Orientation

[PAgirl]

Just wondering what orientation is like for incoming categorical surgery interns. I know there will be the standard computer training, possibly ACLS, etc., but is it mostly this type of thing or are there social events and get-to-know you type stuff, too? Some of my friends going into peds have already heard from their programs that their orientation will include things like ropes courses and softball games, but I really have no idea what to expect. Also, does anyone know if we get paid for our time spent in orientation? Thanks guys.

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[kirurg]

This is probably program-dependent. Our orientation involved taking care of (tons of) paperwork, BLS, ACLS, ATLS, computer training, learning about each of the services... The only social events we had included alcohol and took place after 6pm (no ropes courses, thank God!). We were paid for orientation.

Just wondering what orientation is like for incoming categorical surgery interns. I know there will be the standard computer training, possibly ACLS, etc., but is it mostly this type of thing or are there social events and get-to-know you type stuff, too? Some of my friends going into peds have already heard from their programs that their orientation will include things like ropes courses and softball games, but I really have no idea what to expect. Also, does anyone know if we get paid for our time spent in orientation? Thanks guys.

 

[ACSurgeon]

This is probably program-dependent. Our orientation involved taking care of (tons of) paperwork, BLS, ACLS, ATLS, computer training, learning about each of the services... The only social events we had included alcohol and took place after 6pm (no ropes courses, thank God!). We were paid for orientation.

My future program has given us a vague outline of activities that includes ATLS, didactics, and departmental orientation. During my interview, residents said we'd be paid for 10 days of orientation before July 1st. Thank God for rich hospitals (as opposed to some of the more broke ones I interviewed at!)

 

[LifetimeDoc]

My program has only sent me my contract and salary/benefits paperwork. I haven't heard anything else about who my fellow interns will be, or when we start exactly (other than the general July 1 start date).

 

[ACSurgeon]

My program has only sent me my contract and salary/benefits paperwork. I haven't heard anything else about who my fellow interns will be, or when we start exactly (other than the general July 1 start date).

Are you expected to do ATLS stuff on your own before starting? Or is July 1st the start of orientation?

 

[LifetimeDoc]

Are you expected to do ATLS stuff on your own before starting? Or is July 1st the start of orientation?

Well, my medical school requires that we take and pass BLS and ACLS before we are allowed to graduate, so I've already done that. I don't know about ATLS. I haven't heard anything more from my program other than salary/benefits, and a vague July 1 start time. We could be starting earlier, but I don't know as of right now (wish I did, and I already asked via email yesterday, but haven't heard back).

 

[DrNick Riviera]

All i have heard from my program is that we do ATLS during orientation, ACLS is on our own. And that orientation would start either June 18 or 20. I haven's even gotten a contract yet...

 

[Taty]

I got contract and benefits no other paperwork yet.

 

[dpmd]

This is going to be very program dependent. Ours involved a mass orientation for all incoming residents. The only social activity was the residents came by one of the days for lunch so we could meet them. We had a couple of days where all the paperwork and mandatory briefings were done, then got to work. They had ACLS prior to this, but I was still radioactive (from my radioactive iodine treatment) so I had to go to a class later on. I have forgotten if we got paid, but it was only a few days. I think a ropes course would have been fun.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Yep program dependent.

For my residency, we started somewhere around 10 days prior to July 1, were required to do ACLS and ATLS during that orientation, had a "3 days of surgery" thingy which was program dependent, but it was about 2 days worth of activities spread out over 10 days. We were not paid.

For fellowship, I had to do HIPAA training (the interns we aghast that I was made to do it after all those residency years) and it was a day or two before July 1. I was paid for the day.

 

[dpmd]

Do you think you were able to absorb all that info at once? I have been pushing for us to have the interns do ATLS sooner (I think it was november before we did it last year) so they know better what to do when they are on trauma or on call (or next year I guess it will be night float). There is concern that it will be too much for them to handle. Just curious how the people that did everything during orientation felt about it.

 

[Smurfette]

My program started orientation about 8 days prior to July 1. We did NOT get paid.

Most orientation was generic to all incoming residents, including ACLS. Stuff like pagers, benefits, HIPAA, other compliance stuff. REALLY BORING.

We had a day of program specific stuff....some 'what to do on call' lecture and a skills lab with suturing, central lines and stuff. We went on a little field trip to a local museum exhibit (which was fun) and had a lunch with the chairman one day, and a dinner with some of the faculty (spouses invited too).

ATLS was as a PGY2 (program wouldn't pay for all the prelims to get ATLS, so to get around this, it was not until PGY2).

In the real world, ALL of my orientation days were paid. And they just told me to sign the HIPAA certificate

 

[Winged Scapula]

ATLS was as a PGY2 (program wouldn't pay for all the prelims to get ATLS, so to get around this, it was not until PGY2).

So did you not do trauma as a PGY-1? I thought you couldn't without ATLS or is that a Pennsylvania thing to require it.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

So did you not do trauma as a PGY-1? I thought you couldn't without ATLS or is that a Pennsylvania thing to require it.

We also do ATLS as pgy2's. We do trauma as interns but we do not do the initial management; we just take care of them once they hit the ICU/floor. No ATLS needed.

 

[JelloBrain]

For my residency, we started somewhere around 10 days prior to July 1, were required to do ACLS and ATLS during that orientation, had a "3 days of surgery" thingy which was program dependent, but it was about 2 days worth of activities spread out over 10 days.

ACLS and ATLS both last about 2.5 days each, and are pretty intense, at least they were when I got certified in the UK. So I am curious about the bolded part above-how could it be that ACLS/ATLS and other orientation activities were all only 2 days worth? Do new interns get taught some abbreviated form of these courses, or am I missing something?

 

[ESU_MD]

The most important thing to do during orientation is to organize a trip during the lunch hour to a bar. Anyone too uptight to have a few drinks will likely be too uptight too work with and you will be able to watch out for these losers from day one.

 

[Smurfette]

So did you not do trauma as a PGY-1? I thought you couldn't without ATLS or is that a Pennsylvania thing to require it.

Not all interns at my program did trauma. Those who did would see and evaluate new traumas, but were always supervised by either a PGY4 ER resident (if surgery chief in OR) or a surgery chief. All PGY2s did trauma, and usually got certified in November of PGY 2 year (so those doing the trauma rotation before November also weren't certified).

I'm wondering if it's institution dependent? We were required to be ATLS certified when we were senior residents supervising others (one year a PGY2 failed to get ATLS certified because they forgot to show up or were post call, and it became a big issue the following year when they were seeing trauma consults as a PGY3 and the trauma attendings realized they weren't ATLS certified, and couldn't allow them to see traumas until they finished the course.)

 

[Winged Scapula]

ACLS and ATLS both last about 2.5 days each, and are pretty intense, at least they were when I got certified in the UK. So I am curious about the bolded part above-how could it be that ACLS/ATLS and other orientation activities were all only 2 days worth? Do new interns get taught some abbreviated form of these courses, or am I missing something?

Oh I was exaggerating...but I don't recall ACLS and ATLS lasting 2.5 days *each*.

Ok....it was like 4 days worth of activities spread out over 10-14 days. At any rate, some days were half days and I would have preferred to spend a full day and come in later.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I'm wondering if it's institution dependent? We were required to be ATLS certified when we were senior residents supervising others (one year a PGY2 failed to get ATLS certified because they forgot to show up or were post call, and it became a big issue the following year when they were seeing trauma consults as a PGY3 and the trauma attendings realized they weren't ATLS certified, and couldn't allow them to see traumas until they finished the course.)

It may be. We were required as PGY1s to take it before being on trauma which is why they had it during orientation.

I remember I missed a HS reunion I wanted to go to because I had to recert and we couldn't take trauma call (whether PGY-1 or 5, etc.) without and the only date offered of course was the weekend of my reunion. I also recall a situation like the one you had where someone missed it and we had to rearrange the schedule until they did.

 

[JelloBrain]

Oh I was exaggerating...but I don't recall ACLS and ATLS lasting 2.5 days *each*.

Ok....it was like 4 days worth of activities spread out over 10-14 days. At any rate, some days were half days and I would have preferred to spend a full day and come in later.

This is what I did-http://www.rcseng.ac.uk/education/courses/atls.html

My ATLS was definitely 3 days- I can't imagine how it could be compressed as it was very intense. ACLS (ALS in UK) was 2 days, with a half-day before starting to get BLS certified for those of us who didn't have BLS.

Anyways, I was merely surprised that everything is done during orientation, that's all. Maybe I need not think about trying to get my ACLS/ATLS (re)certified for USA then, .

 

[dpmd]

This is what I did-http://www.rcseng.ac.uk/education/courses/atls.html

My ATLS was definitely 3 days- I can't imagine how it could be compressed as it was very intense. ACLS (ALS in UK) was 2 days, with a half-day before starting to get BLS certified for those of us who didn't have BLS.

Anyways, I was merely surprised that everything is done during orientation, that's all. Maybe I need not think about trying to get my ACLS/ATLS (re)certified for USA then, .

ATLS is typically taught as 2 long days (in the US at least), although other configurations are allowed as long as all the required components are present. The recert is only 1/2 a day or one day (depending on where you take it). May be worth it to recert on your own so you don't have to sit through the whole thing (unless you don't want to pay for it).

 

[JelloBrain]

ATLS is typically taught as 2 long days (in the US at least), although other configurations are allowed as long as all the required components are present. The recert is only 1/2 a day or one day (depending on where you take it). May be worth it to recert on your own so you don't have to sit through the whole thing (unless you don't want to pay for it).

Thanks, I shall look into getting my own recert, if it's not too expensive.