"overtime" pay for student researchers?

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bayer

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it's my first week doing summer research full-time and I've been asked to come in on both Saturday and Sunday probably for several hours each day. I'm supposed to be doing 40 hours/week (8 hours a day, M-F) but that doesn't count weekends. if this continues to be a trend, would it be appropriate to ask if there's overtime pay?

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If you're paid by the hour, then I think you can at least charge these extra hours, even if it's not for overtime.

If it's a lump sum then this might be harder to negotiate, but you can probably check with the business office of your department?
 
Well, as stupid and inappropriate as the situation is, it might hurt your potential LORs and opportunity to publish. Of course it's appropriate to ask for overtime, or to tell them "No, sorry, I have plans. Can't come in." Will that keep someone from being petty and spiteful? Nope...
 
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If you're paid by the hour, then I think you can at least charge these extra hours, even if it's not for overtime.

If it's a lump sum then this might be harder to negotiate, but you can probably check with the business office of your department?

asking my PI for clarification whether the pay is hourly or lump sump is a good way to figure out if there's OT pay, I think. I think that's a good idea. the department is rad onc, and I'm just a lowly undergrad so I have no idea who to contact.

Well, as stupid and inappropriate as the situation is, it might hurt your potential LORs and opportunity to publish. Of course it's appropriate to ask for overtime, or to tell them "No, sorry, I have plans. Can't come in." Will that keep someone from being petty and spiteful? Nope...

yeah, there are several problems. my PI thinks highly of me possibly because the postdoc I work with says I'm good. the same postdoc asked me to come in sat & sun. I will probably ask them both for recs next year (I just finished soph year). my PI says he wants to give me one co-author and one first author, so maybe this is the price I have to pay. I already did about 12 hours of research per week this past semester unpaid.
 
From my experience doing full-time research, if you're salaried-then there's no overtime pay. It's more like some weeks you might actually work less than 40 hours and some weeks more. If it's hourly pay, then you might consider it, but you should probably also heed what TheProwler says
 
Yeah I'm coming to the close of my gap year as a research assistant in a lab at a large university and I haven't gotten a dime of overtime OR regular time pay for the hours I work over 40/week (I'm paid hourly). I typically put in around 50 a week, so basically work for free 10 hrs a week. I was basically told in passing by my PI during my first week something like "oh yeah, I can't pay overtime so just put 40 hrs on your timesheet, but if you work more it will help me and it will help you." I kind if just left it at that and never looked back. I still question it now and then when I'm there for 11 hrs straight but at this point there's not much I can do with only 3 weeks left on the job.
 
Yeah I'm coming to the close of my gap year as a research assistant in a lab at a large university and I haven't gotten a dime of overtime OR regular time pay for the hours I work over 40/week (I'm paid hourly). I typically put in around 50 a week, so basically work for free 10 hrs a week. I was basically told in passing by my PI during my first week something like "oh yeah, I can't pay overtime so just put 40 hrs on your timesheet, but if you work more it will help me and it will help you." I kind if just left it at that and never looked back. I still question it now and then when I'm there for 11 hrs straight but at this point there's not much I can do with only 3 weeks left on the job.

+1 except I put in a lot more than 50 hours some weeks. I did it more-so because I loved my work and was somewhat addicted to my research ;) The pay was honestly a bonus.

It's really up to you. Is your weekend sacred ground or will you waste that time on something useless. I would still bill the hours if you haven't hit 40. I mean if you worked at a grocery store on weekends, you aren't getting paid overtime just because of the day it falls on (except a few places like costco).
 
Well, as stupid and inappropriate as the situation is, it might hurt your potential LORs and opportunity to publish. Of course it's appropriate to ask for overtime, or to tell them "No, sorry, I have plans. Can't come in." Will that keep someone from being petty and spiteful? Nope...

I disagree. Research positions are often paid "by the hour", because it is easier to keep track of and that is how most systems are setup. But, that isn't how research works. If you are doing research, you should be measuring productivity, not how much money you are making. I'm not saying that undergrads shouldn't get paid, but you are getting a lot more out of this experience than money and sometimes that requires that you put in the hours.
 
asking my PI for clarification whether the pay is hourly or lump sump is a good way to figure out if there's OT pay, I think. I think that's a good idea. the department is rad onc, and I'm just a lowly undergrad so I have no idea who to contact.



yeah, there are several problems. my PI thinks highly of me possibly because the postdoc I work with says I'm good. the same postdoc asked me to come in sat & sun. I will probably ask them both for recs next year (I just finished soph year). my PI says he wants to give me one co-author and one first author, so maybe this is the price I have to pay. I already did about 12 hours of research per week this past semester unpaid.

If there was a possibility of co-authorship and a first author pub, I would come in overtime each week happily without any thought of pay.
 
it's my first week doing summer research full-time and I've been asked to come in on both Saturday and Sunday probably for several hours each day. I'm supposed to be doing 40 hours/week (8 hours a day, M-F) but that doesn't count weekends. if this continues to be a trend, would it be appropriate to ask if there's overtime pay?

rofl I work about 100 hours a week and am only paid for 40....research pays very little my dear friend.

Oh and during the school year I do 60 hours and am paid only for 10. It's hard to control time in lab...
 
I think its completely different when you are doing research compared to a regular full time lab-tech.

The tech's in my lab, floated around 3 labs washing/autoclaving, making sure all the orders are in, kept up stock and different cell lines. They are paid a set hourly amount and it's no problem, if they had to come in for more time they get paid more.

On the other-hand as a research assistant (and even more if you are an undergrad) when you are in a learning experience, doing a project, trying to get on a paper, and also trying to get a letter - I'm not sure if it's a great idea. I almost think it's expected by almost all PI's for you to just do your projects and help your supervisor (in this case the post-doc) as if you were a salaried employee, even though it's actually "hourly" for convenience.

Even when I was doing my research year at HMS I got paid "40 hours a week," but easily averaged 60+ hours every week with only had 2-3 full days off a month. I ended up getting a great letter though.
 
rofl I work about 100 hours a week and am only paid for 40....research pays very little my dear friend.

Oh and during the school year I do 60 hours and am paid only for 10. It's hard to control time in lab...

There is an approximately 0.0001% chance that your post isn't complete hyperbole. So you work 14 hours per day, every single day of the week including weekends, are paid for 40% of those hours, and are completely fine with that. Um... Okay? :rolleyes:
 
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I'm just sort of laughing at this. I was at a training this past afternoon at my university to prepare us all as we go out to our summer research experiences/REUs/other programs. It was openly discussed that we will all be working more than we will be paid for, and that we cannot bill for overtime because there's no money to pay it: if we want the awesome outcome of a poster presentation, we have to put in a set amount of work, but they can only pay us for part of that work.

This was in no way unexpected to me, because summer research programs are really more about preparing people for careers in academia than in medicine, and it is totally normal (I'm not saying universal) for people to work far more hours than they're actually paid for. My dad's a professor, I know many academics, and it's just life - in research, people expect to be overworked and underpaid, and they don't have the end of residency to look forward to in the same way.

So frankly I think asking for overtime is just going to get you laughed at. The comment above about you're being treated as if you were salaried, even though you're paid hourly for convenience, is completely spot on. You're being trained as a junior colleague, and part of life as an ambitious future academic is working like a dog for little pay for a substantial part of your career.
 
So frankly I think asking for overtime is just going to get you laughed at.

this. please dont ask for overtime op. you are a paperweight to them for the first month or so. I have never heard another undergraduate ask for overtime. there's a very good chance people in the lab will think less of you
 
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I disagree. Research positions are often paid "by the hour", because it is easier to keep track of and that is how most systems are setup. But, that isn't how research works. If you are doing research, you should be measuring productivity, not how much money you are making. I'm not saying that undergrads shouldn't get paid, but you are getting a lot more out of this experience than money and sometimes that requires that you put in the hours.
If he's supposed to be paid hourly, then he should be paid hourly. Anything other than that is trying to steal free labor from him, knowing that he'll be reluctant to say anything, which is victimization. I'm about to work on my research on a Saturday, with no money toward me, but it's my own personal project, and I'm using it to further my career. If someone were telling me to come in and work on it, I would want to be paid either directly (hourly) or indirectly (salary).
 
it's my first week doing summer research full-time and I've been asked to come in on both Saturday and Sunday probably for several hours each day. I'm supposed to be doing 40 hours/week (8 hours a day, M-F) but that doesn't count weekends. if this continues to be a trend, would it be appropriate to ask if there's overtime pay?

i didn't read other comments. but do you have to clock-in and clock-out? If that's the case, you have to play around with hours during the normal work week so you don't do go over 40 hours on saturday and sunday. When I have to work on Saturday and Sunday, I only work like 6-7 hours/day M-F. So I would come in later in the morning than usual on somedays M-F.

If you don't have to clock-in/clock-out, you should make sure with your supervisor if it's okay for you to leave early/come in later on somedays to accommodate your weekends responsibility.

Legally, they are supposed to give you overtime pay after 40 hours/week.
 
There is an approximately 0.0001% chance that your post isn't complete hyperbole. So you work 14 hours per day, every single day of the week including weekends, are paid for 40% of those hours, and are completely fine with that. Um... Okay? :rolleyes:

Lol, yes? I'm really into my research and really like my lab. I've slept over at lab many times. This isn't uncommon at my university.

I wouldn't suggest it, it's kind of unhealthy, but I'm just saying its normal to be underpaid. I wish I was paid more but I think I'm getting a lot more than money from this experience.
 
If he's supposed to be paid hourly, then he should be paid hourly. Anything other than that is trying to steal free labor from him, knowing that he'll be reluctant to say anything, which is victimization. I'm about to work on my research on a Saturday, with no money toward me, but it's my own personal project, and I'm using it to further my career. If someone were telling me to come in and work on it, I would want to be paid either directly (hourly) or indirectly (salary).

*shrug* I worked during the summer 70-80 hrs/week while "salaried". I guess we have different perspectives on undergrad research. I would have been pissed if you told me to go home while I was working because I would "go over hours". If there is work to do, then there is work to do. If you see it as a salaried job, then don't show up on weekends or work less during the week. Just realize that you are hurting yourself from a 'research' perspective more than you are hurting the lab.

While you can't put in what God has left out, a lot of productivity is putting in the hours.
 
If he's supposed to be paid hourly, then he should be paid hourly. Anything other than that is trying to steal free labor from him, knowing that he'll be reluctant to say anything, which is victimization. I'm about to work on my research on a Saturday, with no money toward me, but it's my own personal project, and I'm using it to further my career. If someone were telling me to come in and work on it, I would want to be paid either directly (hourly) or indirectly (salary).

Right, but undergrad research furthers undergrads' careers. If I want to be able to present a poster at a conference at the end of this summer, I will have to put in more than 40 hours of work a week; it's unfortunate that I'm only getting funded to a 40 hour level, but the benefits of working above that are sufficient that I am happy to work overtime without pay.

I do not feel this situation is analogous to the year when I'd dropped out of school and was working fast food, and was ordered by my manager to clock out and continue working, so he could avoid paying overtime. In that case, there was no possible benefit to me of continuing to work without pay, except avoiding (totally illegal) punishments like having my hours cut. On the other hand, here there are many benefits to continuing to work, such as the ability to get a tangible product at the end: a poster, a presentation at a conference, a good letter of recommendation, etc etc.
 
Right, but undergrad research furthers undergrads' careers. If I want to be able to present a poster at a conference at the end of this summer, I will have to put in more than 40 hours of work a week; it's unfortunate that I'm only getting funded to a 40 hour level, but the benefits of working above that are sufficient that I am happy to work overtime without pay.
If you are paid to do research, then you should be paid to do research.

If you are the researcher, and you are doing this to further your own means, and you have been funded/given a stipend for a dollar amount, then yes, you work to achieve your own goals and are happy for what you get. I've worked in two labs and have my own project going on now, and I've never been paid for any of it.


The OP said he was told to come in on the weekend, not that he has been coming in to get stuff done.
 
If you are paid to do research, then you should be paid to do research.

If you are the researcher, and you are doing this to further your own means, and you have been funded/given a stipend for a dollar amount, then yes, you work to achieve your own goals and are happy for what you get. I've worked in two labs and have my own project going on now, and I've never been paid for any of it.


The OP said he was told to come in on the weekend, not that he has been coming in to get stuff done.

Fair point.
 
I wouldn't ask for OT unless you need it

In my experience your are being paid to get the work done regardless of th number of hours. Such that if you can do all the work in 30 hours/week then the PI will be fine with you working only 30 and taking home your agreed salary. But its rare that you can get it done in that time frame
 
i haven't heard of being paid overtime
it's not like the 40 hours you're there are going to be solid on your feet all day, exhausted at the end of the day kind of work
there's a lot of downtime when you're running a reaction or doing a gel, growing cells, etc.
 
My year off salary was for 40 hours a week. I worked 80+ every week (in fact I'm on vacation right now and still writing a paper) and have been able to publish 11 times, not counting all of the potential pubs that I'll be able to work on based on unused data thus far. If you look at your salary as a stipend to reduce the burden of a year off rather than payment for services rendered, you'll be much happier with the situation.

That being said, if you aren't being put on papers/abstracts, are not getting good exposure to higher ups, and are being treated just like a lab rat, then yeah I wouldn't work a minute over 40.
 
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