Osteopathic surgeons having problems obtaining hospital privileges?

[Dr.Millisevert]

Just curious..

Has anyone ever heard of a DO who after completing an Osteopathic accredited surgical residency and/or subspecialty Fellowship has been denied hospital privileges for any procedures because their training was not ACGME accredited and/or they were not board certified by an allopathic board?

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[Dr JPH]

Just curious..

Has anyone ever heard of a DO who after completing an Osteopathic accredited surgical residency and/or subspecialty Fellowship has been denied hospital privileges for any procedures because their training was not ACGME accredited and/or they were not board certified by an allopathic board?

No

 

[medhacker]

Just curious..

Has anyone ever heard of a DO who after completing an Osteopathic accredited surgical residency and/or subspecialty Fellowship has been denied hospital privileges for any procedures because their training was not ACGME accredited and/or they were not board certified by an allopathic board?

There were a few cases a number of years ago, the AOA attorneys acted upon it [yes AOA...] and it's never been heard of again. See? not all attorneys are bad after all...

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

There were a few cases a number of years ago, the AOA attorneys acted upon it [yes AOA...] and it's never been heard of again. See? not all attorneys are bad after all...

I ask because we are discussing the topic of oral and maxillofacial surgery, which is a specialty of dentistry (ie. there is no ACGME accreditation for its training programs).

CODA -> (which is the dental equivalent of ACGME) has approved subspecialty fellowship programs in H/N oncology/microvascular, Craniofacial surgery, and H/N Cosmetic surgery for oral and maxillofacial surgeons. These are CODA accredited not ACGME accredited.

However they identical in length and quality and require the same things for completion and certification.

I haven't heard of many OMS guys who are fellowship trained having much trouble with cosmetics or oncology, however.. I have heard that some of the craniofacial fellowship trained surgeons with oms background (many of which even have both dental and medical degrees) on some occasions have been told they are not able to get hospital privs either that or that the plastics guys bully them out even though they are both trained in the same types of fellowships.

Most craniofacial fellowships are 50% orthognathic work anyways which as maxfacs graduate, one would be much more qualified to do than a PRS graduate. So many view OMFS + craniofacial to almost be more qualified for these procedures than Plastics + craniofacial because we log more relevant cases. Most plastics programs are only 2-3 years in length and when you cut out all of the burns, boobs, and hand recon work they do.. they don't log as many relevant H/N cases as an OMFS would.

Anyways.. we OMS guys were hoping maybe to learn a thing or two from you guys on how to help establish our specialty and boards as equivalent to ACGME so we don't have to put up with this anymore. Thanks for your help.

 

[Taus]

hmm....from what I know... a lot of these issues were resolved in the late 70's-early 80's....so I doubt the avg person on here would be of much direct help. Maybe try contacting some of the Osteopathic specialty boards directly?

 

[medhacker]

I ask because we are discussing the topic of oral and maxillofacial surgery, which is a specialty of dentistry (ie. there is no ACGME accreditation for its training programs).

CODA -> (which is the dental equivalent of ACGME) has approved subspecialty fellowship programs in H/N oncology/microvascular, Craniofacial surgery, and H/N Cosmetic surgery for oral and maxillofacial surgeons. These are CODA accredited not ACGME accredited.

However they identical in length and quality and require the same things for completion and certification.

I haven't heard of many OMS guys who are fellowship trained having much trouble with cosmetics or oncology, however.. I have heard that some of the craniofacial fellowship trained surgeons with oms background (many of which even have both dental and medical degrees) on some occasions have been told they are not able to get hospital privs either that or that the plastics guys bully them out even though they are both trained in the same types of fellowships.

Most craniofacial fellowships are 50% orthognathic work anyways which as maxfacs graduate, one would be much more qualified to do than a PRS graduate. So many view OMFS + craniofacial to almost be more qualified for these procedures than Plastics + craniofacial because we log more relevant cases. Most plastics programs are only 2-3 years in length and when you cut out all of the burns, boobs, and hand recon work they do.. they don't log as many relevant H/N cases as an OMFS would.

Anyways.. we OMS guys were hoping maybe to learn a thing or two from you guys on how to help establish our specialty and boards as equivalent to ACGME so we don't have to put up with this anymore. Thanks for your help.

Millisevert

Do your students ever rotate at any of these hospitals, or can your graduates do any type of ACGME fellowship/residency?

There were some recent cases [2005] where discrimination lawsuits were won to gain hospital privileges for DOs.

You may have a case depending on the questions I asked you above. Let me know how that works on your side of town.

 

[Dr.Millisevert]

Millisevert

Do your students ever rotate at any of these hospitals, or can your graduates do any type of ACGME fellowship/residency?

There were some recent cases [2005] where discrimination lawsuits were won to gain hospital privileges for DOs.

You may have a case depending on the questions I asked you above. Let me know how that works on your side of town.

Well.. I'm just a trainee, not head of a program. But I'll try to answer your questions.

I think at the hospitals where the fellowship was completed there aren't any problems. Its after the fellow leaves then moves and wants to start up a craniofacial unit elsewhere where I think many of them run into problems.

Some OMS guys have in the past been admitted to ACGME accredited H/N and craniofacial fellowships.. sometimes usually when the spots went unfilled for example. But since we have our own high quality fellowships (CODA accredited) that meet the current demand, most oms guys only apply for our own.

 

[Pansit]

Well.. I'm just a trainee, not head of a program. But I'll try to answer your questions.

I think at the hospitals where the fellowship was completed there aren't any problems. Its after the fellow leaves then moves and wants to start up a craniofacial unit elsewhere where I think many of them run into problems.

Some OMS guys have in the past been admitted to ACGME accredited H/N and craniofacial fellowships.. sometimes usually when the spots went unfilled for example. But since we have our own high quality fellowships (CODA accredited) that meet the current demand, most oms guys only apply for our own.

haha...whenever you say oms I think osteopathic medical student......thanx AOA, add that to the growing list of confusing osteopathic abbreviated terms

 

[PlAnEjaNe]

Dr.Millisevert I like your grill...

-PlAnEjaNe

 

[medhacker]

Well.. I'm just a trainee, not head of a program. But I'll try to answer your questions.

I think at the hospitals where the fellowship was completed there aren't any problems. Its after the fellow leaves then moves and wants to start up a craniofacial unit elsewhere where I think many of them run into problems.

Some OMS guys have in the past been admitted to ACGME accredited H/N and craniofacial fellowships.. sometimes usually when the spots went unfilled for example. But since we have our own high quality fellowships (CODA accredited) that meet the current demand, most oms guys only apply for our own.

It sounds very similar to the cases the AOA had to deal with. You may very well have a case. Contact the legal department of your national dental association they will be the best to judge the viability of your case. Best wishes! let me know how it goes...

 

[iliacus]

I know of a situation here in florida where a proctologist was denied hospital privelages. I don't think it had anything with being a DO, it was that he didn't do a surgery residency and wanted to perform surgical procedures. The surgery department turned him down. Although I think they would have done the same with any doctor MD or DO who wanted to do the same procedure without the proper training. What's the deal with "proctologists" anyways?

 

[TrollKCN]

What's the deal with "proctologists" anyways?

someone's got to do it

 

[Jack Daniel]

Maybe there is a difference in training between DO/MD.

The DO program is a proctology residency and the MD programs are colon and rectal surgery residencies. Anyone know if the scope of training and length of both programs match up?

 

[It'sElectric]

someone's got to do it

ASSMAN.

 

[toothless rufus]

Maybe there is a difference in training between DO/MD.

The DO program is a proctology residency and the MD programs are colon and rectal surgery residencies. Anyone know if the scope of training and length of both programs match up?

Awww, man! Can you apply OMM to that too!!!

 

[Mista Suprane]

the word proctologist, unfortunately, means two things. it was a term used for colorectal surgeons in the past, however, that use has pretty much stopped. they are simply referred to now as colorectal surgeons, and have completed a five year surgical residency, and then a one year fellowship in colorectal surgery. they are boarded by the american board of colon and rectal surgery.

currently, the word proctology should only mean someone that has completed a residency in proctology, which is only osteopathic. the requirements to be boarded by the american osteopathic board of proctology are completing the osteopathic internship, and a two year residency in proctology. they do not do general surgery, and focus on hemorrhoids, anal fissures, fistulas, and the like.

so yeah, there is a difference. somebody correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[Dr JPH]

the word proctologist, unfortunately, means two things. it was a term used for colorectal surgeons in the past, however, that use has pretty much stopped. they are simply referred to now as colorectal surgeons, and have completed a five year surgical residency, and then a one year fellowship in colorectal surgery. they are boarded by the american board of colon and rectal surgery.

currently, the word proctology should only mean someone that has completed a residency in proctology, which is only osteopathic. the requirements to be boarded by the american osteopathic board of proctology are completing the osteopathic internship, and a two year residency in proctology. they do not do general surgery, and focus on hemorrhoids, anal fissures, fistulas, and the like.

so yeah, there is a difference. somebody correct me if i'm wrong.

Distinct difference between proctologists and colorectal surgeons.

The American Board of Proctologists changed its name to American Board of Colon and Rectal Surgery some time in the 1960s.

As it stands today there are no allopathic sponsored proctology residencies, and there is only one osteopathic proctology residency.

Personally I think its a good idea to still train people in office based proctological care...not every CR surgeons wants to deal with the small cases...not when there are more exciting procedures to do. Of course, some will argue that these smaller office based procedures have a higher financial yield for the amount of work they do.