostly honors 3rd year, Jr AOA status, etc..., you probably don't need a research year. Just focus on cramming as much research in during the early portion of 4th year as possible.

On the other hand, if things don't go as planned, you always have the option of pursuing a research year. I would take things one step at a time and work on really impressing in the project you currently have lined up.

 

[GoPelicans]

How useful would you consider a research year if it results in no pubs? I will be interviewing with a dermatologist with a PhD and based on his pubmed I'm sure he's going to sell me on a basic science project. He publishes 5-6 times per year in reputable joournals, but it's all basic science. Not sure 1 year will be enough for me to get my name on something. I'm also not a huge fan of basic science but can tolerate it if the work leads to something.

 

[asmallchild]

How useful would you consider a research year if it results in no pubs? I will be interviewing with a dermatologist with a PhD and based on his pubmed I'm sure he's going to sell me on a basic science project. He publishes 5-6 times per year in reputable joournals, but it's all basic science. Not sure 1 year will be enough for me to get my name on something. I'm also not a huge fan of basic science but can tolerate it if the work leads to something.

It depends on the researcher. If he is influential enough to get you into a program, it's still a useful year.

In general, I wouldn't recommend dedicating an entire year to research if you are unlikely to get any publications. Basic science doesn't necessarily mean no publications. I know of students who participated in basic science research and got their names on 10+ papers in 1 year.

I also recommend picking a topic where you have some interest or passion. Merely "tolerating" the work is usually something that can be easily detected come interview time and isn't a good look.

 

[Magneto1]

This may be a very subjective question, but how differently are research projects that are currently under publishing review (like to the JAAD, DOJ, etc.) viewed from a Derm program's standpoint than published projects? Obviously published projects are ideal but in terms of offering interviews and judging an applicants strength, can an applicant with "3" studies submitted to journals at the time of application submission be viewed on a "similar" level to an applicant with 1+ publications? My main point i'm trying to figure out is since publication reviews take forever and don't accomodate our ERAS apps, do programs more or less take this into account?

 

[asmallchild]

This may be a very subjective question, but how differently are research projects that are currently under publishing review (like to the JAAD, DOJ, etc.) viewed from a Derm program's standpoint than published projects? Obviously published projects are ideal but in terms of offering interviews and judging an applicants strength, can an applicant with "3" studies submitted to journals at the time of application submission be viewed on a "similar" level to an applicant with 1+ publications? My main point i'm trying to figure out is since publication reviews take forever and don't accomodate our ERAS apps, do programs more or less take this into account?

As you mentioned, each program will approach this differently. In general, actual publications (in respectable journals) will count for a lot more than "articles in submission" or "articles under review"

 

[OTOSwap]

Looks like you are on the right path. You are more than qualified with your stats, my recommendation would be to get as much exposure as possible and to get good letters (from dermatologists) for the application process.

I've met a couple of residents who have transferred from ENT. It would be worthwhile to target programs who have a history of taking transfers (as well as checking with your home program regarding any funding issues that may pop up)

Do you know which ones? Current ENT resident seeking to transfer into dermatology

 

[asmallchild]

Do you know which ones? Current ENT resident seeking to transfer into dermatology

I'm familiar with someone who did it at SLU and I believe UPenn. Unfortunately I don't know too many others, not a very common pathway to transition from.

 

[OTOSwap]

I'm familiar with someone who did it at SLU and I believe UPenn. Unfortunately I don't know too many others, not a very common pathway to transition from.

Oh amazing! Would you have their names by chance? You could PM me so their info isn't on a message board

 

[jrks]

School: Mid-tier state school in Midwest
Step 1: 266
Step 2: TBD. Will be available for residencies to see
GPA: 3.89. Class rank: Top 15%
Pre-clinical: All honors
Clinic:
Honored Surgery, IM, Psych, Pediatrics, Neurology, and OB/GYN
HP in Family Medicine
All Shelf exams >90th percentile
AOA: Was invited to apply but ultimately not accepted for junior AOA
Research: No derm projects
2 Non-derm publications
2 Non-derm posters

Occasional extra-circulars and volunteering but nothing significant

Planning on doing home and 1 away

What are my chances?

 

[asmallchild]

School: Mid-tier state school in Midwest
Step 1: 266
Step 2: TBD. Will be available for residencies to see
GPA: 3.89. Class rank: Top 15%
Pre-clinical: All honors
Clinic:
Honored Surgery, IM, Psych, Pediatrics, Neurology, and OB/GYN
HP in Family Medicine
All Shelf exams >90th percentile
AOA: Was invited to apply but ultimately not accepted for junior AOA
Research: No derm projects
2 Non-derm publications
2 Non-derm posters

Occasional extra-circulars and volunteering but nothing significant

Planning on doing home and 1 away

What are my chances?

You should be fine. Step 1 looks good, good clinical grades. I would work on getting to know your home department and trying to get some derm research in. Beyond that, apply broadly and good luck!

 

[sniderwes]

M3 here, just got my Step 1 score back. Very glad I found this thread...need some advice about whether or not I could have a good shot at matching or if I should try for specialties such as Ophthalmology which is more in line with my scores.

School: Mid-tier state school in Northeast
Step 1: 244
Step 2: N/A
Class rank: School does not rank, but I'm around average.
Clinic:
N/A
AOA: No
Research: No derm projects
1 Non-derm Quality Improvement publication

One extracurricular leadership position, no volunteering. I'm willing to take a year off to do research, willing to do any derm program as long as I can match, but with my mediocre stats I'm having doubts if even that will give me a good chance. I was a business major in undergrad, and science was never my strong suit.

 

[Mohsaic]

M3 here, just got my Step 1 score back. Very glad I found this thread...need some advice about whether or not I could have a good shot at matching or if I should try for specialties such as Ophthalmology which is more in line with my scores.

School: Mid-tier state school in Northeast
Step 1: 244
Step 2: N/A
Class rank: School does not rank, but I'm around average.
Clinic:
N/A
AOA: No
Research: No derm projects
1 Non-derm Quality Improvement publication

One extracurricular leadership position, no volunteering. I'm willing to take a year off to do research, willing to do any derm program as long as I can match, but with my mediocre stats I'm having doubts if even that will give me a good chance. I was a business major in undergrad, and science was never my strong suit.

I don't think it's completely out of the question to match derm, but it might be an uphill battle. Sounds like you're already aware, but 244 is, I think, slightly below average for matched applicants. You'll probably make it past most if not all cutoff, but I don't think it will do you any favors beyond that. Not having any significant research will also put you behind other applicants as well. Have you been doing well in your clerkships? Do you happen to already have strong connections with your home derm department or anyone else in derm? That can go a long way. If you really want to pursue dermatology, I would strongly suggest considering taking a year off to do research.

 

[subrato]

School: Mid-tier institution in the south-central
Step 1: 247
Step 2: Will be available to see
Pre-clinical: 2 honors, the rest are pass (we are honors/pass/fail)
Clinic: we don't have honors, just letter grades. I have A's in every rotation so far (surgery, medicine, neuro, family, and psych)
AOA: Not sure if I will be or not. I feel like it's a 65-35 chance in my favor.
Research: Will likely have zero publications. One abstract presented at a conference (non-derm), anywhere from 1-3 non-derm posters at major conferences, and 1 derm conference presentation. Trying to get more research but not having luck.
Rotations: Will only be able to do my home rotation. An away is literally a 0% possibility.

What are my chances with all this? I absolutely cannot do an away rotation, and it is absolutely not an option for me to do a research year or anything else that delays graduation. I know these 2 things are not great for my chances, I just want to have an idea of what my odds are with these obstacles in place.

 

[asmallchild]

School: Mid-tier institution in the south-central
Step 1: 247
Step 2: Will be available to see
Pre-clinical: 2 honors, the rest are pass (we are honors/pass/fail)
Clinic: we don't have honors, just letter grades. I have A's in every rotation so far (surgery, medicine, neuro, family, and psych)
AOA: Not sure if I will be or not. I feel like it's a 65-35 chance in my favor.
Research: Will likely have zero publications. One abstract presented at a conference (non-derm), anywhere from 1-3 non-derm posters at major conferences, and 1 derm conference presentation. Trying to get more research but not having luck.
Rotations: Will only be able to do my home rotation. An away is literally a 0% possibility.

What are my chances with all this? I absolutely cannot do an away rotation, and it is absolutely not an option for me to do a research year or anything else that delays graduation. I know these 2 things are not great for my chances, I just want to have an idea of what my odds are with these obstacles in place.

Unfortunately, I think you already know this makes you an average to below average candidate. A Step 1 score of 247 will get you past most cutoffs but the average Step 1 score for matched applicants has now risen into the 250s.

I think you have done well clinically and getting AOA status will be a big help.

It's nice that you have some research but having 0 publications doesn't help.

I think your biggest area of weakness will be getting letters especially if you are only doing a home rotation. Is your home program well known enough where you can get 3 great letters? Were you able to work with a researcher in dermatology who can provide you with a great letter as well? Away rotations and research years are great opportunities to get letters and make connections with well-known dermatologists.

In the end, all it takes is one place liking you enough to match. In your case, I think your best bet would be your home program. Are you well connected within that program? Does your home program have a good history of taking medical students from its affiliated med school? If not, I think it's still worth applying but I would definitely have a clear backup plan in place in the event things do not work out as planned.

 

[sniderwes]

I don't think it's completely out of the question to match derm, but it might be an uphill battle. Sounds like you're already aware, but 244 is, I think, slightly below average for matched applicants. You'll probably make it past most if not all cutoff, but I don't think it will do you any favors beyond that. Not having any significant research will also put you behind other applicants as well. Have you been doing well in your clerkships? Do you happen to already have strong connections with your home derm department or anyone else in derm? That can go a long way. If you really want to pursue dermatology, I would strongly suggest considering taking a year off to do research.

I am on the second week of clerkships so far, starting in OB/Gyn. The long and early hours are taking some getting used to, but I am trying to adapt as quickly as I can to the new environment and learn the game that is M3 year. I do not have any connections to dermatology, and research would thus be my most likely route of making them.

I understand that I am a below average candidate...do you think with a research year I would be competitive enough, or that the odds are stacked enough against me that it might be better to let dermatology go as just a pipe dream?

 

[Mohsaic]

I am on the second week of clerkships so far, starting in OB/Gyn. The long and early hours are taking some getting used to, but I am trying to adapt as quickly as I can to the new environment and learn the game that is M3 year. I do not have any connections to dermatology, and research would thus be my most likely route of making them.

I understand that I am a below average candidate...do you think with a research year I would be competitive enough, or that the odds are stacked enough against me that it might be better to let dermatology go as just a pipe dream?

Sorry about that, missed the fact that you're just starting third year.

Couple of things:
I don't think you should give up yet. Reassess midway through third year and take it from there.

Shoot for as many honors as possible in third year. It does matter. Not that getting one non-honors grade is going to ruin your chances, but just try to be as good as possible so it's a non-issue. Doing well across the board will also make it easier for people to say good things about you on evals and that will feed into your MSPE (at least it did at my school) and stronger letters. With people you click with, ask for a letter at the end of your time working with them, don't wait until later. I think medicine letters are always good (can be used for intern year and derm) and of course derm letters.

I think a research year would really help you, and I think if you did one you would probably match. With what you have said so far, I would not apply directly to derm without a research year. With that said, there are always exceptions either way..you could match without a research year, and you may not match even by taking one, but that goes for anyone, just the gamble of taking the extra year.

Also consider doing some away derm electives. For some applicants, the risks outweigh the benefits, but for average to below average applicants (although that would still put you well above average across all 4th years!), I would recommend doing a few in order to maximize your chances at those programs. Personally, I would look at mid-tier programs for aways because I think the upper-tier programs tend to put less weight on the aways, but that would be for you to ultimately decide.

Finally, you should take Step 2 CK early (very beginning of 4th year) and have that made available ASAP to programs. Study hard and hope that your score goes up. I think it's doable!

**Also, just so you can put what I am saying in context and use accordingly (insight into my personal perspective/experience), I'm a recently matched 4th year, first time applicant, applied only to derm, above average stats, took a research year, and no aways.

 

[asmallchild]

Any difference in interviews or outcomes with regards to being Junior AOA vs Senior AOA?

I seem to remember matching outcome being slightly better for those with Junior AOA but in general, being AOA is more important than whether you join as a junior or senior

 

[asmallchild]

Any thoughts on which is better: A decent letter from an extremely well known dermatologist or a super-strong personal letter from a completely unknown dermatologist?

Letters from well known dermatologists (assuming they are positive ones) are almost always better.

Who wrote the second letter for you? Someone in private practice?

 

[Superstarmedboy]

I am at the end of M3 year getting ready to apply and just wondering what my chances would be with the following stats:

School: Top 40
Step 1: 246
Preclinical: Passed everything, no honors or near honors
Clinical: Honors in internal medicine, ob-gyn, psych. Near honors in peds, neuro. Pass in surgery.
Research: 2nd author on derm case report. Working on a 1st author publication that is derm related. 2 other non-derm mid-author publications in peer-reviewed journals as well as several poster presentations at conferences in which I have won poster awards.
Extracurricular: Volunteer at a free medical clinic regularly and help out in the derm specialty clinic on the side. Also involved with tutoring med students as well as outreach programs for middle schoolers and high schoolers who are interested in STEM.
LORS: Probably can get a strong letter from my research mentor as well as a couple more letters from ttendings at my home institution that I have worked with during my derm sub-i.

I am currently on a derm sub-i at my home institution and have already completed a 2 weeker derm rotation in which I received a Near Honors. Thanks for the advice.

 

[dermmom17]

I am at the end of M3 year getting ready to apply and just wondering what my chances would be with the following stats:

School: Top 40
Step 1: 246
Preclinical: Passed everything, no honors or near honors
Clinical: Honors in internal medicine, ob-gyn, psych. Near honors in peds, neuro. Pass in surgery.
Research: 2nd author on derm case report. Working on a 1st author publication that is derm related. 2 other non-derm mid-author publications in peer-reviewed journals as well as several poster presentations at conferences in which I have won poster awards.
Extracurricular: Volunteer at a free medical clinic regularly and help out in the derm specialty clinic on the side. Also involved with tutoring med students as well as outreach programs for middle schoolers and high schoolers who are interested in STEM.
LORS: Probably can get a strong letter from my research mentor as well as a couple more letters from ttendings at my home institution that I have worked with during my derm sub-i.

I am currently on a derm sub-i at my home institution and have already completed a 2 weeker derm rotation in which I received a Near Honors. Thanks for the advice.

Good luck to you. My family member didn't match this past cycle with stellar stats, Step 1 of 265 and higher for Step 2, AOA as junior, all Honors in clinicals. However, she didn't have as much research as you, nor the derm clinic volunteer work that you have. So excellent stats are not always an indicator of success. Apply very broadly to as many places as you can, and by all means, get to know your school's attendings and especially the program director very well. You will definitely need to have excellent recommendations from them. Sounds like you are doing everything you can. Wish you well.

 

[ThinkingSkin18]

Throwaway account, current 3rd year, just trying to get an idea where I stand. Interested in academics.

School: Top 10
Step 1: 260
Step 2: Not taken yet.
Class rank: Probably upper 1/3
Clinic: No grades yet, honors in 2 of 2 medicine sub-rotations so far
Research:
22 publications, including submitted papers. 13 first author.
21 abstracts/posters/oral presentations.
None derm related.
Extras: Nothing of note. Intramural sports, working out.

Not sure if I'm set on derm yet but strongly interested. Anything else I should be doing? Might get involved in derm research soon, but I don't do my rotation until after Christmas break.

Couple ERAS research questions for my app and I don't know where else to ask:

(1) Abstract was accepted and published in supplemental issue of journal, and I then gave either an oral presentation or poster presentation at the conference. Preferred to list under "Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts" or under "Poster Presentation"/ "Oral Presentation"?

(2) Manuscript was published in online-only journal (in my case PLoS ONE). Does this go under "Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts" or "Peer Reviewed Online Publication"? What is the "Peer Reviewed Online Publication" section for?

(3) Abstracts where I am a co-author but didn't present. Are these listed anywhere or not?

Surprised I couldn't easily find the answer to some of these questions on my google/SDN searches.

 

[asmallchild]

Couple ERAS research questions for my app and I don't know where else to ask:

(1) Abstract was accepted and published in supplemental issue of journal, and I then gave either an oral presentation or poster presentation at the conference. Preferred to list under "Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts" or under "Poster Presentation"/ "Oral Presentation"?

(2) Manuscript was published in online-only journal (in my case PLoS ONE). Does this go under "Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts" or "Peer Reviewed Online Publication"? What is the "Peer Reviewed Online Publication" section for?

(3) Abstracts where I am a co-author but didn't present. Are these listed anywhere or not? Is there a section for Misc Research?

Surprised I couldn't easily find the answer to some of these questions on my google/SDN searches.

Answers in bold but you may want to verify with someone who has been through this more recently as admittedly, it has been a while since I've filled out an ERAS app

 

[ThinkingSkin18]

Answers in bold but you may want to verify with someone who has been through this more recently as admittedly, it has been a while since I've filled out an ERAS app

I appreciate the response, as always. Questions 1-2 seem less important as I've heard people argue both ways. I'm still at a loss for how to enter co-authored abstracts, though. The categories available include:

(1) Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts
(2) Peer Reviewed Journal Articles/Abstracts (Other than Published)
(3) Peer Reviewed Book Chapter
(4) Scientific Monograph
(5) Other Articles
(6) Poster Presentation
(7) Oral Presentation
(8) Peer Reviewed Online Publication
(9) Non Peer Reviewed Online Publication

I read somewhere to use category 1 for co-authored abstracts and enter "presented at _____" for the Publication Name. Which makes sense, I guess, but then they are listed in the same category as all of your actual papers. Maybe I'm just overthinking this.

 

[BillrothI]

Hey Everybody,

I just received my Step 1 score and I'm hoping that I can get some advice on whether or not I should still consider dermatology as a potential career choice. My school offers very little time for electives and only a couple of away rotations, so I need to decide relatively soon if dermatology is still in the cards for me. Pertinent information below:

School: Low-tier state school
Step 1: 246
Step 2: N/A
Class rank: Top 25% (pre-clinical only)
Clinical: N/A
AOA: No
Research: 5 first-author publications in peer-reviewed journals (case studies/literature reviews)
Extracurricular: Volunteer at student clinic regularly; co-leader of dermatology interest group

I realize that my Step 1 score is on the low side for dermatology; the NRMP data suggests that I will be fighting an uphill battle, to say the very least. However, I'm hoping that other factors (and, hopefully, a solid score on Step 2), can help improve my chances.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks!

-Bill

 

[asmallchild]

Hey Everybody,

I just received my Step 1 score and I'm hoping that I can get some advice on whether or not I should still consider dermatology as a potential career choice. My school offers very little time for electives and only a couple of away rotations, so I need to decide relatively soon if dermatology is still in the cards for me. Pertinent information below:

School: Low-tier state school
Step 1: 246
Step 2: N/A
Class rank: Top 25% (pre-clinical only)
Clinical: N/A
AOA: No
Research: 5 first-author publications in peer-reviewed journals (case studies/literature reviews)
Extracurricular: Volunteer at student clinic regularly; co-leader of dermatology interest group

I realize that my Step 1 score is on the low side for dermatology; the NRMP data suggests that I will be fighting an uphill battle, to say the very least. However, I'm hoping that other factors (and, hopefully, a solid score on Step 2), can help improve my chances.

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Thanks!

-Bill

Have you shadowed in clinic at all? Hard to say if it's a potential career choice if you haven't actually been in a derm clinic.

You already know you face an uphill climb in terms of matching for derm but there aren't any red flags. Ace your clinical rotations, grab AOA status, continue with research, rotate well, get great letters and you still stand a pretty good chance.

But before you commit or rule out derm based on statistics, you need to figure out if it's something that interests you first.

 

[BillrothI]

Have you shadowed in clinic at all? Hard to say if it's a potential career choice if you haven't actually been in a derm clinic.

You already know you face an uphill climb in terms of matching for derm but there aren't any red flags. Ace your clinical rotations, grab AOA status, continue with research, rotate well, get great letters and you still stand a pretty good chance.

But before you commit or rule out derm based on statistics, you need to figure out if it's something that interests you first.

Thank you very much for your response.

I should have been more clear: I spent a year shadowing and working in a dermatology clinic in an administrative capacity prior to beginning medical school. I wrote most of the dermatology papers during that time, as one of the physicians allowed me to sit in on interesting cases.

My USMLE score was not what I was hoping for. However, it is encouraging to hear that I a still stand a pretty good chance.

Thanks again.

-Bill

 

[SCCBCCAK]

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[asmallchild]

Rising M3 here.

Step 1: 255

Top 20 school that does not have AOA.

Although pre clinical is P/F, I had one pass with remediation in a one week class- ethics with a really low weight on the class.

If I do well on my clinical, do programs even look at my pre clinical?
Including top programs?

Thanks all!

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

They typically won't. At any rate, it's too late to change it anyway. I would focus on excelling on all your clinical rotations and you should be in good shape

 

[license43]

Hi all, probably a long shot and I don't expect many optimistic answers... but is there a good or decent chance to get into a dermatology residency as a DO student..??

Probably not but worth a try.

If there is a good shot, what should I do apart from dermatology rotations, LOR, personal statements, board scores, research, etc.

 

[asmallchild]

Hi all, probably a long shot and I don't expect many optimistic answers... but is there a good or decent chance to get into a dermatology residency as a DO student..??

Probably not but worth a try.

If there is a good shot, what should I do apart from dermatology rotations, LOR, personal statements, board scores, research, etc.

I would ask around your school for some DO derm mentors as I'm not as familiar with that system. Obviously there are going to be significant changes as well to the overall system with the merger of the MD and DO residencies under the umbrella of the ACGME

If you are asking about DOs matching into current MD programs, then yes, you are facing an uphill climb.

You'll have to ask yourself if you see yourself doing anything else? If so, you should probably pursue that instead.

If your heart is set on derm, I would try and rack up as many honors as you can, I would aim for a high Step 1 score (or its equivalent, I apologize, I am not very familiar with the DO system), I would do as many derm rotations as I could and excel on them all, I would try to accumulate as many great LORs as I could, I would consider taking a research year with a well-known researcher to publish and make connections. Essentially, I would do all the things required to match whether you are an MD or DO student.

 

[anon55]

I've recently become interested in derm, so I'm curious about my chances coming from a low-tier MD school with no home department. Currently finishing up my first rotation as an M3 so no clinical grades yet, but I realize these will be very important.

Step 1: >265
Step 2: N/A
Pre-clinical: all honors
Clinical: N/A
Class rank: top 10%
Research: graduate degree, 2 presentations, 1 poster, 2 abstracts but none of this is in derm

Between my low-ranked school with no home program and no derm-specific research, do I stand a chance? If so, in addition to honoring as many rotations as possible, what should I do going forward?

 

[blackblue]

I've recently become interested in derm, so I'm curious about my chances coming from a low-tier MD school with no home department. Currently finishing up my first rotation as an M3 so no clinical grades yet, but I realize these will be very important.

Step 1: >265
Step 2: N/A
Pre-clinical: all honors
Clinical: N/A
Class rank: top 10%
Research: masters degree from a top university with a published thesis, 2 presentations, 1 poster, 2 abstracts but none of this is in derm

Between my low-ranked school with no home program and no derm-specific research, do I stand a chance? If so, in addition to honoring as many rotations as possible, what should I do going forward?

You're fine in terms of numbers. Of course honor as many clerkships during M3 year that you can. Because you don't have a home program, you'll need to do at least 2 aways but more preferably, 3. Has anyone from your school matched in derm recently? I would rotate at a program that has a history of taking someone from your school and two other programs you're interested in, preferably ones that interview rotators. In terms of research, are there nearby med schools with derm programs? Try to get connected with someone there to get started on something soon.

 

[anon55]

You're fine in terms of numbers. Of course honor as many clerkships during M3 year that you can. Because you don't have a home program, you'll need to do at least 2 aways but more preferably, 3. Has anyone from your school matched in derm recently? I would rotate at a program that has a history of taking someone from your school and two other programs you're interested in, preferably ones that interview rotators. In terms of research, are there nearby med schools with derm programs? Try to get connected with someone there to get started on something soon.

Thanks for the reply and advice! We've had a couple people match derm over the past couple years, and I'll definitely plan on trying to do aways where they have matched. Is there any official log of programs that typically interview rotators or would I need to just ask around for that info? As far as nearby derm programs, there aren't really any within a reasonable distance, but there are a couple of research projects that are ongoing in dermatopathology through the path department at my school, would that be worth pursuing or do I really need to find something through a derm department? Thanks again!

 

[blackblue]

Thanks for the reply and advice! We've had a couple people match derm over the past couple years, and I'll definitely plan on trying to do aways where they have matched. Is there any official log of programs that typically interview rotators or would I need to just ask around for that info? As far as nearby derm programs, there aren't really any within a reasonable distance, but there are a couple of research projects that are ongoing in dermatopathology through the path department at my school, would that be worth pursuing or do I really need to find something through a derm department? Thanks again!

You can look at the old Derm Spreadsheets (unfortunately don't have the links to them anymore, but I believe searching through or looking for the current one would have the info you need) to look at what programs interview their rotators. Dermpath is a good option; they typically have some interesting case reports that just need a med student to take the time to write it up. You could also reach out to the alums who matched and see who they worked with when they were med students. Good luck! You've set yourself up quite well thus far, so keep it up!

 

[mrbreakfast]

Just started M3, was always interested in derm but didn't look into it much because I didn't think I could get the Step score for it (which turned out to be true, statistics-wise). However, our academic adviser told me to go for it as my school has matched 3 students to derm with low-240s scores and one with a mid-230s(!) in the past two years.

Step I: 241. I know how much lower this is than the derm average.

Pre-clinicals: probably top 20-25% of class

Clinicals: we're 3 weeks in, so...

Research: 2 pubs (2nd author), working on 2 first-authors now. 3 first-author posters, 8 2nd/3rd author posters (I do data analysis for the group, not sure if these count for anything though). All surgery-related. Currently involved in basic science lab that will likely result in publications, past work in another basic science lab (summer) that may/may not result in future credit, working on 3 other projects that are maybes for eventual publication (mostly patient/physician satisfaction). Zero derm research.

My question: I can probably get another 2+ pubs and a few more posters with my current groups this year, and more if I join other groups (I don't do many extracurriculars). Assuming I start derm research, etc, do I even have a shot with this Step score? The other fields I'm interested in are competitive enough that I would prefer to focus on just one thing, and don't want to chase futility...

Thanks. ps: we do not have a derm program at my institution.

 

[asmallchild]

Just started M3, was always interested in derm but didn't look into it much because I didn't think I could get the Step score for it (which turned out to be true, statistics-wise). However, our academic adviser told me to go for it as my school has matched 3 students to derm with low-240s scores and one with a mid-230s(!) in the past two years.

Step I: 241. I know how much lower this is than the derm average.

Pre-clinicals: probably top 20-25% of class

Clinicals: we're 3 weeks in, so...

Research: 2 pubs (2nd author), working on 2 first-authors now. 3 first-author posters, 8 2nd/3rd author posters (I do data analysis for the group, not sure if these count for anything though). All surgery-related. Currently involved in basic science lab that will likely result in publications, past work in another basic science lab (summer) that may/may not result in future credit, working on 3 other projects that are maybes for eventual publication (mostly patient/physician satisfaction). Zero derm research.

My question: I can probably get another 2+ pubs and a few more posters with my current groups this year, and more if I join other groups (I don't do many extracurriculars). Assuming I start derm research, etc, do I even have a shot with this Step score? The other fields I'm interested in are competitive enough that I would prefer to focus on just one thing, and don't want to chase futility...

Thanks. ps: we do not have a derm program at my institution.

You do have a shot but as you already know, it's an uphill climb. A Step 1 score of 240 will get you past most of the filters out there but the average Step 1 score has crept into the 250s. You also have no derm-specific research and no home program which is also working against you.

That being said, your Step 1 score is still above the national average. You'll need to rock your clinical rotations. AOA would be helpful. I think you definitely need some derm-specific research and a year off to pursue this might be a good idea. Beyond that, you'll want to do as many derm electives as you can, get some great letters, apply broadly, and you definitely have a shot.

How badly do you want to be a dermatologist? I think that's the biggest question you'll need to answer.

 

[Magneto1]

Anybody know if there's a resource that has specific program LOR requirements? For example, if 3 or 4 letters are required, and if ALL letters have to be from Dermatologists, etc?

 

[asmallchild]

Anybody know if there's a resource that has specific program LOR requirements? For example, if 3 or 4 letters are required, and if ALL letters have to be from Dermatologists, etc?

Unfortunately, unless things have changed, I believe you'll need to visit each program website individually to find out their requirements

 

[Tungsten5]

School: Mid-tier state school
Step 1: 252
Step 2: Taking in late fall
GPA/Class Rank/Pre-Clinical/AOA: School does not participate in AOA, has unranked and ungraded pre-clinical. I should be in second quartile however at the least for third year.
Clinicals:
Honored Surgery, IM, Neuro (No high pass at my school)
Research:
1.) 1 non-derm non-first author paper accepted
2.) 3 'weak' derm first author papers that are not accepted yet anywhere and probably won't be before ERAS subsmission. (They are not clinical or basic science... hard to explain without giving myself away)
3.) Non-derm poster from college that was not published
EC:
Volunteered a fair amount
LORs:
Home-run, amazing neuro letter that I understand I probably can't use
Good IM letter
One very good Derm letter from academic attending at home program
Possibly another letter coming from home program, likely middle of the road letter

...and that's it so far. I'm praying I can get one good one from this busy away I just started, as it seems like you need 3 derm letters?

What are my chances?

 

[spartan564]

I took the exam in December, I got a 243 on UWSA (I thought there was only one?) two weeks out, and 250 on the real deal. I think you'll be fine. Just relax for the rest of the day

Not that it really matters, but just good evidence for everyone that peruses these threads and gets discouraged seeing other people's step scores / stats. Poster claims step 1 over 265 here but reports 250 in an old thread. Dont believe everything you read, same goes for the derm spreadsheets where people put their stats in. Dont get me wrong, there are superstars like myself out there but... : )

 

[username456789]

Not that it really matters, but just good evidence for everyone that peruses these threads and gets discouraged seeing other people's step scores / stats. Poster claims step 1 over 265 here but reports 250 in an old thread. Dont believe everything you read, same goes for the derm spreadsheets where people put their stats in. Dont get me wrong, there are superstars like myself out there but... : )

I don't see anywhere on this thread where he claimed to have a score >265. He did recently reply to another poster, anon55, who claimed to have scored >265.

 

[scrappylemur]

Honest feedback on my chances would be greatly appreciated

I attended a 6 year medical program overseas. I'd come to Dermatology late, deciding around April of my final year, when I did an away derm rotation in the states. currently researching with faculty (1 year retrospective chart review) from that rotation while I apply for match.

US IMG: graduated 2017
Step 1: 250's
Step 2CK: 250's
Step 2CS: pass
AOA/grades: N/A
USCE: 5 months rotations in US, only one in derm. Maybe 4 US Letters, 1-2 of which I'd say are "strong".
Research: A couple non-consequential papers from other specialties. Derm: 2 case reports submitted, 1 poster presentation. Currently undertaking 1 year of visiting research, likely to submit 2 retrospective cohort papers before application time.

how many interviews would this resume garner you think? (besides the one guaranteed at the away rotation). I think I'd do decently at interviews, but if i just get 1 or 2 (applying broadly), it does seem like a pipedream.

Also, I'm debating in the likely chance I don't match, whether to just take a Prelim/TY year and reapply the next year, or go the research fellowship route. Thoughts?

 

[asmallchild]

School: Mid-tier state school
Step 1: 252
Step 2: Taking in late fall
GPA/Class Rank/Pre-Clinical/AOA: School does not participate in AOA, has unranked and ungraded pre-clinical. I should be in second quartile however at the least for third year.
Clinicals:
Honored Surgery, IM, Neuro (No high pass at my school)
Research:
1.) 1 non-derm non-first author paper accepted
2.) 3 'weak' derm first author papers that are not accepted yet anywhere and probably won't be before ERAS subsmission. (They are not clinical or basic science... hard to explain without giving myself away)
3.) Non-derm poster from college that was not published
EC:
Volunteered a fair amount
LORs:
Home-run, amazing neuro letter that I understand I probably can't use
Good IM letter
One very good Derm letter from academic attending at home program
Possibly another letter coming from home program, likely middle of the road letter

...and that's it so far. I'm praying I can get one good one from this busy away I just started, as it seems like you need 3 derm letters?

What are my chances?

You should be in good shape, I would continue to work on research, get at least 1 more derm letter, and be sure to apply broadly. Good luck!

 

[asmallchild]

Honest feedback on my chances would be greatly appreciated

I attended a 6 year medical program overseas. I'd come to Dermatology late, deciding around April of my final year, when I did an away derm rotation in the states. currently researching with faculty (1 year retrospective chart review) from that rotation while I apply for match.

US IMG: graduated 2017
Step 1: 250's
Step 2CK: 250's
Step 2CS: pass
AOA/grades: N/A
USCE: 5 months rotations in US, only one in derm. Maybe 4 US Letters, 1-2 of which I'd say are "strong".
Research: A couple non-consequential papers from other specialties. Derm: 2 case reports submitted, 1 poster presentation. Currently undertaking 1 year of visiting research, likely to submit 2 retrospective cohort papers before application time.

how many interviews would this resume garner you think? (besides the one guaranteed at the away rotation). I think I'd do decently at interviews, but if i just get 1 or 2 (applying broadly), it does seem like a pipedream.

Also, I'm debating in the likely chance I don't match, whether to just take a Prelim/TY year and reapply the next year, or go the research fellowship route. Thoughts?

I think you are facing an uphill battle. IMGs unfortunately just aren't well-positioned for derm. What I would focus on instead of how many interviews you would garner is the quality of the interviews you garner.

Your best chance to match is likely with the program you're doing research with. Do they have a good track history of taking their research fellows? How about IMGs?

I would also target aways that have a history of extending interview invites to their rotators as well as taking IMGs

In the event you do not match, I would not recommend simply reapplying. I would do another research fellowship, again targeting programs that have a strong history of taking their own research fellows and taking IMGs.

 

[Dermbattle2018]

Last month I published an article into a derm journal and i think it may help some bit with my chances of matching.

Unfortunately, the publisher asks that I not disclose that it has been accepted until a much later day when it comes out in print (way after ERAS in submitted). Is there a way that Derm applicants handle this situation? can I say a manuscript was "accepted" but not put in details about the journal or article into ERAS?

 

[asmallchild]

Last month I published an article into a derm journal and i think it may help some bit with my chances of matching.

Unfortunately, the publisher asks that I not disclose that it has been accepted until a much later day when it comes out in print (way after ERAS in submitted). Is there a way that Derm applicants handle this situation? can I say a manuscript was "accepted" but not put in details about the journal or article into ERAS?

I would probably just leave it off your CV.

I don't think it is helpful to list a manuscript that is accepted if you cannot disclose anything about it.

 

[Clark Gable]

School: Top 20 program
Step 1: 265
Step 2: 278
Clinic: All honors, but no away rotations.
Research: 3 1st author derm papers currently under review, 1 oral presentation at national conference, 1 non-derm paper.
Will require work visa.

 

[Mohsaic]

School: Top 20 program
Step 1: 265
Step 2: 278
Clinic: All honors, but no away rotations.
Research: 3 1st author derm papers currently under review, 1 oral presentation at national conference, 1 non-derm paper.
Will require work visa.

I want to think you'll match and probably at a pretty good program. Hard to say how the visa will affect you, and I only say that because I know of great applicants in other competitive fields who didn't match and the only reason seemed to be the visa. I still have a hard time believing you wouldn't though. Just apply a bit more broadly than you otherwise would.