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Pa deal with surgury

Discussion in 'Clinicians [ RN / NP / PA ]' started by *xskittie*, Oct 16, 2002.

  1. *xskittie*

    *xskittie* New Member

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    I was just wondering I wanted to become a registered Nurse but my friend at school told me it a long waiting list and that I should do pa .... That its better and more money... Im not in it for the money cause I really love the medical... but i was just curious do pa's deal with surguries what are their purposes in a surgury room ....im sorry 4 my writting guys it is 450am and im feeling dizzy already but this hs got my mind working please help please dont send me no links:clap:
     
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  3. emedpa

    emedpa GlobalDoc
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    sorry to tell you this but it is much harder to become a PA than an RN. first you have to be an rn/paramedic/resp. therapist or similar medical professional with a bachelors degree than you need to work for 3-5 years and take a bunch of med school level prerequisites. PA school is not the easy way out. the easy way out is lvn or lpn(licensed practical nurse). 1 year after high school. you can do 90% of what nurses do for good money. lots of lvn's later become rn's or pa's.
    and yes, pa's work in surgery.
     
  4. cminchew

    cminchew Junior Member
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    Why do you keep telling everyone that they HAVE to be an RN/RT or similar? That is not a requirement to get into PA school. I'm applying to Baylor College of Medicine, one of the top 5 schools in the country, and they don't even list experience as one of the judgement criteria in any of their literature. I spoke with an admissions officer and she told me that the average student accepted has 6 months - 1 year experience of some kind. I know some programs focus more heavily on the experience, but some don't. You shouldn't be advising students that they don't qualify, when they may very well be qualified for PA school.

    I realize that you had plenty of experience going into your program, and that you are a firm believer in the original goal of PA schools. I respect your clear knowledge of the field, as well as your vast experience. As times change, so must medical education. There are plenty of intelligent and eager students who will make excellent PAs without a broad base of previous experience.

    Don't rain on everyone's parade!!!
     
  5. emedpa

    emedpa GlobalDoc
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    just my opinion...
    PA programs are selling out the profession by accepting applicants without health care experience. this creates 2 levels of PA-those who know their stuff and those who think surgery has 2 u's like the above poster.
    my dog could pass the new written only boards. the board process used to be a week long with core knowledge, primary care, surgery, and physical exam sections. it is pathetic. the test should weed out poor students, but the pass rate now at most schools is 100% and many new grads can't find their butts with both hands. I realize there are some good pa's without lots of prior experience, but there are enough good applicants that programs should be more selective. just my personal feelings and I'm sure most current pa students will disagree with me. oh well. that's one of the reasons I am going to med school.
     
  6. CVPA

    CVPA Senior Member
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    Here is my 2 cents, for what its worth.....

    PA school is a rigorous 2-year curriculum spanning a vast amount of material in a relatively short period of time. In my opinion, those with a solid medical background, ie RN, EMT, Resp. Therapist, will assimilate the material much better than those who do not have such a background.

    When I trained at SUNY @ Stony Brook, I can remember lectures that assumed a lot of basic medical information. For example, the lecturer may make a quick reference to the necessity of a CBC and SMA-7 as it pertains to a certain disease state. If an existing student has no significant medical background, he or she may not even know what a CBC and SMA-7 is and would have to then look it up and find out exactly what they are. Once they understand that, the lecturer's reference will make more sense. I am sure all would agree that this is not the most efficient way to learn clinical material and that those with a substantial background will be at an advantage over those who do not.

    I would therefore conclude that all PA programs in this country should mandate a certain amount of clinical experience as an entrance requirement. When I attended school in 1994, it was a mandate. If that is not the case today, a disservice to the students and their future patients is present.
     
  7. lmthoms1

    lmthoms1 Member
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    I agree with you I am a sophmore premed student who is strongly looking towards either pa or crna and I attend Memphis State. I was advised that after 2 years of prereq's (depending on hours taken) that I could apply for admission into a pa program........so for future reference you do not have to have a bachelors in order to go to pa school......just felt like contributing. ;)
     
  8. mbcallen

    mbcallen Junior Member

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    Imthoms1
    You are correct in saying that you can apply after two years of prereqs....at some schools. The problem is that you will be competing with people who have a BS in Biology and 4 years as a paramedic, RN, etc. Believe me, PA school is not an easy in, easy out situation. It requires both an incredible level of intelligence as well as clinical experience. Every person in my class has at least two years of incredible clinical experience and at least a 3.4 undergrad GPA.
    Oh, yeah, the person applying to Baylor, I hate to rain on your parade but good luck. Be sure and post when you get in. I suspect it will be a couple of years when you have some real experience.
     
  9. emedpa

    emedpa GlobalDoc
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    many pa programs are now masters level. to get in you need a ba/bs. even the bs level programs are fairly competitive with most folks already with a degree and some solid experience. a few programs don't require experience. I wouldn't attend one..... the process is very competitive. the program I teach at receives 300 apps for 30 spots each year. the avg profile for an accepted atudent this year at my program was age 30, bs degree with 3.5 gpa, 3+ years of medical experience. with so many new programs(134 at last count) a few will really suck. pick an older, well established program with respected graduates in practice. good luck all-e
     
  10. PACtoDOC

    PACtoDOC 1K Member
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    The original poster was simply misinformed, and probably has yet to even take a formal composition course if my bet is correct. To anyone that thinks you can or should get into PA school without significant medical experience, you are incorrect. The majority of programs out there now require medical experience, and less than 1% of all graduating PA's this year will graduate without at least a BS degree. When I went to PA school, there were about 10 of us with extensive medical experience, and it showed on exams and on rotations. It continued to show into our professional careers as well. Many school have sold out to allow people with less medical experience in, but they are only doing it to attract applicants in this overexpanding PA educational market. The PA profession was created to make medically trained individuals able to practice medicine in a much shorter time than a physician would take to be educated. And as for Baylor, I would love to hear about the success of someone trying to get in there. While I was a practicing PA, I served as a clinical faculty for Baylor, and I can tell you that they are one of the most selective schools in the nation. They might not require you to have tons of medical experience, but they will accept those that have proven that they are probably more qualified than the average medical school applicant. Baylor often gets people with other science degrees, MS's, and even Ph.D applicants. Even though I don't agree with their recruiting of non-medically trained applicants, their applicants cut the mustard in other ways. The reality of PA education is that it is becoming nearly as advanced and long as physician education. Where I am in medical school now, there is a PA school in our program that is a full 3 years long, and gives a master's degree upon completion.
     
  11. angelic02

    angelic02 Senior Member
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    PACtoDOC:

    What med school are you at? I find that kind of interesting that PA school (where your med school is at) is 3/4 the time of med school. I thought the purpose of PA training was to provide persons capable of practicing medicine within a shorter amount of time. Just my opinion, but shortening medical training by just 1 year isn't really shortening training at all. Personally, I would just take the 1 extra year and go to MD/DO school. But I guess there are some people who may need the 1 year in order to do other things.
     
  12. emedpa

    emedpa GlobalDoc
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    YOU ACTUALLY SAVE MORE THAN A YEAR. REMEMBER RESIDENCY...REQUIRED FOR A DOC BUT OPTIONAL FOR A PA. ALSO MED SCHOOLS TEND TO COST MORE PER YEAR THAN PA SCHOOL. TYPICAL PA PROGRAM $15K/YEAR. TYPICAL(PRIVATE) MD PROGRAM $20K+/YR
    ALSO YEAR 1 OUT OF PA SCHOOL YOU CAN MAKE $80K+/YR. YEAR 1 OF MD RESIDENCY $35-40K. JUST A FEW THINGS PEOPLE THINK ABOUT. THAT SAID, I AM IN THE PROCESS OF GOING BACK TO SCHOOL(AGAIN)-E
     
  13. AritonM

    AritonM Junior Member

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    It sounds like some of you are a little bit selfish. Maybe you dont want America to be populated with Physician Assistants? You don't to have to compete for a job? Don't worry most people who want to be PA's are filtered out in Biology 101. My cousin was a PA major for one semester, he switched to accounting and now he is a NYC firefighter. Believe me there will be 99 pre law students for every 1 PA student. You don't just back in to the medical field.
    Everyone is saying its not easy, well of course not. There is no need to tell someone something to make it seem harder. If you need 4 years of medical experience to be a PA, then why not just go to Med School? All PA programs are alike. You don't really learn anything until you get real world experience.

    Tony
     
  14. dim sum

    dim sum Member
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    if time is a factor, you could go to Miami Dade Comm. Coll PA program. They accept high school graduates so it'll save you time. (probably could get your PA degree by the time you're 20/21)
     
  15. emedpa

    emedpa GlobalDoc
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    all pa programs are not created equal. there are some really bad ones out there with board pass rates around 50%. do yourself a favor, don't go to a community college program for several reasons:
    generally poor rotations
    lack of bs degree limits the states you can practice in
    poor repuation in the pa professional community
    most community college programs are being phased out in favor of the minimum qualification of a bs. 5 years from now the standard degree will probably be the ms degree as most new programs are going this route and most older programs are switching to an ms as well.

    if you want a 2 year non-bs program the only good one left is the medex program in washington state. it was the 2nd program ever created (after duke) and turns out excellent grads every year(and no, I didn't go there).
    there are a few direct from high school programs that are 4 years in length and grant a bs. that is probably the way to go if you want to forgo the traditional prior medical experience route(they have early clinical experience the 1st 2 years). check out www.aapa.org for a complete list of programs and requirements and keep in mind that most programs are very selective
     
  16. Kat32

    Kat32 New Member

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    Could you comment on how to spot a bad PA program (other than their pass rates; all of the programs I've looked at have nearly 100% so I just thought that using pass rate as a criterion was not a good way of filtering schools out). What do you look for in a good program? One of the scools that I'm very interested in has only been around for three years (they are accredited). The faculty have been in PA education for a long time and have leadership roles in AAPA.
     
  17. dim sum

    dim sum Member
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    why would it be a bad choice to go to a comm college PA program. Not only you will be done about 4 years quicker, save a lot of student loans, and upon completion, you work the same job and command the same salary. Last time i checked, a comm college PA grad and a master program PA grad have equal salaries plus PAs get hired mostly by their experience (length of being a PA) and not by the school they graduated from.
    I just can't get pass the advantage of being done at such an early age (20-21). It also gives you enough time to pursue another career if indeed the PA profession is not for you.
    Plus with the nation in shortage of PAs and Nurses.......hospital will grab you regardless of your school reputation (my opinion)
     
  18. lmthoms1

    lmthoms1 Member
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    ALthough I have never went to a community college I dont find anything wrong with attending a PA program there. They have the course for a reason and unless someone on the board can back it up with facts there is no proof that a master PA program will pay more than communtiy college program ( again I have never attended a Pa program and to be honest I am currently a chemistry undegrad) I actually considered this field at one point and called my advisor at Memphis State and like I posted before she stated only the prereq's needed to be completed and then you can apply to PA school I am not trying to discourage anyone (and to be honest I am not sure what field I myself would like to enter now) but becoming a PA is exactly what you will be a Physician "Assistant" I know I am going to get a lot of bad reviews for this but people please stop making posts like the qualifications for PA school is that of a Physician's because being realistic it's just not. And no PA school isnt easy neither is RN school from what I hear and regardless of what anyone says although I havent been through medschool yet common sense tells me medical school to become a physician makes PA,RN,LPN, and etc look like a piece of cake. The only thing I can tell you is if your interested in a field call your local college whether it be community or university and speak with an advisor or admission clerk and they can tell you which path to go....sorry if I offended anyone I'm actually a very sweet person but just had to speak my mind;)
     
  19. emedpa

    emedpa GlobalDoc
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    I will say it more slowly this time...

    several ..states( 8 ) ..require ..a bs degree...to be licensed(misissippi requires a masters)..... you dont get this...from a community college...so if you go to a community college...you limit the states you can work in...

    copied directly from the aapa website:
    Q. What are the prerequisites for applying to a PA program?
    A. PA programs look for students who have a desire to study, work hard, and to be of service to their community. Most physician assistant programs require applicants to have previous health care experience and some college education. The typical applicant already has a bachelor's degree and over 4 years of health care experience. Commonly nurses, EMTs, and paramedics apply to PA programs.

    yes you can apply to a pa program with the minimum requirements. this does not grant you an interview. it puts you into a ranking system and places you at the bottom of the heap. several of the working pa's on this board are faculty at pa programs and we keep saying this but nobody listens. I have been a pa for 7 years and teach/precept for 4 programs. I am not making this up. pac2doc has also taught at pa programs and echoes my response. so who do you think you should believe? pa program faculty or a"school health advisor" who probably doesn't even understand the process.....
    having a masters degree does not get you a higher salary but it sets you apart in the hiring process vs a similar applicant with a lesser degree. also, most np's now have an ms so it makes you competitive for jobs recruiting both.
     
  20. MrGreed

    MrGreed Member
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    CVPA did you ever got accepted to medical school?
     

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