Overall GPA of 3.2. Can good E.C. and high MCAT still land an acceptance to a good school?

[Berb]

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I've only just recently been returning a ~3.5 quarterly gpa for the past 4 semesters.

My overall GPA is a 3.2, with a science GPA of 3.3.
MCAT of 520.

Three years of research work, ~200 hours of non-clinical volunteering, no shadowing.

I believe I can make an above average personal statement, and am confident in my ability under the interviewing process. I've met people that have gotten to some very nice schools regardless of an abysmally low GPA, which is why I am even bothering to construct this post. Is an application to a top 20 school a waste of time and money?

 

[libertyyne]

You have a 520. You are 2 almost 3 SDs below the median of accepted applicant GPAs at some of these schools. What do you think?

 

[Berb]

You have a 520. You are 2 almost 3 SDs below the median of accepted applicant GPAs at some of these schools. What do you think?

As I feared.. Thanks for the quick response. For future reference, can you tell me how you got the data of median accepted applicants?

 

[libertyyne]

As I feared.. Thanks for the quick response. For future reference, can you tell me how you got the data of median accepted applicants?

MSAR. you should purchase it to create a school list. It is worth the price.

 

[hopefuldoctor93]

I've only just recently been returning a ~3.5 quarterly gpa for the past 4 semesters.

My overall GPA is a 3.2, with a science GPA of 3.3.
MCAT of 520.

Three years of research work, ~200 hours of non-clinical volunteering, no shadowing.

I believe I can make an above average personal statement, and am confident in my ability under the interviewing process. I've met people that have gotten to some very nice schools regardless of an abysmally low GPA, which is why I am even bothering to construct this post. Is an application to a top 20 school a waste of time and money?

I don't believe top 20 is possible, but are you going to get any shadowing/clinical exposure hours in? I think any school is going to be hard to get into without any clinical exposure.

 

[wonder12]

You need clinical experience or adcoms will wonder why you don't just do research instead.

 

[Kgizzle]

https://www.aamc.org/download/321494/data/factstablea16.pdf

 

[Berb]

I would take a gap year and get:
another 15-30 credits of great work
200-300 hours at least clinical
200-300 hours at least non clinical (community service/volunteer)
50 hours shadow of primary care
25-75 hours of shadow in others

Thank you for your response, but do I truly require all of this for a reasonable chance of being accepted to a medical school? I don't believe I can take a gap year and still be in good financial shape, unless I was somehow guaranteed that such a formula would grant me an acceptance and therefore justify accruing the associated debt in the long term.

 

[libertyyne]

Thank you for your response, but do I truly require all of this for a reasonable chance of being accepted to a medical school? I don't believe I can take a gap year and still be in good financial shape, unless I was somehow guaranteed that such a formula would grant me an acceptance and therefore justify accruing the associated debt in the long term.

You are taking a loosing bet applying currently.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321508/data/factstablea23.pdf

You need clinical exposure/experience to justify the application. With a 53-47 odds against your numbers, adding the clear deficits of testing your interest would lead to a lot of rejection and money lost plus heart ache.

 

[libertyyne]

You got anything else in your back pocket? URM status? Pub in Nature? Start a Charity? You can still work during a gap year and take credits at night or something.

 

[candbgirl]

Thank you for your response, but do I truly require all of this for a reasonable chance of being accepted to a medical school? I don't believe I can take a gap year and still be in good financial shape, unless I was somehow guaranteed that such a formula would grant me an acceptance and therefore justify accruing the associated debt in the long term.

Maybe not all of it but pretty much most of it. Spend some time reading WAMC threads and see what your competition is doing. By doing some reading you'll also find out applying to Med school is pretty much a crap shoot. People with near perfect applications sometimes don't get accepted. You have a great MCAT but that's pretty much it. Plan a gap year or two and beef up your application if you really want to be a doctor.


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[Geo16]

Perhaps apply to DO schools too after a gap year? 🙂

 

[whatTREEisTHAT?]

Have you looked into SMP programs?

 

[spicynuggetfiend]

I just applied this cycle with stats and EC's almost identical to yours. Feel free to PM me and I can detail my experiences and give you some pointers if you'd like.

 

[efle]

Top 20 no. For med school in general it is probably a disaster to apply right now with zero clinical volunteering or shadowing, unless you've had some other significant clinical exposure not mentioned there.

 

[dr.Breezy]

It depends on what else you got going for you, from experience, it is possible to hit that top 20 even with your gpa.


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[Chromium Surfer]

I would take a gap year and get:
another 15-30 credits of great work
200-300 hours at least clinical
200-300 hours at least non clinical (community service/volunteer)
50 hours shadow of primary care
25-75 hours of shadow in others

Are you recommending the numbers because of OP's lower GPA?

Or do you think the average applicant should be having the following (taking OP's past experiences into account)

400-500 nonclinical volunteering
200-300 clinical volunteering
75-150 hours of shadowing

That seems really high if it's just what an average applicant should be aiming for I thought 150 for nonclinical and clinical was standard with 50 hours of shadowing.

😱

 

[BenignBeignet]

In terms of numbers, your MCAT will equal out the GPA and be fine (might mean you went to a very competitive undergrad, but clearly you retained the information for the MCAT). However your EC's are eh. Research for 3 years better have been pretty damn good research. I'm not really seeing a passion for medicine or healthcare by your actions, nor an understanding of what being a doctor even is (no clinical experience, no shadowing... I personally learned so much from working full time in an ED about what doctors REALLY do. Not just EM physicians, but IM, Cardios, etc.). Sooooo I'd buff that up a bit. But the numbers aren't anything to worry about, great job on the MCAT!

 

[Kgizzle]

Thank you for your response, but do I truly require all of this for a reasonable chance of being accepted to a medical school? I don't believe I can take a gap year and still be in good financial shape, unless I was somehow guaranteed that such a formula would grant me an acceptance and therefore justify accruing the associated debt in the long term.

No shortcuts bruh...

 

[mwsapphire]

^ If the UW grade trend were stronger, ( Like for the past 2/3 quarters making a 3.7+) , wouldn't they still have a chance at T20? Don't some of the top schools really consider grade trends, and have taken applicants with outlying low GPA's because of grade trends ( I'm pretty certain Mimelim made a post like this at some poitn).

 

[Lucca]

^ If the UW grade trend were stronger, ( Like for the past 2/3 quarters making a 3.7+) , wouldn't they still have a chance at T20? Don't some of the top schools really consider grade trends, and have taken applicants with outlying low GPA's because of grade trends ( I'm pretty certain Mimelim made a post like this at some poitn).

Maybe, but you dont get median matriculant numbers in the 3.8s/9s by accepting a lot of people with sub 3.4 cGPAs, if any.

OP, you have a shot with postbacc / SMP + heavy investment into clinical experience. No clinical experience up to this point is a bit perplexing but it is what it is. No clinical experience = hard sell for MD.

 

[Calculator38]

Top 20 no. For med school in general it is probably a disaster to apply right now with zero clinical volunteering or shadowing, unless you've had some other significant clinical exposure not mentioned there.

Have to disagree. I have a 3.35 GPA and am matriculating at a T10 this fall. Similar to OP, I had a 38 MCAT and am non-URM - I took some time and pursued challenging things I was passionate about outside of academics (<5 years from graduation). It's hard, yes, but possible.

 

[hopefuldoctor93]

Have to disagree. I have a 3.35 GPA and am matriculating at a T10 this fall. Similar to OP, I had a 38 MCAT and am non-URM - I took some time and pursued challenging things I was passionate about outside of academics (<5 years from graduation). It's hard, yes, but possible.

I think the experience you got after graduation as well as a strong upward trend (if you had one) helped that though. I don't think that it is impossible to achieve a top 20 school with a low GPA and high MCAT. I think it is going to be extremely hard to get into any school without any clinical experience or shadowing hours.

 

[Calculator38]

I think the experience you got after graduation as well as a strong upward trend (if you had one) helped that though. I don't think that it is impossible to achieve a top 20 school with a low GPA and high MCAT. I think it is going to be extremely hard to get into any school without any clinical experience or shadowing hours.

No, I definitely agree - I had an upward trend and built a compelling story. The point I'm making is more that it isn't impossible for anyone (within reason), you just have to be willing to take difficult steps to do it. And also need to check the rest of your boxes (clinical experience, etc.).

 

[libertyyne]

No, I definitely agree - I had an upward trend and built a compelling story. The point I'm making is more that it isn't impossible for anyone (within reason), you just have to be willing to take difficult steps to do it. And also need to check the rest of your boxes (clinical experience, etc.).

No one said it was impossible. People were saying its highly improbable. Being three standard deviations outside the median means you have something else that compensates for it. But if everyone was successful using that tactic the median would be different.

 

[Calculator38]

No one said it was impossible. People were saying its highly improbable. Being three standard deviations outside the median means you have something else that compensates for it. But if everyone was successful using that tactic the median would be different.

I think we agree more than disagree, but two people said no, it was not possible. That's who I was originally directing my response to.

I don't believe top 20 is possible, but are you going to get any shadowing/clinical exposure hours in? I think any school is going to be hard to get into without any clinical exposure.

Top 20 no. For med school in general it is probably a disaster to apply right now with zero clinical volunteering or shadowing, unless you've had some other significant clinical exposure not mentioned there.

 

[efle]

Have to disagree. I have a 3.35 GPA and am matriculating at a T10 this fall. Similar to OP, I had a 38 MCAT and am non-URM - I took some time and pursued challenging things I was passionate about outside of academics (<5 years from graduation). It's hard, yes, but possible.

So you also had zero clinical exposure, and are going to one of the top private programs?

 

[Calculator38]

So you also had zero clinical exposure, and are going to one of the top private programs?

I didn't say that - I had about 100 volunteering and 30 shadowing. OP gave stats and asked if T20 was possible. It is. It would take time and effort, probably including a gap year/s, but it's certainly possible.

 

[efle]

I didn't say that - I had about 100 volunteering and 30 shadowing. OP gave stats and asked if T20 was possible. It is. It would take time and effort, probably including a gap year, but it's certainly possible.

An app to Top 20s with his stats + ECs was a waste of money. I said so plus in fact med school application in general right now is probably a waste with no clinical time. I get that you want people to know a low GPA isn't a death sentence but the answer to OP, in context, is that his app is DOA

Also have to ask again if your top admit is to a private program?

 

[Calculator38]

An app to Top 20s with his stats + ECs was a waste of money. I said so plus in fact med school application in general right now is probably a waste with no clinical time. I get that you want people to know a low GPA isn't a death sentence but the answer to OP, in context, is that his app is DOA

Also have to ask again if your top admit is to a private program?

Sure, right now it needs more work to be competitive, I agree with that. Clinical exposure + gap year experiences could make it quite strong. And yes, that's more or less what I'm saying, a low GPA doesn't mean rule everything out, just that you need to put in more work in other areas. Also, sorry, I didn't know that you were asking if I was going to a private program, I thought it was just a general clarification - I am. I think like 80% of the top 20 is private.

 

[efle]

Sure, right now it needs more work to be competitive, I agree with that. Clinical exposure + gap year experiences could make it quite strong. And yes, that's more or less what I'm saying, a low GPA doesn't mean rule everything out, just that you need to put in more work in other areas. Also, sorry, I didn't know that you were asking if I was going to a private program, I thought it was just a general clarification - I am. I think like 80% of the top 20 is private.

I think we're understanding each other. I answered OP assuming he was talking about his chances for an app cycle in ~3 months. If his question is "can a low GPA/high MCAT ever become competitive for top programs" the answer from both of us is yes!

I'm curious was your T10 admit from among a few T10/T20 interviews? Or was this an outlying interview?

 

[Calculator38]

Lol, agreed! I had 2 interviews in the top 10 and 4 total within the top 25. I figured I had a more-than-average-ly variable app because of the low GPA so I applied across the board.

 

[efle]

Lol, agreed! I had 2 interviews in the top 10 and 4 total within the top 25. I figured I had a more-than-average-ly variable app because of the low GPA so I applied across the board.

You must have had one hell of a gap year(s) !

 

[efle]

This is the chart you're thinking of

And yeah the SDN hivemind definitely doesn't acknowledge how often people are successful with slightly below-average stats. Though, I imagine in many cases those people are successful at their instate program or have other demographic variables that the typical SDN person may not.

 

[Calculator38]

You must have had one hell of a gap year(s) !

Hah, sort of. I didn't do anything that was exceptionally crazy or beyond the scope of what anyone else is capable of doing, though. I think more centrally I demonstrated commitment/maturity/passion, and was able to write/speak to it persuasively.