Osteopathic Surgical Residency

becool5

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    Hello all, I am confused about the residency requirements for DO grads. I have tried researching this on the internet and on here but have no luck.....

    There is a nice list of surgery programs on http://www.facs.org/residencysearch/search/search.html for MD grads. Is there a simliar list/website for DO grads? If a DO grad wants to be surgeon, are there specific osteopathic surgery programs? Or do most students try to get a spot in one of the programs listed on facs.org? If so how do they go about it and what are the requirment? It looks as though a DO grad needs to have their surgical residency approved by the American College of Osteopathic Surgeons? How do they go about doing that? Thanks!
     

    Plinko

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      becool5 said:
      Hello all, I am confused about the residency requirements for DO grads. I have tried researching this on the internet and on here but have no luck.....

      There is a nice list of surgery programs on http://www.facs.org/residencysearch/search/search.html for MD grads. Is there a simliar list/website for DO grads? If a DO grad wants to be surgeon, are there specific osteopathic surgery programs? Or do most students try to get a spot in one of the programs listed on facs.org? If so how do they go about it and what are the requirment? It looks as though a DO grad needs to have their surgical residency approved by the American College of Osteopathic Surgeons? How do they go about doing that? Thanks!

      Here's the link you are looking for: https://www.facos.org/scriptcontent/educationsites.cfm

      DO students can apply for surgery programs accredited by the AOA (DO) and the ACGME (MD). In reality though the top notch MD programs are often closed off to DO students unless you have a standout application (e.g. extremely high USMLE score). Most DO students only take the COMLEX (the DO version of the USMLE) and apply to only the programs listed in the link above. The lower tier MD programs will take the COMLEX in lieu of the USMLE but may frown upon it. The higher tier MD programs most likely will not take the COMLEX. Some DO students land at top tier MD programs because they do extremely well on the USMLE, but they are the extreme minority. Many DO students don't really care about the USMLE because it is not the test their medical school prepares them for, so they don't bother with it. This essentially channels them toward DO surgery programs. In other specialties it is an entierly different scenario however. The AOA accredits surgical specialties for DOs. It is licensed by the governments at the state, federal, and military levels to do so in all fifty states. From a legal standpoint, there is no difference between the MD and DO programs. In the real world however there may be a difference when it comes to what practice group you get a job offer from, what hospital grants you admitting priviledges, etc.

      Hope this helps.
       

      jawicobike

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        Plinko said:
        Here's the link you are looking for: https://www.facos.org/scriptcontent/educationsites.cfm

        DO students can apply for surgery programs accredited by the AOA (DO) and the ACGME (MD). In reality though the top notch MD programs are often closed off to DO students unless you have a standout application (e.g. extremely high USMLE score). Most DO students only take the COMLEX (the DO version of the USMLE) and apply to only the programs listed in the link above. The lower tier MD programs will take the COMLEX in lieu of the USMLE but may frown upon it. The higher tier MD programs most likely will not take the COMLEX. Some DO students land at top tier MD programs because they do extremely well on the USMLE, but they are the extreme minority. Many DO students don't really care about the USMLE because it is not the test their medical school prepares them for, so they don't bother with it. This essentially channels them toward DO surgery programs. In other specialties it is an entierly different scenario however. The AOA accredits surgical specialties for DOs. It is licensed by the governments at the state, federal, and military levels to do so in all fifty states. From a legal standpoint, there is no difference between the MD and DO programs. In the real world however there may be a difference when it comes to what practice group you get a job offer from, what hospital grants you admitting priviledges, etc.

        Hope this helps.

        How do I find out rankings or tiers for specific programs?
         
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        Plinko

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          jawicobike said:
          How do I find out rankings or tiers for specific programs?

          To my knowledge, I do not believe they exist, for DO or MD programs. There may be some info in the US News/World Report issue that deals with the best hospitals in the country; it lists each hospital by specialty. But I have never heard anyone give that issue any merit. Mostly its all word of mouth.
           

          LovelyRita

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            jawicobike said:
            How do I find out rankings or tiers for specific programs?

            You could compare community vs academic/university-based programs. I'm not sure how many DO residents there are in MD academic/univ programs, but I've noticed some representation within the MD community hospital circuit.

            And as far as DO-academic/university-based programs, I think of Mercy in Des Moines. Most others are community.

            When I say academic/university, I mean like Mass General, Case Western, UTSW, etc etc.

            And finally, an extremely successful MD vascular surgeon (one of my mentors) told me you can learn surgery at any community program. And this must be true b/c all accredited programs have requirements for training their residents that must be met.

            But if you want to do research and, for example, figure out the newest way to take out a gallbladder, go academic.
             

            jawicobike

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              DrMaryC said:
              You could compare community vs academic/university-based programs. I'm not sure how many DO residents there are in MD academic/univ programs, but I've noticed some representation within the MD community hospital circuit.

              And as far as DO-academic/university-based programs, I think of Mercy in Des Moines. Most others are community.

              When I say academic/university, I mean like Mass General, Case Western, UTSW, etc etc.

              And finally, an extremely successful MD vascular surgeon (one of my mentors) told me you can learn surgery at any community program. And this must be true b/c all accredited programs have requirements for training their residents that must be met.

              But if you want to do research and, for example, figure out the newest way to take out a gallbladder, go academic.

              If the desire is to practice general surgery and not pursue a fellowsip following the 5 years is it possible that it may be beneficial to choose a community program over a university program (the same way many feel that a community FP program is better than a university FP program because you don't have to compete with other speciality residents for procedures)?
               

              LovelyRita

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                jawicobike said:
                If the desire is to practice general surgery and not pursue a fellowsip following the 5 years is it possible that it may be beneficial to choose a community program over a university program (the same way many feel that a community FP program is better than a university FP program because you don't have to compete with other speciality residents for procedures)?

                No. If you go community you most certainly can do a fellowship.
                 

                jawicobike

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                  DrMaryC said:
                  No. If you go community you most certainly can do a fellowship.

                  I'm not saying you can't do a fellowship after a community program I'm asking if a community program might actually be better than a university program for someone who doesn't want to do a fellowship.
                   

                  LovelyRita

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                    jawicobike said:
                    I'm not saying you can't do a fellowship after a community program I'm asking if a community program might actually be better than a university program for someone who doesn't want to do a fellowship.

                    Well, you could look at it this way. A univ program may cover more subspecialty areas during your GS residency, and when you are done, you may be more well rounded to be a GS.
                     
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