Organic Chem Texbook Woes

[Kahr]

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Wasn't sure if this should go in the DAT forum or here, apologies if it should be there instead.

Alright, here's my issue: I'm taking organic 1 this summer, and the assigned textbook seems to get really bad reviews all around. This is the one: Organic Chemistry, Solomons 9/e; which also requires you get a fairly expensive student manual to get answers for ANY of the problems in the text as it supposedly doesn't even provide odd or even answers as most texts seem to.

So I decided I should probably get a second source, and although my fiancee is a pharmacist and knows her chemistry well (for decent tutoring), I'd like to have something on paper for my own personal reference. I've heard a lot of good talk about a textbook by "Wade", and references to Organic Chemistry for Dummies and Organic Chemistry as a 2nd Language.

If anyone has any input, advice, etc, please share it! (As a side note, money isn't really an issue, especially considering I'll probably use whatever I get now for the DAT as well).

 

[doc toothache]

Alright, here's my issue: I'm taking organic 1 this summer, and the assigned textbook seems to get really bad reviews all around. This is the one: Organic Chemistry, Solomons 9/e; which also requires you get a fairly expensive student manual to get answers for ANY of the problems in the text as it supposedly doesn't even provide odd or even answers as most texts seem to.
So I decided I should probably get a second source, and although my fiancee is a pharmacist and knows her chemistry well (for decent tutoring), I'd like to have something on paper for my own personal reference. I've heard a lot of good talk about a textbook by "Wade", and references to Organic Chemistry for Dummies and Organic Chemistry as a 2nd Language.

If anyone has any input, advice, etc, please share it! (As a side note, money isn't really an issue, especially considering I'll probably use whatever I get now for the DAT as well).

Money is not an issue yet you complain about having to get a "fairly expensive student manual". Then why not buy them all and then some?

 

[makers]

I liked Solomons. I had a different prof for 2nd quarter that used a book other than Solomons and I ended up using Solomons for the study problems and did very well. Get the solutions manual, though. Always get the solutions manual if you plan on doing a lot of the practice problems in a textbook- they'll usually show where you went wrong, not just what the right answer is. Don't write in them and sell them on Amazon when you're done. You'll get back most of the money spent (if money is an issue, which it is for most of us.)

 

[Kahr]

Money is not an issue yet you complain about having to get a "fairly expensive student manual". Then why not buy them all and then some?

I thought it was clear that my point about "money not being an issue" was directly related to affording material that was particularly recommended. Also, the main complaint I have is that the text doesn't provide ANY answers to the problems in it, and thus essentially forces you to purchase the student manual.

In any case, I don't see how your comment is supposed to be helpful.

 

[doc toothache]

I thought it was clear that my point about "money not being an issue" was directly related to affording material that was particularly recommended. Also, the main complaint I have is that the text doesn't provide ANY answers to the problems in it, and thus essentially forces you to purchase the student manual.

In any case, I don't see how your comment is supposed to be helpful.

Your "main complaint" should be directed to the author(s)/publisher. The "helpful" comment was in the second sentence.

 

[slight365]

It probably doesn't help, but if money is no object, I suggest Brown and Foote with the solutions manual for at the least, a side by side book if you don't like Solomon. The manual is nearly as thick as the book and I'm pretty certain if you go through the book and do the problems to the last one, you can get an A in any orgo class. The problem is the time to work on it all...

At the least, it's a large number of focused problems per chapter to add with the solutions manual.

 

[JustBePM]

Most organic textbooks will be accompanied by a solutions manual. That's just the way it is. Blame it on the large amount of content and method of solving problems in organic chemistry. Most textbooks (i.e. Wade, Carey, Solomon, McMurry) will contain almost similar themes. What differs is the order and practice problems. IMO, since I've read ALL textbooks by those four authors I mentioned above, the level of difficulty from least to most is Solomon, McMurry, Wade, and Carey. I had Carey while an undergraduate and I tend to favor it the most. It has the best practice problems and it even introduces some graduate level organic chemistry. All-in-all, you'll definitely learn organic chemistry from any one of those books. My advice, read all four and make your own decision...

PS. If you really know it, you won't NEED the solutions manual.

 

[slight365]

PS. If you really know it, you won't NEED the solutions manual.

Incorrect. That's the cocky "never wrong" doctor speaking. The way to learn it and really know it is to not be too proud to have the solutions manual. It's how you learn what you're doing right and wrong on your own time and then allows you to go back to the sections you're weak in. It's especially crucial for those first four chapters.

And not all solutions manuals are created alike. Morrison and Boyd's has traditionally been a bit sparse on tips and info, along with the text just being a dry read.

 

[Kahr]

Thank you for all the helpful replies. I'm not entirely against getting a solutions manual, especially in this case, as JustBePM suggests, it seems necessary (I've just never had to do it before). I just wanted suggestions about which text or supplement would be best/most useful.

Guess I'll get what I can and see how it goes; though I did recently notice a decent thread on a similar topic in the medical forums which might be helpful for me.

 

[Chesnok]

We used Orgo by Francis Carey, not bad at all....didn't have time to use other books thou 😉

 

[DrReo]

http://www.mnstate.edu/jasperse/Chem350/Answers 350/Answers 350.html

 

[Kahr]

We used Orgo by Francis Carey, not bad at all....didn't have time to use other books thou 😉

Yeah, that's something I'd thought about too, which I can especially see being relevant during a summer course.

DrReo: That's awesome. ;]

 

[JustBePM]

Incorrect. That's the cocky "never wrong" doctor speaking. The way to learn it and really know it is to not be too proud to have the solutions manual. It's how you learn what you're doing right and wrong on your own time and then allows you to go back to the sections you're weak in. It's especially crucial for those first four chapters.

And not all solutions manuals are created alike. Morrison and Boyd's has traditionally been a bit sparse on tips and info, along with the text just being a dry read.

I am not downgrading solutions manuals. I find them very useful. I am just saying that it is a much better method of learning when one's not so dependent on solutions manuals. Sorry if I sounded like the cocky "never wrong" doctor. There is a difference between those who use solutions manuals and those who write them. If my doctor was performing surgery on me with a solutions manual at his/her side...I would probably pee my pants. There aren't "solutions manuals" in the real world buddy. Besides, who writes these "solutions manuals"? Answer: People. What are you and I? Answer: People.

PS. I'd like to know what solutions manual(s) Albert Enstein used...if he used any at all.

 

[mamelons]

Wasn't sure if this should go in the DAT forum or here, apologies if it should be there instead.

Alright, here's my issue: I'm taking organic 1 this summer, and the assigned textbook seems to get really bad reviews all around. This is the one: Organic Chemistry, Solomons 9/e; which also requires you get a fairly expensive student manual to get answers for ANY of the problems in the text as it supposedly doesn't even provide odd or even answers as most texts seem to.

So I decided I should probably get a second source, and although my fiancee is a pharmacist and knows her chemistry well (for decent tutoring), I'd like to have something on paper for my own personal reference. I've heard a lot of good talk about a textbook by "Wade", and references to Organic Chemistry for Dummies and Organic Chemistry as a 2nd Language.

If anyone has any input, advice, etc, please share it! (As a side note, money isn't really an issue, especially considering I'll probably use whatever I get now for the DAT as well).

We used McMurray or McMurry (not sure how it was spelled) when I was in undergrad... I thought it was good.

 

[slight365]

I am not downgrading solutions manuals. I find them very useful. I am just saying that it is a much better method of learning when one's not so dependent on solutions manuals. Sorry if I sounded like the cocky "never wrong" doctor. There is a difference between those who use solutions manuals and those who write them. If my doctor was performing surgery on me with a solutions manual at his/her side...I would probably pee my pants. There aren't "solutions manuals" in the real world buddy. Besides, who writes these "solutions manuals"? Answer: People. What are you and I? Answer: People.

PS. I'd like to know what solutions manual(s) Albert Enstein used...if he used any at all.

You've really got to be kidding. THe excuse made you sound even worse.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing the problems, then going back to check over your work. There is no way to get a professor to go over some 100 or more problems per chapter, especially ones with such complications. WHen you get it wrong, the solutions manual points it out.

I'm sorry to go after this, but I've seriously heard people in pre-med downplay and use the exact same excuse, mostly to sabotage others in the class to get their rank towards the top of the curve.

It's really silly.