P&S enthusiasts

[Benjo]

Just wanted to start a thread for those who, like me, might place Columbia at the top of their list. Only two months until the letters go out. Anyway, this is extremely dorky, but I just wanted to hear what some other people like about the school.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[exmike]

Originally posted by Benjo
J Anyway, this is extremely dorky, but I just wanted to hear what some other people like about the school.

I like how the school attracts dorks.

 

[calebho501]

Originally posted by exmike
I like how the school attracts dorks.

You're sooooo dead meat by tomorrow. I'm gonna roast you like a turkey, and cut you up to serve to my relatives!

 

[calebho501]

I think Columbia offers clinical training with a minority population is a plus. Also, it has a strong School of public health for those who are interested in that area.

 

[Supadupafly]

Carefull with that turkey roasting stuff.

 

[Street Philosopher]

Great place for neuro and surgery & maybe neurosurgery.

 

[medstylee]

I liked the school a lot. The day was really short, but all the students I spoke with were really awesome. They definitely seemed like people who I'd want as my classmates. If I get in, I think I'll definitely be going. Let's see what happens in 2 months...

 

[edfig99]

Originally posted by calebho501
I think Columbia offers clinical training with a minority population is a plus. Also, it has a strong School of public health for those who are interested in that area.

actually it's a majority population. 71% of washington heights is hispanic.

 

[TheFlash]

Originally posted by Street Philosopher
Great place for neuro and surgery & maybe neurosurgery.

SP, care to elaborate on their neuro programs? A lot of my past research has concentrated in neuroscience, so I'd love to hear about any special programs they've got to offer.

TF

 

[ice_23]

I really liked columbia

-Ice

 

[ewing]

Originally posted by TheFlash
SP, care to elaborate on their neuro programs? A lot of my past research has concentrated in neuroscience, so I'd love to hear about any special programs they've got to offer.

TF

Umm...ever hear of Eric Kandel, Tom Jessel, Jimmy Schwartz, Richard Axel, Steve Seigelbaum? They're all at Columbia...basically half of the top names in neuroscience are at Columbia. Also, you have Eric Rose, et al. in surgery..they're good people...esp. in cardiothoracic surgery. I dunno the peeps in neurosurg., but they're fine, I'm sure.

I dunno. I didn't apply there for med school myself...but if you want to do a PhD in neuroscience, you can't go wrong with Columbia.

 

[vikas]

I'm a dork, I like P&S.

Seriously though, Its a great school with excellent opportunities in the neurosciences. Kandel basically wrote the book on modern neuroscience (actually, I guess he kinda did literally write it).

They also have a pretty sweet brain imaging center.

Interview was last week, crossing my fingers.

 

[periodic]

Originally posted by ewing
Also, you have Eric Rose, et al. in surgery..

gotta love when we start talking like a pub med citation

does columbia do an accepted student re-visit day or weekend? my interview group missed out on a tour, and if i'm accepted, i'd like a closer look (it was an exam day, and our tour guides didn't show, but i forgive them )

 

[Rendar5]

yeah, there's a revisit weekend in the spring. I don't know if it applies to wait-listed people, though.

 

[jbing]

.

 

[JulianCrane]

Columbia is definitely one of my top choices. The only thing that may hold me back is Bard Hall.

 

[goobernaculum]

i'm definitely not bagging on you guys for loving columbia, but i'm still not sure what's so great about the school. granted, they're strong in neuroscience, psych, and neurosurg, but your exposure to those fields won't be THAT much. is it nyc (understandable)? even if you've interviewed at columbia, i'm sure you probably got interviews at other top places (eg- yale, penn, harvard, washu, hopkins) - even though columbia interviews almost everyone that applies. columbia has no exciting curriculum to boast, horrible housing, ugly facilities, etc. Again...I'm not coming down on you guys. i just figure it's a good #2 or #3 choice behind the above schools listed. Anything else that makes it an attractive place to go?

 

[medstylee]

What's so terrible about Bard Hall? It's not the lap of luxury by any means. But, it's real close to the school and it's got a nice gym and view. Maybe it would be too much to handle for someone who is really high maintenance with their living habits, but otherwise, it didn't seem like too big of a deal for me.

Personally, what I liked about my visit was that the student body seemed really cohesive and involved - there are a ton of clubs and the students seem to be pretty close. Those are real important aspects to me, at least.

Also, the statement about P&S interviewing everyone is false. I know that was an intended exaggeration, but, in years past, Columbia has intereviewed under 50%. Still a large amount compared to its peers. Also, this year, only 700-800 interviews are being conducted rather than the usual 1000+. So, sounds like the chances post-interview are about 1 in 4 for acceptance. It used to be around 1 in 7 or something close - good news for us!

 

[2004]

Where did you get your info that only 700-800 people are being interviewed this year? I'm not trying to dispute that, but is that a fact or a rumor?

 

[goobernaculum]

there are a ton of clubs and the students seem to be pretty close. Those are real important aspects to me, at least.

that's true. columbia does have a lot of clubs, but i still think you'll find the same thing at any other school. and if those clubs aren't there, you could probably start one. also, most people like their classmates and can't really say bad things about them in general. meeting students on the interview run can't really be representative of what the class is like either.

i don't know. i guess i'm resigned to thinking that there's some kind of innate affection for some schools and not others because i still can't see anything that really stands out about columbia.

for example:
yale - grading system
penn - curriculum
harvard - reputation
duke - less pre-clinical time
ucsf - $$ and SF
columbia - clubs?

 

[bigbaubdi]

Not only is Columbia a top medical school but it is also located in New York City!! That's one thing that REALLY distinguished Columbia from other top med schools.

 

[kwanny]

Originally posted by bigbaubdi
Not only is Columbia a top medical school but it is also located in New York City!! That's one thing that REALLY distinguished Columbia from other top med schools.

What about between Cornell and Columbia then?

 

[Tezzie]

Columbia > Cornell

 

[goobernaculum]

but - at least from what i've seen from cornell - their location is a lot better than columbia's (unless you enjoy being in the "trenches", which is legitimate, i think). they also share the same hospital.

 

[kwanny]

Originally posted by Tezzie
Columbia > Cornell

Tezzie, would you care to elaborate? When I went to Columbia for an interview, students seemed really cocky and full of themselves like no other... which really turned me off. As far as reputation goes, it's about the same, wouldn't you say?

 

[medstylee]

I don't have any basis for comparison since I did not apply to those other schools. I was just stating some things I liked about P&S from the interview. I wasn't intending to give a reason that would be used to distinguish the school from those others listed. If you're looking for maybe some less superficial reasons for me liking the school, I think one is the clinical exposure offered. The clerkships beginning right away in first year seemed really varied and interesting - good exposure. I think if I applied to a few of those other schools I'd be a better source of input for this comparison. I didn't see one particular thing that drew me to Columbia, it was more of a combination. Maybe someone else who thinks of P&S as their top choice could chime in too? I'm interested now in hearing what people thought.

 

[goobernaculum]

The clerkships beginning right away in first year seemed really varied and interesting - good exposure

is this new? when i interviewed last year, they never mentioned this. do you mean clinical exposure or actual clerkships, which involve rotations, rounds, etc.? that would be really interesting if columbia starts their clerkships in their first year - a definite plus for the medical student, but probably a downer for the patient.

 

[acab]

If I remember correctly, it's just clinical exposure, not clerkships.

 

[medstylee]

jeez - they're not REAL clerkships. that's just what one of the students was calling them. c'mon now.

 

[Rendar5]

Originally posted by kwanny
Tezzie, would you care to elaborate? When I went to Columbia for an interview, students seemed really cocky and full of themselves like no other... which really turned me off. As far as reputation goes, it's about the same, wouldn't you say?

You either met a few brats (which all schools are bound to have) or didn't get the right impression. I know several of the students and they're really nice. maybe 1 or 2 of the ones I know are a bit uptight, but not cocky.

And Columbia > Cornell because I went here for undergrad and a couple of my close friends went to Cornell for undergrad. And blue is better than red.

 

[Rendar5]

oh wait, someone I know did have a tour guide who was a bit defensive and cocky (the two seem to go together). Maybe you had the same one as her.

 

[kwanny]

Originally posted by Rendar5
You either met a few brats (which all schools are bound to have) or didn't get the right impression. I know several of the students and they're really nice. maybe 1 or 2 of the ones I know are a bit uptight, but not cocky.

And Columbia > Cornell because I went here for undergrad and a couple of my close friends went to Cornell for undergrad. And blue is better than red.

Hmm... now I wish I had taken the interview more seriously... damn...

 

[Lux Aeterna]

I think someone mentioned that Columbia was interviewing less people this year::

When I was there, some people in the know on the Columbia side mentioned that the school did not receive as many applications as they expected this year. They also went on to say that unofficial word was that Columbia may be joining AMCAS next year for this reason.

 

[bez2]

I'm a first year student at P&S and I love it here. I remember having many of the same sentiments that have been posted. Before I began the interview process I was very into curriculum, rank, innovative approaches etc. However, as I went through interview after interview I began to realize that those were not that important in the grand scheme of things. Remember, you will be learning the same thing at any school you go to. The curriculum at Columbia while not as "cutting-edge" as some other schools is innovative in many ways. First, we have an integrated course Science Basic to the Practice of Medicine, which combines many of the normal first year classes and places them into an organized, organ-systems based block format. We are truly Pass/Fail for the first year, and Honors/Pass/Fail for the remaining years. Continuing on with my story; I began to see what was more important, the intangibles. Where will you be happiest, do you see yourself fitting in with the student body, do you like the city etc. It doesn't matter how great the curriculum is, or how highly ranked the school is if you will be miserable there for 4 years of your life.

I love P&S. The students are great, the curriculum is great, and the social life is great. If you have any questions just post them and I will answer them ASAP.

P&S 2007

 

[raincrew]

hey bez2,

do you know if it's true that they're interviewing less people this year?

 

[Benjo]

Also, bez2, are the first-year clinical "clerkships" really called clerkships--I know it sounds like a stupid question, but for me it has significance that I won't even get into.

Also, in response to some other posts about post-interview acceptance rates. If you look at the stats posted on SDN, Columbia accepted about 25% of interviewees. I don't know if they are interviewing less this year or whatever, but 1 in 4 isn't too bad.

Columbia is by far my first choice, so I am gonna be praying as mid-Feb approaches. As far as my reasons go--I like it for its great clinical exposure, and the fact that you get more hands on experience than at a place like Cornell, because of the nature of the patient-base. It is also great for neuro and surgery, and I just so happen to want to go into neurosurgery. Also, it is in NYC, and the students seem likeable and enthusiastic to me--maybe I just got a good batch. ANyway, just my thoughts.

 

[edfig99]

Originally posted by Benjo
I like it for its great clinical exposure, and the fact that you get more hands on experience than at a place like Cornell, because of the nature of the patient-base.

having been a student at cornell and a resident at columbia, i will disagree. clinical exposure is about the same, as is level of "hands on experience" - whatever that means. and any edge that Columbia says they have in having more hands-on experience comes from a hospital and medical system that basically exploits a disadvantaged patient population.

irrespective, a school is a school is a school......

 

[bez2]

I have not heard any news about P&S interviewing less applicants this year, but then again I don't really know for sure. To answer your other question, our first year clinical experiences are called Clerkships.

In addition, the comparison between Cornell and Columbia gets brought up often and I think a lot of the difference goes back to my previous post. They are both great schools and you will be a great doctor either place you go. I went to Cornell Undergrad and worked at Cornell Med over a summer and it was my first choice BEFORE interviewing there. After I interviewed at Columbia I knew it was where I fit in and would be happiest, and that is ultimately why I chose to come to P&S.

 

[goobernaculum]

clinical exposure is about the same, as is level of "hands on experience" - whatever that means.

i'd have to agree. every school i interviewed at last year boasted clinical exposure in the first two years (or 1 - 1.5 depending on which school you go to). However, the experience can't be THAT much greater or less compared to other schools. Maybe U. of Rochester will allow more clinical experience/exposure. but other than that, it's all a matter of volunteering, shadowing, and practice interviewing - all of which other schools do also.

I still don't see many salient features that can positively distinguish columbia from it's peers in "the top 10". Granted, it's in NYC, and that's definitely cool. MAYBE you'll get a recommendation from one of those hotshots in the psych/neuro/neurosurg dept. I mean...come residency time, I'll definitely make that a consideration too. but in terms of time in the wards and actual exposure to these fields and to these top doctors, it'll be comparable to any top school you go to.

also, curriculum DOES matter. it's true taht we all learn the same stuff, but it's a matter of HOW we learn it, and how much (1, 1.5, 2 years pre-clinical). columbia's curriculum, though they tout it as being all reformed, is still very mundane and traditional.

again...i can see nyc as a factor to be attracted to the school. but if you all are considering columbia, you all must be qualified for those other top schools. is it something about those other schools that negatively impressed you?

(btw...sorry if i'm being so negative and somewhat deconstrunctionist. columbia actually used to be my top choice last year until i really evaluated my reasons in liking it. i visited a second time, then decided against the school. so i'm just curious what everyone else is thinking too).

 

[medstylee]

bez2 - thanks a lot for offering your input. you sound like one of the guys that came in and talked to us a few weeks back when i had my interview (?) in any case, you're a good resource for those of us who are interested in going to P&S and for those who are interested in finding out why the hell people choose it over another top-10 (no offense at all goobernaculum - I realize you're not just busting everyones' chops and I'm hoping your posts/questions will generate some useful responses for both of us).

for any of the current P&S students - how do you feel about the first year being mostly lecture? do you wish that there was any more group work and/or pbl? i kind of like the more formalized most-lecture style. i have no real basis to compare pbl to lecture though. i'm going to a school that's ~100% pbl tomorrow, but i won't really get too much feedback since they don't have any students yet. let me know what you think. thanks

 

[goobernaculum]

no offense at all goobernaculum - I realize you're not just busting everyones' chops and I'm hoping your posts/questions will generate some useful responses for both of us

hehe...no prob, medstylee. if anything i'm trying to be helpful because this same sort of decision was on my shoulders last year also.
on another note regarding curriculum: it's a lot about how comfortable you are with the style. though columbia's traditional with all their lecture time and whatnot, i believe they still do fairly well on the boards. plus...just like the other schools, columbia grads match VERY well for residency.

bez2 any report on last year's avg?

 

[josie]

I don't think it's fair to bash Columbia on its curriculum. I interviewed at both Cornell and Columbia and I prefer the more traditional curriculum at Columbia. I don't want to go to a school that utilizes a lot of PBL the first year - personal preference.

I will (hopefully) take Columbia over Cornell for many reasons, not just the curriculum. Columbia students seem very involved in a lot of activities outside of courses, which is really important to me. When I asked the Cornell students (the ones we met for lunch and our tour guides) what they were involved in, none of them were doing anything outside of classes. I know the opportunities are there for Cornell students, but it just didn't seem to me that the medical students there were very excited about anything but getting through the classes.

Just my opinion..

 

[missbonnie]

I read the same thing - about Columbia may be interviewing less this year. It's in their info thingie that you download on their online app.

b

 

[DW]

Originally posted by josie
Columbia students seem very involved in a lot of activities outside of courses, which is really important to me. When I asked the Cornell students (the ones we met for lunch and our tour guides) what they were involved in, none of them were doing anything outside of classes. I know the opportunities are there for Cornell students, but it just didn't seem to me that the medical students there were very excited about anything but getting through the classes.

and you base this assertion on the handful of students you meet at lunch, because being a first year here I couldn't more strongly disagree with your characterization of our class. ever heard of sampling error?

Columbia is a great school and has its reputation for many reasons, and like bez2 said, either place will train you well for whatever you want to do in medicine. I choose to do the East Side thing over P&S for my own reasons, but to each their own

 

[Jugador75]

Bez2 ? thanks for the valuable input. I definetely agree about the importance of being at a place where you?ll be happy for 4 years, and simply feeling comfortable with a particular student body. When I interviewed at Columbia, I absolutely fell in love with it. Btw ? did you look into NYU at all? That is the only other school from which I?ve gotten a similarly warm impression (and I got accepted yesterday!)

Thanks.

Oh - and how much easier do you think it will be to get a top residency coming from columbia vs nyu?

 

[bez2]

To answer a few of the questions that were posted:

-Columbia does excellent on the boards (same if not better than the other top 10 schools). If you have interviewed at Columbia and received the student handbook, last years matchlist is in there. I guarantee that it will impress you.

-About the mostly lecture based curriculum; PBL has very little appeal to ME. In PBL you are required to attend every class and small group. Much of your grade rests with your preceptor. You have to spend a significant amount of time outside of class researching information, and you are learning from your peers who know as little as you do. I feel that in PBL I would always be competing with my peers to be more "on" in class. The curriculum at P&S treats you like an adult. The lectures are great, as are the labs and they are supplemented with small groups (journal clubs and PBL) throughout the year. Yet, you are not required to go to lab. If you feel you can learn more by reading the book than by going to lecture, no one is going to stop you. I probably would agree that PBL might be more interesting, but certainly not innately better at helping you learn the material or prepare for the boards.

-In addition, at many of these schools you have tests every week. At P&S the tests are spaced about every 6 weeks. This gives you a lot of downtime and helps you avoid the feeling of constantly studying.

-I had interviewed at NYU also and I wouldn't count them out if you liked it there.

-Finally, I will reiterate again that Columbia may not market themselves the best or have the fanciest curriculum, but it is the intangibles which continue to draw an exceptional class year after year

 

[Jugador75]

Thanks. Is there anything in particular that you liked much more about Columbia over NYU? Certainly not location. I suppose the students are probably a little more intellectual/academic/ (dare I say smarter?) at Columbia...but is there anything else?

 

[josie]

Originally posted by DW
and you base this assertion on the handful of students you meet at lunch, because being a first year here I couldn't more strongly disagree with your characterization of our class. ever heard of sampling error?

Yep - I've heard of it. And I think Cornell is a great school academically - I have only been there once and I didn't get a good feeling about the school, for the reasons I stated earlier. It could have just been the day and the students I met (which weren't people I connected with). Choosing medical schools isn't scientific - for me (after 18 interviews) I just have my favorites!

 

[IntlMD07]

Hello everyone, I will step in to support bez2. I am also a first year here at Columbia and have to say that I could not be happier with my decision. I love the lecture format! I love the freedom implicit in the lecture format. You have a TON of material to learn, and what a school does is offer you resources to manage the information. If you learn best by doing, then go to lab, if you learn by listening, go to lecture, if you don't, stay at home and read the book... There are endless options and free hours to spend exploring NYC...

About the "Clerkships," they used to be called selectives, but they changed it recently. Of course they are not real rotations. THey are, however, an opportunity to shadow a physician and become familiarized with the system, the patient population and for some people, another division of the health sciences. What I mean by this is that the experience varies and you get to pick what you want to do. Some people are shadowing social workers, others are observing physical therapists. My first year experience is in a community primary care clinic in Washington Heights and it is exposure to primary care. We started out following patients through their care in the Ob/GYN clinic during their pregnancy. They gave me a pager and I got to go in when the pregnant girls I was following went in to labor. I saw their deliveries and now I am following the newborn babies in Pediatrics. The whole thing has been amazing! It is not about the medicine behind it - I have my third year to learn that - it is about finding out what kind of doctor I want to be, what my style of interaction with my patients is, how to establish trust and rapport and etc...

I have to say that Washington Heights is one of the top reasons I chose to come here. I hate how someone referred to it as "taking advantage of a poor population." There is nothing that we do "hands on" here that we would only do because of the nature of the population that we see: that is completely absurd, unfounded and horrible. What we do get is a variety of people (a lot of immigrants from different places) and a variety of diseases that you wouldn't see in a smaller hospital or one that had a predominantly white upper class population. I think the clinical training at Columbia forces you to be at the top of your game. You have to establish rapport with patients who often speak a language that you don't, who come from a completely different background, who often think that the cure for their disease lives within special herbal concoctions bought at a nearby Botanica. It is cultural competence at its best. What I think underlies how well we match out of here (besides the great board scores) is that if you can do this, you can do anything!

Let me know if you have more questions, sorry for the longest of posts!

-IntlMD07

 

[Benjo]

Thanks for posting, IntlMD07. That is more what I meant when I introduced the term "hands on" to describe one of the reasons why P&S was my top choice, not the "taking advantage" thing that somebody else said in response. What you said is pretty much aligned with what some of the 3rd and 4th years said that spoke to my interview group, and got me really excited about the school.