Overcoming lackluster clerkship grades?

[PremedSurvivor]

Hi everyone,

Would really appreciate your input! I'm currently finishing up my third year at a top 3 school interested in a competitive residency. Third year started out rough (2 passes, 4 HPs in a F/ P / HP/ H system; waiting on 2 grades. Medicine was an HP). My parents thankfully chose the third year of medical school to divorce and I was essentially the messenger during the messy fallout, which put a strain on my ability to concentrate. The thing is, I want to (briefly) mention this in my personal statement to explain the grades and demonstrate that it wasn't due to a lack of effort/ professionalism.

1) Given that grades are frequently cited as the most important factor, how can I compensate for this? (and CAN I actually compensate for this?)
2) Should I include the family issue in the essay?

Stats:
3rd year grades: 2 Ps, 4 HPs, waiting on 2 grades
AOA: not done at my school
Research: significant (publication in tier-one journal, other pubs, several presentations)
Awards: Lots from undergrad, nothing really from med school
USMLEs: Have not yet taken

Thank you!

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[sunealoneal]

USMLEs: Have not yet taken

Sounds like you still have quite the opportunity to shine on paper.

 

[PremedSurvivor]

Sounds like you still have quite the opportunity to shine on paper.

Thanks for the input Would a decent score be enough to compensate or would I still be screened out?

 

[deleted480308]

Hi everyone,

Would really appreciate your input! I'm currently finishing up my third year at a top 3 school interested in a competitive residency. Third year started out rough (2 passes, 4 HPs in a F/ P / HP/ H system; waiting on 2 grades. Medicine was an HP). My parents thankfully chose the third year of medical school to divorce and I was essentially the messenger during the messy fallout, which put a strain on my ability to concentrate. The thing is, I want to (briefly) mention this in my personal statement to explain the grades and demonstrate that it wasn't due to a lack of effort/ professionalism.

1) Given that grades are frequently cited as the most important factor, how can I compensate for this? (and CAN I actually compensate for this?)
2) Should I include the family issue in the essay?

Stats:
3rd year grades: 2 Ps, 4 HPs, waiting on 2 grades
AOA: not done at my school
Research: significant (publication in tier-one journal, other pubs, several presentations)
Awards: Lots from undergrad, nothing really from med school
USMLEs: Have not yet taken

Thank you!

How have you rotated for 6months with no step score? Is that normal?

 

[Lawpy]

How have you rotated for 6months with no step score? Is that normal?

From what I have read on here and from friends, some schools have students take Step 1 after their third year. Iirc, this happens at some top schools like Penn and Columbia. Not completely sure so experts are welcome to correct me.

 

[deleted480308]

From what I have read on here and from friends, some schools have students take Step 1 after their third year. Iirc, this happens at some top schools like Penn and Columbia.

That seems odd as the score is the biggest rate limiting factor for residency and doing a ton of ortho research year 3 is a waste of time on the chance you pull a 201 step

 

[PremedSurvivor]

That seems odd as the score is the biggest rate limiting factor for residency and doing a ton of ortho research year 3 is a waste of time on the chance you pull a 201 step

There are schools that do this, and mine is one of them. No one in my class has taken Step 1 or Step 2 yet.

So you think the Step scores are more of a rate limiting factor than no Honors in Medicine and generally average 3rd year performance? Genuinely curious, because my comments are very strong and I feel like I can get good letters, but 2Ps and an HP average seems like it would make it challenging to get to a competitive residency.

 

[deleted480308]

There are schools that do this, and mine is one of them. No one in my class has taken Step 1 or Step 2 yet.

So you think the Step scores are more of a rate limiting factor than no Honors in Medicine and generally average 3rd year performance? Genuinely curious, because my comments are very strong and I feel like I can get good letters, but 2Ps and an HP average seems like it would make it challenging to get to a competitive residency.

In competitive arenas, score a 201 and no one will ever even see your clerkship grades

 

[iceman55]

Hi everyone,

Would really appreciate your input! I'm currently finishing up my third year at a top 3 school interested in a competitive residency. Third year started out rough (2 passes, 4 HPs in a F/ P / HP/ H system; waiting on 2 grades. Medicine was an HP). My parents thankfully chose the third year of medical school to divorce and I was essentially the messenger during the messy fallout, which put a strain on my ability to concentrate. The thing is, I want to (briefly) mention this in my personal statement to explain the grades and demonstrate that it wasn't due to a lack of effort/ professionalism.

1) Given that grades are frequently cited as the most important factor, how can I compensate for this? (and CAN I actually compensate for this?)
2) Should I include the family issue in the essay?

Stats:
3rd year grades: 2 Ps, 4 HPs, waiting on 2 grades
AOA: not done at my school
Research: significant (publication in tier-one journal, other pubs, several presentations)
Awards: Lots from undergrad, nothing really from med school
USMLEs: Have not yet taken

Thank you!

Dude you are fine! First of all you come from a Top 3 school, that already is huge. Next your third year grades are fine. IMO, there is no need for an explanation unless you end up failing something. Furthermore, third year grades distribution and format vary so much from school to school that there value ends up dropping in eyes of PD, heard this from multiple PD at my school. And lastly the most important part of your app as yet to be determined. I have never heard of a residency program thats screens based on third year grades, i am not saying they don't exist, but most screen on step1/2. Sure i can see them screening you out if you failed a rotation or something but that is not the case. So just relax, do your best with rest of rotation and do well on boards.


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[agnes5]

Besides third year grades, from what the faculty at my school have told me, where you end up in class rank is the better metric for PDs (because as said previously, grades vary so much from school to school). Do you have any idea of what your class rank would be?

 

[PremedSurvivor]

Besides third year grades, from what the faculty at my school have told me, where you end up in class rank is the better metric for PDs (because as said previously, grades vary so much from school to school). Do you have any idea of what your class rank would be?

That's a great point! We don't have class rank. However, I do know that our Dean's Letters have grade histograms for our clerkships. To be honest, this doesn't seem super useful though, because the majority of students High Pass, so I think my performance will look similar to essentially the rest of the class? Have you heard of something like this before?

 

[PremedSurvivor]

Dude you are fine! First of all you come from a Top 3 school, that already is huge. Next your third year grades are fine. IMO, there is no need for an explanation unless you end up failing something. Furthermore, third year grades distribution and format vary so much from school to school that there value ends up dropping in eyes of PD, heard this from multiple PD at my school. And lastly the most important part of your app as yet to be determined. I have never heard of a residency program thats screens based on third year grades, i am not saying they don't exist, but most screen on step1/2. Sure i can see them screening you out if you failed a rotation or something but that is not the case. So just relax, do your best with rest of rotation and do well on boards.


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Wow, thanks so much! This was a huge relief to hear; I really appreciate the support. Everyone at our school is constantly judging each other's grades, so this was very refreshing to read.

So you don't think I should mention the divorce at all in my PS? Because I DON'T want anyone to think I'm phishing for sympathy; I just want to be clear that I was unable to perform my best at that time, but I did push through.

 

[sammiesings]

Wow, thanks so much! This was a huge relief to hear; I really appreciate the support. Everyone at our school is constantly judging each other's grades, so this was very refreshing to read.

So you don't think I should mention the divorce at all in my PS? Because I DON'T want anyone to think I'm phishing for sympathy; I just want to be clear that I was unable to perform my best at that time, but I did push through.

Sounds like it'd be read as an excuse tbh.

 

[Redpancreas]

Small dent but you're in excellent shape especially coming from such a prestigious school. Get a strong Step 1/2CK. Then find influential people to write strong letters for you and make sure your interviews and residency interactions are STRONG. The human element in selection is real.

 

[RogueBanana]

Wasn't the P/F system put in place to avoid this exact situation?

 

[Redpancreas]

Wasn't the P/F system put in place to avoid this exact situation?

No. P/F is suggested for basic science grades because we shouldn't have to stress about grades in things that don't affect how good of residents we'll be. It's material to just master. Plus it probably festers a better class camaraderie

P/F for rotations would actually be detrimental in my opinion because so many schools use it and residents probably want to see some critical assessment of your performance in clinical rotations which is basically Jr. Residency. This sounds good in theory, but in practice there's too much subjective criteria because no one evaluating you has the time to sit and figure out what you know.


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[RogueBanana]

No. P/F is suggested for basic science grades because we shouldn't have to stress about grades in things that don't affect how good of residents we'll be. It's material to just master. Plus it probably festers a better class camaraderie

P/F for rotations would actually be detrimental in my opinion because so many schools use it and residents probably want to see some critical assessment of your performance in clinical rotations which is basically Jr. Residency. This sounds good in theory, but in practice there's too much subjective criteria because no one evaluating you has the time to sit and figure out what you know.


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Oh my bad I didn't see that this was 3rd year. You are correct.

 

[PremedSurvivor]

Sounds like it'd be read as an excuse tbh.

Thank you for your honesty! That's what I'm concerned about. Good to know

 

[PremedSurvivor]

Small dent but you're in excellent shape especially coming from such a prestigious school. Get a strong Step 1/2CK. Then find influential people to write strong letters for you and make sure your interviews and residency interactions are STRONG. The human element in selection is real.

Thank you for the advice! You're right; I've heard connections are huge in competitive fields. I will focus on the license exams and forming connections, then!

 

[operaman]

Yes your clerkship grades will will be noticed and not in a good way, but these are not the only things on your application. I assume you haven't done surgery yet since that's the other big one along with IM. If so, do your best to honor that sucker. Having no honors at all in clerkships is a red flag. Clerkship grades tend to be more a reflection of how much people like you, so having no honors would make me wonder if you have trouble getting along well with people, working on a team, etc.

Those above are right on in saying that your step 1 score will be the deciding factor.

The reality is that everything matters and everything gets looked at together. You're not hosed by any one blemish, but don't let the blemishes collect. Most people who struggle with one thing will struggle with others. The low grades tend to be accompanied by low steps, sub average research, minimal ECs, etc. These people tend to have mediocre letters as well. Do whatever you can to honor everything from now on, do well on steps, etc. Make the clerkship grades your only blemish.

And for the love of all things holy don't waste your PS on explaining your grades. It sucks you had some family drama but honestly nobody else will care what your excuse is. They'll see sub par grades followed by a statement that clearly shows lack of insight and tries to excuse poor performance by explaining, in detail, how you don't perform well when stressed and under pressure.

 

[OnePunchBiopsy]

Step 1 & 2, Away Rotation Performance, Letters of Rec >>>3rd year grades >>>>>>>>>>>> Preclinical Grades

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I'm not so sure the advice on this thread is completely accurate. Although, yes, your step scores will be very important. It depends upon what you mean by "competitive residency". Do you mean a competitive field, like Ortho or Neurosurgery? In that case, your Step 1/2 + evals in these fields (plus your GS clerkship) will be most important. If you mean IM @ MGH, then getting a Pass in your IM clerkship is going to be a big problem. It also depends upon what "Pass" means -- at some schools, 85% of people get pass. At others, it's 5%.

 

[OnePunchBiopsy]

At my medical school, the surgeons are old school and never honor anyone, even if they are planning to go into surgery.

To honor you have to make at least 90/100 on a "subjective" assessment that your attending fills out and turns in.

What was my grade? A freakin' 89.97, with no rounding I might add. I didn't even know that was possible on a survey with only 10 questions. (I'm not bitter at all, lol)

Having just matched into GS, trust me when I say that honoring surgery is not a must for landing a stellar residency.

 

[sammiesings]

LOL FALSE. I wish I went to your med school for handing out honors like candy because you "got along" with the team

Uh? What? That was an indication of what's necessary to honor a clerkship not solely the criteria for AOA. If you can't get along with the team, aren't pleasant etc, you're not going to honor the clerkship. The subjectivity of these grades that people complain about really comes down to the fact that some people *cough cough* are socially less with it than others.

Eta: because I don't think you'll get what I'm saying without this clarifying point: getting along with people and being a low performer won't get you honors, but not getting along with people will keep you from getting honors no matter how well you do on the shelf.

 

[Docbel]

Uh? What? That was an indication of what's necessary to honor a clerkship not solely the criteria for AOA. If you can't get along with the team, aren't pleasant etc, you're not going to honor the clerkship. The subjectivity of these grades that people complain about really comes down to the fact that some people *cough cough* are socially less with it than others.

Eta: because I don't think you'll get what I'm saying without this clarifying point: getting along with people and being a low performer won't get you honors, but not getting along with people will keep you from getting honors no matter how well you do on the shelf.

You can get along with the team, perform well, and still not honor your eval. Lets not pretend this is not a reality of clincal evals

 

[Psai]

LOL FALSE. I wish I went to your med school for handing out honors like candy because you "got along" with the team

That's not even close to a reply to what he said. He said nothing about his medical school's grading system. He said that it's a red flag if you don't honor at least one clerkship because it means you're among the people who can't get along with your team. One grade might be an anomaly. But multiple grades are a pattern. You might be bad at tests too but even then you won't be making it into ent.

 

[sammiesings]

You can get along with the team, perform well, and still not honor your eval. Lets not pretend this is not a reality of clincal evals

If you can't honor a single clerkship, it's you not the system

 

[Affiche]

Besides third year grades, from what the faculty at my school have told me, where you end up in class rank is the better metric for PDs (because as said previously, grades vary so much from school to school). Do you have any idea of what your class rank would be?

I have literally never heard of anyone saying that class rank > clinical grades.

 

[SunsFun]

If you can't honor a single clerkship, it's you not the system

How many clerkships have you honored so far?


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