Osteopathic schools in Canada vs the medical schools in the US

[Zahra.sh]

Hello everyone.

This is the first time I'm posting a question here on studentdoctor.net, so I'm hoping I'm doing it right!
And I would really appreciate your responses.

I am a Canadian citizen and since the Canadian medical schools are usually not fair in accepting students, I am thinking about the US medical schools (I don't have a problem with it being really difficult,but I can't stand working hard only to be rejected because of no reason at all!!).

Now my question is,if I want to come back after graduation and live in Canada,which one would be the wiser choice? Going to a US medical school as an international student and then after you're done there trying to come back to Canada and get permission to work here, OR, going to an osteopathic school in Canada and then specialize in a medical field after?

Thank you all so much.

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[OrdinaryDO]

I am in no way a specialist in any of these areas of interest, but I can say strictly from reading posts from Canadians that getting into a U.S. medical school proves to be just as big as a disadvantage as you are talking about in Canadian medical school and many programs here won't accept Canadian students. I would try to get into medical school in Canada, but I don't think it hurts to apply to U.S. schools, either. Why not just apply to both and hope for the best?

 

[ConfusedChemist]

I am in no way a specialist in any of these areas of interest, but I can say strictly from reading posts from Canadians that getting into a U.S. medical school proves to be just as big as a disadvantage as you are talking about in Canadian medical school and many programs here won't accept Canadian students. I would try to get into medical school in Canada, but I don't think it hurts to apply to U.S. schools, either. Why not just apply to both and hope for the best?

It's really hard to get into Canadian schools, we don't have an 'osteophathic' equivalent that's easier to get into. It can be easier to get into US MD schools than a lot of Canadian Schools
However, DO from the US is considered an IMG in Canada......so your chances of ever working in Canada are er slim if you go DO.You would need to get a US residency, plus a Visa, and likely need to return to Canada fr a couple years in the middle of residency due o visa reuirements

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

It's really hard to get into Canadian schools, we don't have an 'osteophathic' equivalent that's easier to get into. It can be easier to get into US MD schools than a lot of Canadian Schools
However, DO from the US is considered an IMG in Canada......so your chances of ever working in Canada are er slim if you go DO.You would need to get a US residency, plus a Visa, and likely need to return to Canada fr a couple years in the middle of residency due o visa reuirements

DOs aren't IMG in all provinces. Canada will accept US residency also. Not sure why that would cause a visa issue

 

[ConfusedChemist]

DOs aren't IMG in all provinces. Canada will accept US residency also. Not sure why that would cause a visa issue

Because Health Canada is putting restrictions on the number of Statements of need for Canadians in the US in ALL specialties starting next year, so only ~300 Canadians can do a FM residency in the US, compared to an unlimited number now....
So for MDs its fine, apply to Canada instead. But now you will have thousands of Canadians in the US and Carib, Ireland, etc. ALL applying for 300 FM SONs. and the SoNs are purely based on number available-doesn't matter if you're DO or IMG from the caribean. First come first serve

Also, a J1 Visa, which is most common, does require a 2 year return....

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Because Health Canada is putting restrictions on the number of Statements of need for Canadians in the US in ALL specialties starting next year, so only ~300 Canadians can do a FM residency in the US, compared to an unlimited number now

Also, a J1 Visa, which is most common, does require a 2 year return....

OP osteopathic schools in Canada aren't medical schools only ones in the US are.

@ConfusedChemist
Do you have proof of this?

This is what I have read:
The answer is a resounding NO. The DO path is NOT one of no-return to Canada. In fact, in the province of British Columbia, the CaRMs website quite clearly states that DOs are granted the first iteration for residency matching as Canadian MDs. The same goes for the province of Ontario. One can try matching for residency in BC, or the easier method is to do a residency in the US, then return to Canada.

The vast majority of Canadian students doing DO in the US choose to pursue a US MD (ACGME) residency after medical school. It is also feasible (and probably easier) to complete a residency in the US, and then move back to Canada to practice medicine (while making sure to take all the Canadian licensing exams in the process). If all the licensing exams are done, and the Canadian USDO has successfully completed an ACGME residency with the equivalent length of training indicated by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (RCPSC) - then the provinces have no basis to bar your entry back into Canada.

As for coming back to Canada eventually with a US trained DO medical degree, it is done all the time. In fact, the COA, Canadian Osteopathic Association recently stated the Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine "has announced its intent to recruit 20-25 qualified Canadian students each year over the next 2-3 years to help promote osteopathic medicine in Canada. MSUCOM has taken the initiative to recruit qualified Canadian applicants and will be setting a special tuition rate for these students, the amount to soon be determined." See www.osteopathic.ca for more info.

The path to licensure in Canada as a DO is the same as that for a US trained MD. The only difference is the additional board exams we have to take - i.e., COMLEX series, and the MCCEE (in addition to the USMLEs, and MCCQEs).

http://studentdo.ca/drupal_beta/faqs

 

[futuremdforme]

If you want to be a doctor, going to an osteopathic school in Canada isn't an option as you will not be a physician... So the US is your option.

Canadian schools are difficult, but it's overly simplistic to say they are "not fair" just because you're unlikely to be accepted.

 

[ConfusedChemist]

OP osteopathic schools in Canada aren't medical schools only ones in the US are.

@ConfusedChemist
Do you have proof of this?

This is what I have read:
The answer is a resounding NO. The DO path is NOT one of no-return to Canada. In fact, in the province of British Columbia, the CaRMs website quite clearly states that DOs are granted the first iteration for residency matching as Canadian MDs. The same goes for the province of Ontario. One can try matching for residency in BC, or the easier method is to do a residency in the US, then return to Canada.

The vast majority of Canadian students doing DO in the US choose to pursue a US MD (ACGME) residency after medical school. It is also feasible (and probably easier) to complete a residency in the US, and then move back to Canada to practice medicine (while making sure to take all the Canadian licensing exams in the process). If all the licensing exams are done, and the Canadian USDO has successfully completed an ACGME residency with the equivalent length of training indicated by the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (RCPSC) - then the provinces have no basis to bar your entry back into Canada.

As for coming back to Canada eventually with a US trained DO medical degree, it is done all the time. In fact, the COA, Canadian Osteopathic Association recently stated the Michigan State University College of Osteopathic Medicine "has announced its intent to recruit 20-25 qualified Canadian students each year over the next 2-3 years to help promote osteopathic medicine in Canada. MSUCOM has taken the initiative to recruit qualified Canadian applicants and will be setting a special tuition rate for these students, the amount to soon be determined." See www.osteopathic.ca for more info.

The path to licensure in Canada as a DO is the same as that for a US trained MD. The only difference is the additional board exams we have to take - i.e., COMLEX series, and the MCCEE (in addition to the USMLEs, and MCCQEs).

http://studentdo.ca/drupal_beta/faqs

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/alt_formats/pdf/hhr-rhs/postgrad-postdoc/cat_b-list-liste-eng.pdf

The post you have quoted is outdated.
2 years ago, even this year, DO was a reasonable path to get back to Canada. Now it's risky to assume you'l even find a residency in the states.
Its going to be risky starting now, just look at those numbers of SoNs compared to the thousands of Canadians hoping for US residency.
And US residencies, if you read that doc, are not going to transfer so easy

 

[ChrisMack390]

OP you should fix your attitude before attempting to become a medical student. Schools don't reject students "for no reason at all".

 

[costales]

Is there a DO program outside the U.S.?

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Because Health Canada is putting restrictions on the number of Statements of need for Canadians in the US in ALL specialties starting next year, so only ~300 Canadians can do a FM residency in the US, compared to an unlimited number now....
So for MDs its fine, apply to Canada instead. But now you will have thousands of Canadians in the US and Carib, Ireland, etc. ALL applying for 300 FM SONs. and the SoNs are purely based on number available-doesn't matter if you're DO or IMG from the caribean. First come first serve

Also, a J1 Visa, which is most common, does require a 2 year return....

Ahh so I read more into the visa situation. There are ways around the 2 year return.


Ways to get around that include working in a federally or state designated underserved area for 3 years, or working in a government institution (such as the VA hospital) for 3 years.


Or you can get a H1B visa. So you can do a US residency and get a visa and return to cananada. I suggested reading that website I posted has a lot of good information.





Bottom line going to an osteopathic school as a Canadian is a good idea! Just make sure you are aware of the steps and processes you're going to have to take to return to Canada. Do your homework!!!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/alt_formats/pdf/hhr-rhs/postgrad-postdoc/cat_b-list-liste-eng.pdf

The post you have quoted is outdated.
2 years ago, even this year, DO was a reasonable path to get back to Canada. Now it's risky to assume you'l even find a residency in the states.
Its going to be risky starting now, just look at those numbers of SoNs compared to the thousands of Canadians hoping for US residency.
And US residencies, if you read that doc, are not going to transfer so easy

Um sorry but no it really isn't. Pretty much all graduates from DO schools find a residency position in the states... Once you are in a DO school in the states residencies don't look at you like a foreigner...

 

[ConfusedChemist]

Um sorry but no it really isn't. Pretty much all graduates from DO schools find a residency position in the states... Once you are in a DO school in the states residencies don't look at you like a foreigner...

Ok so you are not understanding the siduation.
It's NOT about getting a residency. Once you get a residency, starting NEXT YEAR you must get one of a NEWLY RESTRICTED number of statements of need from health Canada.

This occurs AFTER finding a residncy.
Until this year, it was UNLIMITED SoNs for Canadians
Nest year, less than 300 for FM, and much much less for others

So only ~1000 Canadians will get the SoN in 2016, while there are THOUSANDS looking to get the SoN

No SoN means NO visa approval

But you guys clearly haven't done your research since you think I'm just talking about getting a residency and don't appear to know what an SoN is.....so I'll leave it at that


And btw...they do still care you're a forgierner, because Visas actually cost the hospital a lot more money, if you want an HB1 especially

 

[ConfusedChemist]

Ahh so I read more into the visa situation. There are ways around the 2 year return.


Ways to get around that include working in a federally or state designated underserved area for 3 years, or working in a government institution (such as the VA hospital) for 3 years.


Or you can get a H1B visa. So you can do a US residency and get a visa and return to cananada. I suggested reading that website I posted has a lot of good information.





Bottom line going to an osteopathic school as a Canadian is a good idea! Just make sure you are aware of the steps and processes you're going to have to take to return to Canada. Do your homework!!!

See my other post below
You are clearly the one who hasn't done your 'homework' since you don't even know what Statement of Needs are, despite that you'll find yourself needing one in a few years


Also.....I have read those things in fact I have read more. Enough to know that HB1s are very difficult to get because they cost the hospital money, so they need to really want you.....

 

[DanniD]

Hello everyone.

This is the first time I'm posting a question here on studentdoctor.net, so I'm hoping I'm doing it right!
And I would really appreciate your responses.

I am a Canadian citizen and since the Canadian medical schools are usually not fair in accepting students, I am thinking about the US medical schools (I don't have a problem with it being really difficult,but I can't stand working hard only to be rejected because of no reason at all!!).

Now my question is,if I want to come back after graduation and live in Canada,which one would be the wiser choice? Going to a US medical school as an international student and then after you're done there trying to come back to Canada and get permission to work here, OR, going to an osteopathic school in Canada and then specialize in a medical field after?

Thank you all so much.

Canada has no osteopathic medical school... and so that's like saying.. "going to a physiotherapy program in Canada and then specialize in a medical field"
I guess you have no idea what you're talking about, you should first educate yourself on what it really means to become a medical doctor

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

See my other post below
You are clearly the one who hasn't done your 'homework' since you don't even know what Statement of Needs are, despite that you'll find yourself needing one in a few years


Also.....I have read those things in fact I have read more. Enough to know that HB1s are very difficult to get because they cost the hospital money, so they need to really want you.....

I still don't know where you are getting the statement of need limitation from. I didn't read it anywhere in the link you posted (edit: I found where in that document limited SoNs are) and the whole J1 visa thing there are workarounds (edit: when I mentioned workarounds I was talking about the 2 year return not workarounds to getting the J1 without a SoN).

 

[Mad Jack]

I still don't where you are getting the statement of need limitation from. I didn't read it anywhere in the link you posted and the whole J1 visa thing there are workarounds.

For you to attend a US residency program and work in the US as a resident, you have to have a statement of need unless you are already a US dual citizen or a green card holder. There is no workaround. It's a a requirement of the ESVP to get a J1 as a Canadian citizen.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/hhr-rhs/postgrad-postdoc/index-eng.php

Um sorry but no it really isn't. Pretty much all graduates from DO schools find a residency position in the states... Once you are in a DO school in the states residencies don't look at you like a foreigner...

You cannot get a working visa to do that residency without a statement of need. You can match into rads, but if Canada doesn't sign your papers, you don't get the visa. It's a working agreement we've had with Canada for many, many decades and there is no way around it aside from having a green card or US citizenship.

 

[petyr_baelish]

I still don't where you are getting the statement of need limitation from. I didn't read it anywhere in the link you posted and the whole J1 visa thing there are workarounds.

I am on my phone so I can't cite documents as sources but here is a thread with multiple Canadians sharing experiences with limits on SoNs -
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...re-j1-visa-and-the-statement-of-need.1092155/

 

[petyr_baelish]

A relevant quote from the aformentioned thread -

The system is a complete disaster. I'll be facing this situation head on as a Canadian at a USMD matching in 2016.

I am so f***ing scared. I'm not even worried about matching as I'm a strong candidate. But the fact that they pulled unlimited endorsement for my chosen specialty (EM), now only sponsor 4 year programs (WTF?!), and it's too late for me to change makes things a living nightmare! They JUST released this list a couple days ago. I applied for and accepted away rotations in EM back in April. That's when the decision for your specialty is made at the latest, NOT in mid-JULY of 4th year!!! I can't change my specialty now! ERAS opens September 15! And even if I were to change, what would I switch to? They pulled unlimited endorsement for family medicine even!!

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

For you to attend a US residency program and work in the US as a resident, you have to have a statement of need unless you are already a US dual citizen or a green card holder. There is no workaround. It's a a requirement of the ESVP to get a J1 as a Canadian citizen.
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hcs-sss/hhr-rhs/postgrad-postdoc/index-eng.php

You cannot get a working visa to do that residency without a statement of need. You can match into rads, but if Canada doesn't sign your papers, you don't get the visa. It's a working agreement we've had with Canada for many, many decades and there is no way around it aside from having a green card or US citizenship.

The simplest workaround is simply going to a hospital that is willing to offer you a H1B visa. I'm not saying you don't need a SON I just haven't read anything that says there is a quota of 300 people (edit: I found where the quota for 2016 is). It seems that if you apply VERY early you can get your J1 visa (edit: you must ensure your specialty is in need) and there are workarounds to the 2 year problem (like working for the VA) like I mentioned.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Ah I looked over the document again and see where the quota is. This isn't just a problem for DOs but also for MDs. It appears that if your from Canada and at a US school you should try and get a US citizenship first which would solve all these issues.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

It's really hard to get into Canadian schools, we don't have an 'osteophathic' equivalent that's easier to get into. It can be easier to get into US MD schools than a lot of Canadian Schools
However, DO from the US is considered an IMG in Canada......so your chances of ever working in Canada are er slim if you go DO.You would need to get a US residency, plus a Visa, and likely need to return to Canada fr a couple years in the middle of residency due o visa reuirements

You can take this however you want, but I am pretty sure last time I checked the D.O. acceptance rate was below the M.D. acceptance rate measured in percentage of applicants accepted. Now, that may not mean it is harder or easier, but it definitely proves that it is in no way an "easier" route for gaining admitance into medical school.

 

[ConfusedChemist]

You can take this however you want, but I am pretty sure last time I checked the D.O. acceptance rate was below the M.D. acceptance rate measured in percentage of applicants accepted. Now, that may not mean it is harder or easier, but it definitely proves that it is in no way an "easier" route for gaining admitance into medical school.

lol what? thats because people with low stats apply....

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

lol what? thats because people with low stats apply....

Err its slightly easier to get into. My schools average MCAT is about 2pts lower then the neighboring MD school. Not a huge difference.

FSU, Morehouse, mercer have similar numbers ponce is lower

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

For those reading this that are wondering what has been discussed let me summarize:

For Canadians looking to attend a US school (MD or DO) and do a US residency they must check with their province and get a certificate of need that the specialty they are training for is needed in that province so they can get a J1 visa to work in the USA. These visas are for two years so you must also do something like work for the VA to extend it. These SoNs have apparently gotten harder to get so you might run into an issue there regarding your specialty. Alternatively you can get an H1B visa but these cost money to your residency program and they might be reluctant to give that to you. If you have a green card none of this is an issue so if your a Canadian going to a US school being a dual citizen is in your best interest.

Alternatively you can do residency in Canada. US MDs doing residency in Canada are not considered IMGs whereas DOs are considered IMGs in some provinces but not all. Matching in Canada is more difficult.


Overall if your Canadian best to go to school in Canada. If not get a green card and go to US. If you don't have a green card and are in the US you might have to settle for a specialty that Canada deems to be in need.

This is a fairly clever way to pick docs specialties if you ask me! (Or lose your docs to other countries)

@ConfusedChemist @Mad Jack are we in agreement now?

 

[Zahra.sh]

After reading your last message I understood the concept.
Thanks.

 

[Zahra.sh]

OP you should fix your attitude before attempting to become a medical student. Schools don't reject students "for no reason at all".

Yeah I guess you could be right on this one!!

 

[Zahra.sh]

Canada has no osteopathic medical school... and so that's like saying.. "going to a physiotherapy program in Canada and then specialize in a medical field"
I guess you have no idea what you're talking about, you should first educate yourself on what it really means to become a medical doctor

I posted a question here because "I don't know things"! There's is nothing wrong with not knowing some things and asking questions. I still have a long way to apply to a medical school that's why I don't have much information. Once I get closer to that, I will collect more knowledge about the whole situation.

 

[Zahra.sh]

@ConfusedChemist
What do you say is the absolute best option if you're a Canadian and want to live in Canada and want to be a doctor,but don't get accepted to a Canadian medical school?!

 

[futuremdforme]

Overall if your Canadian best to go to school in Canada. If not get a green card and go to US. If you don't have a green card and are in the US you might have to settle for a specialty that Canada deems to be in need.

You can't just get a green card because you want one... You need to be sponsored by your work or by a relative, and as a student, your only chance would be via relative/marriage.

 

[ConfusedChemist]

@ConfusedChemist
What do you say is the absolute best option if you're a Canadian and want to live in Canada and want to be a doctor,but don't get accepted to a Canadian medical school?!

Low-tier US MD
At this point in time, things are changing VERY rapidly, and doing anything that's not fully accepted in Canada (DO or IMG) is a huge risk of 300K
If you can't get, do a 2 year second-undergrad to fix your GPA. Re-write the MCAT. And if you still can't get in, well I'd personally take that as time to find a new career.
Medicine is great, but risking 300K with even a 50% chance of residency is not worth it, in my opinion

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

You can't just get a green card because you want one... You need to be sponsored by your work or by a relative, and as a student, your only chance would be via relative/marriage.

Didn't mean to imply getting a green card is easy! However, it does solve alot of issues and if that is an option available to you it solves this issue with statement of need.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Low-tier US MD
At this point in time, things are changing VERY rapidly, and doing anything that's not fully accepted in Canada (DO or IMG) is a huge risk of 300K
If you can't get, do a 2 year second-undergrad to fix your GPA. Re-write the MCAT. And if you still can't get in, well I'd personally take that as time to find a new career.
Medicine is great, but risking 300K with even a 50% chance of residency is not worth it, in my opinion

Heck I agree US MD would be a better option but they are gonna face the same issues with SoN as DOs will. This isn't a discrimatory thing against DOs.

My 2 cents for Canadians who can't get admission into Canadian schools:
The ideal course of action is getting a green card and going US MD or DO. If a green card can't be obtained US MD would be better since you would have a better shot back home at Canada but DO isn't considered IMG in all provinces so I wouldn't quite put it off the table especially if you are from one of the provinces that a DO isn't an IMG. A DO can also fairly easily get a residency in the US so if someone is open to their specialty they might be able to get a SoN for something else and be able to do that residency in the US. I would gather being an IMG must be even worse for Canadians then Americans but a DO clearly has has a leg up and isn't the same coin flip that a carribean school is. (Due to better access to US residencies if a SoN can be obtained, non img status in some provinces, and low attrition rates) I still think DO schools are a viable option for Canadians albeit there is risk.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

lol what? thats because people with low stats apply....

Yea if you think that a (+/-) 2 MCAT and (+/-)0.4 GPA is a huge difference? I don't think stats really matter as far as competitiveness and even if they did your statement means absolutely nothing since it would only strengthen my argument...

 

[ChrisMack390]

No knock on DOs at all, but it is a bit obtuse to suggest that it is more difficult to gain acceptance to DO school than to MD school.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

No knock on DOs at all, but it is a bit obtuse to suggest that it is more difficult to gain acceptance to DO school than to MD school.

Honestly people from DO schools just don't like it when people try and make it seem easy to get accepted here. It isn't. People try and make DOs out to be MD rejects. Are people from Brown Med Harvard rejects? Horrible way to look at things. With each osteopathic school having thousands of applications they are all very difficult to get into.

 

[ChrisMack390]

"Easier" =/= "Easy"

 

[ConfusedChemist]

No knock on DOs at all, but it is a bit obtuse to suggest that it is more difficult to gain acceptance to DO school than to MD school.

Thank you. I gave up on this thread when I saw that post lol

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Thank you. I gave up on this thread when I saw that post lol

Err I don't think giving up on this thread is wise you had some pretty valuable insite and taught me a few things. While I don't exactly agree with your conclusion I didn't realize that these visa issues with SoNs were going on (I clearly stated I wasn't sure about this and askef for further explanation. I edited some things I posted for clarity as it may be confusing since I didn't realize SoNs were limited and had yet to find proof of limiation as I was asking for you to provide earlier which you did)! We get touchy though when people try and make it seem DO schools are easy to get into. Easier? Slightly. Easy? No way!

You stating DOs are IMGs in canada though is only half true! Also the whole two year J1 thing there are workarounds.

BTW I wasn't saying you should do your homework (for the most part you have) I was saying applicants should. I still think DO is a viable option for Canadians.

 

[trev5150]

Err I don't think giving up on this thread is wise

Giving up on any thread is wise. It's the Internet. Having a sense of accomplishment after a well-fought forum campaign is not an indicator of anything good.

 

[Zahra.sh]

Low-tier US MD
At this point in time, things are changing VERY rapidly, and doing anything that's not fully accepted in Canada (DO or IMG) is a huge risk of 300K
If you can't get, do a 2 year second-undergrad to fix your GPA. Re-write the MCAT. And if you still can't get in, well I'd personally take that as time to find a new career.
Medicine is great, but risking 300K with even a 50% chance of residency is not worth it, in my opinion

I completely agree.
Thank you for the advice.

 

[Jinxapotato]

Hey there OP, I am a Canadian in DO school. I want to let you know that if you really want medicine, you will get it sooner or later if you work hard for it. DO NOT just give up after 1 failed attempt (hence I respectfully disagree with the advice of changing career after trying only the Canadian/US MD routes)
Here's what I think: you should try Canadian MD (yes I know it's freaking hard) and US MD (slightly easier as you have a lot more school to apply to) and US DO (easiest out of the 3) at the same time. Once you get some interviews or hopefully, acceptances, THEN decide what to do next. The application process for all 3 is very similar so you won't have to work from scratch every time.
Personally, I did a US SMP after my failed application to McGill after my undergrad ( I only applied to 1 school lol), and applied to 17 MD schools and 3 DO schools after my master. I got 2MD interviews that waitlisted me and 1DO interview that gave me the offer the day after.
Going DO will put you off limit for things like derm/plastic surgery/ophtho (since we can only do ACGME residencies), but if you are OK with things like FM/EM/IM then it will work out. In addition, getting back to Canada for residency after your DO will be a challenge, so you have to be prepared to stay in US to do your residency. Whether you go home or not AFTER your residency is completely up to you, just remember that you need to match the Canadian "training time" for your specialty. Overall it's going to be more chore than the MD route, but I think if that's what gives me the chance of entering the career I like, it's worth it.

EDIT: and no, don't do Caribbean.

 

[Seth Joo]

There are no Osteopathic Medical schools in Canada, Osteopathic medical schools are exclusively within the United States.

 

[mathnerd88]

Yea if you think that a (+/-) 2 MCAT and (+/-)0.4 GPA is a huge difference? I don't think stats really matter as far as competitiveness and even if they did your statement means absolutely nothing since it would only strengthen my argument...

It is a huge difference...each point on the MCAT is approximately 5%-6% better than the population who took the MCAT in the ranges between 25-32. 0.4 GPA is MASSIVE difference. That's half a letter grade. Also, AACOMAS allows letter grade replacement and AMCAS doesn't. It is significantly easier to apply to DO schools than MD. Sorry to say this but it is true, even coming from a DO only applicant. Imagine if letter grade replacement was removed and see what happens to the average GPA then.

But I would consider top DO schools almost on the same par as low tier MD schools.

 

[torontopharm]

Because Health Canada is putting restrictions on the number of Statements of need for Canadians in the US in ALL specialties starting next year, so only ~300 Canadians can do a FM residency in the US, compared to an unlimited number now....
So for MDs its fine, apply to Canada instead. But now you will have thousands of Canadians in the US and Carib, Ireland, etc. ALL applying for 300 FM SONs. and the SoNs are purely based on number available-doesn't matter if you're DO or IMG from the caribean. First come first serve

Also, a J1 Visa, which is most common, does require a 2 year return....

Isn't ~300 for FM enough though?
NRMP data from 2013 shows 412 Canadians in total applying that year (all specialties), with 260 of them matching. I recall having this discussion with @Mad Jack
I'm trying to understand this better. I know thousands of Canadians are studying abroad, but it doesn't seem like many of them make it to NRMP. I'm probably missing something big.

 

[torontopharm]

DOs aren't IMG in all provinces. Canada will accept US residency also. Not sure why that would cause a visa issue

Just to give some additional info...
DO's are only considered CMG's in BC and Quebec. Out of which, i think Quebec has some french test requirement, leaving BC as the only option for most Canadians planning to match via CaRMS. For whatever reason, DO's have been losing the CMG status over the years. The best route, as it's been mentioned, is to do an ACGME residency in the states and come back to Canada.

 

[I-said-doctor]

Just to give some additional info...
DO's are only considered CMG's in BC and Quebec. Out of which, i think Quebec has some french test requirement, leaving BC as the only option for most Canadians planning to match via CaRMS. For whatever reason, DO's have been losing the CMG status over the years. The best route, as it's been mentioned, is to do an ACGME residency in the states and come back to Canada.

I think Ontario also considers them CMG's... unless the laws/rules were changed recently??

 

[torontopharm]

I think Ontario also considers them CMG's... unless the laws/rules were changed recently??

Changed unfortunately.
From 2016 onwards, Ontario considers them IMGs.

 

[Jinxapotato]

Just to give some additional info...
DO's are only considered CMG's in BC and Quebec. Out of which, i think Quebec has some french test requirement, leaving BC as the only option for most Canadians planning to match via CaRMS. For whatever reason, DO's have been losing the CMG status over the years. The best route, as it's been mentioned, is to do an ACGME residency in the states and come back to Canada.

Yes that is correct, although Quebec only considers you if you are Quebec resident (or something of sort...Basically if you are not Quebec resident, chances are slim)