Osteopathic Programs using USMLE

[Aub43]

Hey guys, I'm new the forum and recently took my USMLE/COMLEX and still awaiting results. My feel is I actually scored better on USMLE than COMLEX and was wondering if any ACOGME programs would look at the USMLE in addition to the COMLEX. My preferred specialty at this point is Ortho at this point which is obviously competitive. So anyway, have any students interviewed/been screened with their USMLE results and are program directors interested at all in the results of the USMLE??

Thanks

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[Kuba]

Why is your status MD/PHD? ..and there is not such thing as the ACOGME, its called the AOA. It looks like you haven't begun the necessary research into the process. Although we can likely help answer some questions here, its probably better to start researching the match process yourself. I would start with the AOA website. Good luck.

 

[DocEspana]

Sorry for the audio quality on this, but the sentiment is perfect. I just read this (and his md/phd status) and thought of this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zqCAzi8odI[/youtube]

 

[voidlogin]

I'm not interested in ortho, so my knowledge is limited, but some of my friends are going for ortho. From what I've seen, its very program dependent, and dare I say, applicant dependent. If you want ortho, you must rotate at that hospital and go to clinics and lectures. So the PD and residents will get to know you very quickly. If you impress them, comlex is enough. But I've known people who got 240-250 usmle not get accepted because of various reasons.

 

[Aub43]

I'm unsure how my status ended up being MD/PhD, I must have hurried through the registering process. The ACOGME was a term that was thrown around our campus and I guess it is not proper terminology. Anyway, I feel I have researched a good bit on the admissions process but can not really find information on whether AOA residency programs take USMLE into consideration along with the COMLEX Level 1. Hypothetically, let's say I scored a 240 on USMLE and a 540 on COMLEX. How much weight, if any, would be given to the USMLE Step 1 score??

I also understand how AOA residency programs place emphasis on your "audition" rotations and understand the importance meshing well with the residents/showing effort/working overtime etc..

DocEspana, thanks for welcoming me to the forum... you seem like a real winner..

 

[DocEspana]

DocEspana, thanks for welcoming me to the forum... you seem like a real winner..

Oh I am *the* winner. But I also don't take this stuff all that seriously. I answer good questions and mock poor ones. Your weird mishmash of names and terms made me laugh a ton.

But no. No AOA program is allowed to take your USMLE step 1 scores into account. In some unofficial capacity I'm sure they could see them, but killing those if you didnt do the same to your COMLEX won't do you any favors in the AOA world.

 

[Aub43]

That's the answer I expected... thanks.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Oh I am *the* winner. But I also don't take this stuff all that seriously. I answer good questions and mock poor ones. Your weird mishmash of names and terms made me laugh a ton.

But no. No AOA program is allowed to take your USMLE step 1 scores into account. In some unofficial capacity I'm sure they could see them, but killing those if you didnt do the same to your COMLEX won't do you any favors in the AOA world.

I've actually heard otherwise about this. I'm sure some AOA rule somewhere probably states that AOA programs can't "officially" use USMLE scores, but there are certainly tales from the interview trail about programs "unofficially" doing exactly that (or at least asking pointed questions about interviewees' USMLE scores).

 

[MSmentor018]

it's all program based. if an AOA program knows how to read an usmle score then the PD can use the comlex conversion formula to extrapolate how much better you did based on the usmle. this of course is all on the assumption that they want to do it. the conversion is not an exactly an approved method. with that being said the comlex is the exam for our license and that's what AOA programs use. I did interviews for DO and MD....only a few knew the scores for both exams
like the previous post said: rotating is definitely the way to go, esp if your scores suck but I know plenty of students that was solely praying on that method and it failed them. a bad score is hard to ignore unless you really knocked their socks off on rotations. my advice is to impress them on paper also by slam dunking step 2. good luck!

 

[DocEspana]

I've actually heard otherwise about this. I'm sure some AOA rule somewhere probably states that AOA programs can't "officially" use USMLE scores, but there are certainly tales from the interview trail about programs "unofficially" doing exactly that (or at least asking pointed questions about interviewees' USMLE scores).

Yea. They're not supposed to ask and in theory you can whistle blow on them if you feel they are trying to use the USMLE as an official measuring stick. There was a thread on this not all that long ago. The gist of it was that: while you're more than free to not disclose your USMLE at all, and they can't ask you for it. You can disclose it if its impressive (just dont have a dismal COMLEX to go with it) for subtle brownie points. Also, if they find you took the exam and it didnt go well you had better tell the truth. Lying about not taking it when they don't know about it? Solid plan. Lying about not taking it when they know you took it: ruh roh.

 

[MSmentor018]

Yea. They're not supposed to ask and in theory you can whistle blow on them if you feel they are trying to use the USMLE as an official measuring stick.

I don't know if that's one of the no-no questions to ask. it's usually religion, race, sex, marriage, pregnancy, that kind of stuff. I am pretty sure any type of academics is fair game. the ERAS packet IS your academic stats and they can ask anything on there, including the box "did you take the usmle". there's a list that's not suppose to be asked but regardless, whistle blow on the program that you're trying to get into.....yeah that's going to go over about as well as a fart in church.

here's a study published sept 2010 on the subject by acgme. aoa runs by it's own set of rules but when it comes to civil liberties, it'll run parallel with acgme
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951770/

Results
Ninety percent of the 63 respondents in the study remember being asked at least one potentially discriminatory question. Among these, students were asked about their marital status (86%), about children (31%), about plans for pregnancy (10%), where they were born (54%) and/or about their national origin (15%), and about religious and ethical beliefs (24%). The majority of students did not think the questions changed their decision to rank the program, although the questions changed the way some students ranked the program, either lowering or raising the rank.

 

[DocEspana]

I don't know if that's one of the no-no questions to ask. it's usually religion, race, sex, marriage, pregnancy, that kind of stuff. I am pretty sure any type of academics is fair game. the ERAS packet IS your academic stats and they can ask anything on there, including the box "did you take the usmle". there's a list that's not suppose to be asked but regardless, whistle blow on the program that you're trying to get into.....yeah that's going to go over about as well as a fart in church.

here's a study published sept 2010 on the subject by acgme. aoa runs by it's own set of rules but when it comes to civil liberties, it'll run parallel with acgme
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951770/

Results
Ninety percent of the 63 respondents in the study remember being asked at least one potentially discriminatory question. Among these, students were asked about their marital status (86%), about children (31%), about plans for pregnancy (10%), where they were born (54%) and/or about their national origin (15%), and about religious and ethical beliefs (24%). The majority of students did not think the questions changed their decision to rank the program, although the questions changed the way some students ranked the program, either lowering or raising the rank.

They're allowed to ask about it if you wish to disclose it, they're not allowed to use it against you. It's a complainable offense if you feel it was used against you. The distinction is too subtle for my original feeble wording to properly convey. Of course, if they just don't believe you're telling them the truth, or if you complain about them, your application goes right in the garbage. Which as you said, makes one more powerless since complaining is as popular as mike vick at a peta convention.

 

[Skippygonenuts]

They're allowed to ask about it if you wish to disclose it, they're not allowed to use it against you. It's a complainable offense if you feel it was used against you. The distinction is too subtle for my original feeble wording to properly convey. Of course, if they just don't believe you're telling them the truth, or if you complain about them, your application goes right in the garbage. Which as you said, makes one more powerless since complaining is as popular as mike vick at a peta convention.

No they are actually not allowed to bring up any of those subjects by law. A residency interview is indeed a job interview and same rules apply.

Unfortunately, whether they're allowed to or not, they do. Flipping the script certainly isn't gonna get u the position, neither is suing or all making use of all of your "rights"..

 

[DocEspana]

No they are actually not allowed to bring up any of those subjects by law. A residency interview is indeed a job interview and same rules apply.

Unfortunately, whether they're allowed to or not, they do. Flipping the script certainly isn't gonna get u the position, neither is suing or all making use of all of your "rights"..

not law. AOA policy. Which is a very different beast. The USMLE is a legitimate qualification that you can chose to disclose or not disclose. And they are not legally in any trouble if they ask you, but on a lesser level the AOA gets really pissed if they ask you without you disclosing or insinuating its something you wish to discuss.

 

[da Vincis World]

If you got a 240 I wouldn't worry about COMLEX.....just match ACGME.

 

[littleb53]

hi all,
I actually have similar questions. I scored 220 on USMLE / 600++ on COMLEX. I took USMLE earlier and I was too nervous and not ready I supposed. Anyways, though like some of you said, DO programs are not allowed to use USMLE score against you, whats the likelyhood they are going to find out my average USMLE score?

With my 220@USMLE, do I have no chance with allopathic residencies such as dermatology / radiology despite I did pretty well on COMLEX?

On the other hand,
With my 600++@COMLEX, am I all of a sudden qualified for all osteopathic residencies despite the average USMLE score?

 

[sylvanthus]

If you just apply AOA, you do not have to release your USMLE scores. But, if you apply allopathic, then you have to release them. So, if you want to just use your good COMLEX score, you can apply osteopathic and not even mention the USMLE scores.

 

[the alchemist]

I've actually heard otherwise about this. I'm sure some AOA rule somewhere probably states that AOA programs can't "officially" use USMLE scores, but there are certainly tales from the interview trail about programs "unofficially" doing exactly that (or at least asking pointed questions about interviewees' USMLE scores).

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