ORTHO CU vs JU

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barney12

Anyone know any major differences between Colorado and Jacksonville's ortho programs?

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dumb and dumber.



do a search on past threads. after you read the discussions - i hope neither appeals to you.
 
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Wow. . .that was a completely unhelpful reply. Could I please have serious remarks from professional people? Thank you.
 
Antidentite,

Are you saying dumb and dumber because of OEC or are you saying that the residents at JU and Colorado will not be as good as you clinically when they are done.
 
Wow. . .that was a completely unhelpful reply. Could I please have serious remarks from professional people? Thank you.


Please. The most unprofessional thing to ever happen to the profession involves the two schools you are asking about. But you are right - let me take back my dumb and dumber post and respond in a more professional manner.


Dear Barney 12 -

I see you are interested in learning a little bit about both the Jacksonville and Colorado orthodontic programs. I am assuming it is no coincidence that the two programs you are asking about are both OEC programs.

There have been many threads posted on this forum over the past 3 years regarding these programs. Depending on if this thread gains momentum or not (I hope not) you will see the same rehashed statements made in the past 40+ threads that dealt with the OEC issue.

I think if you are truly interested in obtaining information about these programs you do a search of past threads on this forum and then contact these schools directly to put you in contact with the residents. That is the source you need. If you have interest in them - they will have interest in you!

What you will find here by starting this tired thread is going to be a pissing match and not what you are looking for. One side realizes OEC and its supporters (administrators, faculty and students) are detrimental to the field and the other side is made up of those who are either too naive, desperate, or self serving to put ideals above their own self interest.

Good luck finding out which side you fall on and the information you are looking for.

Warmest Regards,
Antidentite
 
Antidentite,

Are you saying dumb and dumber because of OEC or are you saying that the residents at JU and Colorado will not be as good as you clinically when they are done.


OEC. I have no oppinion to post about their residents training, only their decision to join which has been discussed to death.

I did not mean to hijack this thread which it appears I did and my desire not to see another OEC pissing match in another thread backfired because I can sense it coming. I have PM the original poster and suggested where I think he can get the information he is looking for. I am going to refrain from this thread at the request of the original poster. If there are any OEC residents that can compare and contrast these two programs please respond here or PM the original poster.

Those looking for OEC pissing matches can search for all the oldies but goodies.
 
Nice work, antidentite. Way to be a professional! That subject has usually led to a wildly polarizing discussion. I doubt much has changed since our last round.
 
are CU and JU still OEC?
i thought it folded.
 
are CU and JU still OEC?
i thought it folded.

I believe CU and UNLV severed all ties. One of the smartest, hardest-working guys I know is going to CU this fall. I'm sure they'll have good people go there and the stink of OEC will vanish quickly for applicants.

I'm not so sure about JU. Isn't there still some connection?
 
I'm not so sure about JU. Isn't there still some connection?

There was actually a front page article in the most recent ADA News about the OEC situation and the lawsuits the former students were involved in. The article said Jacksonville's relationship with the OEC was "inactive." So, there's still some sort of tie.
 
There was actually a front page article in the most recent ADA News about the OEC situation and the lawsuits the former students were involved in. The article said Jacksonville's relationship with the OEC was "inactive." So, there's still some sort of tie.

That front page guy is starting to irritate me. Why did they put his huge picture on the cover? I would think they'd put pictures of people who do good things for dentistry, not stir up trouble. His story is not that special and he doesn't deserve the sympathy he is seeking. Giving him all this attention is again, bad for ortho.

Can I still write a letter to the editor? How often does the ADA news come out?
 
Being from UNLV myself, I would say to stay far away from any of the three "former" OEC prgrams. Having recently gone through the interview process at UNLV and many other MATCH programs, there is a huge difference in the educations. Those "former" OEC programs bank on the fact that they can offer pre-MATCH spots and catch students into accepting a spot, simply to avoid the insecuriities associated with entering the MATCH. When my interviewees at UNLV asked me directly if I would withdraw from the MATCH to accept a spot there, I told them that I would rather enter the MATCH. That was followed up by 10 mins. of them telling me how I would not be able to MATCH, that I was not a good candidate and that I would regret this decision. Luckily, I matched at a long-standing, traditional program that I will be proud to attend, so the situation worked out for me, but my experience in that interview gave me some insight into how these programs recruit their students; they prey on their fears.

Anyway, back to the OP's question. I can not say much about JU or CU, but I know what I see at UNLV. They lack the patients, facilities and faculty to provide 16 residents with the experiences that are being received at other programs. Many of the residents are very unhappy and told me themselves to make every attempt to go to another program. I feel that the experience will be similar at the other two programs (JU & CU) simply because of the debacle that OEC is. I have nothing against the residents at these programs, I only feel like they sold themselves short for a certificate and that their learning curve may be steeper post-residency, because of the experiences (or lack of)that they will have.

Combine this with the ridiculous tution cost at these sub-par programs (a judgement of the programs, NOT the residents) and you have enumerous reasons to avoid these three (JU, CU and UNLV) programs.

So, to the original OP, if you any chance AT ALL of attending another program besides any of the three "former" OEC programs, do it.

Good luck to the OP!
 
Thanks for the inside info, indeep! Very interesting.

My friend, by the way, who is going to CU only applied there. He's from Colorado and due to family reasons that's the only place he looked at.

I believe in terms of competitiveness he could have gone many other places. Yet, w/ no live presence of OEC and the family draw he ends up there. I look forward to chatting w/ him about CU--its pros and cons--as time goes on.

So, indeep, how long do you see the legacy of OEC lasting? I said earlier that the stink of OEC should diminish at UNLV and JU. That was only my opinion w/ little basis in fact (just my best guess). Do you think it will hover for a long time above the said programs?
 
Thanks for the inside info, indeep! Very interesting.

My friend, by the way, who is going to CU only applied there. He's from Colorado and due to family reasons that's the only place he looked at.

I believe in terms of competitiveness he could have gone many other places. Yet, w/ no live presence of OEC and the family draw he ends up there. I look forward to chatting w/ him about CU--its pros and cons--as time goes on.

So, indeep, how long do you see the legacy of OEC lasting? I said earlier that the stink of OEC should diminish at UNLV and JU. That was only my opinion w/ little basis in fact (just my best guess). Do you think it will hover for a long time above the said programs?

I understand your friend's situation and I know a few of the UNLV residents are the same way. They were very competitive applicants that for one reason or another ended up here, although they probably could have gone other places.

I don't think that the OEC stink will stick around for long. Talking with some private orthodontists in the community, they already are starting to have a different outlook on the program and I think shortly, other programs and residents will begin to feel the same way.

I feel that the real problem is not whether these programs will carry the stigma of being "former" OEC programs, but rather how they will survive the aftermath of the disaster that OEC was. They are now looking at carrying on already understaffed, overfilled residencies with little to no funding. I know at UNLV, many plans were made based on them getting the promised funding. Now that the funding is gone, they have to make up for the deficit somehow, and so they rely on residents' tution. These programs really need to downsize to bring the training experience up to par and to save thier reputation, but they can't because they rely on the tuition coming from all 16 residents. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the next few years and I hope that OEC never gets its claws into another program.

All of this just my opinion based on what I see at UNLV, but I would be surprised to find it any different at CU and JU.
 
I understand your friend's situation and I know a few of the UNLV residents are the same way. They were very competitive applicants that for one reason or another ended up here, although they probably could have gone other places.

I don't think that the OEC stink will stick around for long. Talking with some private orthodontists in the community, they already are starting to have a different outlook on the program and I think shortly, other programs and residents will begin to feel the same way.

I feel that the real problem is not whether these programs will carry the stigma of being "former" OEC programs, but rather how they will survive the aftermath of the disaster that OEC was. They are now looking at carrying on already understaffed, overfilled residencies with little to no funding. I know at UNLV, many plans were made based on them getting the promised funding. Now that the funding is gone, they have to make up for the deficit somehow, and so they rely on residents' tution. These programs really need to downsize to bring the training experience up to par and to save thier reputation, but they can't because they rely on the tuition coming from all 16 residents. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out in the next few years and I hope that Dr. Lazarra never gets his claws into another program.

All of this just my opinion based on what I see at UNLV, but I would be surprised to find it any different at CU and JU.

It is in fact different at other schools. JU and CU couldn't be more different. JU's program is heavy clinically based, while CU is far more didactic. All three programs are in different phases of building construction, and program maturity. It's my guess that UNLV and CU will scale back in residents. JU will probably stay at the same number. Each residency program will ultimately be judged on the type of orthodontists that graduate from it's program.
 
From what I hear, the OEC stigma is dependent on geography. I heard that a CU grad who stuck around the Denver area is not very popular even among the general dentists because of the OEC thing...but another resident who went to the Pacific NW area has not run into a general dentist who has even heard of OEC.

Stigma or no stigma, you need to face the facts when applying for ortho. If you only get interviews at UNLV, JU, and CU, then go for it. Don't let idiotic banter on SDN make you fear that you will not be a good orthodontist, or that you won't be popular at the dental meetings...If professional status is the only reason you want to do ortho, then you probably shouldn't do it anyway!
 
That front page guy is starting to irritate me. Why did they put his huge picture on the cover? I would think they'd put pictures of people who do good things for dentistry, not stir up trouble. His story is not that special and he doesn't deserve the sympathy he is seeking. Giving him all this attention is again, bad for ortho.

Can I still write a letter to the editor? How often does the ADA news come out?

His story doesn't deserve ANY sympathy. OEC folding was probably the single BEST event that will ever occur in his ENTIRE career. He went from contractually obligated to making 150,000 for 7 years working for someone else, to having the ability to own the practice and make ????/year (my guess would be alot more that 150,000).

His real problem seems to be that he took on a $500,000 mortgage without a dime to his name, while having a family to support too. If he were smart, he would be able to come out the winner in this situation, instead of the pathetic loser.
 
His story doesn't deserve ANY sympathy. OEC folding was probably the single BEST event that will ever occur in his ENTIRE career. He went from contractually obligated to making 150,000 for 7 years working for someone else, to having the ability to own the practice and make ????/year (my guess would be alot more that 150,000).

His real problem seems to be that he took on a $500,000 mortgage without a dime to his name, while having a family to support too. If he were smart, he would be able to come out the winner in this situation, instead of the pathetic loser.


I agree, that dude is the biggest tool I have ever seen.

First he signs up to be an indentured servant. Then when the pyramid scheme dissolved, he got mad at OEC for not continuing his indentured servitude! What a _____ (fill in your favorite derogatory term). Maybe he should just move to the Sudan.
 
"Maybe he should just move to the Sudan."

This "tool" to whom you refer so courageously behind the anonymity of your username, Jaybe, served his country for 9 years as an officer in the US Navy. In his last year on active duty, he volunteered to deploy to Iraq and was assigned to a US Marine Corps infantry unit to serve outside the wire not as a pog dental officer but as a frontline interpreter. Before suggesting that a man and patriot of this caliber (.556/9mm) move to the Sudan, I would recommend that you check between your own legs to see what you, if anything, have.
 
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