P/F Change to be applied to class of 2023 across the board! Pleas Read Until The End

[Azmkv]

Disclaimer - I am not the author of this thread. With the permission of the original author u/Neuro_Sanctions, I am just sharing this post I read on the Reddit to ensure more people (especially class of 2023) acknowledge the challenges we maybe facing shortly:


A USMLE rep told me on the phone today that they are currently planning to mask all scores for class of 2023 during residency applications, even if you take it before the change and receive a score. This is intended to ease the transition by not having a divided class. The decision is not official but "this is most likely what they are going to do." She also explained that they are still going to talk to program directors and get their input.

Here is what I said and what we can do:

I explained to her that I was accepted to more than one school and that I made my decision with an understanding of the precedent and scoring policy at that time. If I had known about this I would have made a very different decision for a multitude of reasons. I personally know multiple other students in the same boat. I asked her if she would pass on a message up the ladder and she said yes.

I asked her to urge the decision makers to consider making this decision for the class of 2024 so that they can make informed decisions and so that it won't change the rules of the game for people who are already 25% through. She responded by saying that no matter when they make the decision it will be inconvenient for people. I said, "Yes but by shifting it to class of 2024 you can allow students to make an informed decision about their school choice by taking all factors into account and make the transition smoother by not changing it mid way through for people who are already in school. Moreover, many schools will be changing their curriculum for the preclinical years to adapt which the class of 2023 will not be able to benefit from.

She said understood and that she was going to pass up my concerns and that they do listen. I believe this since they retracted their announcement to shorten the exam by 80 questions just days after making it official based on feedback from medical students who were concerned about the implications of such a policy.

If you are a member of class of 2023 or just have a vested interest I urge you to call and email. Don't bother complaining about the fact that it is P/F, but rather urge them to consider not retroactively masking scores for people who take it before the change and/or to push it to class of 2024 so they can make informed decisions, so that it will not effect those who made choices based on criteria that will no longer apply.

Please be respectful and articulate as that is the best way to be listened to. Hopefully enough of us can convince them there are better ways to make the transition.

Contact info here:

Telephone: (215) 590-9700

Fax: (215) 590-9460

E-mail: [email protected]

**Got word email might not be working, you can send an email through their website here: United States Medical Licensing Examination | Contact

Take to twitter so that multiple people can see it and allow it to snowball: u/TheUSMLE

Deans have the USMLE's ear. Email your deans, urge them to consider these issues and to reach out as well.

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[madiso30]

This career is whack.

 

[zNoodlez]

Disclaimer - I am not the author of this thread. With the permission of the original author u/Neuro_Sanctions, I am just sharing this post I read on the Reddit so ensure more people (especially class of 2023) acknowledge the challenges we maybe facing shortly:


A USMLE rep told me on the phone today that they are currently planning to mask all scores for class of 2023 during residency applications, even if you take it before the change and receive a score. This is intended to ease the transition by not having a divided class. The decision is not official but "this is most likely what they are going to do." She also explained that they are still going to talk to program directors and get their input.

Here is what I said and what we can do:

I explained to her that I was accepted to more than one school and that I made my decision with an understanding of the precedent and scoring policy at that time. If I had known about this I would have made a very different decision for a multitude of reasons. I personally know multiple other students in the same boat. I asked her if she would pass on a message up the ladder and she said yes.

I asked her to urge the decision makers to consider making this decision for the class of 2024 so that they can make informed decisions and so that it won't change the rules of the game for people who are already 25% through. She responded by saying that no matter when they make the decision it will be inconvenient for people. I said, "Yes but by shifting it to class of 2024 you can allow students to make an informed decision about their school choice by taking all factors into account and make the transition smoother by not changing it mid way through for people who are already in school. Moreover, many schools will be changing their curriculum for the preclinical years to adapt which the class of 2023 will not be able to benefit from.

She said understood and that she was going to pass up my concerns and that they do listen. I believe this since they retracted their announcement to shorten the exam by 80 questions just days after making it official based on feedback from medical students who were concerned about the implications of such a policy.

If you are a member of class of 2023 or just have a vested interest I urge you to call and email. Don't bother complaining about the fact that it is P/F, but rather urge them to consider not retroactively masking scores for people who take it before the change and/or to push it to class of 2024 so they can make informed decisions, so that it will not effect those who made choices based on criteria that will no longer apply.

Please be respectful and articulate as that is the best way to be listened to. Hopefully enough of us can convince them there are better ways to make the transition.

Contact info here:

Telephone: (215) 590-9700

Fax: (215) 590-9460

E-mail: [email protected]

**Got word email might not be working, you can send an email through their website here: United States Medical Licensing Examination | Contact

Take to twitter so that multiple people can see it and allow it to snowball: u/TheUSMLE

Deans have the USMLE's ear. Email your deans, urge them to consider these issues and to reach out as well.

Even c/o 2024 was caught off guard by this decision since they dropped in right in the middle of the application cycle for c/o 2024. There is no way schools would be able to change their curriculum for the incoming class of 2024. The best thing they could have done is making this change in 2023/24 when the class of 2025/2026 will be taking Step 1. That would give schools more/enough time to tweak their curriculums imo. Now they are considering make it P/F for c/o 2023 is outrageous.

 

[DPTinthemaking15]

Before med school: Matching into a competitive specialty as a DO student will be tough, but at least I can rely on the USMLE.

Now:

 

[M&L]

Guys, i am an MD student (class 2023), and so many of us are so stressed out, and i kept thinking about you guys, - those of you who were planning to take step to match into an MD residency. I just wanted to say how sorry i am that all this is happening. I cannot even imagine how stressful it must be.

 

[deleted859689]

Guys, i am an MD student (class 2023), and so many of us are so stressed out, and i kept thinking about you guys, - those of you who were planning to take step to match into an MD residency. I just wanted to say how sorry i am that all this is happening. I cannot even imagine how stressful it must be.

Thanks my dude. Step 2 will save us. Hopefully.

 

[M&L]

Thanks my dude. Step 2 will save us. Hopefully.

If they don’t make it p/f too .

 

[M&L]

If they don’t make it p/f too .

Yeah I really hope they won’t. We were speculating about it on the other forum and I got upset ((. I can’t even imagine how heartbroken must IMGs be

 

[Ho0v-man]

There are some MD schools (<20) that have been trying to get higher average scores and less failures by having their students take USMLE Step 1 in the third year after core clerkship rotations. These schools can just as easily let their students take USMLE Step 1 after the second year like everybody else. Masking scores to appease this minority of schools (e.g. Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Duke) would be a terrible decision imo. The students of these elite schools already get the benefit of "school reputation".

Where do you think the loudest cheers for p/f is coming from?

 

[Sky138]

Where do you think the loudest cheers for p/f is coming from?

Definitely the T20s and probably the state schools with home residencies since they can be a smidge lower in step scores and they have their home departments to back up their students.

 

[slowthai]

Where do you think the loudest cheers for p/f is coming from?

It's disgusting. The rich get richer.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Advocate for yourselves. If I was c/o 2023 and below, I'd be getting my student government to write a letter and have everyone from your class sign it. This is something that shouldn't take place until c/o 2024 the earliest in my opinion, because the whole mess of people taking research years and stuff would pretty much be bypassed. C/o 2025 would be even better. 2023 is too early, there are too many people already committed to research years or fellowships who went from 2022 to 2023 and will be taking Step this summer-- so their score will become P/F after grinding for 2 years? Insane.

 

[DameJulie]

For DO students, does this mean we focus on COMLEX now, and take still take USMLE for that P so we can take Step 2 CK?

 

[slowthai]

For DO students, does this mean we focus on COMLEX now, and take still take USMLE for that P so we can take Step 2 CK?

The NBME does not require step 1 before CK, but PDs may require a passed step 1. So the answer is, I don't know lol. Personally, I would still take step 1 just in case. It will be even more stupidly expensive than it is now because you're taking 6 licensing exams instead of 5.

 

[Neopolymath]

The NBME does not require step 1 before CK, but PDs may require a passed step 1. So the answer is, I don't know lol. Personally, I would still take step 1 just in case. It will be even more stupidly expensive than it is now because you're taking 6 licensing exams instead of 5.

Most DO's that take step 1 take CK fyi. In fact I know people in the past, before rule changes, that didn't take step 1 but took CK when they realized they should have taken step 1 but got tricked by their school or whatever.

It's probably very uncommon to take step 1 and then not take CK. I would call that stupid to be frank.

 

[scoopdaboop]

It’s funny they say they listen to people when likely most medical students have filled their emails with disappointment yet they still will do it anyways. It’s inevitable they already made up their mind to screw over future physicians because they’re sad sacks

 

[El-Rami]

Has there been any movement to make COMLEX Level 1 P/F?

 

[slowthai]

Most DO's that take step 1 take CK fyi. In fact I know people in the past, before rule changes, that didn't take step 1 but took CK when they realized they should have taken step 1 but got tricked by their school or whatever.

It's probably very uncommon to take step 1 and then not take CK. I would call that stupid to be frank.

Really? I had no idea. I was under the impression that people only took CK if they underperformed on step 1. Guess I was wrong

 

[Neopolymath]

Really? I had no idea. I was under the impression that people only took CK if they underperformed on step 1. Guess I was wrong

Yeah, plan on taking it!

 

[Prehealth1011]

Really? I had no idea. I was under the impression that people only took CK if they underperformed on step 1. Guess I was wrong

Most of us are taking it. Might as well. People either take all steps (minus CS/step 3) or none at all. Lot of us even look forward to taking step exams. The OMM, random legal $hit, ethics that litter our exams gets old real quick.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Most DO's that take step 1 take CK fyi. In fact I know people in the past, before rule changes, that didn't take step 1 but took CK when they realized they should have taken step 1 but got tricked by their school or whatever.

It's probably very uncommon to take step 1 and then not take CK. I would call that stupid to be frank.

Yeah I’ve been surprised reading on here that most DOs don’t take step 2 bc I’ve anecdotally seen more taking step 2 only than step 1 only. It’s usually when people are getting denied for auditions left and right due to lack of a step score that they go for step 2 hoping that the same doesn’t happen for interviews.

 

[WhereMyLiberalsAt]

Bro F$@& this 2020 BS! It’s never ending!

 

[Billroth_III]

I'll keep grinding through UFAPS and Zanki regardless. Worst case scenario is I study my a$$ off and hopefully have good long term retention of everything

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

The Sheriff of Sodium does not think this actually happened. In the NBME webinar with SOMA the NBME representative was asked what they are going to do and his exact answer was, "we don't know" and then admitted that it was one of those things that wasn't fully anticipated before they implemented the change.

 

[slowthai]

The Sheriff of Sodium does not think this actually happened. In the NBME webinar with SOMA the NBME representative was asked what they are going to do and his exact answer was, "we don't know" and then admitted that it was one of those things that wasn't fully anticipated before they implemented the change.

But even granting that it didn't happen, someone called a USMLE rep and they hemmed and hawed, refusing to confirm or deny the accusations. Know what that screams to me? GUILTY. Lol. The clincher was that she said there'll be an announcement made this week. If I'm wrong, I'll take back everything I've said about the NBME...no I won't

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

But even granting that it didn't happen, someone called a USMLE rep and they hemmed and hawed, refusing to confirm or deny the accusations. Know what that screams to me? GUILTY. Lol. The clincher was that she said there'll be an announcement made this week. If I'm wrong, I'll take back everything I've said about the NBME...no I won't

It just seems very far fetched to me they would tell random callers such a big announcement. In Carmody I trust.

 

[deleted1055769]

I am class of 2024, I am still feeling optimistic that the step P/F will not happen to our class, it might be implemented to the classes below us. With covid, the schools need time to adjust the curriculum, so it will not even happen to class of 2024. I am hoping that this Reddit post is just a fake rumor.

 

[Fat_Albert]

I am class of 2024, I am still feeling optimistic that the step P/F will not happen to our class, it might be implemented to the classes below us. With covid, the schools need time to adjust the curriculum, so it will not even happen to class of 2024. I am hoping that this Reddit post is just a fake rumor.

I’ll happen to your class for sure

 

[slowthai]

The only reason they called a usmle rep is because there was a zoom meeting the day prior and usmle ppl were answering questions from students and one of them asked about c/o 23. The likely scenario the guy described is they mask everyone’s score and this led to multiple ppl calling and the reps sayin the same thing but then once too many ppl started calling they just started to say no comment

I know, I've been following this closely since the first soma meeting.

 

[Fat_Albert]

I know, I've been following this closely since the first soma meeting.

My bad I accidentally replied to you

 

[risus_sardonicus]

I am class of 2024, I am still feeling optimistic that the step P/F will not happen to our class, it might be implemented to the classes below us. With covid, the schools need time to adjust the curriculum, so it will not even happen to class of 2024. I am hoping that this Reddit post is just a fake rumor.

Lol. Ignorance is bliss.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN

 

[texan2016]

Guys, i am an MD student (class 2023), and so many of us are so stressed out, and i kept thinking about you guys, - those of you who were planning to take step to match into an MD residency. I just wanted to say how sorry i am that all this is happening. I cannot even imagine how stressful it must be.

And a lot of us may have done SMPs or reapplied, changing the rules at half time is kinda unfair

 

[FutureDoctor5000]

And a lot of us may have done SMPs or reapplied, changing the rules at half time is kinda unfair

That seems very extreme, keep in mind that many MD programs outside of the very hyper competitive specialties do accept comlex, I know of many upper classmen including from several years ago who got into a solid university IM prorgam with just comlex, it’s more common than Sdn makes you think, and obviously the DO programs who made the acgme transition will still consider DO’s and comlex across all specialties. It sucks that they are making a change midway in your medical school career but it just changes the game and puts more emphasis on step 2 and your actual rotations and letters, do aways and get get good letters, get involved in research and volunteer to make your self stand out, and as I said step 2 will become king, so focus on that, I would not advise anyone to give up a DO acceptance and do 1-2 years of and SMP for the hope of an MD acceptance when they have a sure fire DO acceptance, DO school is getting more competitive each year and if you mess up on your SMP you might not even have that DO acceptance in a few years. even if they want something hyper competitive it can still be done the DO route and if you want something mid or less competitive the step 1 p/f change will have very little Impact on your ability to match, keep in mind that the p/f change also affects MD schools, yes the top 20 benefit but unless you can for sure get into a top 20 MD school it will make very little difference. It changes the game a bit but still keeps you in the game.

 

[deleted1055769]

For class of 2024, at least the comlex will still be scored right? Hope they don't change that one too...

 

[Med.School.Hopeful]

Incoming MS1 here. Since Step 1 will most likely be P/F should we not put so much effort into studying step 1 or does it help for step 2?

I know in the past people have sacrificed some of their preclinical grades in favor of studying for step (this has been especially true for schools whose curriculum is not boards focused).

Would it be better to focus on preclinical grades more now instead? My school gives letter grades and class rank.

 

[texan2016]

Incoming MS1 here. Since Step 1 will most likely be P/F should we not put so much effort into studying step 1 or does it help for step 2?

I know in the past people have sacrificed some of their preclinical grades in favor of studying for step (this has been especially true for schools whose curriculum is not boards focused).

Would it be better to focus on preclinical grades more now instead? My school gives letter grades and class rank.

At a lot of schools most of your class rank comes from rotations. At my school rotations are a buttload of units compared to years 1 and 2 . And step 2 has a lot of correlation to step 1 so i'm planning on the step grind

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Incoming MS1 here. Since Step 1 will most likely be P/F should we not put so much effort into studying step 1 or does it help for step 2?

I know in the past people have sacrificed some of their preclinical grades in favor of studying for step (this has been especially true for schools whose curriculum is not boards focused).

Would it be better to focus on preclinical grades more now instead? My school gives letter grades and class rank.

People need to realize Step 1 is a beast of an exam and youre not guaranteed to pass just because you passed your first 2 years of school. Just passing takes considerable effort and dedication

 

[Mass Effect]

Even c/o 2024 was caught off guard by this decision since they dropped in right in the middle of the application cycle for c/o 2024. There is no way schools would be able to change their curriculum for the incoming class of 2024. The best thing they could have done is making this change in 2023/24 when the class of 2025/2026 will be taking Step 1. That would give schools more/enough time to tweak their curriculums imo. Now they are considering make it P/F for c/o 2023 is outrageous.

I mean, schools tailoring curriculum TO the exam is one of the reasons it's been changed to P/F.

I do agree it's crappy for them to spring it on the Class of 2023 though.

 

[zNoodlez]

I mean, schools tailoring curriculum TO the exam is one of the reasons it's been changed to P/F.

I do agree it's crappy for them to spring it on the Class of 2023 though.

That's why you need some time between saying "hey I see that you guys are tailoring your school curriculum to STEP 1, so we will make it P/F" to " when you actually implementing it". C/O 2024 will not have that "time", we are basically entering 1st year pre-clinical with the same curriculum from many years past, and now the rule has changed but the process of training us players hasn't. Making it P/F for c/o 2023 is really really really crappy.

 

[zNoodlez]

United States Medical Licensing Examination | Announcements

The United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) assesses a physician's ability to apply knowledge, concepts, and principles, and to demonstrate fundamental patient-centered skills, that are important in health and disease.

usmle.org

announcement from today. I do not see any new information that wasn't previously stated

I have a feeling that medical schools were informed about this change way before the public.

 

[Azmkv]

United States Medical Licensing Examination | Announcements

The United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) assesses a physician's ability to apply knowledge, concepts, and principles, and to demonstrate fundamental patient-centered skills, that are important in health and disease.

usmle.org

announcement from today. I do not see any new information that wasn't previously stated

Lol yet they still haven't said anything about what's going to happen to class 2023. What are we to them, monkies?

 

[Med.School.Hopeful]

People need to realize Step 1 is a beast of an exam and youre not guaranteed to pass just because you passed your first 2 years of school. Just passing takes considerable effort and dedication

Sure. But since it’s P/F would it really be worth it to put just as much time in it when it was scored? I’ve seen Med students in the past say they would sacrifice grades in favor of studying more for step 1. Now I’ve seen some say if it were P/F for them they would have put more focus into preclinical grades and research.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Sure. But since it’s P/F would it really be worth it to put just as much time in it when it was scored? I’ve seen Med students in the past say they would sacrifice grades in favor of studying more for step 1. Now I’ve seen some say if it were P/F for them they would have put more focus into preclinical grades and research.

No its definitely not worth it. I have just seen a lot of posts by people where they make it seem like they can just finish the 2 years of school and then take step right away. Its not an exam that you can just pass without much effort

 

[ritts]

Sure. But since it’s P/F would it really be worth it to put just as much time in it when it was scored? I’ve seen Med students in the past say they would sacrifice grades in favor of studying more for step 1. Now I’ve seen some say if it were P/F for them they would have put more focus into preclinical grades and research.

Making Step 1 P/F should not change the approach. Regardless, people still need to solidify the material. Step 1 score is one of the best predictors for Step 2 score. Preclinical grades still won't be very important. It'll mainly come down to Step 2 score, research, and away rotations

 

[OneSummerPhoton]

Along with this P/F, might as well get rid of all med schools that aren't Top 20.

 

[BeLikeH2O]

That seems very extreme, keep in mind that many MD programs outside of the very hyper competitive specialties do accept comlex, I know of many upper classmen including from several years ago who got into a solid university IM prorgam with just comlex, it’s more common than Sdn makes you think, and obviously the DO programs who made the acgme transition will still consider DO’s and comlex across all specialties. It sucks that they are making a change midway in your medical school career but it just changes the game and puts more emphasis on step 2 and your actual rotations and letters, do aways and get get good letters, get involved in research and volunteer to make your self stand out, and as I said step 2 will become king, so focus on that, I would not advise anyone to give up a DO acceptance and do 1-2 years of and SMP for the hope of an MD acceptance when they have a sure fire DO acceptance, DO school is getting more competitive each year and if you mess up on your SMP you might not even have that DO acceptance in a few years. even if they want something hyper competitive it can still be done the DO route and if you want something mid or less competitive the step 1 p/f change will have very little Impact on your ability to match, keep in mind that the p/f change also affects MD schools, yes the top 20 benefit but unless you can for sure get into a top 20 MD school it will make very little difference. It changes the game a bit but still keeps you in the game.

I would agree that turning down a DO acceptance and delaying med school for 2 years to do an SMP inorder to have a shot at an MD program is not a good tradeoff. But, you got to go with what makes you happy because you will be a DO or an MD your entire life. Although MD schools like Wake Forest, or Colorado, are not top 20, they have amazing teaching hospitals and home programs that will give them a clear advantage over ALL DO program. I am not stating anything new here, but one do not need to get into a top 20 school to gain a clear advantage regardless of Step 1 P/F.

 

[Fishwithadeagle]

I would agree that turning down a DO acceptance and delaying med school for 2 years to do an SMP inorder to have a shot at an MD program is not a good tradeoff. But, you got to go with what makes you happy because you will be a DO or an MD your entire life. Although MD schools like Wake Forest, or Colorado, are not top 20, they have amazing teaching hospitals and home programs that will give them a clear advantage over ALL DO program. I am not stating anything new here, but one do not need to get into a top 20 school to gain a clear advantage regardless of Step 1 P/F.

They definitely do have good programs, but I would argue that some DO schools, usually the state ones, are on par with those for the most part.

 

[BeLikeH2O]

They definitely do have good programs, but I would argue that some DO schools, usually the state ones, are on par with those for the most part.

Not even close. LOL

 

[Hopeful101]

Not even close. LOL

Tell you what Premed. Finish half of medical school before you talk. Over 20% of your graduating year will be DO doctors. Be respectful.

 

[BTR41]

Tell you what Premed. Finish half of medical school before you talk. Over 20% of your graduating year will be DO doctors. Be respectful.

I wouldn’t waste your breath on them. There are some people who just have to make themselves feel better by bringing others down. Prestige isn’t everything. Some people might choose state DO schools because they want to be close to home, save money, etc. It isn’t our place to judge or predict the success someone will have based on the school they go to.