Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery Private Practice Income

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alpha2716

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If I start a practice in a city with 200,000+ people, how much money can I expect to take home those first few years. It frightens me really. What if barely any people come to me. Or what if later down the road a recession happens and I'm in a lot of debt and my income changes from $200,000 to $95,000 and I can't pay for everything. Or as soon as I start my practice can I expect a lot of customers to come to my practice? Can I expect pulling in $200,000+ that first year. Can I have some Advice, Comments, Consultation, etc.​

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Are you about to finish OMFS residency?
 
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so which is it? inquiring minds wanna know
 
so which is it? inquiring minds wanna know

Ok you got me I'm not I'm exploring, but please save all that crap about you have plenty of time to decide, don't worry about it, etc.
 
No career is "safe". Having said that, OMS is probably the safest you can find these days in dentistry (aside from pedo). If you're doing it for the money, you're honestly going to hate yourself. Judging by your previous posts, you may want to think long and hard about your decision.
 
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No career is "safe". Having said that, OMS is probably the safest you can find these days in dentistry (aside from pedo). If you're doing it for the money, you're honestly going to hate yourself. Judging by your previous posts, you may want to think long and hard about your decision.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??!! WHENEVER SOMEONE POST ANYTHING ABOUT MONEY IN MEDICINE YOU GUYS AUTOMATICALLY ASSUME THAT THE PERSON ASKING IS GOING INTO HEALTHCARE FOR THE MONEY, WHEN YOU FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS PART OF THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS. YOU CAN'T LIVE AND SUPPORT A FAMILY OFF LOVING YOUR CAREER AND A $5000 A YEAR SALARY. I HAVE ENOUGH COMMON SENSE TO KNOW YOU NEED TO LIKE YOUR JOB. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT I BASICALLY AM INTERESTED IN MOST SPECIALTIES OF ANY TYPE OF MEDICINE OR DENTISTRY. ALSO IT IS A COMPLETELY IGNORANT STATEMENT TO SAY "DON'T WORRY ABOUT EXPLORING RIGHT NOW." THAT IS SO STUPID. WHY WOULD YOU WAIT UNTIL YOUR IN YOUR LAST YEAR OF MED OR DENTAL SCHOOL TO WONDER WHAT SPECIALTY YOU WANT TO GO IN TO OR WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WITH YOUR CAREER.
 
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WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??!! WHENEVER SOMEONE POST ANYTHING ABOUT MONEY IN MEDICINE YOU GUYS AUTOMATICALLY ASSUME THAT THE PERSON ASKING IS GOING INTO HEALTHCARE FOR THE MONEY, WHEN YOU FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS PART OF THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS. YOU CAN'T LIVE AND SUPPORT A FAMILY OFF LOVING YOUR CAREER AND A $5000 A YEAR SALARY. I HAVE ENOUGH COMMON SENSE TO KNOW YOU NEED TO LIKE YOUR JOB. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT I BASICALLY AM INTERESTED IN MOST SPECIALTIES OF ANY TYPE OF MEDICINE OR DENTISTRY. ALSO IT IS A COMPLETELY IGNORANT STATEMENT TO SAY "DON'T WORRY ABOUT EXPLORING RIGHT NOW." THAT IS SO STUPID. WHY WOULD YOU WAIT UNTIL YOUR IN YOUR LAST YEAR OF MED OR DENTAL SCHOOL TO WONDER WHAT SPECIALTY YOU WANT TO GO IN TO OR WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WITH YOUR CAREER.

Wow you needa take a chill pill dude. If you're not getting the information you want in this forum then simply gtfo. Stop wasting your time putting up posts and reading stuff here. Go find a real life mentor comfortable discussing his Financials with you.

And on the real tho most on this forum are residents or students. So trying to come here to ask about salary is no different than say asking a bum about salaries.
 
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WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??!! WHENEVER SOMEONE POST ANYTHING ABOUT MONEY IN MEDICINE YOU GUYS AUTOMATICALLY ASSUME THAT THE PERSON ASKING IS GOING INTO HEALTHCARE FOR THE MONEY, WHEN YOU FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS PART OF THE DECISION MAKING PROCESS. YOU CAN'T LIVE AND SUPPORT A FAMILY OFF LOVING YOUR CAREER AND A $5000 A YEAR SALARY. I HAVE ENOUGH COMMON SENSE TO KNOW YOU NEED TO LIKE YOUR JOB. THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT I BASICALLY AM INTERESTED IN MOST SPECIALTIES OF ANY TYPE OF MEDICINE OR DENTISTRY. ALSO IT IS A COMPLETELY IGNORANT STATEMENT TO SAY "DON'T WORRY ABOUT EXPLORING RIGHT NOW." THAT IS SO STUPID. WHY WOULD YOU WAIT UNTIL YOUR IN YOUR LAST YEAR OF MED OR DENTAL SCHOOL TO WONDER WHAT SPECIALTY YOU WANT TO GO IN TO OR WHAT YOU WANT TO DO WITH YOUR CAREER.


There is plenty of info already available about dentist and dental specialist income.

The most accurate data I have seen is available from the ADA. They do member surveys and compile reports which may be purchased. They do this for ALL dentists, general dentists, and each specialty.

Go to the ADA website.


The reason I asked if you were an OS resident is because if you are not, the specialized info you asked for is largely irrelevant.

1. First, you have to get into dental school. No easy task.

2. Second, you have to FINISH dental school. An even harder task.

3. Third. If you wish to specialize in OMFS, you will have to graduate in at least the top 25% of your class to even have a CHANCE, and in the top 10% to have a good chance of getting into a residency. An EVEN HARDER TASK.


4. Who knows what the outlook will be for such a specific question you asked a decade or more into the future.



Are we clear?



Wow you needa take a chill pill dude. If you're not getting the information you want in this forum then simply gtfo. Stop wasting your time putting up posts and reading stuff here. Go find a real life mentor comfortable discussing his Financials with you.


THIS.

Well stated.
 
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I think it's best to show an early interest as long as your interests are in the right place. Most of the types of predents entering dschool arent the type of people who think the amount of commitment, hard work, extra schooling, and scrub lifestyle during residency is worth becoming an omfs. The vibe im getting from the few residents that ive met is that they've had an intense interest and have wanted to do omfs more than anything else. Some even risk going into dschool for the sole purpose of becoming an omfs. Unlike endo, proths, pedo, and ortho, Omfs scope is sufficiently wide to be able to determine whether or not you want to do this prior to even coming to dschool.

Most of us think your question isnt relevant to your situation because you havent even completed your first year of dschool to have received a ranking to indicate whether youre even capable of competing. It's going to require you to be in the 40% of the 12,000 applicants to get into dschool, then top 10% of the 100 or so students in your class, study for an exam called the cbse (step 1), the scope of which you've not been taught in dschool, and be the lucky 50% who manage to match at a program that accepts around 2 residents a year among a multitude of other qualified applicants. To give you an idea of who youre competing against in dschool, there are some people who had 3.8-3.9 gpa in college and very high dat scores who are now either just barely in or at the fringes of being top 10% of dschool.

Anyways, the salary is typical of most surgical fields.
 
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What exactly do you want to know -- a specific income? Do you realize how much variation there is in that number? OMFS, in general, make a healthy salary whether in private practice or academics. It is certainly more than enough to support a family. Some may make $150k while others make $2m. The same can be said for every type of dentist.
 
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OP - why not do what you want [OMS?] and then just go where the money is? Would you really not do OMS to live in a specific city?
 
If I start a practice in a city with 200,000+ people, how much money can I expect to take home those first few years. It frightens me really. What if barely any people come to me. Or what if later down the road a recession happens and I'm in a lot of debt and my income changes from $200,000 to $95,000 and I can't pay for everything. Or as soon as I start my practice can I expect a lot of customers to come to my practice? Can I expect pulling in $200,000+ that first year. Can I have some Advice, Comments, Consultation, etc.​


Wow, way to crucify the OP.

OP: If you are in a good, typical private practice, you can expect to make about 500K.

I believe that most OMFS associates are paid about 2-250K.

To get that 500K, you would need to buy a practice, which would cost about 700K-1mil.
 
You are all idiots
Well that was mature.

Even though your question was not mature, considering you haven't even made it into dental school, several of us took the time to give you thoughtful answers.
 
Wow, way to crucify the OP.

OP: If you are in a good, typical private practice, you can expect to make about 500K.

I believe that most OMFS associates are paid about 2-250K.

To get that 500K, you would need to buy a practice, which would cost about 700K-1mil.

Thank you. I just wanted some estimates or something.
 
Dear Posters and Fellow Members,

I apologize for my reckless and immature behavior. Sometimes I just get frustrated at some of the answers I get when it is actually me who isn't asking the right question. This is really the only place i can get answers. I live in a town so small there are no oral surgeons i can ask questions to. I understand my type of behavior will not be tolerated and I promise it will never happen again. If I could take back the post I wrote I would. Again I apologize and appreciate your patience.

Sincerely,

alpha2716
 
Dear Posters and Fellow Members,

I apologize for my reckless and immature behavior. Sometimes I just get frustrated at some of the answers I get when it is actually me who isn't asking the right question. This is really the only place i can get answers. I live in a town so small there are no oral surgeons i can ask questions to. I understand my type of behavior will not be tolerated and I promise it will never happen again. If I could take back the post I wrote I would. Again I apologize and appreciate your patience.

Sincerely,

alpha2716

You know, alpha2716, just when I think you couldn't possibly be any dumber, you go and do something like this…and totally redeem yourself!
 
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Number I have heard is around 180-250 for associates (some pay production bonus on top and others dick you over). Private practice is based on production, but the average is around 500-600k in texas (heard second hand, so no idea if this is correct). There is a CPA firm that has posted dental stats in the NE that says 700k, but I think they are full of **** and are just trying to convince dentists/specialist to work with their consulting and accounting service.
 
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If I were an OMFS associate getting paid $250,000 I would probably shoot myself. I fail to see how an OMFS associat would make roughly the same as a dental associate.

The conversation should start at a bare minimum of $400,000.
 
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If I were an OMFS associate getting paid $250,000 I would probably shoot myself. I fail to see how an OMFS associat would make roughly the same as a dental associate.

The conversation should start at a bare minimum of $400,000.

You are hilarious and delirious if you are expecting $400k. The numbers I have heard from offers is base 180-250k plus production, which I would expect to be around 300-350k total
 
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roughly the same as a dental associate.

I would not expect a dental associate to be making $250,000 (or within $50,000 of that, even).
 
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If I were an OMFS associate getting paid $250,000 I would probably shoot myself. I fail to see how an OMFS associat would make roughly the same as a dental associate.

The conversation should start at a bare minimum of $400,000.

Unrealistic.

Especially for a new grad OMFS, where they would still not have their speed.

Also, part of being an associate vs owner, is that you are being hired to make money either for the owner DDS, or the corporate owners. There is nothing in it for practice owners to pay outrageously high salaries for associates, except in limited circumstances, like a practice with much more work than can be done by the owner, possibly in a rural or less desireable area to live where it is hard to attract associates, or in an area where there is a shortage of DDS's (not many of these anymore).



You are hilarious and delirious if you are expecting $400k. The numbers I have heard from offers is base 180-250k plus production, which I would expect to be around 300-350k total


This.



I would not expect a dental associate to be making $250,000 (or within $50,000 of that, even).


This also.


I made a bit more than that as an associate over a decade ago (when the economy was much better than it has been for the last 5 -6 years) , but I was already an experienced dentist after 4 years in the Navy including a GPR, and most importantly, I was practicing in Nevada before they allowed lic by credentials and the number of dentists doubled in roughly 5 years. It was also NOT easy, as I had to produce over 1 million (no hygiene, just me) on mostly insurance fee schedule work (adjusted production, ie REAL production, or what is expected to be collections) running 4 chairs and working 45+ hours per week. The norm for a new grad with no experience in a saturated area is roughly HALF that.
 
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If I start a practice in a city with 200,000+ people, how much money can I expect to take home those first few years. It frightens me really. What if barely any people come to me. Or what if later down the road a recession happens and I'm in a lot of debt and my income changes from $200,000 to $95,000 and I can't pay for everything. Or as soon as I start my practice can I expect a lot of customers to come to my practice? Can I expect pulling in $200,000+ that first year. Can I have some Advice, Comments, Consultation, etc.​
Having been out for close to 5 years, I can offer up some tidbits from the collective experience of myself and friends in the field
Academics - First year expect a salary around 150,000 with benefits including resident coverage of your hospital cases (they do pre and postop stuff, you decide how much you want to cut). Most facilities you don't have sovereign immunity like your neuro colleagues, so be forewarned about increasing rates of liability claims and hospital work such as trauma/orthognathics
private practice in a big city like NYC or Boston- 1st year salary 175,000-225,000 plus benefits like health insurance coverage for the family (can run you upwards of 1000 a month, not cheap), liability insurance coverage (if you're in NYC, expect a first yr premium of around 14 or 15,000), CE reimbursement, etc. Most practices you're doing mostly dentoalveolar, the senior partners will do most of the big implant and jaw cases. you still gotta pay your dues as a first year associate, yes this sucks
corporate - NO ONE gets production WITHOUT a catch. if you need clarification, PM me. expect 40-45% of collections. Not bad if you are doing a bunch of tooth and titanium cases 4-5 days a week and producing 5000/day. allow 90 days for the insurance to kick in and you can except some healthy numbers that get the loans paid for and allows you to buy the wife a nice house
a lot of my colleagues do a little of both... building up their practice in their own office 2-3 days/week while supplementing with corporate or doing some hospital call at 1-5 facilities and getting trauma pay (sometimes 1000/day if you take call at a busy hospital)
or you can do fellowship. I still think about this. financial pressures aside, keeping some subspecialization under your belt is a good thing. in the long run it sets you apart as a clinician.
:)
 
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Having been out for close to 5 years, I can offer up some tidbits from the collective experience of myself and friends in the field
Academics - First year expect a salary around 150,000 with benefits including resident coverage of your hospital cases (they do pre and postop stuff, you decide how much you want to cut). Most facilities you don't have sovereign immunity like your neuro colleagues, so be forewarned about increasing rates of liability claims and hospital work such as trauma/orthognathics
private practice in a big city like NYC or Boston- 1st year salary 175,000-225,000 plus benefits like health insurance coverage for the family (can run you upwards of 1000 a month, not cheap), liability insurance coverage (if you're in NYC, expect a first yr premium of around 14 or 15,000), CE reimbursement, etc. Most practices you're doing mostly dentoalveolar, the senior partners will do most of the big implant and jaw cases. you still gotta pay your dues as a first year associate, yes this sucks
corporate - NO ONE gets production WITHOUT a catch. if you need clarification, PM me. expect 40-45% of collections. Not bad if you are doing a bunch of tooth and titanium cases 4-5 days a week and producing 5000/day. allow 90 days for the insurance to kick in and you can except some healthy numbers that get the loans paid for and allows you to buy the wife a nice house
a lot of my colleagues do a little of both... building up their practice in their own office 2-3 days/week while supplementing with corporate or doing some hospital call at 1-5 facilities and getting trauma pay (sometimes 1000/day if you take call at a busy hospital)
or you can do fellowship. I still think about this. financial pressures aside, keeping some subspecialization under your belt is a good thing. in the long run it sets you apart as a clinician.
:)

I have always thought that OMS should hire a surgically oriented DDS to work for them like a mid-level provider. However, seeing this wage breakdown (taking your word for it), I can see why an associate oral surgeon can be hired. Associate wages are crap!

I used to think that if an OS is not making 800k+ they are really doing things wrong. Overhead should be so low for surgery. If the average take home pre-tax is really around 500, that is not great-especially with all of the increasing cherry-picking by everyone else. OS will continue to be the end of the line where all of the complications, very sick patients, etc get sent. There will be plenty of money to be made but the slam dunks will continually be fewer and further between.
 
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I have always thought that OMS should hire a surgically oriented DDS to work for them like a mid-level provider. However, seeing this wage breakdown (taking your word for it), I can see why an associate oral surgeon can be hired. Associate wages are crap!

I used to think that if an OS is not making 800k+ they are really doing things wrong. Overhead should be so low for surgery. If the average take home pre-tax is really around 500, that is not great-especially with all of the increasing cherry-picking by everyone else. OS will continue to be the end of the line where all of the complications, very sick patients, etc get sent. There will be plenty of money to be made but the slam dunks will continually be fewer and further between.

It's obvious you have a chip on your shoulder about OMFS... you feel the need to comment on OMFS every time it comes up and yet you have no experience or first hand knowledge
 
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I have always thought that OMS should hire a surgically oriented DDS to work for them like a mid-level provider. However, seeing this wage breakdown (taking your word for it), I can see why an associate oral surgeon can be hired. Associate wages are crap!

I used to think that if an OS is not making 800k+ they are really doing things wrong. Overhead should be so low for surgery. If the average take home pre-tax is really around 500, that is not great-especially with all of the increasing cherry-picking by everyone else. OS will continue to be the end of the line where all of the complications, very sick patients, etc get sent. There will be plenty of money to be made but the slam dunks will continually be fewer and further between.

"OS will continue to be the end of the line where all the complications get sent..."

Do you think it's appropriate to do the surgery and not handle the complication? I believe this comes full circle. Maybe your name should be "sed8nyanknrunawayfromu"
 
"OS will continue to be the end of the line where all the complications get sent..."

Do you think it's appropriate to do the surgery and not handle the complication? I believe this comes full circle. Maybe your name should be "sed8nyanknrunawayfromu"



Dale that was funny...
 
It's just the way it is. Things will never be the same. It's just the way it is. No chip here; I love OMS, just can't believe some of what I read on here.

Personally, I handle all of my complications and those of my referring doctors but handling of complications is a minor issue compared to wages.
The associate wages, according to this thread, is a major issue. It is frighteningly low. If you get a job offer to make less than 300k, I would guys you are better off doing a scratch start up.
 
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Ok good. I was worried you didn't have hospital privileges for post-operative abscesses. But since you handle all your and "your referrals" complications, you must be able to admit to a hospital and go to or.

Right.........?
 
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Let's get back to the topic of the thread. Are you considering accepting a position with income ranges stated here? Doesn't it seem ridiculously low?

Maybe my perception has been way off.
 
Let's get back to the topic of the thread. Are you considering accepting a position with income ranges stated here? Doesn't it seem ridiculously low?

Maybe my perception has been way off.

Why don't you want to talk about your hospital privileges for your complications if you handle all your complications and others? I'm proud of you for being able to handle all the complications that can come from extractions.

Back to the post. Speaking from recent experiences, associate salaries are anywhere from 2-300k. Bonuses can add anywhere from 50-300k. You have to see past the first year though. Most places offer partnership after the first year, two years max. The practices I viewed, partners were making anywhere from 500k to up to 2 mil a year and everywhere in between. Your buy-in to these practices will also weigh in your decision. Buy-in can range from 250k up to millions as well, dependent on the practice.

In my experiences, opening up your own practice can be very lucrative, just tougher in the first 2 years or so.

At the end of the day, money will be there in dentistry, regardless of your specialty.
 
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