Osteopathic neurosurgery hopefuls

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Idiopathic

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So, this must be the smallest group in medicine. With something like 9 available residency spots each year, who among you is considering this field? I would like some feedback on programs and experiences, especially from 4th years who chose or specifically did not choose neurosurgery or a specific program.

I know that we all like to talk so I dont figure there will be a problem here;)
 

Homunculus

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i figure since you're a DO you'll be able to spread your patients' sutures apart and surgerize them, therefore being a much better surgeon than your allopathic colleagues . . . ;)

honestly though, you should try to get in touch with one of my classmates who matched into neurosurg in chicago. pm me and i can give you his name.

i think my class did pretty well. we'll find out when our match list goes public. :)
 

Idiopathic

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Ive talked with your classmate, and he gave me some advice, especially about his program. I am curious about other programs and also about the process: how many candidates, how competitive, what difficulties are encountered.

And please, no more cranial jokes...we all know it doesnt work:laugh:
 

giznut12

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Idiopathic...are you planning on taking the usmle? I was thinking about taking both tests, but have decided not to take the usmle. The way I look at it, if a program does not accept the comlex, they are not accepting nor respecting your education as an osteopathic physician....and are more likely to treat you as inferior. I was wondering if anyone else feels the same. Just curious.
 

DrMom

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For some specialties, you're just going to have to suck it up and take the COMLEX. Don't take it to mean that you'll be considered inferior...a neurosurg or other competitive specialty isn't going to accept anyone they consider to be inferior. They're just used to dealing with the USMLE (right or wrong, that is the case).
 

Idiopathic

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Originally posted by giznut12
Idiopathic...are you planning on taking the usmle? I was thinking about taking both tests, but have decided not to take the usmle. The way I look at it, if a program does not accept the comlex, they are not accepting nor respecting your education as an osteopathic physician....and are more likely to treat you as inferior. I was wondering if anyone else feels the same. Just curious.

If you want to do allo neurosurg (fat chance) or ortho (more likely), you cant help but take the USMLE. Why screw yourself because schools dont understand how to interpret the scores. It isnt necessarily about 'selling your soul', it is just about getting what you need to succeed.
 

VentdependenT

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Originally posted by giznut12
Idiopathic...are you planning on taking the usmle? I was thinking about taking both tests, but have decided not to take the usmle. The way I look at it, if a program does not accept the comlex, they are not accepting nor respecting your education as an osteopathic physician....and are more likely to treat you as inferior. I was wondering if anyone else feels the same. Just curious.

Thats a crock. Give it up. You should give the program directors the chance to compare equal applications. The USMLE allows that. If I were an allo residency I wouldn't even consider a COMLEX score. I'd say, "if this guy wants to go allo then he should take our friggen board exams. Otherwise go back to the osteo world."

USMLE = Infinitely higher chances of matching at competitive programs...or you can screw yourself and maintain that old school insipid attitude. Its your life.
 

giznut12

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Why you mad VentdenpenT? I know several people from my school that matched in ortho (allopathic) residencies without taking the USMLE. However, I do believe that they rotated at the hospital in which they matched. There is alot more that goes into matching than just bords alone. You have to be somewhat personable and not mad at the world like VentdepenT.
 

giznut12

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Oh by the way..You aren't a residency director are you? I didn't think so.
 

VentdependenT

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I'm definitely not mad at the world. What a ludicrous idea. I am mad at people like you who perpetuate the idea that DO's should consider allo programs as inferior for wanting us to take the USMLE.

By the way, where did they match, and when? Was it military or NRMP?

I had multiple PD's tell me that taking the USMLE was the best thing I could have done for my application. I'd say that lends quite a bit of credence to my logic. Wouldn't you agree?
 

Homunculus

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Originally posted by giznut12
There is alot more that goes into matching than just bords alone.

true, but why handicap yourself when you don't have to? using EM as an example (i had some close friends match allo EM-- i matched allo peds), you're doing yourself a disservice by not taking the USMLE. i used to buy into the whole "if they don't take the comlex, it's not worth going there" until i went through the match process. taking the usmle lets them compare apples to apples. that's it. there is no anti-do conspiracy. if you want to get into an allopathic residency, it will help you tremendously to take that extra step to 1)allow them to compare you to other candidates and 2) show them you're willing to work a bit extra to get that slot.
 
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VentdependenT

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Spoken like a true sage Boomer. Like I said before Jizzynuts, its your life and you can screw it up however you want to. Just don't encourage others to screw themselves.
 

DrMom

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Originally posted by giznut12
Why you mad VentdenpenT? I know several people from my school that matched in ortho (allopathic) residencies without taking the USMLE. However, I do believe that they rotated at the hospital in which they matched. There is alot more that goes into matching than just bords alone. You have to be somewhat personable and not mad at the world like VentdepenT.


That's quite a leap you made there.


Of course DOs can match well without the USMLE, but it is obvious that not taking it is a limiting factor. It is a choice that you have to make, but don't jump on someone else for pointing out the obvious.
 

DireWolf

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Originally posted by Homunculus
i hadn't heard that. i wouldn't be surprised though. we landed some pretty competitive slots, both osteo and allo.

Since this thread has been hijacked already, I know someone matched Baylor anesthesia. :p
 

giznut12

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Actually, I heard it from our Dean. At any rate, two DO's that I know very well matched in allo residencies at Geisinger medical center in Danville,PA (one in orthopedics and one in DERM) WOW!!! And they only took the COMLEX.....imagine that. They must have been extremely lucky.

Dr. Mom....you are taught by the infamous Dr. Goljan. Am I correct? What does he recommend?
 

DrMom

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Originally posted by giznut12
Dr. Mom....you are taught by the infamous Dr. Goljan. Am I correct? What does he recommend?


I am, along with Homunculus (a couple of years ago), Idiopathic, and DireWolf.

I can't think of a time I've heard Goljan make a statement on whether or not to take the USMLE, but maybe one of the others around here has heard something.
 

giznut12

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What % of your classmates take the USMLE? We only had 10 take it last year and 83 out of 150 matched in allopathic residency programs. Not all in highly competitive specialties, but allo none the less.
 

DrMom

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I've never asked. Idiopathic probably has some idea. I've heard a number of classmates talking about taking it.
 

giznut12

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I guess it also depends on what region of the country you plan on practicing in. I actually spoke to my advisor the other day and she advised me that if I plan on applying to programs in PA, OH, MICH....I might not need to take the usmle as opposed to applying to programs in cali or florida. Its sort of hard to fork over $435 for a test that might not have been necessary.
 

DrMom

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I based my decision on what I want to do and where. I decided not to take the USMLE, but I am aware that it limits my options a bit.
 

DireWolf

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When I asked Dr. Goljan, he said to take USMLE if you plan on pursuing an allopathic residency. He said it gives the PDs a way to compare you to the rest of the MD applicants. It has nothing to do with discrimination. Traditionally, not many students at OSU-COM take USMLE, but our class is anything but traditional. I would imagine well over half of our class will take Step 1.
 
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Idiopathic

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Originally posted by DrMom
I am, along with Homunculus (a couple of years ago), Idiopathic, and DireWolf.

I can't think of a time I've heard Goljan make a statement on whether or not to take the USMLE, but maybe one of the others around here has heard something.

He says you shouldnt do it. I disagree. However, I dont equate taking the USMLE with wanting to prove that I am equal, I just want the PD's to have every opportunity to compare me favorably when deciding whether to interview me. If I wanted to do FP or IM, I dont think I would take the USMLE, but for a surgical residency, you damn well better believe I will, just to cover my ass. Plus, I think I will rock the test.;)
 

DireWolf

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Originally posted by Idiopathic
He says you shouldnt do it.

Interesting. Maybe someone should test him for schizophrenia.
 

Idiopathic

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Originally posted by DireWolf
When I asked Dr. Goljan, he said to take USMLE if you plan on pursuing an allopathic residency. He said it gives the PDs a way to compare you to the rest of the MD applicants. It has nothing to do with discrimination. Traditionally, not many students at OSU-COM take USMLE, but our class is anything but traditional. I would imagine well over half of our class will take Step 1.

I think that is high, personally. I would bet 25-30% is more in line, but it doesnt matter.

While he was rambling in class the other day, he pretty much said "screw that test, you guys dont need to take it, anyone who wants you will take the COMLEX, yadda, yadda, yadda (at least that is what I got out of it)"...BUT AT THE SAME TIME, he knows how valuable it is, and if you want to pursue a top specialty/residency, you have to. See, everyone at our school still thinks they are training 88 FP docs every year.
 

DrMom

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Originally posted by Idiopathic
See, everyone at our school still thinks they are training 88 FP docs every year.


It'll be interesting to see how that pans out with our class. Didn't look too good for FP when they polled us.
 

Bull's eye

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someone at my school would have matched allo N-surg this year but chose another specialty. He interviewed at 11 places including Mizzou (didn't fill this year). He was called by that program and asked why he withdrew and he told them. So it is possible. Oh, and he took (and did well on) the USMLE. PM me for more info.
 

DireWolf

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You think only 30%? Many people that you wouldn't expect to take USMLE have told me they will. So I figured at least 50%. But then again, I can hardly find my way around the building, so trying to get a feel for the pulse of our class is not my forte. I wasn't at the lecture you're talking about (big surprise). I asked him this in his office last semester. It is weird how every professor seems to address our class as if we are all going into FP.
 
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DireWolf

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Damn you Seinfeld!
 

DireWolf

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I'm going to finish this whiskey and coke and go to bed. Lesson of the day - don't drink and post.
 

pakijiga

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Originally posted by Idiopathic
I heard someone matched Gas @ Mayo.


how can you match gas out of med school; dont you have to first do IM and apply for fellowship??
 

DrMom

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anesthesiology is not an IM subspecialty
 

DireWolf

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Maybe he was thinking of gastroenterology.
 

LovelyRita

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anesthesiology is not an IM subspecialty

Not if Gas still equals Anesthesiology. You may be thinking Pulmonology?



:laugh: So what DOES "GAS" MEAN?!?!? ( I was just about to ask and I stumbled upon these last 2 posts..)

oh yeah and the one about gastro too.....what does it all mean?:confused:
 

Homunculus

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Originally posted by Idiopathic
I just want the PD's to have every opportunity to compare me favorably when deciding whether to interview me

the USMLE question in a nutshell.

as for Goljan needing to be tested-- he's admitted he's bipolar, so i wouldn't be surprised to find some comorbid psychiatric issues.

i would take what Goljan says about the application process and USMLE (good or bad) with a grain of salt. the man hasn't been involved in residency applicaition or selection in decades, i think he's a *little* outta the loop. but the man knows his pathology.
 

pakijiga

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so gas means anesthesiology?? and gastro means GI??

if autonomics of the head wasnt confusing enough!!
 

VentdependenT

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Originally posted by pakijiga
how can you match gas out of med school; dont you have to first do IM and apply for fellowship??

Apply for either a categorical position (intern year linked to gas years) or a TY/prelim year AND an advanced (CA-1-3 years) position. I chose the latter.
 

pakijiga

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Originally posted by VentdependenT
Apply for either a categorical position (intern year linked to gas years) or a TY/prelim year AND an advanced (CA-1-3 years) position. I chose the latter.


hmm that sounds like a different language.. can you explain that in terms that a dumb MSI like me would understand..
 

r90t

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I got a Rad Onc spot at an allopathic institution without taking the USMLE. With that said, I would highly recommend it and should have taken it myself, since I was trying to get into a competative program. It gives the program directors an easy way to compare apples to apples, instead if trying to convert comlex to usmle. It isn't about respecting the DO vs MD. When you are sorting through 100 applicants for 12 interview spots, you do things like set USMLE cut offs for possible candidates.

I had interviews with PhDs (the researchers) and I could see the gears turning in their head when they were discussing COMLEX scores.
 

DireWolf

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Very impressive. Where did you match for rad onc?
 
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