Optometrists that make a low income, say $55k/year, are true optometrists.

[megaton]

Over the past few days, I have come to question as to why students go to optometry school. Accumulating debt is an issue, but accumulating enough debt to not live comfortably due to the low salary offered shows true passion by that Optometrist.

Eye care is vital to America, and Optometrists who go out of their way to earn a low paying degree are essentially role models for us.

I'd like to dedicate this thread to the doctors of tomorow who are willing to to work for $55,000 dollars annually or $26 dollars/hour so that they can succesfully administer 60 exams per day in any given day of the week.

Here are some of the great individuals, whom I hope to follow and whom you should follow:


"I'll live fine with my future 55k net salary and my 150k debt to the penny."

-thenotriousfob

"I'm willing to accrue $180K of debt and go through 8 years of college to make $55K afterwards."

-captainnerd

On the other hand, some soon to be doctors display their greed and are only after the already difficult to find salary.

"I am so sick of reading about salaries in the 45-50k range."

-jupiterOD

"if you spent six figures and eight years of your life to become essentially a technician, it might be pretty hard to face facts that the AOA and the optometric colleges have grossly misrepresented the profession of optometry."

-saveyourself


I hope students make a smart decision after reading some comments from other students and doctors.

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[JMU07]

Um. You're not very good at detecting sarcasm are you?

Mods, you should just close this now, as it's just going to turn into another pointless thread.

 

[jymezg]

Taken from Pre-Allopathic [ MD ] Forum:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=529259



Trolls do it for the attention. If they don't get attention they get really, really annoyed. It's probably because they were ignored as children, have small genitalia, have a face that not even a dog could love, or some such combination of the above.

We're working on dealing with this issue. In the meantime, you guys have a fantastic way to help yourselves deal with assclowns such as this guy. It's called the ignore button. To wit:

o Find the user that you don't want to hear from, and click on the user's name.
o click on Add User X to your Ignore List
o Reload the page you were originally viewing
o Voila! No more assclown. (It's as if their posts never existed)

Remember, as tempting as it is to get all inflamed with guys like this....you hurt them worse by annoying them. Hope this helps. Also, this button is your friend

Trolls are considered "problematic".

Reported posts are viewed for consideration, whereas in-thread complaints may be overlooked. Do not use the Report button for frivolous complaining, but if you feel strongly justified in your belief that a poster is TROLLING, please alert the Moderators by reporting.

 

[captainnerd]

You misquoted me. I said I was willing to accrue 180K and go through 8 years of schooling to make 55K afterwards only if my line of work involves punching penguins in the face. Because let's face it, that would be totally rewarding.

I'm having more fun reading this than reading Styleforum.net. I'm not adding him to my ignore list, he seems to be a paragon of intelligence.

 

[megaton]

So, is anyone else going into Optometry so they can accumulate $150,000 in student loans over the span of four years just so they can earn $55,000 per year after graduating?

* I'm hardly a troll. I am just asking a valid question, which some of you interpret as an insult.

 

[megaton]

You misquoted me. I said I was willing to accrue 180K and go through 8 years of schooling to make 55K afterwards only if my line of work involves punching penguins in the face. Because let's face it, that would be totally rewarding.

I'm having more fun reading this than reading Styleforum.net. I'm not adding him to my ignore list, he seems to be a paragon of intelligence.

Actually, I stated exactly what you said.

I'd like to applaud you for admitting that OD's do get paid $55,000 per year after going through 8 years of schooling and accumulating $160,000 plus interest during those 8 years. But, I mean, if you have a passion for asking patients, "what is better, 1 or 2?" than its all good.

And by the way, you must be an ugly beast if you read anything at styleforum.net. Just saying.

 

[megaton]

Taken from Pre-Allopathic [ MD ] Forum:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=529259



Trolls do it for the attention. If they don't get attention they get really, really annoyed. It's probably because they were ignored as children, have small genitalia, have a face that not even a dog could love, or some such combination of the above.

We're working on dealing with this issue. In the meantime, you guys have a fantastic way to help yourselves deal with assclowns such as this guy. It's called the ignore button. To wit:

o Find the user that you don't want to hear from, and click on the user's name.
o click on Add User X to your Ignore List
o Reload the page you were originally viewing
o Voila! No more assclown. (It's as if their posts never existed)

Remember, as tempting as it is to get all inflamed with guys like this....you hurt them worse by annoying them. Hope this helps. Also, this button is your friend

Trolls are considered "problematic".

Reported posts are viewed for consideration, whereas in-thread complaints may be overlooked. Do not use the Report button for frivolous complaining, but if you feel strongly justified in your belief that a poster is TROLLING, please alert the Moderators by reporting.

You need to relax.

Firstly, you got this from the MD thread. There are actual reasons for trolls to exist in the md forums. Optometry is so dry that even a million trolls could not cause tension.

Secondly, the person who has set the characteristics of a typical troll, was one to begin with. He or she had been ignored as a child, is ugly and has small genitilia. Basically, an ugly, sex deprived child has told you what to do and you are following his or her commands.

Thirdly, you can look at my posts. I've provided reasons for my arguments, and am not just simply asserting various ideas here and there as a troll would. Heck, I'm only posting about one issue on one thread which deals with one question. It's not my fault people, such as captinnerd try to make this situation more than it actually is.

Have a nice day.

 

[PodunkUDPM]

So, is anyone else going into Optometry so they can accumulate $150,000 in student loans over the span of four years just so they can earn $55,000 per year after graduating?

* I'm hardly a troll. I am just asking a valid question, which some of you interpret as an insult.

You are 100% troll. Any ***** knows that a grad straight out optometry school will most likely be making from 80-100,000/year. (Unless they start their own practice, but that is a whole other issue). Furthermore, 150,000 in loans seems like a high estimate but would not be a burden in anyway to said grad.

I don't know how the optometry posters put up with this megaton *****. He just keeps spamming the same unfounded statements with the assumption that the more times he posts the same thing, the more true that statement becomes. He sounds like someone who got rejected from optometry school or booted out and can't face facts. Sad story, but I'm about to go berserk. Kudos to all you opt. posters who can keep your cool.

 

[Commando303]

Over the past few days, I have come to question as to why students go to optometry school. Accumulating debt is an issue, but accumulating enough debt to not live comfortably due to the low salary offered shows true passion by that Optometrist.

Eye care is vital to America, and Optometrists who go out of their way to earn a low paying degree are essentially role models for us.

I'd like to dedicate this thread to the doctors of tomorow who are willing to to work for $55,000 dollars annually or $26 dollars/hour so that they can succesfully administer 60 exams per day in any given day of the week.

Here are some of the great individuals, whom I hope to follow and whom you should follow:


"I'll live fine with my future 55k net salary and my 150k debt to the penny."

-thenotriousfob

"I'm willing to accrue $180K of debt and go through 8 years of college to make $55K afterwards."

-captainnerd

On the other hand, some soon to be doctors display their greed and are only after the already difficult to find salary.

"I am so sick of reading about salaries in the 45-50k range."

-jupiterOD

"if you spent six figures and eight years of your life to become essentially a technician, it might be pretty hard to face facts that the AOA and the optometric colleges have grossly misrepresented the profession of optometry."

-saveyourself


I hope students make a smart decision after reading some comments from other students and doctors.

I'm not sure what your goal is, here. Either you're thinking no prospective optometrist has thought his or her plan through, or you're bitter about having chosen the wrong profession, yourself. Your previous thread was shut down by forum administration, so you've started it again, here (kid no one: this is the same thread). That doesn't seem like a strategy to "enlighten" people about anything; it looks like either frustration at not having been agreed with initially, or petty trolling. Which is it?

 

[megaton]

You are 100% troll. Any ***** knows that a grad straight out optometry school will most likely be making from 80-100,000/year. (Unless they start their own practice, but that is a whole other issue). Furthermore, 150,000 in loans seems like a high estimate but would not be a burden in anyway to said grad.


I don't know how the optometry posters put up with this megaton *****. He just keeps spamming the same unfounded statements with the assumption that the more times he posts the same thing, the more true that statement becomes. He sounds like someone who got rejected from optometry school or booted out and can't face facts. Sad story, but I'm about to go berserk. Kudos to all you opt. posters who can keep your cool.

You're a soon-to-be podiatrist commenting on optometry. Read the intial post, and realize where you are wrong. I welcome inputs from students of other disciplines, but please try to understand the intial arugment(s). You've succesfully been admitted to a doctorate program, so why not try to act more mature, instead of acting like a maniac who does not know what he or she is talking about.

I've clearly backed up my original statement by providing quotations from other students and current doc's that would be fine with a 55k salary and 150k in debt, which implys that OD's do infact make that much.

 

[megaton]

I'm not sure what your goal is, here. Either you're thinking no prospective optometrist has thought his or her plan through, or you're bitter about having chosen the wrong profession, yourself. Your previous thread was shut down by forum administration, so you've started it again, here (kid no one: this is the same thread). That doesn't seem like a strategy to "enlighten" people about anything; it looks like either frustration at not having been agreed with initially, or petty trolling. Which is it?

This thread was created before the other thread was even closed. I decided to create this thread, as the other thread was getting to long and people were replying with opinions irrelavant to the topic. Though, there are still some posters here who have nothing better to do than to ruin a perfectly legitimate discussion.

 

[PodunkUDPM]

You're a soon-to-be podiatrist commenting on optometry. Read the intial post, and realize where you are wrong. I welcome inputs from students of other disciplines, but please try to understand the intial arugment(s). You've succesfully been admitted to a doctorate program, so why not try to act more mature, instead of acting like a maniac who does not know what he or she is talking about.

I've clearly backed up my original statement by providing quotations from other students and current doc's that would be fine with a 55k salary and 150k in debt, which implys that OD's do infact make that much.

I'm not wrong and I know exactly what I'm talking about. I personally know a few optometrists and have discussed facts such as their starting salaries, contracts, benefits etc. with them. I know for a fact that most people in corporate optometry will start in an 80-100,000 base salary range with the possibility of benefits and bonuses. I also know that there is potential for that salary to increase over the coming years to upwards of 120,000. The only situation in which a recent optometry grad would be fine with a 55,000 dollar BASE salary is signing into a private practice. It seems like a low salary to START at but once you get into the practice and become a partner you will be making MUCH more money. These are simple facts. I suggest you research more and take the advice from people on these boards. They know infinitely more than you probably ever will about optometry and the profession and you could learn a thing or two from them. I suggest you post less and lurk more. Maybe one day you will graduate from some type of school and you will become an expert. Then it will be YOUR turn to give advice. Until then, good luck.

 

[jvelos3]

I've clearly backed up my original statement by providing quotations from other students and current doc's that would be fine with a 55k salary and 150k in debt, which implys that OD's do infact make that much.

They said that to shut you up...but unfortunately it appears like it didn't work.

 

[Commando303]

This thread was created before the other thread was even closed. I decided to create this thread, as the other thread was getting to long and people were replying with opinions irrelavant to the topic. Though, there are still some posters here who have nothing better to do than to ruin a perfectly legitimate discussion.

So, was it created in anticipation of the other's being closed? If not, why did you start two threads on one topic, especially as the other seemed to be popular? This isn't a legitimate "discussion"; you've seen to it that nothing be discussed. This is a fight, and we're having it either because you're a troll and we're happily being sucked into your pleasure, or because you're a bitter person with nothing better to do and we're stubborn people with nothing better to do. This is a fight in which you say "Optometrists don't get paid six figures!" and others say either "Yes, they do!" or "So, what!" and you reply, "Optometrists don't get paid six figures!" That's not legitimate; certainly it's no sort of discussion.

If you're sincere in your wondering why someone would spend so much for an education leading to a job that pays a given amount, I'll (again) address you, here. If you respond to my points, you might be sincere; if you ignore them, quote something inflammatory, and re-state your original point ("OPTOMETRISTS DON'T MAKE SIX FIGURES!"), likely, you're taking a stroll away from your bridge.

1. People don't pursue vocations, invariably, for the money to be found in them. Perhaps a person is genuinely interested in the field of optometry and realizes, to be part of it, he or she must be educated and certified. He or she attends a proper school, acquires an appropriate education, takes the necessary examination, and proceeds to enter the field in which he or she was interested.

2. You take as given that one will be indebted in the amount of ~$150,000 from the cost of optometry education (you do so in your previous/identical thread, so don't ask for a citation). Ohio State University (among the mid-range schools of its kind, in terms of tuition) asks for <$19,000 a year from its in-state students; times four takes it to $78,000. Where's the rest of your computation coming from?

3. You cite eight years of school several times. How have you concluded that the initial four years of undergraduate study are tied to the profession of optometry? From this logic, you might as well throw in the time from high school down to day-care as having been lead-ups to becoming an eye-doctor.

4. Whence are you gaining your "$55,000/year income" figure? We're to be rational about all this, are we not? You can find for me an ad. that offers its optometrist $20,000/year and ask why anyone would seek such a position. Let's use our heads and assume mean/median values for salaries. Still, there's difference between those applied to persons straight out of school and those to doctors with some years' experience. Take your pick: neither will coincide with $55,000 annually.

5. You assume any student will pay for optometry education through loans, while, really, any number would receive non-interest assistance and/or foot some of the bill out-of-pocket.

Answer these five points not to prove your side of the argument, but just to show you're not dlcking around, OK?

 

[captainnerd]

I've clearly backed up my original statement by providing quotations from other students and current doc's that would be fine with a 55k salary and 150k in debt, which implys that OD's do infact make that much.

Okay, I was under the impression that optometrists were people who punched penguins in the face. I had no idea it's a primary eye doctor. You quoted someone who is obviously confused about what he wants to do as a career.

So to answer your question, would I go through 8 years of school, accrue $180K of debt to make $55K/year as an eye doctor? No.

But would I go through 8 years of school, accrue $180K of debt to make $55K/year as someone who punches penguins in the face? Yes. There's gotta be a name for this profession, yes?

I just looked up the least biased data for income. The govt's bureau of labor statistics. Now, I know how things work. There are many optometrists who underreport their income. My optometrist told me that when he was a volunteer, he volunteered for an optometrist who kept two ledgers.

The median income for salaried optometrists (read, the newbies) was $86K. The median income for self-employed optos was $105K. This is for 2006. Calculate in about 9% inflation, and you'll get about $114K for 2009. Median for all optos was 91K in 2006. This is the same year Megaton claims he saw the add for 55K.

Of course, if you speak with Megaton, he'll tell you that optometrists' earnings don't rise with inflation. I made perfectly clear in another post that that is just utter stupid. If your earnings don't account for inflation, then you're operating in a black hole in the economic universe. It would be like living in 2009 and still accepting seashells as currency.

data: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos073.htm

The mean for 2007 is 102K.
The median for 2007 is 94K.

Best state to operate: Vermont mean for 2007 is $166K.
Worst: Idaho? $49K

data: http://data.bls.gov/oes/datatype.do (you gotta play with the data sets and select states you want to see. Or click all states).

So a better question would be: would you want to go through 9 years of school, accrue $200K of school debt, to make only $49K per year? No.

 

[moniopt]

YA this 55K a year is full of B.S. unless you dont work half the year or some other circumstances. My optometrist works for himself in a small shop in the mall and he currently has 20,000 patients on file. Even if he sees half of those people that is 10,000*$80= 1.6 millions and even make it worse if he sees 5000 thats still $400,000 earnings. so if tax is taken away he still makes a large sum of money and he only does eye exams and sells contacts. i really just think its about location and your enthusiam as a doctor and business person. Also his charge is on the cheaper end other optometrists charge $95 a visit. I dont know about usa but this is the reality in canada! also you debt will be payed off quick when in 2006 a government survey was posted that after 6 months of graduation all optometrists were making at least $86,000. thats just my input.

 

[megaton]

I'm not wrong and I know exactly what I'm talking about. I personally know a few optometrists and have discussed facts such as their starting salaries, contracts, benefits etc. with them. I know for a fact that most people in corporate optometry will start in an 80-100,000 base salary range with the possibility of benefits and bonuses. I also know that there is potential for that salary to increase over the coming years to upwards of 120,000. The only situation in which a recent optometry grad would be fine with a 55,000 dollar BASE salary is signing into a private practice. It seems like a low salary to START at but once you get into the practice and become a partner you will be making MUCH more money. These are simple facts. I suggest you research more and take the advice from people on these boards. They know infinitely more than you probably ever will about optometry and the profession and you could learn a thing or two from them. I suggest you post less and lurk more. Maybe one day you will graduate from some type of school and you will become an expert. Then it will be YOUR turn to give advice. Until then, good luck.

Alright, so if Optometry is so good, as you have repeatdely stated, then why did you not pursue it?

You say corporate docs make more money then what i have quoted, but you fail to mention they are required to work weekends and/or conduct 60+ exams/day.

All I have done here is make it clear what others have said. A recent grad even stated he or she was tired of finding work that paid 50-60k annually. If you are still not convinced, go read saveyourself's posts.

 

[megaton]

They said that to shut you up...but unfortunately it appears like it didn't work.

It has clearly worked.

 

[megaton]

So, was it created in anticipation of the other's being closed? If not, why did you start two threads on one topic, especially as the other seemed to be popular? This isn't a legitimate "discussion"; you've seen to it that nothing be discussed. This is a fight, and we're having it either because you're a troll and we're happily being sucked into your pleasure, or because you're a bitter person with nothing better to do and we're stubborn people with nothing better to do. This is a fight in which you say "Optometrists don't get paid six figures!" and others say either "Yes, they do!" or "So, what!" and you reply, "Optometrists don't get paid six figures!" That's not legitimate; certainly it's no sort of discussion.

If you're sincere in your wondering why someone would spend so much for an education leading to a job that pays a given amount, I'll (again) address you, here. If you respond to my points, you might be sincere; if you ignore them, quote something inflammatory, and re-state your original point ("OPTOMETRISTS DON'T MAKE SIX FIGURES!"), likely, you're taking a stroll away from your bridge.

1. People don't pursue vocations, invariably, for the money to be found in them. Perhaps a person is genuinely interested in the field of optometry and realizes, to be part of it, he or she must be educated and certified. He or she attends a proper school, acquires an appropriate education, takes the necessary examination, and proceeds to enter the field in which he or she was interested.


2. You take as given that one will be indebted in the amount of ~$150,000 from the cost of optometry education (you do so in your previous/identical thread, so don't ask for a citation). Ohio State University (among the mid-range schools of its kind, in terms of tuition) asks for <$19,000 a year from its in-state students; times four takes it to $78,000. Where's the rest of your computation coming from?


3. You cite eight years of school several times. How have you concluded that the initial four years of undergraduate study are tied to the profession of optometry? From this logic, you might as well throw in the time from high school down to day-care as having been lead-ups to becoming an eye-doctor.

4. Whence are you gaining your "$55,000/year income" figure? We're to be rational about all this, are we not? You can find for me an ad. that offers its optometrist $20,000/year and ask why anyone would seek such a position. Let's use our heads and assume mean/median values for salaries. Still, there's difference between those applied to persons straight out of school and those to doctors with some years' experience. Take your pick: neither will coincide with $55,000 annually.

You assume any student will pay for optometry education through loans, while, really, any number would receive non-interest assistance and/or foot some of the bill out-of-pocket.

Answer these five points not to prove your side of the argument, but just to show you're not dlcking around, OK?

1. I doubt that. If one is so interested in vision, why not become an optician, or an opthalmologist? Because opticians get paid less, and opthalmologists go to school longer and have larger debts. If money was not the important factor, then everyone who had a genuine interest in vision would become an optician.

2. Private schools. And there are some public schools that have higher tuition. Most students end up moving to whichever state the school is in, so there are more costs. Basically, it is like living on your own. That $150k estimate was sincere; it is more than likely to go up to 200k.

3. Most students who enter optometry school do so with a Bachelors degree. It is a requirement. You must have an undergraduate degree to graduate from optometry school. (there are some cases where students marticulate w/o a degree, but that is a waste of time)

4. The lowest salary offered to an Optometrist should never be close to $55,000 per year on a full-time basis. Thats just insulting.
No dentist, pharmacist or even a family doctor takes home 55k, yet OD's who are just as equally educated are happy with that amount (as stated in the intial post).

People who think I am dicking around are just lying to themselves.

 

[blysssful]

Alright, so if Optometry is so good, as you have repeatdely stated, then why did you not pursue it?

You say corporate docs make more money then what i have quoted, but you fail to mention they are required to work weekends and/or conduct 60+ exams/day.

All I have done here is make it clear what others have said. A recent grad even stated he or she was tired of finding work that paid 50-60k annually. If you are still not convinced, go read saveyourself's posts.

Dentistry is a great career but it's not meant for everyone. Same with Podiatry. Same with Optometry. What kind of argument is that?

It is unwise to base your entire decision of the merits of a career off of a handful of dissatisfied individuals. It has been cited several times that individuals who make 45-50K/year are in the LOWEST 10% of the profession, and even those who are making that low of an amount have substantial room for growth. If the average amount ODs make was truly what you state, there would probably be fewer people who would be financially able to go into it, despite their passions. But this isn't the case. It is JUST AS LIKELY for an optometrist to make 50K a year as it is to make above 145K a year, based on the US Bureau of Labor Statistics.

If you wish to make sincere arguments, state valid sources rather than quoting anecdotal values you "read" online, or from some random unhappy optometrist (?) who has done nothing on this forum other than try to push his own agenda.

 

[blysssful]

1. I doubt that. If one is so interested in vision, why not become an optician, or an opthalmologist? Because opticians get paid less, and opthalmologists go to school longer and have larger debts. If money was not the important factor, then everyone who had a genuine interest in vision would become an optician.

Not true. You didn't respond to the extremely reasonable response I gave as to why I'm personally pursuing optometry rather than being an optician or ophthalmologist. Optometrists can have the independence of their own practice and actually treat conditions of the eye. Opticians cannot.

Ophthalmology is a fantastic career, but again, it is not for everyone. I love vision and eyes, but I don't want to put off the rest of my life for an ADDITIONAL 4 years just so I can perform surgeries.

2. Private schools. And there are some public schools that have higher tuition. Most students end up moving to whichever state the school is in, so there are more costs. Basically, it is like living on your own. That $150k estimate was sincere; it is more than likely to go up to 200k.

You're counting living on your own as an expense? What would you be doing otherwise? Would those expenses just be free?

I will not contend that school is expensive, but if you're comparing OD school to other professional schools, it's not nearly as bad.

3. Most students who enter optometry school do so with a Bachelors degree. It is a requirement. You must have an undergraduate degree to graduate from optometry school. (there are some cases where students marticulate w/o a degree, but that is a waste of time)

100% WRONG. A degree is not a requirement at at least 14 of the schools (WAY MORE THAN HALF). "Waste of time" is a subjective opinion. If you want to stick to "facts" here, then stop inputting your biased opinions.

4. The lowest salary offered to an Optometrist should never be close to $55,000 per year on a full-time basis. Thats just insulting.
No dentist, pharmacist or even a family doctor takes home 55k, yet OD's who are just as equally educated are happy with that amount (as stated in the intial post).

People who think I am dicking around are just lying to themselves.

The lowest 10% of dentists make 70K.
The lowest 10% of vets make 44K.
The lowest 10% of pharmacists make 73K.
The lowest 10% of professors make 27K.


VARIABLE amounts.

 

[megaton]

Okay, I was under the impression that optometrists were people who punched penguins in the face. I had no idea it's a primary eye doctor. You quoted someone who is obviously confused about what he wants to do as a career.

So to answer your question, would I go through 8 years of school, accrue $180K of debt to make $55K/year as an eye doctor? No.

But would I go through 8 years of school, accrue $180K of debt to make $55K/year as someone who punches penguins in the face? Yes. There's gotta be a name for this profession, yes?

I just looked up the least biased data for income. The govt's bureau of labor statistics. Now, I know how things work. There are many optometrists who underreport their income. My optometrist told me that when he was a volunteer, he volunteered for an optometrist who kept two ledgers.

The median income for salaried optometrists (read, the newbies) was $86K. The median income for self-employed optos was $105K. This is for 2006. Calculate in about 9% inflation, and you'll get about $114K for 2009. Median for all optos was 91K in 2006. This is the same year Megaton claims he saw the add for 55K.

Of course, if you speak with Megaton, he'll tell you that optometrists' earnings don't rise with inflation. I made perfectly clear in another post that that is just utter stupid. If your earnings don't account for inflation, then you're operating in a black hole in the economic universe. It would be like living in 2009 and still accepting seashells as currency.

data: http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos073.htm

The mean for 2007 is 102K.
The median for 2007 is 94K.

Best state to operate: Vermont mean for 2007 is $166K.
Worst: Idaho? $49K

data: http://data.bls.gov/oes/datatype.do (you gotta play with the data sets and select states you want to see. Or click all states).

So a better question would be: would you want to go through 9 years of school, accrue $200K of school debt, to make only $49K per year? No.

You need the same rate of increase or decrease in your salary as the inflation rate. If you make 10,000 and inflation is up by 10% you need to make 10% more so your purchasing power remains on par. The average salary of an optometrist has been steady over the past 5 years, while inflation has increased.

Froma dated surevy, among all OD's, median net income was $120k in 07 compared with $117k in 04- an increase of 2.6%. BUT, inflation rose ~10% during those years.

So, ODs have lost dollars during those three years. I'll admit was wrong when I said said earnings of ODs dont rise with inflation. I should have said earnings of OD's decrease with inflation.

One could say, after taking into account the above statistics, that OD's are "operating in a black hole in the economic universe." They are "living in 2009 and still accepting seashells as currency."

Well, not exactly seashells. But how about $19.99 for an eye exam, and free frames.

 

[megaton]

YA this 55K a year is full of B.S. unless you dont work half the year or some other circumstances. My optometrist works for himself in a small shop in the mall and he currently has 20,000 patients on file. Even if he sees half of those people that is 10,000*$80= 1.6 millions and even make it worse if he sees 5000 thats still $400,000 earnings. so if tax is taken away he still makes a large sum of money and he only does eye exams and sells contacts. i really just think its about location and your enthusiam as a doctor and business person. Also his charge is on the cheaper end other optometrists charge $95 a visit. I dont know about usa but this is the reality in canada! also you debt will be payed off quick when in 2006 a government survey was posted that after 6 months of graduation all optometrists were making at least $86,000. thats just my input.

Thats just one lucky bastard.

 

[captainnerd]

You need the same rate of increase or decrease in your salary as the inflation rate. If you make 10,000 and inflation is up by 10% you need to make 10% more so your purchasing power remains on par. The average salary of an optometrist has been steady over the past 5 years, while inflation has increased.

Froma dated surevy, among all OD's, median net income was $120k in 07 compared with $117k in 04- an increase of 2.6%. BUT, inflation rose ~10% during those years.

So, ODs have lost dollars during those three years. I'll admit was wrong when I said said earnings of ODs dont rise with inflation. I should have said earnings of OD's decrease with inflation.

One could say, after taking into account the above statistics, that OD's are "operating in a black hole in the economic universe." They are "living in 2009 and still accepting seashells as currency."

Well, not exactly seashells. But how about $19.99 for an eye exam, and free frames.

I don't know where you're getting your numbers, young lady.

But based on 2006 and 2007 data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, where the median went from 91K to 94K, that's an increase of about 3%. Inflation has been historically at 3%. In fact, in recent times, it is probably lower than 3%. Why do you think our govt is printing money without any concerns? If Zimbabwe farmers know how to adjust for inflation, do you think American optometrists would to?

Take a course in economics. Just about every occupation on this planet takes into account inflation. Studies on crows even show that crows will take into account rise of prices of goods and adjust their behavior accordingly. Yes, crows taught how to spend tokens will adjust what they spend their tokens on when prices rise. When humans make more money, the price of goods and services rise. Read my previous post about inflation. Or better yet, take a course in economics and you might be able to grow up to become a smart businessperson instead of crediting everything to luck.

In fact, when I left my job in 2007, my boss had just began investing large amounts in the stock market. I told him it was a stupid move. It had just reached 14,000 Dow and I told him it was not a good sign. He said he couldn't be left out of the boom. I told him about the 1% missing wages phenomenon.

The phenomenon goes like this: historically, the US grows in GDP at about 4% (rounding things) for the past 20 years. Population grows at 1%. So real GDP is 3%. In other words, when we have to feed 1% more people, our real growth is about 3%.

Wage increases have been historically at 3% as well. Whatever we produce, we must consume. However, wages should increase at 4%. It is an economic truth that what we produce, we must consume. If GDP grows at 4%, our wages should rise with 4%. There's a missing 1% that is unaccounted for. Where is it? Nobody knows. Economists predict that it is going overseas.

But now that the markets have gone crazy, there are more reasons to believe that our economy was fake for the past 20 years. Prices for securities had been 1% overinflated. We had been taking our 1% of additional income and raising the prices of securities.

Our real GDP growth was 3% while our wage growth was 3%. We were standing still. And we were throwing away 1% of our income. Japan's 90s were the LOST DECADE? It was also the lost decade here!!!!!!

We screwed up badly.

 

[captainnerd]

Btw, during the crisis in Argentina, people were paid 3 times a day because they wanted their wages adjusted for inflation. And they would literally give their money to their wife. I say literally because the man's wife would accompany her husband to work for the sole purpose of taking the money directly, running down to the market, and buy produce. Primarily, they bought beer. Yes, beer. Because beer takes a long time to brew, the price was stable. It wasn't like bread. They bought beer like they bought securities.

Btw, the inflation rate in Argentina during the crisis was in the hundreds of thousands of %. If millions of Argentines can adjust for inflation 3 times a day at 100,000s% annually, do you think optometrists can?

Here's another funny story about the Argentines: they would use their money as wallpaper. Once, a lady went down to the bread market with a huge basket of paper money. She turned around and someone stole her basket. Just the basket.

Trust me, adjusting for inflation is not something an entire economy calculates in its head. It is something that happens naturally.

 

[captainnerd]

Froma dated surevy, among all OD's, median net income was $120k in 07 compared with $117k in 04- an increase of 2.6%. BUT, inflation rose ~10% during those years.

whoa, whoa, whoa. Slow down there, MacGuyver. Optometrists don't make 120K. They make 55K. And don't forget the 200K of school debt. And the 9 years of schooling.

 

[SarahNC]

How about this: Why pay 250k to go to med school and go to school for 8 years and only make 46,000 when you graduate? The average cost of med school is 40k in tuition and fees alone, although the highest i saw was around 68k in tuition only. Much higher than most OD schools. http://www.aspiringdocs.org/site/c.luIUL9MUJtE/b.2011075/k.5AA9/Financing_Medical_School.htm

And here is average pay rates for a new MD grad:

The 2008 Mean stipends in United States for a MD Resident (also called house-staff) from any specialty were as follows:

• 1st Year (PGY1 / Intern ): $46,000
• 2nd Year (PGY2): $48,000
• 3rd Year (PGY3): $50,000
• 4th Year (PGY4): $52,000/-
• 5th Year (PGY5): $54,100/-
• 6th Year (PGY6): $56,500/-

http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2005/10/residency-salaries.html

Not to mention the hours these residents work. What like 30 hour shifts, 120 hours a week? I don't see any new OD graduates doing that, yet they seem to be making more.

 

[Commando303]

1. I doubt that. If one is so interested in vision, why not become an optician, or an opthalmologist? Because opticians get paid less, and opthalmologists go to school longer and have larger debts. If money was not the important factor, then everyone who had a genuine interest in vision would become an optician.

2. Private schools. And there are some public schools that have higher tuition. Most students end up moving to whichever state the school is in, so there are more costs. Basically, it is like living on your own. That $150k estimate was sincere; it is more than likely to go up to 200k.

3. Most students who enter optometry school do so with a Bachelors degree. It is a requirement. You must have an undergraduate degree to graduate from optometry school. (there are some cases where students marticulate w/o a degree, but that is a waste of time)

4. The lowest salary offered to an Optometrist should never be close to $55,000 per year on a full-time basis. Thats just insulting.
No dentist, pharmacist or even a family doctor takes home 55k, yet OD's who are just as equally educated are happy with that amount (as stated in the intial post).

People who think I am dicking around are just lying to themselves.

1. An optician is different from an ophthalmologist, and both are different from an optometrist. If you're interested in optometry, you pursue optometry: that's why.

2. You're not basing your figure on anything.

3. Yes, you need a Bachelor's to become an optometrist, but you don't pursue one exclusively for optometry. You need a high-school diploma, as well; then, why doesn't it count?

4. You haven't posted any information regarding your $55,000/year figure, and you're no one to decide what the lowest salary for an optometrist ought to be. As well, even if the pay is low, optometry isn't somehow an "unfulfilling" field.

 

[captainnerd]

This thread is more humorous than it is informative.

 

[megaton]

I don't know where you're getting your numbers, young lady.

But based on 2006 and 2007 data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, where the median went from 91K to 94K, that's an increase of about 3%. Inflation has been historically at 3%. In fact, in recent times, it is probably lower than 3%. Why do you think our govt is printing money without any concerns? If Zimbabwe farmers know how to adjust for inflation, do you think American optometrists would to?

Take a course in economics. Just about every occupation on this planet takes into account inflation. Studies on crows even show that crows will take into account rise of prices of goods and adjust their behavior accordingly. Yes, crows taught how to spend tokens will adjust what they spend their tokens on when prices rise. When humans make more money, the price of goods and services rise. Read my previous post about inflation. Or better yet, take a course in economics and you might be able to grow up to become a smart businessperson instead of crediting everything to luck.

In fact, when I left my job in 2007, my boss had just began investing large amounts in the stock market. I told him it was a stupid move. It had just reached 14,000 Dow and I told him it was not a good sign. He said he couldn't be left out of the boom. I told him about the 1% missing wages phenomenon.

The phenomenon goes like this: historically, the US grows in GDP at about 4% (rounding things) for the past 20 years. Population grows at 1%. So real GDP is 3%. In other words, when we have to feed 1% more people, our real growth is about 3%.

Wage increases have been historically at 3% as well. Whatever we produce, we must consume. However, wages should increase at 4%. It is an economic truth that what we produce, we must consume. If GDP grows at 4%, our wages should rise with 4%. There's a missing 1% that is unaccounted for. Where is it? Nobody knows. Economists predict that it is going overseas.

But now that the markets have gone crazy, there are more reasons to believe that our economy was fake for the past 20 years. Prices for securities had been 1% overinflated. We had been taking our 1% of additional income and raising the prices of securities.

Our real GDP growth was 3% while our wage growth was 3%. We were standing still. And we were throwing away 1% of our income. Japan's 90s were the LOST DECADE? It was also the lost decade here!!!!!!

We screwed up badly.

Data is from revoptom.com

You said a job which does not keep up with inflation is crap. Ive prooved, by quoting salary information from revoptom.com, that the salary of OD's has decreased from 04-07, hence not keeping up with inflation.

Is that clear? I'll provide a link to the data if neccessary.

 

[megaton]

How about this: Why pay 250k to go to med school and go to school for 8 years and only make 46,000 when you graduate? The average cost of med school is 40k in tuition and fees alone, although the highest i saw was around 68k in tuition only. Much higher than most OD schools. http://www.aspiringdocs.org/site/c.luIUL9MUJtE/b.2011075/k.5AA9/Financing_Medical_School.htm

And here is average pay rates for a new MD grad:

The 2008 Mean stipends in United States for a MD Resident (also called house-staff) from any specialty were as follows:

• 1st Year (PGY1 / Intern ): $46,000
• 2nd Year (PGY2): $48,000
• 3rd Year (PGY3): $50,000
• 4th Year (PGY4): $52,000/-
• 5th Year (PGY5): $54,100/-
• 6th Year (PGY6): $56,500/-

http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2005/10/residency-salaries.html

Not to mention the hours these residents work. What like 30 hour shifts, 120 hours a week? I don't see any new OD graduates doing that, yet they seem to be making more.

Thanks

First, residents are not practitioners. They are sitll in training just like any other OD in residency.

You have just prooved that even a resident is capabale of making $1000 more than a fully licensed Optometrist who is not in a residency.

As for the hours worked, indeed it is exhausting, but atleast in the end, they are able to pay off their debt quicker, live a better lifestyle, and have a respectfull job.

Not saying OD's are not respected, but the question does come to mind when people go to the optometrist because they have seen a banner, located next to the bags of cheetos, advertising $19.99 for a comprehensive 2 minute exam. Ofcourse, some people will not go in for this type of exam, because its about the eyes. So, the corporate doc must increase his exam fee so he can pay the lease, and take home $200 dollars. However, he is not allowed to because some 21 year old is telling him what he can or can not do. The OD does not care, and raises his exam fees anyhow. Later that month, his contract for $100,000/yr has been terminated, so he is forced to look elsewhere for employment. The next day, he finds this ad in the local newspaper which explcitly states a $55k/year salary for full-time work. He accepts this offer and lives hapily ever after. The End.

^That is why you go through all those hours of work in residency to become an MD.

 

[SarahNC]

First of all, they are indeed MDs when they graduate. My point is the fact that after graduation, they still have very low paying jobs and work much more. According to you, the more school you go to, the easier your job should be. Another point is that within 6 years of graduation OD school, and optom will not be making your quoted 55k. I can see an OD making that their first year out in a saturated area, but beyond that, its not an acceptable pay. You keep quoting this 55k but have no references for it. You have been continuously shown that 55k is not what an Optom makes but you still keep quoting the same rate of pay. And yes after residency, the pay of an MD will substantially go up, but that doesn't mean their quality of life improves.

And I suppose I did "prOOve" that after 6 years of being an overworked underpaid resident, an MD can make 1000 more than the lowest 0.5% of 1st year ODs in the US. Yay for med school. I can't even follow the rest of your illogical argument, it makes no sense. Stop being so hard-headed and accept that you are indeed wrong on this subject. I suspect in any field, people who are actually IN it, probably know more about it. By the way, what field are you interested in? Since you clearly have no clue about what an OD is or does.

 

[megaton]

First of all, they are indeed MDs when they graduate. My point is the fact that after graduation, they still have very low paying jobs and work much more. According to you, the more school you go to, the easier your job should be.

Another point is that within 6 years of graduation OD school, and optom will not be making your quoted 55k. I can see an OD making that their first year out in a saturated area, but beyond that, its not an acceptable pay.


You keep quoting this 55k but have no references for it. You have been continuously shown that 55k is not what an Optom makes but you still keep quoting the same rate of pay. And yes after residency, the pay of an MD will substantially go up, but that doesn't mean their quality of life improves.

And I suppose I did "prOOve" that after 6 years of being an overworked underpaid resident, an MD can make 1000 more than the lowest 0.5% of 1st year ODs in the US. Yay for med school. I can't even follow the rest of your illogical argument, it makes no sense. Stop being so hard-headed and accept that you are indeed wrong on this subject. I suspect in any field, people who are actually IN it, probably know more about it. By the way, what field are you interested in? Since you clearly have no clue about what an OD is or does.

No they don't. The residency is part of their degree. My point is, the more school you go to, the less easier it must be for you to make money, since that is why people go to school in the first place- to make money.

Ofcourse it is not acceptable to be making 55k. I can't seem to find the ad, but clearly, you can see another recent graduate mentioned that he or she is tired of seeing 50-55k jobs. Thats proof.

I have been shown the average, it may or may not be true. If you choose to belive that data, then go ahead. However, be aware that UIC advertised the average salary of an OD to be 160k, and I bet many students belived that.

An MD will never be treated like an optometrist is what I meant, although, it was clearly stated.

Yes, it is pretty sad that a MD resident makes more than an optometrist. Thats what the AOA should say instead of saying the average salary is 120k.

My argument makes perfect sense; why go to school for 8 years and accumulate 150k in debt just to make 55k? I bet that person who saw those ads stating 55k as the salary could better answer this question than anyone on here. You all act like you know what you are talking about, but none of you have graduated. So, I believe I know just about as much as you, about optometry. (As if there was anything to learn about in the first place)

I'll let you all know my choice sooner or later. Not that it matters much.

 

[Tizzle]

Troll.

 

[jvelos3]

Ofcourse it is not acceptable to be making 55k. I can't seem to find the ad, but clearly, you can see another recent graduate mentioned that he or she is tired of seeing 50-55k jobs. Thats proof.

I have looked at JupiterOD's posts but other than the walmart thread...he/she does not mention any low income optometrists. In one of the threads an optometrist mentions that out of school you will be looking at $75k for private and probabaly a little more in commercial. In the walmart thread JupiterOD mentions walmarts pay which was advertised at $60/hr...$120k/yr.

 

[thanotoriousfob]

To anyone reading this thread or ANY thread started by megaton, do not respond to his posts. At first it seemed like he was confused about optometry but it has clearly become obvious that he is a troll with too much free time on his hands. I know many of us here are trying to educate him but if he has it in his mind that optometrists make X amount of money, then so be it. It is not our problem it's his. He will eventually go back to his home under the bridge if people stop feeding him. Let us try not to respond to any of his posts and see what happens. Thanks. :troll:

 

[PodunkUDPM]

No they don't. The residency is part of their degree. My point is, the more school you go to, the less easier it must be for you to make money, since that is why people go to school in the first place- to make money.

Just to clarify, MDs are awarded their degree upon completion of 4 years of school and passing Step I of the USMLE and after taking Step II. Residency is not part of the MD degree, but plays a role in board eligibility and licensing.

 

[Penguin2012]

To anyone reading this thread or ANY thread started by megaton, do not respond to his posts. At first it seemed like he was confused about optometry but it has clearly become obvious that he is a troll with too much free time on his hands. I know many of us here are trying to educate him but if he has it in his mind that optometrists make X amount of money, then so be it. It is not our problem it's his. He will eventually go back to his home under the bridge if people stop feeding him. Let us try not to respond to any of his posts and see what happens. Thanks. :troll:

Excellent post, I have not engaged Megaton once but have read what he says. I am going to give MEgaton my Gochi treatment and basically never read what they post

 

[blysssful]

I have been shown the average, it may or may not be true. If you choose to belive that data, then go ahead. However, be aware that UIC advertised the average salary of an OD to be 160k, and I bet many students belived that.

Why do you believe the salary you saw from some random ad (which was probably negotiable to begin with), but not data provided from the Bureau of Labor Statistics? What purpose would they have in showing inflated salaries?

You are being MORE ignorant than those students who you're mentioning who believed an unverified average of 160k because you're ARGUING like what you saw was fact and negating every other piece of supported evidence.

And as was mentioned before, it doesn't MATTER what you "choose" about optometry, because it will never choose you. You're not qualified for any professional school.

 

[megaton]

Troll.

says the idiot.

 

[megaton]

This thread is more humorous than it is informative.

yeah, so please stop posting in this thread.

 

[megaton]

I have looked at JupiterOD's posts but other than the walmart thread...he/she does not mention any low income optometrists. In one of the threads an optometrist mentions that out of school you will be looking at $75k for private and probabaly a little more in commercial. In the walmart thread JupiterOD mentions walmarts pay which was advertised at $60/hr...$120k/yr.

She/he explictily stated that she/he is TIRED OF SEEING 55K SALARIES.

Stop trying to hide it.

 

[megaton]

Just to clarify, MDs are awarded their degree upon completion of 4 years of school and passing Step I of the USMLE and after taking Step II. Residency is not part of the MD degree, but plays a role in board eligibility and licensing.

Can they practice w/o doing a residency ?

 

[megaton]

Why do you believe the salary you saw from some random ad (which was probably negotiable to begin with), but not data provided from the Bureau of Labor Statistics? What purpose would they have in showing inflated salaries?

You are being MORE ignorant than those students who you're mentioning who believed an unverified average of 160k because you're ARGUING like what you saw was fact and negating every other piece of supported evidence.

And as was mentioned before, it doesn't MATTER what you "choose" about optometry, because it will never choose you. You're not qualified for any professional school.

Because it is part of my argument. Ive already stated that if a university is willing to lie, then why cant the government- the mother of liars.

Supported evidence my *****. Only a student would use data, graphs and like as "supported evidence." Go talk to every optometrist in the nation and tell me if even one nets 55k. That is evidence.

Can you stop attacking me with every post? Jeez, you have said it once already and there is no point on restating it as it gets more and more irrelavant. But, it is rather funny.

 

[megaton]

To anyone reading this thread or ANY thread started by megaton, do not respond to his posts. At first it seemed like he was confused about optometry but it has clearly become obvious that he is a troll with too much free time on his hands. I know many of us here are trying to educate him but if he has it in his mind that optometrists make X amount of money, then so be it. It is not our problem it's his. He will eventually go back to his home under the bridge if people stop feeding him. Let us try not to respond to any of his posts and see what happens. Thanks. :troll:

thanks for responding to my post.

btw, hows that 55k/yr working out for ya?

 

[cpw]

this thread has racked up an unprecedented 15 reported posts. Closing