Osteopathic Internal Medicine, Career options?

[printers]

Hello, I am a 4th year Osteopathic student.

I was wondering what people who graduate from Osteopathic Internal Medicine residencies usually do.

Do they go to
1/ Osteopathic fellowships?
2/ Allopathic fellowships?
3/ Is there any limitations on hospitals they can work in as Internal Medicine Hospitalists?
4/ What is the advantage of graduating from an Osteopathic Internal Medicine residency?

I am asking this question out of genuine curiosity.
No one ever told me the answers to these, so I am asking here.

Thank you.

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[DrWBD]

You might want to PM JayneCobb for specific info about osteopathic internal medicine residency.

IMO osteopathic internal medicine residencies are pointless due to ACGME IM residencies being wide open for DOs these days.

 

[printers]

I keep hearing that certain Osteopathic residencies are "fighting for funding".

I know the economy is not very good, but I didn't get the impression that non-Osteopathic residencies were "fighting for funding" to train residents. In fact, some are increasing the number of residents they are training for the coming year.

What is the real reason they are not being funded to train residents?
Again, I ask in genuine curiosity. The number of Osteopathic medicine students have increased a whole lot while I have been in school. In fact, I think at least 3 schools have opened brand new.

I think it's strange that they are reducing residency slots while increasing student enrollment.

Any reply would be much appreciated.

 

[Old_Mil]

Hello, I am a 4th year Osteopathic student.

I was wondering what people who graduate from Osteopathic Internal Medicine residencies usually do.

Do they go to

2/ Allopathic fellowships?

Not a chance.

4/ What is the advantage of graduating from an Osteopathic Internal Medicine residency?

There is no advantage, and several potential disadvantages.

In general, people who go to osteopathic residencies do so for one of two reasons: (1) They are applying for a competitive field like Ortho, Derm, Surgery, EM, Rads, or Gas and feel that they either won't be competitive in the allo match or want to increase their odds of matching to the field or (2) Are married to the idea of living in one spot that doesn't have an allo program.

Otherwise, osteopathic grads usually chose the allo match.

 

[JayneCobb]

Do they go to
1/ Osteopathic fellowships?

They can, but there are not that many Osteopathic fellowships as there aren't that many large Osteopathic hospitals anymore. For instance, there are only 6 Pulm-CC Osteopathic programs with 3 of those being in Michigan.

2/ Allopathic fellowships?

Absolutely. Caveat emptor, there are things to be aware of and should be a limiting factor if you actually consider this route. 1) You’d be coming from a Community hospital which is probably small 2) from a DO program which few if any MD fellowship directors have actually heard of, 3) you can not be board certified by the ACGME and some programs won't accept you because of that. You can, however, become board certified through the ACOI if you've completed an AOA residency and go through their exception process.

I am a resident in an AOA residency and am currently going through the application process for ACGME fellowship spots.

3/ Is there any limitations on hospitals they can work in as Internal Medicine Hospitalists?

I've never seen any official policies, but I've heard of some old school MD bias against DOs. I've not practiced out in the real world yet, so I'm not an expert on the matter. But for what it's worth, I get 5 or so calls/emails from recruiters every week from all over.

4/ What is the advantage of graduating from an Osteopathic Internal Medicine residency?

The only advantage for me is that I would like to go back and teach at an AOA Medicine program and if I ever wanted to be a PD, you have to have graduated from an AOA program. Other than that, I cannot think of any real and consistent advantage over an ACGME program.

 

[JayneCobb]

I keep hearing that certain Osteopathic residencies are "fighting for funding".

I do know now of programs which are reducing their numbers, except for instances where what appears to be poor management skills by the schools admin like at Oklahoma State. My program is trying to expand; the only rate-limiting factor is actually obtaining more funding. But that's the same issue at even MD programs. The majority of residency spots are funded through Medicaid and the number of funded spots through them has not been increased in years. So the only way to obtain new funding is to have non-government sources to fund them.

Now the biggest concern is that the AOA does have many spots which go unfilled every year and that they are not reorganizing or improving the quality of the spots that they do have. There are some programs, which, at least in my overly arrogant opinion, should not be programs as they're in hospitals with little to no capabilities over the bare minimum.

Not a chance.

While it is difficult, it is not unheard of. I know several DOs who attended AOA residencies who are currently in ACGME programs. Like I mentioned before, it is about finding a program willing to overlook that you cannot become ACGME board certified and is willing to take you. I'm currently trying my luck and seeing if I can go this very route myself and I have a few interviews lined up.

 

[Doowai]

but I didn't get the impression that non-Osteopathic residencies were "fighting for funding" to train residents. .

I got an email from Mayo Arizona who said they were not going to do any interviews afterall this year because they were cancelling their program due to funding.

 

[IMDoc24]

Not a chance.



There is no advantage, and several potential disadvantages.

In general, people who go to osteopathic residencies do so for one of two reasons: (1) They are applying for a competitive field like Ortho, Derm, Surgery, EM, Rads, or Gas and feel that they either won't be competitive in the allo match or want to increase their odds of matching to the field or (2) Are married to the idea of living in one spot that doesn't have an allo program.

Otherwise, osteopathic grads usually chose the allo match.

Your answer to one is false when stated that way. Yes, they can go onto allo fellowship, just not in Cards or GI. I have seen specific examples of DO IM residents going onto Endocrine, ID, nephrology, and P/CC. Most go onto Hospitalist careers, though. Only advantage, not having to go through the hoops of Resolution 42, and being able to be a program director or academic in the DO world. Also, some DO's do go onto DO fellowship, of course, in cards, GI, whatever. There is a definite advantage to a dually-accredited (ACGME/AOA) residency... more fellowship options. See: UConn, Pennsylvania Hospital, St. Barnabas, etc.

 

[dragonfly99]

Yeah, there are DO grads in medicine fellowships...I've seen one in rheum at one of the fancy allo hospitals where I trained. To do cards would be really really rare, and I've never seen one in GI. Wake Forest had a DO in their cards fellowship I believe...I think you'd need good USMLE scores and to have done a lot of research, though, to even have a shot.

 

[DrWBD]

Yeah, there are DO grads in medicine fellowships...I've seen one in rheum at one of the fancy allo hospitals where I trained. To do cards would be really really rare, and I've never seen one in GI. Wake Forest had a DO in their cards fellowship I believe...I think you'd need good USMLE scores and to have done a lot of research, though, to even have a shot.

Were they from AOA residencies or ACGME? That is the issue here.

 

[dragonfly99]

I really think they likely did their residency at allopathic hospitals, but I never asked them. Like was mentioned above, if you did not then you cannot be board certified apparently, which might affect a lot of programs picking you vs. someone else for a fellowship. They likely would wonder, "Why didn't this person just do an allopathic residency if he/she wanted to do an allopathic fellowship?".

 

[Medikit]

Yeah, there are DO grads in medicine fellowships...I've seen one in rheum at one of the fancy allo hospitals where I trained. To do cards would be really really rare, and I've never seen one in GI. Wake Forest had a DO in their cards fellowship I believe...I think you'd need good USMLE scores and to have done a lot of research, though, to even have a shot.

That's Dr. Kurt Daniels. He is an amazing teacher and a wonderful person. He taught our EKG lecture during the 3rd year IM rotation. He received his DO from Oklahoma State and was chief resident at Wake Forest.

 

[BobBarker]

One of OSU's IM attendings is going to Wake to do CC/Pulm fellowship this summer.

 

[Medikit]

One of OSU's IM attendings is going to Wake to do CC/Pulm fellowship this summer.

He's probably met Wake's Interventional Pulmonology director who is a Nova Southeastern alum and trained at Tulane.

 

[JayneCobb]

One of OSU's IM attendings is going to Wake to do CC/Pulm fellowship this summer.

He's probably met Wake's Interventional Pulmonology director who is a Nova Southeastern alum and trained at Tulane.

The attending actually trained one of the Fellows that graduated either soon or just recently from Wake Forest.