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OT: asking the boss for more money

Discussion in 'Pre-Veterinary' started by lostbunny, Jul 21, 2011.

  1. lostbunny

    2+ Year Member

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    So this isn't directly related to vet med, but in a way I think its loosely related because at some point in our careers we will all have to face awkward work moments.

    Basically my dilemma is that I'm in the midst of switching to a new job. This weekend is my last weekend at my current job and I start the new one on Tuesday.

    My new boss hired me knowing I had no direct experience in the field- but did have significant and related background experience. I went on on Thursday for my second 'trial'- and it was incredibly stressful as I felt the girl training me wasn't doing a very good job at showing me much, and we were so busy that I couldn't find much time to shadow or follow her around. Basically, I didn't feel like I could do the job independently once I replace her, next week. I was straight up with the boss and said I didn't feel confident, and so he's asked me to come out this weekend for more 'training'.

    However- this is where my dilemma comes in. As a result of me coming in to train at the new place, I've already told my current job that I can't work this weekend (short notice). So I'm sacrificing the odd $170-$200 I'd be making for the weekend to 'train' at the new place. I explained to the new boss that I would be working at the old job, so he offered to pay me to come in. He's offering $160 for the weekend (less than minimum wage if you count it to the hour)... but I will have to commute 1h there and 1 hour back- both days, and the work will likely be about an 8h shift both days I'm guessing.

    Do I leave it as is, and just take this experience to help me progress with my new position? Or do I ask him for more cash?

    He did mention one thing and said "I can't pay you full because you aren't fully trained". But they hired me *knowing* fully that I wasn't experienced in this specific discipline.

    Am I thinking to critically about this, and should I Just forget about the $10-$40 I'm missing out on?

    I've become a bit bitter with these awkward moments from past employment, and so I'm constantly juggling whether or not the boss/employer is trying to save an extra dollar, or if I'm in the wrong.

    Any experiences, suggestions or advice would be appreciated :)
     
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  3. jmo1012

    jmo1012 SGU (NCSU) c/o 2015!
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    i think you need to just write off the loss. its just part of switching employment. if the money is that big of a deal, you should not have cancelled your other shift. i think it potentially leaves a bad taste in the new employer's mouth if you're asking about money already.
     
  4. Minnerbelle

    Moderator Emeritus 7+ Year Member

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    So lemme get this right. So you already complained to the boss about losing money for coming in and missing your other job's shifts... so he offers you $160. And you're bitter that you could be making $170-200 instead? I'd be hoo-hawing for joy! The guy isn't making you quit your job and work for him. That's a choice you made. It's not his fault either that you have to commute. And people commute all the time, and very few people get compensated for that. You make it seem like this guy is ripping you off $10-$40... but I don't see how that makes sense. No oneis obligated to pay you the same amount as your other job.

    And I know that you feel a bit shafted because he hired you knowing you weren't trained... but again, he's also not obligated to give you those extra hours of work this weekend. Not sure if this makes much of a difference, but is the actual pay you'll start receiving starting Tues that significantly higher than what he's paying you for this weekend? I'm not sure what the labor laws are in canada land, in terms of how much one needs to get paid for training, etc... But even if he's slightly violating labor laws, I really don't think this is one I'd ever take up with a boss. But then again, I'm one to put up with a lot of shaft... I'm currently working at 65% of the pay that I'm used to getting for pretty much the same job description (and my level of expertise has only gone up since my old job) minus benefits/vacation. Makes me want to cry sometimes.

    Edit: oh wait... you're in australia? wasn't it with you that i gloated on the bruin's victory???
     
  5. bunnity

    bunnity Penn 2014
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    How is $10/hour less than minimum wage?
     
  6. lostbunny

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    Sorry hold on- I made a big typo... I meant to write, he'll be giving me $120 instead of making $200 at my current job (for all intents and purposes I guess I would be getting around $170-$200). I wrote $160, but I meant $120 ($60/day).

    Bunnity: I'm in Australia and min. wage is about $16/h

    Minnerbelle: Hey hey easy on now! I didn't *complain* to him that I'm already working; when he asked me to come in on the weekend, I said to him that I can't because I'm already working at my other job (i.e. prior commitments. He asked me to come in for Saturday and Sunday on Thursday afternoon). I don't feel its fair to my current boss to give her 2 days notice that I all of a sudden I can't work on the weekend. Thats when he offered to pay me.

    I like my current job, but the hours just aren't enough and I basically have to choose between the two. The new job is full time, live-in, and an hour away from where I'm living now. My old job is about 2- 3 days a week, and very little pay. So I had to make the choice, as you said.

    As you also said, you often get shafted. I think its important to ask for more pay when you deserve it, or ask for something when you are entitled to it, but I'm just conflicted in this situation if its worth it, or if it is in fact even a situation to get worked up about. I'm not trying to make him sound like a crook or tight arse in any way, I'm just trying to gauge whether or not I should bother putting myself in an awkward situation or just leave it and hope that one shaft doesn't equal out to more shafts in the future.

    And no, he's not obligated to pay me and he's not forcing me to quit my job or do anything. But I feel like if they hired me on the terms they did, then they should have been prepared to deal with the fact that I wouldn't be able to work independently on my own at the very beginning, and so should have come up with some method of training/shadowing when I started, rather then me having to change my life around (*before* I even technically work for them), and resulting in me having to shaft my current boss.

    Yes that was me who you said the hockey thing to, and yes I'm in Australia.
     
  7. sooprnova

    sooprnova Penn c/o 2016!
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    As someone who has years of management experience, I say suck it up. You don't want to be the squeaky wheel before you even start working. It's hard enough to build positive employer/employee relationships when you start off on the right foot, let alone the wrong one.

    You said that this job is more hours and more pay than your previous job, so you'll easily make that "lost" money back in the long run. Also, please don't take offense to this, but a job for which you only train for a day or two is probably not a career-type position, so it's not like you'll be working there forever. I say let it go, build a strong relationship with the boss by showing him you're flexible, and enjoy your new position!
     
  8. CurrySpice

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    So are you worried about the money or about burning your bridge at your old job? Those are separate issues with separate solutions.

    Your opportunity to ask for more money has passed, imo. When your new boss offered $120, you could have told him that you would make $170 at the other job and couldn't afford the loss. It does not look good to go back in now.
     
  9. sunshinevet

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    Firstly, min wage here in australia IS only around $10-12.

    Secondly, here in Australia a new employer IS required to pay you for training. And what they are required to pay you is a substantial portion of your full wage once the "training" period is over. Ive seen quite a few international people get duped into accepting no pay for training, or pay that is grossly below what they would actually be earning (ie, half or less).

    Given that he agreed to pay you I would let it slide - for now. However, it is something to keep in mind for future jobs over here - they MUST pay you for training and if they are difficult about it, probably not worth working for them anyway!
     
  10. LetItSnow

    LetItSnow Skipping the light fandango
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    Here's my life advice: don't fight your conscience. If you don't feel it's fair, then it isn't and you shouldn't do it.

    At the very, very least, talk to your current boss, explain the situation, and see if things can be done on that end to facilitate you being gone. (Assuming current boss knows you're leaving soon already?)
     
  11. GellaBella

    GellaBella Penn Vet V'14
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    I agree with these comments, as well as others above.

    I think it would be a bad idea to ask for more money right off the bat before you've even started this job. I think it would not look favorable for you, and would leave a less your boss with a less than pleasant opinion of you...and as a first opinion, that will be hard to shake. I'm assuming you may need this boss' letter of recommendation some day. Better to not rock the boat. If, at the time of the offer you had maybe compromised, and asked for $140 instead of the $120, maybe you would have been able to get that, but now I think the time has passed.

    Sure, you're making less than you'd like, but who isn't these days?

    Plenty of people take pay cuts. with my degree I should be making at least double what I'm being paid this summer, but hey, I'm happy to be making some money and I know I'm going to use this guy as a reference, so, I dont worry about it. The reference is more valuable to me than the money in the long run. Especially if it were only a difference of $80 or so
     
  12. lostbunny

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    soopernova: thanks and I appreciate your advice. And I can tell you now this definately is NOT a career type job for me!

    CurrySpice: No I'm not concerned about burning bridges, my old boss was completely understanding. She said straight up that she can't offer me the hours I want so if something else comes up then by all means take it! What you mentioned about the 'time passing' is really what I was concerned about. The whole mention of pay and last minute work/training was all done in a really casual sort of manner where it was just mentioned and talked about quickly before parting ways. So I got caught up or stuffed up, and just sort of went along without really thinking about anything more deeply... does that make sense? :/ I guess the moral is to think quicker and not be so blase about something significant!

    sunshinevet: in Australia, national minimum wage is $15.51/h AUD or $16.82 USD/h http://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay/national-minimum-wage/pages/default.aspx - and I believe thats before the new increase thats supposed to take effect this month (?).

    LetItSnow and Gallabella: thank you for wisdom and life advice :) :)
     
  13. lareinesoleil

    lareinesoleil WSU CVM c/o 2015!!!
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    my $0.02: if I understand correctly, and your issue with pay is just for that one weekend, then I'd just roll with it and take the loss, because you'll feel that it's worth it when your first few weeks at the job are less stressful (due to you being more confident).

    However, if you're not happy with your hourly rate in general, I think now is the time to talk to your boss - to see if you get a raise later, or whatever.
     
  14. Dsmoody23

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    Everyone has to soak up a bit of a loss when they start a new job. If it's not permanent, and it's the standard where you work... roll with it.

    If it's something that becomes standard practice, then you have a problem.

    Otherwise, it rarely pays to get yourself a reputation as a whiner (whether it's legit or not) in your first week working for a new boss.
     
  15. sunshinevet

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    Thats only the minimum wage if you are not being employed under an award. Awards are industry and state specific, and an employer may chose to employ you under the conditions of an award, of which minimum wages may be lower.
    For example, the award wage of an unqualified vet nurse ("animal care attendant") in WA is only like, $13.60AUD an hour.
    National minimum wage is to protect those employees who aren't protected under an award. Which seems a bit silly if the minumum for those people is higher than that of people under an award...But the award system is horrendously confusing!
     
  16. lostbunny

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    Thanks everyone for your advice. The weekend was super stressful! But, a lot of people have told me when they first started it was extremely stressful but it gets easier as you go on (I suppose this is with any job!).

    The boss is actually a really nice guy, and working with him over the weekend was definately a good way to ease into it rather then just jumping into the deep end (or rather... being thrown!). So after that, the money isn't really a huge deal- I think I was just initially feeling stressed out about it because I had to cancel work with my current boss on really short notice, and kind of felt in one of those positions where I didn't want to piss anyone off, but in the end *someone* would have to get the short end of the stick..

    Anyhoo thanks everyone for reading- tomorrow I officially start. Gaah... Tuesday should be a cruisy day- but Wednesday there's a game and I'm stressing already just thinking about it!! It didn't really help that the girl training me was a bit of a crazy, rushy, stressful type herself. :S eep! I guess I've been in worse situations (i.e. in emergency with everyone seizing, vomiting, diarrhea-ing at once, while everyone needed catheters and meds at the same time... while the phone was ringing off the hook, and all docs were in appointments! Whew!).
     
  17. CurrySpice

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    Good for you! It sounds like a lovely experience and I wish you the best of luck :)
     
  18. lostbunny

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    thanks CurrySpice! :) :) !!!
     

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