Pro-Dentite

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What are the odds that someone with these stats gets into an Ortho program?

It seems like everyone you talk to says, "You need to be top 5 with a 98 on Part I." I'm just curious if this is true or not.
 

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Pro-Dentite said:
What are the odds that someone with these stats gets into an Ortho program?

It seems like everyone you talk to says, "You need to be top 5 with a 98 on Part I." I'm just curious if this is true or not.

If you're bright enough to get a 96 on boards, you're smart enough to answer this question.
 

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Dr. Pedo said:
If you're bright enough to get a 96 on boards, you're smart enough to answer this question.
Dr. Pedo you've been quite ornery lately. Are you still pissed that Gavin is doing more work that you :smuggrin:
 
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The stats have changed for this year. You now need a 99 and must be in the top 0.5%. If your school has less than 100 graduating students, you are screwed.
 

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drhobie7 said:
The stats have changed for this year. You now need a 99 and must be in the top 0.5%. If your school has less than 100 graduating students, you are screwed.
Not so. They are now accepting halves and quarters of students, so as to keep entrance statistics high.

So keep your head up. If your stats are good enough, at least half of you could matriculate. The other half will proabably end up doing SRPs for a long time.
 
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Pro-Dentite

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I don't really see the need for everyone to be such a smartass. It seems that everyone that gets into an ortho program is either right at the top of their class with unbelievable board scores or has connections to go along with good stats.

I'm just asking what odds would you give someone that is just outside of that highest group.

We all know that it's very possible for someone with those stats to get in, but I'd like to see some stats that show just how often this occurs. I don't know if there are any stats available on this, though.
 

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Pro-Dentite said:
I don't really see the need for everyone to be such a smartass. It seems that everyone that gets into an ortho program is either right at the top of their class with unbelievable board scores or has connections to go along with good stats.

I'm just asking what odds would you give someone that is just outside of that highest group.

We all know that it's very possible for someone with those stats to get in, but I'd like to see some stats that show just how often this occurs. I don't know if there are any stats available on this, though.
Since you're smart enough to get into dental school, why don't you put those noodles to good use. How in the world do you expect any of us to have the acceptance numbers you are inquiring about. Do you think programs tell the members at SDN the exact stats of each applicant and incoming resident. I mean, really, what do you want us to tell you. That you will have a 76.1% chance +/- a SD of 6.69% of getting into one of your top 3 programs. With some good bunghole lapping, those statistics can increase a mean of another 12%.

Good luck.
 

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Schools will rarely or never release any information about the applicants stats that they accept into residency. So most everything you hear is just heresay. Just judging by the Match stats and how difficult it is to get a 96 you probably have a better chance of matching than most applicants. I am making the assumption you are not a complete tool.

I assume you just wrote on here to get some reassurance, but with ortho, nothing is a gaurantee.

good luck with the application.
 

ItsGavinC

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Statistically speaking, there are WAY more ortho spots available at programs than there are applicants who score a 98 and are the top 5% of their class. So, therefore, other people HAVE to be getting accepted.

A 96 and top 15% is pretty good, in my opinion.
 

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Pro-Dentite said:
What are the odds that someone with these stats gets into an Ortho program?

It seems like everyone you talk to says, "You need to be top 5 with a 98 on Part I." I'm just curious if this is true or not.


AT WVU YOU HAVE TO BE IN THE TOP 2.
 
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Pro-Dentite

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Thanks for your answer, kato.

I haven't taken Part I yet, and I don't expect to score anything remotely close to 96. This question was purely out of curiosity after hearing so many people talk about how ridiculous your numbers have to be to match.

I was not aware that there are no published statistics on average board scores, gre, class rank , etc. of those that match.

It sounds like someone with those stats would have a very good shot at getting in somewhere. I was hoping for a thread with random anecdotes from people that had matched with lower than ideal numbers.
 

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Pro-Dentite said:
Thanks for your answer, kato.

I haven't taken Part I yet, and I don't expect to score anything remotely close to 96. This question was purely out of curiosity after hearing so many people talk about how ridiculous your numbers have to be to match.

I was not aware that there are no published statistics on average board scores, gre, class rank , etc. of those that match.

It sounds like someone with those stats would have a very good shot at getting in somewhere. I was hoping for a thread with random anecdotes from people that had matched with lower than ideal numbers.
Keep in mind that numbers--even for ortho--aren't everything. They're often prerequisite, but at the end of the day ortho programs, like any other specialty, want to fill their class with the group of individuals they feel would be best suited to work together and whom faculty/residents at the program would like to work with.
Numbers can be vital to help you get the interview, but realistically once you are interviewed, one of a few things happens from there: 1) you get in because you fit the above description; 2) you probably should get in somewhere but instead become a victim of the system (there are lots of great applicants from last year who have the rank, boards, EC's, research, personalities, etc. who are going through the circus again this year); or 3) you don't get in for a reason...perhaps you look great on paper but don't wow anyone in person.
You definitely don't have to be top 5% and 95+ on boards to be considered for an interview...it's already been mentioned how few applicants like that there really are. Being there can really make you considered strongly by multiple programs, but if you are wise about choosing which school to send apps to you can overcome "lower than ideal numbers" provided they aren't too low.
Good luck. :)
 
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Ramzi

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Well, I know it's very difficult to get into an ortho program but it doesn't mean you have to be a superhero! Anyway, I've just got my board scores, avg=94, a little bit disappointed but I'm gonna try my luck anyways.

My stats:
part 1= 94
TOEFL ibt= 117/120
GRE= 1200/1600
GPA= 3.79 (ECE)
Rank = 1/80
Nationality/School = Non-American
Research: 1 ortho paper in review, 2 in progress
Extracurriculars: many activities on the national scale

Any thoughts? if not, then wish me luck ;)
 

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Ramzi said:
Well, I know it's very difficult to get into an ortho program but it doesn't mean you have to be a superhero!
Yes, but being a superhero can greatly help your chances of matching.

For Ramzi, those sound like good stats, good luck!

For the OP, a 96/top 15% will probably get you invited to multiple interviews. That doesn't mean you'll get in though. I've met several people with stellar stats who fail to match on their first try - and those include people who graduated #1/had 95+ boards. In order to get in, you have to be invited to an interview and then get ranked high enough by the program to match there. Your chances of being invited are much better with a 96/top 15% versus an 85/bottom 50%. Having multiple interviews can mean squat too - there are people who get in with only 1 or 2 interviews, and those who didn't get in despite having 10+ interviews.
 

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what did you want us to tell you? do you WANT A COOKIE OR SOMETHING
 

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I believe that once you're invited for an interview everything else is put aside and the applicants are ranked based on their performance in the interview.

By the way, I've asked the head of ortho dept. of VCU about the most important factor they consider when reviewing applicants, he said that class rank is probably the most imp.
 

Ramzi

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Yes, but being a superhero can greatly help your chances of matching.
I'll be sure to wear my superhero suit for the interviews, and I hope they'd keep the windows open for me to enter :D
 

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Once you get to the interview it is largely a popularity contest. If you don't get in anywhere it may be that you have an abrasive or easily overlooked personality and/or didn't interview at enough places. That is why I always recommend for #1/97+ types to apply to as many places as they can afford, then do the trimming once you start actually getting interviews. I think you are silly to start cutting off the number of interviews at less than seven if you want to have a maximal chance of getting into a program.
 

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capisce? said:
Dr. Pedo you've been quite ornery lately. Are you still pissed that Gavin is doing more work that you :smuggrin:

Damn, you're on to me. :mad:
 

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ItsGavinC said:
Just give me the word and I'll ban him ;)
Come on, just a little humor for the forum. Rob should know that :thumbup:
 
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We had 7 out of 40ish go into ortho at UConn last year though I don't know how they all did in dental school. So it can be done even if you're not the best student.

Supposedly this is a huge heap of matches for ortho though compared to most dental schools (or so I've been told).
 

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Spirochete said:
what did you want us to tell you? do you WANT A COOKIE OR SOMETHING
Just remember everyone, warm cookies and cold milk are good for you... Hand that guy a cookie!
 

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kato999 said:
Schools will rarely or never release any information about the applicants stats that they accept into residency. So most everything you hear is just heresay. Just judging by the Match stats and how difficult it is to get a 96 you probably have a better chance of matching than most applicants. I am making the assumption you are not a complete tool.

I assume you just wrote on here to get some reassurance, but with ortho, nothing is a gaurantee.

good luck with the application.

I am a dental student at a west coast school, and our post-grad residency stats are posted in front of the admissions office.......
For ortho, 134 applied and 5 were accepted to the program. Average gpa of applicant was 3.6 and average of accepted was 3.8. Average part I score of applicant was 92 and average of accepted was 95.
So its not ridiculously high, it seems more like they are filling specific positions rather than looking for the highest scores.....
 

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I guess west coast schools are even more competitive, so what you're saying is a good sign...
 

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YL4life said:
Average part I score of applicant was 92 and average of accepted was 95.
95 is pretty damn high for an average. And 134 applicants seems low compared to other programs. What were you expecting? 97-99 avg? There aren't that many students to even fill all the ortho spots.
 

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YL4life said:
So its not ridiculously high, it seems more like they are filling specific positions rather than looking for the highest scores.....
An average of 95 is very high. Technically that's probably as close to the highest average that you could realistically have, especially with 130+ applicants. Not everybody can score a 98 or 99, so some of those mediocre 93s will pull the average down a bit. GPA doesn't matter since that's typically inflated anyway (hence class rank is useful).
 

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ItsGavinC said:
An average of 95 is very high. Technically that's probably as close to the highest average that you could realistically have, especially with 130+ applicants. Not everybody can score a 98 or 99, so some of those mediocre 93s will pull the average down a bit. GPA doesn't matter since that's typically inflated anyway (hence class rank is useful).
I was replying to the original poster with the NB part I 96 when I said the average of 95 is not that high, ie all programs are within reach. Obviously an average like that would allow the five accepted students to have for example a 93, 94, 95, 96, 97 on NBI.
So if the original poster has a 96, then he/she is fairly heavily weighted to get in based on score alone, while the lower scorers must have some other outstanding trait.
Moreover, the applicant average was 92, which is realistic average for applicants. Any program would choose applicants with higher scores, so an average of 95 for accepted students is not "out of reach" high.
 

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Moreover, the applicant average was 92, which is realistic average for applicants. Any program would choose applicants with higher scores, so an average of 95 for accepted students is not "out of reach" high
Are we talking applicants average is 92 or the people they interviewed have an average of 92? There’s a difference. I would say an applicant average of 92 is pretty high, but an interviewee average of 92 is not unrealistic
 

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YL4life said:
I am a dental student at a west coast school, and our post-grad residency stats are posted in front of the admissions office.......
For ortho, 134 applied and 5 were accepted to the program. Average gpa of applicant was 3.6 and average of accepted was 3.8. Average part I score of applicant was 92 and average of accepted was 95.
So its not ridiculously high, it seems more like they are filling specific positions rather than looking for the highest scores.....
There are six residents starting at UNC ortho this fall. I only know the stats for four of us, but we averaged a 4.0 GPA and a 97 on the boards. I think about 250-300 people applied here, but I am not sure.
 
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Tarheel said:
There are six residents starting at UNC ortho this fall. I only know the stats for four of us, but we averaged a 4.0 GPA and a 97 on the boards. I think about 250-300 people applied here, but I am not sure.
That's a bit misleading, considering UNC had unmatched spots. Ironic a program w/ that avg board and gpa score would have unmatched spots after match.
 

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capisce? said:
That's a bit misleading, considering UNC had unmatched spots. Ironic a program w/ that avg board and gpa score would have unmatched spots after match.
It is more misleading then you realize, but it is true.

Edit: I just realized who you are so I am sure you get it. Good luck!
 

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capisce? said:
That's a bit misleading, considering UNC had unmatched spots. Ironic a program w/ that avg board and gpa score would have unmatched spots after match.
A program who has problems filling the match forms must have other problems as well :D
 

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Some programs go on numbers only some go on the total person. Best thing to do is to appy to a number of programs, eat the cost and get in.
 

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Hey capisce, how's Cincy? Almost missed it with the screenname. Thanks goodness I still have Tarheel bailing me out.
 

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jpollei said:
Hey capisce, how's Cincy? Almost missed it with the screenname. Thanks goodness I still have Tarheel bailing me out.
Sent you a PM doc, good to hear from you. Say hi to the crew for me.
 

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Newb here.

I don't know if this is just for orthodontists or other dental specialities, but at the end of dental school, one has to take a test and get in the 90s to even be considered for orthodontists, right?

Is it possible to re-take the Part I test to attempt and get a higher score? And let's say you do, is your old score erased?
 

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A little advice?

The typical applicant that will obtain an ortho residency has a gpa closer to 4.0 then 3.5 and a board score above 95. That person also has extra curricular stuff to put on the appication along with research. I Have the gpa and board score but my time to do research and other stuff is limited. I'm married with 4 kids (my oldest is only 7). The last two semesters have been the most difficult in D-school and combined with studying for boards nearly killed me and my wife. Talking her down off the window ledge once or twice a week kind of got a little old after awhile. Now, I know that I can't do this to her and my little ones anymore by adding research and leadership stuff to my already full schedule. I'm worried about letting my application ride on what I've done already. I'm going to do some research as well (nothing major) but I think that will be pushing things to their limit. Plus, this really isn't fair to my wife and kids. What do you think? I go to USC where we have no ranking system and I have heard some programs set class ranking as one of their most critical determinants.
 

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You're fine. Do what's right for your family. If you have great numbers and can interview well, you've got as good a chance as anyone. Non-research extracurriculars aren't given much weight in ortho.
 

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DDSSlave said:
You're fine. Do what's right for your family. If you have great numbers and can interview well, you've got as good a chance as anyone. Non-research extracurriculars aren't given much weight in ortho.
Thanks for the input. I hope your right.
 

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UserFriendly said:
I don't know if this is just for orthodontists or other dental specialities, but at the end of dental school, one has to take a test and get in the 90s to even be considered for orthodontists, right?
People on SDN will tell you that you need at least a 90 to even get considered. That's an exaggeration in my view. I personally know a person at my school's ortho program who got 87 on Part I. Yes, 87. And no, this person isn't a URM (african-american, native indian, whatever... ). Most specialty programs look at the whole package. I think getting ridiculously high part I scores is only important if you don't have anything else going for you.
 

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SuperTrooper said:
And no, this person isn't a URM (african-american, native indian, whatever... ).
Is minority status looked at the same way as the predoc admissions? Just curious...
 

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SuperTrooper said:
People on SDN will tell you that you need at least a 90 to even get considered. That's an exaggeration in my view. I personally know a person at my school's ortho program who got 87 on Part I. Yes, 87. And no, this person isn't a URM (african-american, native indian, whatever... ). Most specialty programs look at the whole package. I think getting ridiculously high part I scores is only important if you don't have anything else going for you.

87 and non URM = nepotism. With a score like 87 this person would have to be ranked #1 in their class with some serious research.
 

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SuperTrooper said:
People on SDN will tell you that you need at least a 90 to even get considered. That's an exaggeration in my view. I personally know a person at my school's ortho program who got 87 on Part I. Yes, 87. And no, this person isn't a URM (african-american, native indian, whatever... ). Most specialty programs look at the whole package. I think getting ridiculously high part I scores is only important if you don't have anything else going for you.
you're way off again. for ortho and omfs i know for a fact that majority of programs have cut-offs of at least 90. application won't get past the secretary. your "person" maybe got a higher score 2nd time round, or maybe you're mistaken about their score....believe it or not, many student lie low all the way till mid-senior year. or else some serious connections....like up in rochester having your dad as an alumni, etc :)
 

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There are people who get in with <90. If you have an 87, no one will stop you from applying.

But, if you put applications right next to each other - an 87 with the "whole package" & and a 97 who is a complete tool - I would bet the 97 gets invited first, and the 87 gets put further down on the waitlist to be called.
 

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S Files said:
you're way off again.
"Again"? You must have me confused with somebody else, ******. That was my first serious post in this thread, and others currently in the dental forums. But thanks anyways. I'll take griffin's opinion over yours anyday.
 
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