Osteopathy vs. Allopathy !! NO DIFFERENCE ???!!!

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lekar

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Hi everybody,
I have 3 questions:
1- Is there any difference between graduates of osteopathy vs. graduates of allopathy schools in terms of getting a good residency program ? Are all of the programs available for osteopathy graduates like for allopathy schools graduates ?
2- Is there any difference between graduates of osteopathy vs. graduates of allopathy schools in terms of getting a good job in hospitals or elsewhere after their residencies ?
3- Are there any difference in terms of salaries during the residency program and after the residency, between the osteopathy graduates and allopathy graduates ?
I would appreciate your responses if you have real information regarding these matters.
Thanks
 
1. No, Yes
2. No
3. No

Apply to D.O. school, you'll be fine. There aren't any real differences between the two if you want to practice medicine. If you're looking to do tons of research, that's a different story. Other than that, though, nowadays they're pretty much the same, except that DO's are trained to do OMT on top of everything else.
 
I beg to differ.

Of course I mean no disrespect to the DO students who've just posted, but the DO does limit your options, at least in the real world. Yes, you can get into any specialty, but the truth is that the vast majority of specialists, including the most competitive ones, are MDs.

Some programs (some in ortho I believe) won't accept DO applicants.

DO is a fine option if you are planning on primary care, family practice, or IM. If you're thinking about academics and a DO, think twice, perhaps thrice. As I said before, it can be done, but your options are limited.

And before anyone decides to remind me that there are DOs in every specialty, e.g. Derm, Ortho, Neurosurg, CT surg, etc, etc...We all know that.
 
What ortho residencies? Also, not trying to be confrontational here, what do you base all this on??
 
I like to take a moment and inform lekar that he actually asked 4 questions. He said he had 3, but if you pay attention to the first question, you will see that it has two parts. Thus, its two questions in one. I don't know about any of you, but I consider a question with two questions inside of it, two questions, not one. So please lekar, be more accurate. You have 4 questions, none of which are answered by this post. Look for my next reply. Thanx.
 
Hi lekar, I have come back to answer your 4, not 3, questions. You see lekar, lot of people say there is no difference between MDs and DOs. I disagree. The difference is not in what they can and can't do, or in what they earn, or in their potential to be great. The real, true difference is that DOs are the minority, a very small minority, compared to MDs. This makes them less recognized and more susceptible to ignorance. But, even though they are underdogs, and they will be underdogs for a very long time, when patients look into their eyes, they see a chance for salvation from pain and suffering, just like they see when they look into the eyes of an MD. So, you will hear a lot of ignorant fools talk about DOs being limited, not being well trained, going to second hand schools, not measuring up to MDs. But you see, that is a very, very good thing. It is an awesome thing, for when the ignorant fools least expect it, and when it counts most, the DOs prove themselves over and over again in clinical rotations and residencies, on the front lines, with their patients. That is what counts. What your patients think of you. Not what some silver spoon-fed, daddy bought my acceptance, I am a premed who drives a benz, pot-smoking, girl-loving but none-getting, arrogant, uninformed, and closed minded fool thinks. So as NIKE says "JUST D.O. IT". Peace out.
 
Originally posted by goooooober
That is what counts. What your patients think of you. Not what some silver spoon-fed, daddy bought my acceptance, I am a premed who drives a benz, pot-smoking, girl-loving but none-getting, arrogant, uninformed, and closed minded fool thinks. So as NIKE says "JUST D.O. IT". Peace out.

:laugh: :laugh:
 
Originally posted by md_student10021
Yes, you can get into any specialty, but the truth is that the vast majority of specialists, including the most competitive ones, are MDs.

Ah, the same old arguments used over and over again by, of course, the pre-med/med student. Of course there are more MD's in specialties; there are more MD's period. MD's will always outnumber DO's in any specialty because there are about 125 MD schools to 20 DO schools.

Also, DO schools tend to attract more students interested in primary care, which means many of them will not want to specialize, hence smaller numbers specializing. However, as long as a DO student gets the same kind of board scores as an MD student, they will have no trouble getting into the specialty they want. Plus, DO students have two shots to get into competitive residencies, DO or MD. Granted there are less DO specialties slots than MD slots, but it's one extra opportunity more than MD students have.

Some programs (some in ortho I believe) won't accept DO applicants.

Their loss.

DO is a fine option if you are planning on primary care, family practice, or IM. If you're thinking about academics and a DO, think twice, perhaps thrice. As I said before, it can be done, but your options are limited.

I can pull stuff out of my ass, also. Doesn't make it any truer. DO is a fine option, period. You can bathe yourself in your elitism all you want. In the end, you may have to work with DO's or be taking orders from one, one day. Might as well learn to swallow your pride now.

And before anyone decides to remind me that there are DOs in every specialty, e.g. Derm, Ortho, Neurosurg, CT surg, etc, etc...We all know that.

Thanks for proving my point for me.

Lekar, like I said before, don't worry about the whole DO/MD thing. It has been said on here 1000 times over and will be said on here 1000 times in the future: in reality there are no differences between DO's and MD's except for the option of offering patients OMT if you decide to use it, which not all Ostepathic physicians do, and in the amount or research that is done at MD schools. If you're big on research, then you might want to consider MD or DO.

You'll hear plenty of nonsense by (to use gooooober's words) ignorant pre-med and med students who apparently believe they have someone to look down on, for some reason.

I've talked to plenty of DO's all of whom have told me there is no discrimination or blocked opportunities. Like I tell everyone who is unsure of the DO route, ask DO's themselves. Talk to them about your concerns, and I think you'll see that much of the nonsense you see on here, is just that.

Guess the flame war has officially begun.
 
lekar -

To give you an example, I work in a hospital that has DOs in every speciality. In addition, our ER medical director is a DO as well as our Chief of Medicine. Therefore, I would take comments from people like md_student for what they are worth, not much. First of all, he is ONLY a student! He has not worked as a doctor in the real world. If he has seen this ignorance and favoritism for MDs he has only seen it in an educational setting probably by none other than other students. My grandfather and father are both MDs, but I really wanted to go DO after doing tons of research on the two degrees. In the end, that is one of the only two things (besides OMT) that I have found to separate the two...the wording on their doctorate diplomas. The other being the way they are taught. After talking with many DOs and DO students I find that they are taught in a more compassionate and
patient orientated manner. This, I believe, stems from the mentors/teachers they learn from. If someone is truly dedicated to Osteopathy, then I feel that his/her students will definitely take away more about caring for the patient. This is because I believe Osteopathy is rooted in patient care and advocacy. IMHO, I have worked with both DOs and MDs and respect the majority of them because there are a lot of them who really have dedicated their lives to taking care of others. In the end, is this not why we want to be doctors anyway? I can not answer for everyone, but it is not the letters that make a doctor it is the person, and I wish all this DO/MD shyt would settle and we could all work together for a common cause...treating the sick and injured, helping those who have no one else, making people feel better, etc... These are the topics we all should be discussing don't you agree? Anyway, sorry for the long post but I needed to have a say in this whole DO/MD thing. Thanks for listening and have a good night!! 🙂
 
Some programs (some in ortho I believe) won't accept DO applicants.

Funny.... NYCOM matched into allopathic ortho this year.

Thanks for the info md_student10021. Now get back to your mirror.

😉 😀
 
Originally posted by Fenrezz
I've talked to plenty of DO's all of whom have told me there is no discrimination or blocked opportunities. Like I tell everyone who is unsure of the DO route, ask DO's themselves. Talk to them about your concerns, and I think you'll see that much of the nonsense you see on here, is just that.
Fenrezz is totally right as usual. I would just like to add to the above statement that if you are really brave, you should ask a few MD's, too. I believe you will find that there is much less disicrimination against Osteopathic Medicine than some people claim. I have been told by more than a few MD's that my decision to pursue admission to Osteopathic medical schools is a great idea. Many of them have told me that Osteopathy has many good medical schools. I don't even think that discrimination is common among Allopathy bound premeds, or Allopathy students. I talk all the time with other premeds at my university, and none of them are hell bent against Osteopathic Medicine, in fact, many of them are applying through both AAMCAS and AACOMAS.
 
I find it very amusing that some Ortho residencies don't take D.O.'s considering D.O. trained students are more qualified for the field of orthopedics than their m.d. counterparts. This isn't to say that an m.d. couldn't do the same job a D.O. could, it's just to say that OMM training gives you a more thorough understanding of the musculoskeletal structure of the human body, especially how it "INTERRELATES" a very important term in Osteopathic medicine that sometimes falls on deaf ears in the allopathic world.
Furthermore, D.O.'s are just more fun to hang out with. There are two medical schools down here, one D.O. the other m.d. and having spent time with people in both schools, i'd have to say that D.O.'s are more down to earth and just seem to get 'it' more. Yes there are tools in both schools, but the D.O. school would have an Ace Hardware's or local mom and pop store's amount of tools whereas the m.d. school is more like a Home Depot.. a warehouse of tools.
Is this a huge generalization????? YES! I admit it.... but is it any more of a generalization that D.O.'s are only suited to primary care or that they are not trained as well???? NO... THere may be one or two residencies that do not take D.O.'s .... but there are hundreds of residencies that don't take m.d.'s and we can apply to both. That's a pretty damn good deal.
 
You know, if where you went to 2 years of medical school is the only potential source of discrimination in the medical field, then fine. Unfortunately, such hypothetical/actual bias may be more than outweighed by other factors, e.g.:
- female gender (ortho or surg?)
- ethnic/racial origin
- age (too young or too old)
- personality differences
- undergraduate/graduate degree

Frankly, as is the case with most situations in life, DO's will probably be their own worst enemy. Check out the thread in the Osteopathic medicine forum entitled "Choosing DO with MD acceptance."

It appears to me that DOsouthpaw has some pretty defeatist opinions about OMM research. This kind of stuff worries me more than anything else.
 
Just a few comments from an average student.
Some programs (some in ortho I believe) won't accept DO applicants.

Here is the big difference that I see. From the point of conservative view, the MD is the most practical or at least the safest option. Your road is pre-paved. In some ways even blindly accepted and lauded. One never has to worry about Ones options when pursuing an MD because, yes, the degree is well established, widely known, and widely accepted in many fields of work.

That being said, I see many admirable aspects to the philosophy behind the DO degree. If one has the wear-with-all to fight his own battles, the DO option has much to offer. Lets all admit that the approach was founded by an MD who, early own, realized the idealogic shortcomings of medicine as it was, and often is, practiced. Today, medical schools are beginning to promote a more humanistic point of view in their training, but only after decades of complaint by their clients reguarding the MD.

I am inclined to believe that the shift in point of view came partly from fear of compitition with the growing DO population and the public familiarity with a practice that provided what they had been demanding from MDs for years.

Furthermore,
I have been told by more than a few MD's that my decision to pursue admission to Osteopathic medical schools is a great idea. Many of them have told me that Osteopathy has many good medical schools.
I have in fact been told, to my astonishment, by more than one MD that if he had it to do over he would have gone DO! The reason given is that they believed that DOs are better trained to handle problems of the muscular and skeletal systems, and as they said, at some point all doctors will have to deal with a client who has pain associated with these systems and their articulations. Why not have at your disposal as many options for treatment as possible?

Lastly, the issue of research. If one really wants to go that route as a DO, one can. Take a postdoctoral fellowship in the area of focus and get the training. It is not that hard to do, and I say this with four years of research under my belt. Enough said on that matter.

Most importantly, we must stop wasting time building reasons to dislike each other and focus on working to bridge the gaps between ourselves, future colleges and physicians.
 
Originally posted by DO2007(ER)
I can not answer for everyone, but it is not the letters that make a doctor it is the person, and I wish all this DO/MD shyt would settle and we could all work together for a common cause...treating the sick and injured, helping those who have no one else, making people feel better, etc... These are the topics we all should be discussing don't you agree?

:clap:
 
my ob/gyn (md) was very supportive of me applying to DO schools. she said that some of her colleages were DOs and they were the best doctors that she knew.
 
Yes I agree you should do as Fenrezz states and go directly to the source and ask DO's if there is any discrimination. So take things w/a grain of salt when a DO student says there is "little discrimination and you won't be limited in as far as opportunities. You may hear different on here, but it's nonsense." Check out this thread http://www.studentdoctor.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61585

CaliGirlDO states:

"For those of you who are planning to apply to anesthesia next year and are interested in the west coast programs for more than just the weather/location....here is my take on the CA programs as it applies to DO's (since I have found it very difficult to find objective data about this):

They are basically split into your big name programs and the strong programs. Namely, UCSF, Stanford, and UCLA are "big name" and tend to only interview extremely competitive candidates with the whole package. They are also pretty DO unfriendly, meaning you can try to apply, but they will rank you lower just for being a DO regardless of your scores. I don't know any DO's who got an interview at UCSD. UC Irvine sometimes interviews DO's, I don't know many that have been accepted, unless you are a very strong candidate. Harbor-UCLA is also know to be pretty DO-unfriendly."
 
Deuce,

You of anyone should know that it's tough to go back to California regardless of whether you're a D.O. or MD. It's comfortable state to practice in, hence the competition.

Now, specifically regarding anesthesia, if you want some other "name" programs which arent on the west coast, it's very, very possible. Looking at NYCOM's recent anesthesia match list, the following aint that bad and will rival ANY MD school:

3- Einstein
2- Harvard
1- Yale
1-Cleveland Clinic
1-NYU
1- UMass
1- Univ of Chicago
1- UConn
1- Univ Buffalo
1- Univ of Wisconsin
3- Suny Downstate

More than 20 matched overall for anesthesia to MD programs.

Regarding Cali, it's tough but not impossible. I see about 5 students on my abbreviated list here heading to Cali including USC, Loma Linda, and Kaiser Perm from NYCOM for medicine.
 
Originally posted by Deuce 007 MD
Yes I agree you should do as Fenrezz states and go directly to the source and ask DO's if there is any discrimination. So take things w/a grain of salt when a DO student says there is "little discrimination and you won't be limited in as far as opportunities. You may hear different on here, but it's nonsense."

That's a good quote. Here's another one:

I've talked to plenty of DO's all of whom have told me there is no discrimination or blocked opportunities.

Unlike some pre-med/med students, I didn't hear this from a guy who has a brother whose friend's cousin is married to someone who heard that there is no discrimination. When I say there is no discrimination, it's because I got it from the source. DO's have told me this themselves, based on their experiences after medical school.

I didn't go to every Osteopathic physician in the country and ask for his or her specific experiences. Maybe there are a few who have felt doors close on them because the two letters after their name didn't match "MD". This despite the fact that they did the same amount of work, over the same amount of time, passed the same style of boards (sometimes the exact same boards) as allopathic students.

CaliGirlDO states:

"For those of you who are planning to apply to anesthesia next year and are interested in the west coast programs for more than just the weather/location....here is my take on the CA programs as it applies to DO's (since I have found it very difficult to find objective data about this):

They are basically split into your big name programs and the strong programs. Namely, UCSF, Stanford, and UCLA are "big name" and tend to only interview extremely competitive candidates with the whole package. They are also pretty DO unfriendly, meaning you can try to apply, but they will rank you lower just for being a DO regardless of your scores. I don't know any DO's who got an interview at UCSD. UC Irvine sometimes interviews DO's, I don't know many that have been accepted, unless you are a very strong candidate. Harbor-UCLA is also know to be pretty DO-unfriendly."

Well, there you go. If it's been your dream to do an anesthesiology residency at UCSF, Stanford, or UCLA, better stay as far away from DO schools as you can. Good for them.

No one ever said people will fall all over themselves to give a DO a competitive residency. If certain schools have policies that rank DO's lower, more power to them. Guess that means I won't be applying to a program that openly discriminates against certain people. Elitism at its very finest. Doesn't sound like the kind of place I would want to work, anyway. Of course, if I score 40 points higher on the USMLE than my MD competitor, I'm willing to bet they'll take a second look at my application.

I'll never understand the underlying hostility some allopathic students have towards their osteopathic counterparts.
 
Originally posted by Fenrezz

I'll never understand the underlying hostility some allopathic students have towards their osteopathic counterparts.

It is the similar to the underlying hostility that MDs of old felt for the original DOs: bitterness, jealousy, and a threat of competition. These people can't understand why they "worked so hard" to gain a spot at an allopathic institution when someone who was so "lazy" as to not have gotten a 35S on the mcat was able to get into medical school. These people need to get over themselves.
 
Ya know.. regarding the DO residency thing - the thing is, what are the qualifications of some of the people posting on this board? Are they qualified as experts in the residency process, how much experince do they have with this process, how many times have they participated in the process? Personal testimony about a friend who calims to "be on the residency board" is rather weak support at best, because it can't be verified. And where do their statistics come from, and how were those stats achieved?

Many, like duece 007 is well, a pre med waiting to start med school just like the rest of us, we can never honestly verify his background, ya know anyone can post on this board.

Also tons of omitted info is left out of these posts, not maliciously, just out of ignorance. For example, many DO's may not get into Cali schools because they didn't take the USMLE, they thought they could be accepted with just the COMLEX, or the fact that there are just less DO students in general and many didn't apply to Calif schools. I don't think that because there are only a "few" DO's in Calif programs is enough info to make the generalization that DO's are not picked for Cali programs or specialties.

The argument is not stronly supported.
 
Some programs (some in ortho I believe) won't accept DO applicants.
Some programs (some in ortho and in every other field I believe) won't accept MD applicants.

Six students from KCOM matched into ortho last year - mostly cities in Michigan and Ohio, but that's still a pretty good amount for a DO school that's suppose to give you trouble when you want a competitive residency like ortho. I looked through the match list and I saw matches at Hopkins, Gtown, and other schools with solid reputations - it seems like you're fine as long as you work hard, no?
 
I'm looking at the KCOM match list for 2003 and I notice that a heck of a lot of folks are choosing things other than Family Practice or IM - We're talking a healthy majority here. There may be more doing Anesthesia and EM than FP and IM.
 
Wow, I just join, and can't help but get myself into the middle of this "debate". First of all,
"That is what counts. What your patients think of you. Not what some silver spoon-fed, daddy bought my acceptance, I am a premed who drives a benz, pot-smoking, girl-loving but none-getting, arrogant, uninformed, and closed minded fool thinks. So as NIKE says "JUST D.O. IT". Peace out. "

What an absoloute rediculous statement. I hear a lot on this site about equality and practicing side-by-side. Statements like this would indicate to me that DOs, not MDs are the perpetrators facilitating the barriers. MD students are nothing like this. In fact, with regards to your play on being rich, if I am not mistaken DO schools are quite a bit more expensive than public allotahic schools. So, lets just put that one behind, chalk it up to ignorance or rage, and move on.

My opinion of osteopathic medicine is a good one. I have done a great deal of work in practices with DOs, granted they are mostly internal medicine and family practice, but I have no reason to think it would be different across specialities. I think they are fabulous doctors. Why didn't I go to a osteopathic school? Well, to be honest, I really don't see the merit or evidence-based proof that manipulation works. There are studies that indicate it does, but many more in which placebo effects are equally as effective. That being said, I didn't want to spend time learning something that in all likelihood I would not use, I chose to spend that time working with patients instead. Does this have anything to do with the quality of a physician, absoloutely not! There is such diversity even among physicians within a given modality. For example, one doc may be intent upon using celebrex as 1st line therapy for inflammation while another may choose vioox, yet the osteopath may choose manipulation and aspirin. Are any of these correct or incorrect, not a chance, the success is mesured in the patients recovery.

Am I naive enough to think that side-by-side medical practices are a reality, judging by the tension in this thread, I suppose not anymore. I think that there are many benefits to each program. Is it easier to graduate with an MD degree or DO degree, I don't think so, last time I checked there was not a great deal of variation in human anatomy, physiology, and pathology to the extent it can be taught better in one environment than another.

To the osteopaths who swear by manipulation, I am sorry, the evidence just isn't there at this point. But, I don't think it is an area which should require your defense, and certainly not an area that should elicit degredation from MD colleagues. Does manipulation define who one is as a doctor, NOPE, no more than prescribing medications defines an allopath. Being a doctor is much more about caring, compassioin, and the treatment of your patients. Alright, making a little money on the side is nice.

With regards to board scores and residency, this could be debated until we are all dead, someone is always going to have some obscure example of how one or the other was not accepted into some program based on their undergraduate medical training. The point is, DOs take heat from MD students primarily because their scores and stats prior to admission are generally lower (as a class), who cares, seriously there are so many people out there that would make great doctors but fall short on the "statistical" spectrum. I salute people who find a way to practice medicine at all costs. 10 years from now, in fact, probably already, nobody even cares about how you did on the MCAT or why you got that C in organic chemistry. The point is, everyone is in medical school to learn medicine. How we get there is of little importance once we are there. My last bit before I step off my pedastal and tackle the limbic system is this: Intelligence is only once component of being a physician, and cannot be measured soley by objective means, I know a great number of people who rocked the MCAT who don't know **** about medicine or what it takes to be a doctor, but they do tend to boost the averages and usually end up at great schools, and eventually become the doctors that everyone complains about after leaving the clinic. Stats mean very little. Personality, integrity, compassion, and desire are true measures of a quality physician. Unfortunately, until someone comes up with an objective way of measuring these qualities, I am afraid that heat will always be borne by the schools whose intelligence statistics fall short of the norm. Sorry🙂 Just ignore it, if people need to remind themselves how smart they are by degrading those who are "statistically" weaker then life holds in store for them great disappointment, beyond the field of medicine completely.
 
UNMC2006,
Nice Post. I agree. As a practitioner of manipulation, I see it work first hand. Is it real; is it placebo? I don't know. I bet the research for that would be real ugly. Anyway I like your post.
 
Ditto,
Finally some enlightenment after that JV pissing match.
 
You know Bull's Eye, I was remembering back to my first few days of medical school and I remember in our very first lecture on history and physical skills, the doc giving the lecture referred to the billions of dollars spent on back pain in the US every year. He went on to elude to the fact that all the treatments, MRIs, CT scans, are all done prematurely. He said that he has found one aspect of medicine which greatly enhances the chances that a patient will; be satisfied, be compliant, and be "cured" has not been dependent on the medication they walk out with or the diagnosis, but the doc actually putting his or her "healing hands" on the patient at some point.

Now, that is personal experience on his part, much as yours is to you, so there is no evidence that this is true, but it seems probable to me. Who knows if that is placebo, perhaps it is for patients who are hypochondriacs, but if there is widespread success, then research or not, there is no reason not to use it, especially if the patients are happy, and more importantly, if they keep coming back. In the end, that is how we make a living.
 
Originally posted by RockandRolldoc
I find it very amusing that some Ortho residencies don't take D.O.'s considering D.O. trained students are more qualified for the field of orthopedics than their m.d. counterparts. This isn't to say that an m.d. couldn't do the same job a D.O. could, it's just to say that OMM training gives you a more thorough understanding of the musculoskeletal structure of the human body, especially how it "INTERRELATES" a very important term in Osteopathic medicine that sometimes falls on deaf ears in the allopathic world.
Furthermore, D.O.'s are just more fun to hang out with. There are two medical schools down here, one D.O. the other m.d. and having spent time with people in both schools, i'd have to say that D.O.'s are more down to earth and just seem to get 'it' more. Yes there are tools in both schools, but the D.O. school would have an Ace Hardware's or local mom and pop store's amount of tools whereas the m.d. school is more like a Home Depot.. a warehouse of tools.
Is this a huge generalization????? YES! I admit it.... but is it any more of a generalization that D.O.'s are only suited to primary care or that they are not trained as well???? NO... THere may be one or two residencies that do not take D.O.'s .... but there are hundreds of residencies that don't take m.d.'s and we can apply to both. That's a pretty damn good deal.


You have zero evidence for these claims.

Lets stick to saying that DO/MD is roughly equal. DOs get mad when MDs come on here and try to put DOs down, which is totally justified.

But you DOs need to hold up to your end of the bargain too. Some of the DOs (you included) seem to have the same superiority complex (i.e. DOs are better than MDs) that you accuse of allopaths.
 
What evidence do I need?... it is my opinion based on my personal experience that I find DO's more fun to hang out with. Just relax drug pusher, i'm not claiming my opinions to be objectively true... i leave that twisted reasoning to dumb right wing conservative religous wacko's. However, my claim that there are hundreds of residencies that don't take allopathic students is very true.... they are osteopathic residencies. Yes, these residencies are found in great numbers at local community hospitals, something pretentious allopathic premeds look down upon as if to say that only a really wealthy person in a university hospital or someone with some derranged pathology is worth your medical skills. But like anything, if the doctor works hard and has dedication, they can make themselves one hell of a surgeon, even if their residency was at Community General as opposed to Douchebag University. Obviously in my post there was some hyperbole, but then again, it is my opinion, i don't claim, and quite frankly don't want to speak for anyone but myself. Free speech is a bitch... i learned this as a freshman in college when i went to protest against the KKK marching in town. I, being a jew, was completely offended by some of the marching remarks made by the rednecks, but I still completely hold they had a right to march. We don't suppress any opinions here. I'm also not stubborn, so if i start to meet a lot more allopaths worth hanging out with, i'll completely rescind my statements. My Opinions..... So call me an schmuck, call me arrogant ( I am) and call me whatever you want, I will still hold that the overall osteopathic experience is better.

PS... It is a freaking outrage that Ruben was in the bottom 2 on American Idol the other night. I think our country is doomed... this Josh guy, although he seems like a real nice wholesome country marine boy, he has no business being up there. This is not entirely based on the fact that country music completely sucks... it is based on the fact that he does not have nearly the amount of talent as the other contestants. I think America treats every election like they're voting for the prom king... that explains our past two presidential selections among other things...
 
You know rockandrolldoc, your opinions are yours and you are perfectly entitled to them. Personally, you must have met some allopaths that really rubbed you the wrong way to be so bitter that you would claim they are "not worth hanging out with" I hate to tell you, if you expect to be a good doctor, you are going to be "hanging out with" them a lot more, and I would suggest stepping down off your high horse or life could be very difficult. The same goes for allopaths out there speaking the same way about osteopaths. If we are going to have purposeful and successful integrative practices, these attitudes are not going to cut it. So, go ahead with your opinions, nobody here can take them away from you, but they are certainely pretty closed-minded, and in my opinion, will not serve you well throughout your career.
 
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