Over 57 and residency - is it possible?

[ballen]

Hello all,

I'm concerned about the step for achieving a neurology or psych residency match at age 55/56 assuming acceptance to, matriculation in and stellar performance in Med school (MS). My focus as an older, late-in-life career changing dude (I.e young at heart, financially stable and single no kids) have recently been accepted to a two year post bacc as an older professional - 50 (excellent grades, and 21 years of varied pharma experience). My plan is to complete post bacc, take MCAT and apply to MS's in 2018 to start in 2019. If all goes well, I'd start residency at 55 or 56.

Sincerely, I'm intrigued by the physiological, emotional and behavioral effects due to degenerative neurological disease and effects (including economic) of PTSD resulting from unforeseen situations that instantaneously change a productive, previously hard-working adult (I.e. Our Young veterans). I refer not to psychology but to models that combine neurological systems-based assessments combined with psych therapy (and psychological counseling, if warranted).

So - I know precisely how I want to contribute to medicine and healthcare knowledge-base.

Here's the issue: my buddy is an Ob-Gyn (Columbia/Nyc grad) and his view of my quest, my fate, my journey is one he sees as dark, gloomy and dreadful. His concern, as he puts it is "practical" and he is only saying what others won't: that is, "no one will want you, not in residency and no one will hire you. You'll never work except in the Dakotas or rural places." He's s great guy and I think he means well !

My Q: are these maudlin pain-points "the reality"? I have a light hearted personality and humor and I take direction well and I love learning from experts (on any topic) regardless of their age. I mix well with a variety of people.
But ---- my age will not decrease... will I be shunned from all residency considerations? And don't people in rural areas also require treatment, care and healing?

PA school is a wonderful option but I have a guiding leader-type personality (pardon this personal plug-diversion) - my point is to eventually guide and help colleagues and upcoming physicians in treating and improving the mental and neurological "quality of life" of patients.

My buddy says my "ship has sailed". He purports that I will excel in med school, but so what - no residency program wants an old dude -no matter how cool or dedicated... no one!

I appreciate his candor - but is this true.
Am I doomed to wear a Scarlet Letter (O = too OLD , avoid at all costs) and to be jobless as a med school graduate (assuming I matriculate )?

I am aware that according to economic analysis younger US residents are most likely to treat many more patients than me over their "journey", even if they retire early AND I work from 60 (post residency) until I fall over in my white coat carrying my text books (iPad/ tablet) at 90 +() .

I'm confident I would contribute solutions to patients, regardless of my final healthcare destiny - it's a strong feeling I can't place into words well. I'm this "in love" with the human body, mind (and related spirit) regardless of it's stage of frailty or vigor!! I'm sincere.

Please - share your thoughts.

I want to start my new journey and I realize that I will generate controversy in some persons in the future as an older physician. But, I would not want to interfere in the progress of medicine if ageism is simply just too great, as my doctor buddy insists (and he insists - he comes across as upset that I am not simply adopting his words of advise).

Thank you all ! To me, you (Our Doctors and Healthcare Professionals) along with our veterans) are The Greatest American Heroes . If I could be so lucky to join the ranks as a cool old doc!!



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[bashwell]

Hello all,

I'm concerned about the step for achieving a neurology or psych residency match at age 55/56 assuming acceptance to, matriculation in and stellar performance in Med school (MS). My focus as an older, late-in-life career changing dude (I.e young at heart, financially stable and single no kids) have recently been accepted to a two year post bacc as an older professional - 50 (excellent grades, and 21 years of varied pharma experience). My plan is to complete post bacc, take MCAT and apply to MS's in 2018 to start in 2019. If all goes well, I'd start residency at 55 or 56.

Sincerely, I'm intrigued by the physiological, emotional and behavioral effects due to degenerative neurological disease and effects (including economic) of PTSD resulting from unforeseen situations that instantaneously change a productive, previously hard-working adult (I.e. Our Young veterans). I refer not to psychology but to models that combine neurological systems-based assessments combined with psych therapy (and psychological counseling, if warranted).

So - I know precisely how I want to contribute to medicine and healthcare knowledge-base.

Here's the issue: my buddy is an Ob-Gyn (Columbia/Nyc grad) and his view of my quest, my fate, my journey is one he sees as dark, gloomy and dreadful. His concern, as he puts it is "practical" and he is only saying what others won't: that is, "no one will want you, not in residency and no one will hire you. You'll never work except in the Dakotas or rural places." He's s great guy and I think he means well !

My Q: are these maudlin pain-points "the reality"? I have a light hearted personality and humor and I take direction well and I love learning from experts (on any topic) regardless of their age. I mix well with a variety of people.
But ---- my age will not decrease... will I be shunned from all residency considerations? And don't people in rural areas also require treatment, care and healing?

PA school is a wonderful option but I have a guiding leader-type personality (pardon this personal plug-diversion) - my point is to eventually guide and help colleagues and upcoming physicians in treating and improving the mental and neurological "quality of life" of patients.

My buddy says my "ship has sailed". He purports that I will excel in med school, but so what - no residency program wants an old dude -no matter how cool or dedicated... no one!

I appreciate his candor - but is this true.
Am I doomed to wear a Scarlet Letter (O = too OLD , avoid at all costs) and to be jobless as a med school graduate (assuming I matriculate )?

I am aware that according to economic analysis younger US residents are most likely to treat many more patients than me over their "journey", even if they retire early AND I work from 60 (post residency) until I fall over in my white coat carrying my text books (iPad/ tablet) at 90 +() .

I'm confident I would contribute solutions to patients, regardless of my final healthcare destiny - it's a strong feeling I can't place into words well. I'm this "in love" with the human body, mind (and related spirit) regardless of it's stage of frailty or vigor!! I'm sincere.

Please - share your thoughts.

I want to start my new journey and I realize that I will generate controversy in some persons in the future as an older physician. But, I would not want to interfere in the progress of medicine if ageism is simply just too great, as my doctor buddy insists (and he insists - he comes across as upset that I am not simply adopting his words of advise).

Thank you all ! To me, you (Our Doctors and Healthcare Professionals) along with our veterans) are The Greatest American Heroes . If I could be so lucky to join the ranks as a cool old doc!!



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So you're about 50 now, and you'll be an attending around 60. That's when people start winding down rather than starting their careers. Consider the following issues:

1) Physical/health concerns. How healthy are you? Maybe have a family physician evaluate your health. Can you make it through a grueling residency? Even psych isn't necessarily an easy residency, i'ts only "easy" compared to other residencies like surgery. But the good thing is you want to pursue psych rather than something more physically demanding.

2) Financial concerns. Is this entire process going to be financially possible for you? Only you know that. If you have to borrow a lot of loans to make it all happen, then I personally would not consider it.

3) Family concerns. What does your family think about this? Your spouse? Are you in a place where they can support you through all this?

Most people (including you here) sound very idealistic beforehand. After med school and residency, your idealism tends to become tempered. I'm just trying to be realistic with you. I sort of lean towards what your buddy says. Sure, it's "possible" for you to become an attending psychiatrist (and psychiatry isn't a difficult field to match in if you are a US MD/DO and are geographically flexible). But consider the practical issues.

I'll add I do know of some people who are in their 50s as residents (e.g., I know a former pharmacist and a former nurse who started FM residency at about age 50, and I know an IMG who is 50 as a psychiatrist, I think he was a psychiatrist in his home country). So it's "possible". I don't want to dissuade you, but it does seem tough for them, though they all seem to have a good attitude. Again just being realistic.

 

[Goro]

I'm going to be blunt: Medicine is not the Make-A-Wish Foundation.

Hello all,

I'm concerned about the step for achieving a neurology or psych residency match at age 55/56 assuming acceptance to, matriculation in and stellar performance in Med school (MS). My focus as an older, late-in-life career changing dude (I.e young at heart, financially stable and single no kids) have recently been accepted to a two year post bacc as an older professional - 50 (excellent grades, and 21 years of varied pharma experience). My plan is to complete post bacc, take MCAT and apply to MS's in 2018 to start in 2019. If all goes well, I'd start residency at 55 or 56.

Sincerely, I'm intrigued by the physiological, emotional and behavioral effects due to degenerative neurological disease and effects (including economic) of PTSD resulting from unforeseen situations that instantaneously change a productive, previously hard-working adult (I.e. Our Young veterans). I refer not to psychology but to models that combine neurological systems-based assessments combined with psych therapy (and psychological counseling, if warranted).

So - I know precisely how I want to contribute to medicine and healthcare knowledge-base.

Here's the issue: my buddy is an Ob-Gyn (Columbia/Nyc grad) and his view of my quest, my fate, my journey is one he sees as dark, gloomy and dreadful. His concern, as he puts it is "practical" and he is only saying what others won't: that is, "no one will want you, not in residency and no one will hire you. You'll never work except in the Dakotas or rural places." He's s great guy and I think he means well !

My Q: are these maudlin pain-points "the reality"? I have a light hearted personality and humor and I take direction well and I love learning from experts (on any topic) regardless of their age. I mix well with a variety of people.
But ---- my age will not decrease... will I be shunned from all residency considerations? And don't people in rural areas also require treatment, care and healing?

PA school is a wonderful option but I have a guiding leader-type personality (pardon this personal plug-diversion) - my point is to eventually guide and help colleagues and upcoming physicians in treating and improving the mental and neurological "quality of life" of patients.

My buddy says my "ship has sailed". He purports that I will excel in med school, but so what - no residency program wants an old dude -no matter how cool or dedicated... no one!

I appreciate his candor - but is this true.
Am I doomed to wear a Scarlet Letter (O = too OLD , avoid at all costs) and to be jobless as a med school graduate (assuming I matriculate )?

I am aware that according to economic analysis younger US residents are most likely to treat many more patients than me over their "journey", even if they retire early AND I work from 60 (post residency) until I fall over in my white coat carrying my text books (iPad/ tablet) at 90 +() .

I'm confident I would contribute solutions to patients, regardless of my final healthcare destiny - it's a strong feeling I can't place into words well. I'm this "in love" with the human body, mind (and related spirit) regardless of it's stage of frailty or vigor!! I'm sincere.

Please - share your thoughts.

I want to start my new journey and I realize that I will generate controversy in some persons in the future as an older physician. But, I would not want to interfere in the progress of medicine if ageism is simply just too great, as my doctor buddy insists (and he insists - he comes across as upset that I am not simply adopting his words of advise).

Thank you all ! To me, you (Our Doctors and Healthcare Professionals) along with our veterans) are The Greatest American Heroes . If I could be so lucky to join the ranks as a cool old doc!!



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[POW16]

Don't do it. Retire in 10-15 years. (or earlier if you can) Travel the world and enjoy life.

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[witzelsucht]

someone in my MS was about your age with stellar grades and failed to match. i vote "don't do it". residency is a grind.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I agree with others and your friend.

While there are always exceptions, the use of resources - medical school, residency and on the job training - are best spent with someone younger. Its certainly possible to do but I would suspect that most residencies and employers will hold your age against you.

Lastly, as someone who has been through it, there is a physical toll and the recovery takes longer the older you get.

 

[ballen]

These are helpful. Even the blunt one - although by misunderstanding I'm not so sappy... still appreciate the thoughts.


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[northernpsy]

I am a psychiatrist, so I wanted to jump in here with a different view.
I do think that what specialty you are thinking about matters a great deal.
I think it is significant that your friend who says don't do it is an OB/gyn and some of the commenters above are surgeons. Would I want to do an Ob/Gyn residency or General Surgery residency in my mid-50s? HELLLLLL no. Those types of residencies are extremely stressful, physically demanding, and fast paced in ways that I would seriously doubt someone who is 50+ could handle (or want to handle) unless they were an exceptionally energetic person in unusually good physical condition for their age.

However, Psychiatry IS a different world. If you truly can't think of anything else you could do with the time that would be more rewarding to you, then I could see psychiatry working out for you.
Psychiatry is a fairly common "Career Change" specialty - I know of several docs who practiced in other specialties for a number of years before switching into Psych, including one case where I do believe the doc was in his 50s when he switched.

I also know of cases where people with physical disabilities successfully trained and work as a psychiatrist (for example, a blind psychiatrist or someone confined to a wheelchair) so I think it would be feasible to have a longer career as a psychiatrist than as a surgeon. I don't think there are very many OBs or surgeons who still work in their 70s or 80s (correct me if I'm wrong, surgery peeps) but I know of a number of psychiatrists who still work at that age - just maybe not seeing as many patients. I also feel like psychiatry is just generally a culture where the maturity and wisdom that comes with age tends to be more valued. I feel like as I get older I am becoming a better psychiatrist than I was in my younger days because I understand more of the human experience.

While psychiatry does require that you have to be able to handle several months of internal medicine and neurology during internship, the physical demands of a psychiatry residency are nothing close to the physical demands of surgical fields like OB and GS.

Psychiatry is also a field that is in extremely high demand, so IF you can successfully complete med school and a residency in Psych, I would not worry about you getting hired. I mean, seriously, places are desperate for psychiatrists. Most of my interviews for psych jobs have basically been formalities because just about every healthcare system out there (even in desirable parts of the country for the most part, with few exceptions) needs more psychiatrists.

Now, all that being said...chances are you would have an easier, less stressful and quite possibly more financially secure life just focusing on your current career and riding it out into retirement. However, if you really believe that psychiatry is what you want to do with the rest of your precious time on this earth, then I could see going for it. Yes, going for this kind of career at a younger age would always be the more ideal path, but you only get one shot at life (as far as we know), so better late than never if you are REALLY SURE you want to take the plunge and can handle the financial risks of going down this path.

 

[SilentCool]

Great plan, dude...if you plan to work until you're dead!

 

[northernpsy]

Great plan, dude...if you plan to work until you're dead!

Some psychiatrists do that! Now, *I* don't plan to, but it does happen.

 

[Misterioso.]

Assuming you would take student loans, why would you want to accrue debt from medical school in your 50s when you could use that money for a sweet retirement? You also will have a hard time keeping up with your med school peers given your age, not to mention having to take orders from people decades younger than you instead of being their boss as would be more the natural order of things. While psychiatry is a different world and more accepting of non-traditional backgrounds than other fields, how easy would it be to find a job as a junior attending at age 60? Most places want someone for the long term and despite you telling them you'll work til you drop, why would they pick you over a younger candidate without more experience?

 

[DrSnips]

I have seen a lot of residents in various fields and none of them were 55+. Is that entirely because the number of people opting for late-life career changes is very low? Maybe. But for all I know it's because such people are being rejected from med school and residency on the basis of age. If that's the case, then you are about to waste a lot of time and money studying for a career you can never have. If you are serious about this, you might want to find some subtle ways to make inquiries about whether med schools would actually consider you before you go off taking post-bacs and MCATs.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

N=1. We matched a resident sev years ago who was 50-55. We were worried that they might not be able to handle the hours/workload, or that they wouldn't fit in well with the rest of their class. We were wrong. They did fine, no problems with calls, loved by their colleagues. Matched to a H/O fellowship, so three more years of training to go. They were very successful in a prior career, but miserable.

That said, all the the above is true also. Just because it worked for them, doesn't mean it will for you. If you go to med school in your 50's and are in the top quarter of your class, you'll probably be fine as someone will be willing to give it a go. If you're in the bottom quarter, it may be a bigger issue.

 

[ballen]

Psych / neuro has always been the plan for my change. Finances I'm ok . I've also traveled well and lived in both Brazil and Paris - so traveling and relaxing will continue to find their places in my life, regardless of career.

However the points made about younger physicians (aside from fitness, I'm very fit and very young at heart and social) and longevity, I take seriously - thank you.
I have made connections with Admissions Directors at several med schools and they indicate that age is Not a factor for acceptance. However, my concern is about meaningful contribution to medicine, which means to me acceptance to residency compatible and accepting with my skills and desires. Location doesn't bother me, as I stated I'm fortunate to have already lived in wonderful places and traveled well.

Commitment desire and longevity seem to be characteristics I need to sell (psych is definitely high on my list) - but I also see myself accepting positions (if possible) in global health as well.

I'm a realist, but I think my case is unique - nevertheless, I appreciate any help and comments to lead me forward logically!

If I have to hang it up, that's that! At least I tried and can go into the ground knowing I tried.

So - all comments are helpful, even the nasty blunt and direct ones !

Although I know I would make a compassionate surgeon, and I'm sure there are many, it is not logical for me to even consider any medical health profession related to surgery! I have totally come to grips with this! So....

Thanks to all so far!



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[IM2GI]

There are many other ways to practice medicine these days other than being an MD.

I think it would be crazy to do 2 years post-BAC, 4 years med school, to then potentially not even match.

If you were 40 I would say its on the realm of being reasonable. At 50+ it just seems that ship has sailed.

I would try to get into PA school if you think that clinical work is your real calling.

 

[cerebral edema]

I wouldn't recommend a neurology residency at that age. Perhaps psych

 

[bashwell]

I have made connections with Admissions Directors at several med schools and they indicate that age is Not a factor for acceptance.

Officially, an admissions committee won't tell you age is a factor because it's illegal to discriminate based on age. However, practically speaking, they can deny you for other reasons, even though the real reason is age. Same goes for residency. I'm not saying you won't be accepted to med school or residency. My only point is the official answer may be different than the unofficial answer. Just something to be aware of.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

There are pros and (many more) cons to starting medical school at 50.

Pros: Presumably, you are emotionally more mature, you have perspective and life experiences, (hopefully) are financially secure already, and will be motivated to finish.

Cons: It's been decades since you've had to study, and while a pharmacy background will be somewhat helpful, it will be rough relearning study habits. Subtracting (instead of adding) from your finances this close to retirement will hurt. You have to deal with the politics and mind games of medical school and residency when most people are glad to have put that kind of crap behind them.

I'm not going to say it's impossible, but it's going to be significantly harder than an already hard path.

 

[npappasan]

Your friend has no clue what he is talking about. I'm an OB and one of my co-residents who started with me was 50. Last summer, I met a psychiatrist who was 70 while vacationing in Aruba, or Aruber if you're from Long Island. This guy had been a dentist for 30+ years and went back to med school in his late 50's and finished his resudency in his 60's. He had only been in practice about 6 years or so. Remember, whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.

 

[IM2GI]

Your friend has no clue what he is talking about. I'm an OB and one of my co-residents who started with me was 50. Last summer, I met a psychiatrist who was 70 while vacationing in Aruba, or Aruber if you're from Long Island. This guy had been a dentist for 30+ years and went back to med school in his late 50's and finished his resudency in his 60's. He had only been in practice about 6 years or so. Remember, whether you think you can or think you can't, you're right.

this guy, best case scenario, will be late 50s when he STARTS his residency, and will be 60 when he finishes.

I cant imagine a lot of employers are looking to hire a 60 year old brand new grad.

It is fine to be optimistic, and sure this could all work out, but fairly high risk IMO.

The thought of going back and doing the level of intense studying that his pre-med and med school classes requires makes me want to kill myself. I honestly dont think I could go back and do it, and I am fresh out of fellowship. We should not discount the "Im too old for this ****" level of stamina some of these grueling undergrad and med school study sessions were like. Not only that, but hes going to have to be a rockstar in his classes, not just passing or mediocre.

All things being equal, programs would take a mediocre late 20s over a mediocre late 50s. Naive to think that ageism, while technically illegal, would not play a roll here.

PA school has much of the clinical upside without nearly as much risk.

That said, if this guy has 10 million in the bank, doesnt care about potential failure, and it's his dream, go for it.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

Don't do it!

 

[OTOSwap]

Do PA-C, it is much better, less liability. PA's can do everything, make good money, have flexibility.

 

[vm26]

Do PA-C, it is much better, less liability. PA's can do everything, make good money, have flexibility.

I started at 30 and agree with above, much more bang for your buck...on a side note, I think many of us will be working to some capacity past 65 out of necessity...

 

[michaelrack]

this guy, best case scenario, will be late 50s when he STARTS his residency, and will be 60 when he finishes.

I cant imagine a lot of employers are looking to hire a 60 year old brand new grad.
.

That wouldn't be an issue for a majority of psychiatry jobs. A majority of hospitals and community mental health centers would be quite willing to hire a new grad who they figured would stick around for 5 years. It might be an issue for some private practices

 

[IM2GI]

That wouldn't be an issue for a majority of psychiatry jobs. A majority of hospitals and community mental health centers would be quite willing to hire a new grad who they figured would stick around for 5 years. It might be an issue for some private practices

Thats a lot of time, money, stress, sweat equity to practice for 5 years.

 

[northernpsy]

That wouldn't be an issue for a majority of psychiatry jobs. A majority of hospitals and community mental health centers would be quite willing to hire a new grad who they figured would stick around for 5 years. It might be an issue for some private practices

I agree. Getting a job as an attending psychiatrist would be the least of the hurdles that the OP would face.

 

[michaelrack]

Thats a lot of time, money, stress, sweat equity to practice for 5 years.

I agree

 

[Gastrapathy]

Your friend is right.

You could do more for our Veterans by working to retirement and then volunteering with a VSO than you will on this path.

You won't "contribute to the health care knowledge base" because meaningful research takes time that you don't have.

Your "guiding leader-type" personality does not fit with the next decade of education. The first 6 years, if all goes well, you are a student. The fat man was right about the usefulness of students.

You will have a small amount of gradual responsibility for teams as a resident and maybe be part of resident councils and the like but you won't be in charge of anything meaningful.

Then, at the end of that decade, you are a junior attending starting at the bottom of another hierarchy.

Get a Masters in Social Work if you want a second career helping people.

 

[npappasan]

Or go to medical school if that's what you want to do...

 

[atomi]

Another n=1. I am in a very specialized field and we interviewed an applicant in his early to mid 40s who was essentially shot down by junior faculty who did not want to train someone older than them.

To believe that you will not experience age bias is naive. Non competitive fields such as fam med and psych may be options. Subspecialites will be much, much more difficult. I started this process in my early 20s and am nearly done and am sad every day reflecting on the life I have missed. It's something to seriously think about. If you won't enjoy the ride from 50 to 60 while in med school and residency, then don't do it. You need to be doing things you enjoy completely at this point. The time for paying your dues has long since passed.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

One of my family member was diagnosed with a life changing illness right around that time. It's scary, one can go from "young at heart and body" to being destroyed by chemoradiation in an instant.

Be kind to yourself, don't do this, incase bad things happen to good people like you.

 

[rokshana]

Another n=1. I am in a very specialized field and we interviewed an applicant in his early to mid 40s who was essentially shot down by junior faculty who did not want to train someone older than them.

To believe that you will not experience age bias is naive. Non competitive fields such as fam med and psych may be options. Subspecialites will be much, much more difficult. I started this process in my early 20s and am nearly done and am sad every day reflecting on the life I have missed. It's something to seriously think about. If you won't enjoy the ride from 50 to 60 while in med school and residency, then don't do it. You need to be doing things you enjoy completely at this point. The time for paying your dues has long since passed.

i get that a reason could be someone older may not be able to do the job, have the stamina, feel uncomfortable having to be trained by those younger than them, but for junior faculty say that don't want to train someone older than them is asinine...tell them to grow up for heavens sake...

and yes, i may be bias since i was older than the average intern/resident and that never had a role in my interactions with my senior residents, fellows, or attending...while chronologically I may have been older, I knew education and experience wise, I was the junior and acted accordingly...there isn't any reason to believe the mid 40s applicant wouldn't do the same.

 

[nimbus]

It's your life. Spend your time doing what makes you happy. If that is learning medicine, then learn medicine.

Peter Wingfield aka Methos was a 50+ yo intern at my hospital.

 

[ortnakas]

If you're 50 now, there are a lot more efficient ways you can help veterans with PTSD than becoming a psychiatrist. Google "volunteer to help veterans with PTSD." There are many groups you could help with your currently existing skill set-- which means you could be of assistance 5-9 years sooner, without taking the personal, financial and health hits that medical school and residency might take to you personally.

 

[bannie22]

Its great to follow your dreams. But i think you should seriously reconsider the torture you are even suggesting putting yourself through in the suppposedly relaxing years in your life.

 

[nimbus]

Its great to follow your dreams. But i think you should seriously reconsider the torture you are even suggesting putting yourself through in the suppposedly relaxing years in your life.

It's funny that you are in a residency forum calling medical training "torture". I'm 50 and I work harder now than I ever did as a resident because my love for this work has grown over the years. 50 is not really THAT old.

 

[JustPlainBill]

Hello all,

I'm concerned about the step for achieving a neurology or psych residency match at age 55/56 assuming acceptance to, matriculation in and stellar performance in Med school (MS). My focus as an older, late-in-life career changing dude (I.e young at heart, financially stable and single no kids) have recently been accepted to a two year post bacc as an older professional - 50 (excellent grades, and 21 years of varied pharma experience). My plan is to complete post bacc, take MCAT and apply to MS's in 2018 to start in 2019. If all goes well, I'd start residency at 55 or 56.

Sincerely, I'm intrigued by the physiological, emotional and behavioral effects due to degenerative neurological disease and effects (including economic) of PTSD resulting from unforeseen situations that instantaneously change a productive, previously hard-working adult (I.e. Our Young veterans). I refer not to psychology but to models that combine neurological systems-based assessments combined with psych therapy (and psychological counseling, if warranted).

So - I know precisely how I want to contribute to medicine and healthcare knowledge-base.

Here's the issue: my buddy is an Ob-Gyn (Columbia/Nyc grad) and his view of my quest, my fate, my journey is one he sees as dark, gloomy and dreadful. His concern, as he puts it is "practical" and he is only saying what others won't: that is, "no one will want you, not in residency and no one will hire you. You'll never work except in the Dakotas or rural places." He's s great guy and I think he means well !

My Q: are these maudlin pain-points "the reality"? I have a light hearted personality and humor and I take direction well and I love learning from experts (on any topic) regardless of their age. I mix well with a variety of people.
But ---- my age will not decrease... will I be shunned from all residency considerations? And don't people in rural areas also require treatment, care and healing?

PA school is a wonderful option but I have a guiding leader-type personality (pardon this personal plug-diversion) - my point is to eventually guide and help colleagues and upcoming physicians in treating and improving the mental and neurological "quality of life" of patients.

My buddy says my "ship has sailed". He purports that I will excel in med school, but so what - no residency program wants an old dude -no matter how cool or dedicated... no one!

I appreciate his candor - but is this true.
Am I doomed to wear a Scarlet Letter (O = too OLD , avoid at all costs) and to be jobless as a med school graduate (assuming I matriculate )?

I am aware that according to economic analysis younger US residents are most likely to treat many more patients than me over their "journey", even if they retire early AND I work from 60 (post residency) until I fall over in my white coat carrying my text books (iPad/ tablet) at 90 +() .

I'm confident I would contribute solutions to patients, regardless of my final healthcare destiny - it's a strong feeling I can't place into words well. I'm this "in love" with the human body, mind (and related spirit) regardless of it's stage of frailty or vigor!! I'm sincere.

Please - share your thoughts.

I want to start my new journey and I realize that I will generate controversy in some persons in the future as an older physician. But, I would not want to interfere in the progress of medicine if ageism is simply just too great, as my doctor buddy insists (and he insists - he comes across as upset that I am not simply adopting his words of advise).

Thank you all ! To me, you (Our Doctors and Healthcare Professionals) along with our veterans) are The Greatest American Heroes . If I could be so lucky to join the ranks as a cool old doc!!



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So, being one of the ones who started med school at 42 and graduated from residency at 50 and now about 4 years in practice:

1) medical school itself is a beating. You can be as happy-happy, joy-joy feelings as you want but it's still a beating. No one will cut you any slack for being older and some of these kids have been in the pipeline since HS. Now, do we frequently see non-trads in the top 10% of the class -- yes.

2) Residency --even FM -- is a beating. I was in my late 40s and it still sucked -- part of the problem was that I was older than some of my attendings so we had to go wander through the desert until they arrived at what I had already concluded from the outset -- why?-- because they didn't have the experience and rigorously held to EBM guidelines. One of my attendings who was the worst about it, commented the last week of my residency that community physicians with experience sometimes did things that were outside the EBM guidelines because they had all of that experience and that EBM guidelines were for young docs who didn't have all the experience (like I'd been trying to freakin' tell them all along -- this was the one who wanted me to do a rectal looking for blood on a patient with frank blood in the stool at the bedside commode in the ER the night after a polypectomy that morning when GI had said if bleeding occurred, get admitted and call them which is what I did).

3) Cost -- you're looking at a significant amount of medical school loan debt to the tune of about $1800/month for 25 years. Granted, they go away when you die or become disabled so your estate won't suffer.

4) I get that you're "intrigued" -- but that's not going to be enough to sustain you when you have to regurgitate the glycolytic pathway with respect to the L-Carnitine shuttle or recall the artery of adamkewicz and it's precise location/relevance when studying for Boards or pull a 36 hour shift on newborn nursery or OB --- I agree with the OB -- your ship has sailed......sorry.

I would not recommend this, especially since you have to do a 2 year post bacc --

 

[d2305]

If you went to college 30 years ago, your courses won't be accepted for admission.

 

[JustPlainBill]

Your friend is right.

You could do more for our Veterans by working to retirement and then volunteering with a VSO than you will on this path.

You won't "contribute to the health care knowledge base" because meaningful research takes time that you don't have.

Your "guiding leader-type" personality does not fit with the next decade of education. The first 6 years, if all goes well, you are a student. The fat man was right about the usefulness of students.

You will have a small amount of gradual responsibility for teams as a resident and maybe be part of resident councils and the like but you won't be in charge of anything meaningful.

Then, at the end of that decade, you are a junior attending starting at the bottom of another hierarchy.

Get a Masters in Social Work if you want a second career helping people.

This --- you need to read and re-read this post -- it is spot on.

And the phrase "guiding leader-type" wrt personality --- you pull that on some IM teams with which I am familiar and you'll get your rear end chewed with great skill and artistry right in front of God and everyone in the middle of the ward and possibly have a counseling session with your PD....

 

[rokshana]

If you went to college 30 years ago, your courses won't be accepted for admission.

not true...all the admissions committee is going to worry about are those BCPM classes that are required and how he did and how he does in the post bac program...

 

[d2305]

Prerequisites: How old is "too old"?

 

[SageRad]

Interesting thread (I have not read all of the replies). As a fit, healthy 51 year old, the idea of going back and starting med school at my age makes me ill. It is a young person's game, and, for the most part, so is residency. What are you, a reverse Doogie Howser?

If you were already an MD and burned out in your field or could not manage some of the physical demands but wanted to stay in medicine, a switch to Psych might (MIGHT) make sense. Starting from scratch, a couple years from applying to med school? Not so much.

How about becoming a social worker? You could probably jump right into a Master's program, do an internship and quickly start or join a behavioral health practice in whatever area you like.

 

[alecseriously]

Your ambition and passion is great, but consider the 20-30 year old who is also ambitious and passionate who's spot you will take if you are accepted and they aren't. That a physician who will be practicing for 40+ years compared to your... 10?

Also, you'd have to be much younger to have any significant impact on medical research. It takes 5-10 years to become an established researcher.

I agree with the posts above: volunteer or get an MSW.


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[J ROD]

If you plan to practice for at least 20 years once you are out....then I would say go for it if your heart is in. This **** is not for the faint at heart. It is life consuming.

 

[rokshana]

Your ambition and passion is great, but consider the 20-30 year old who is also ambitious and passionate who's spot you will take if you are accepted and they aren't. That a physician who will be practicing for 40+ years compared to your... 10?

Also, you'd have to be much younger to have any significant impact on medical research. It takes 5-10 years to become an established researcher.

I agree with the posts above: volunteer or get an MSW.


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He would not be "taking" some just as qualified 20 somethings place... the person that didn't get that spot obviously wasn't as qualified, ambitious, or as passionate otherwise they would have gotten the spot in the 1st place... and a non traditional applicant generally has to be the one that has to prove themselves over the traditional aged student.

And there are plenty of 20-30 year olds that decide after going through the process, work a few years and then leave medicine... so would you say the same thing to the person who decides that after getting married and having kids that they want to leave medicine to be a stay at home parent that they too shouldn't have gone to med school if they were only going to practice 5-10 years and they took someone else 's spot who was "just as ambitious and passionate" ?

 

[Bobblehead]

Sincerely, I'm intrigued by the physiological, emotional and behavioral effects due to degenerative neurological disease and effects (including economic) of PTSD resulting from unforeseen situations that instantaneously change a productive, previously hard-working adult (I.e. Our Young veterans). I refer not to psychology but to models that combine neurological systems-based assessments combined with psych therapy (and psychological counseling, if warranted).

So - I know precisely how I want to contribute to medicine and healthcare knowledge-base.

The OP appears to have disappeared but for others that are searching this thread, this is what PhD routes are for. Contribute to knowledge by going straight to the research aspect.

 

[bashwell]

The OP appears to have disappeared but for others that are searching this thread, this is what PhD routes are for. Contribute to knowledge by going straight to the research aspect.

Although I'm not sure if doing a PhD at age 57 is advisable either.

 

[Dral]

You have to think about how long you'd be in practice. It has been brought up in the thread already.

If you plan to practice for 5 years. NO WAY is going though all that worth it.

If you plan to practice for 10 years. That's probably not worth it, imo.

If you plan to practice 20 years. That's probably worth it.

So you know that I have at least SOME perspective, I started med school at 33. I just finished my first year of practice....and I'm 44.

The investment is huge from all standpoints (time, money, stress, relationships, etc).

 

[michaelrack]

It's called medical school, not "Psychiatry school"... I would recommend against medical school for someone who could only be happy in 1 specialty and doesn't have a strong interest in being a doctor 1st

 

[Nephro critical care]

Would strongly advise against it. We had an older age resident who was a medical related field and got into medical school after the age of 40 . He had diabetes and HTN. Went into a residency and couldn't cut it after 2 years and left/ was canned. Came into our program and did first year fine. In 2nd year it was obvious he was very slow and reflexes were not what they should be in especially in an ICU setting. Went on probation worked his butt off and still couldn't cut it. Maybe being 50 had something to do with it. Did not have his 2nd year contract renewed. I don't think he is practicing medicine now.$ 200,000 of debt. On top of all that he also got divorced. Should have stayed in paramedical field.
I have seen another resident successfully finish residency after the age of 55. But being a pulm/CC attending in Cuba for 25 years and then starting residency in USA helped.