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StudyShy

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How hard is it to get into a PA program compared with getting into medical school, and if I become a PA, does it ruin my chances of ever getting accepted into medical school if I end up changing my mind?
 
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smedley

Getting into a PA program is very difficult. There are few seats and many applicants--so it is easy math! I can tell you that the program I attended stopped taking applications at 400, interviewed 125, and only accepted 30. Many programs are going to mandate either an MCAT score or GRE. The adcom`s are really bent on the fact (and rightfully so) that a PA degree should be considered a profesional and grad. level degree. I know of some PA`s that have gone onto med school and were very successful. To my knowledge, the PA education only helped them in addmision and study. Getting into a PA program is not as tough as all that if you know what it is that they are looking for. Anything I can do to help--say the word. good luck!
 

StudyShy

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Hey, thanks Smedley for your reply! :) I was getting worried that no one would answer my question. Do you know what the average GRE score for admitted applicants is?
 
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matthewb

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This is a topic that really interests me at this point. I have just completed the application process for several PA schools for the first time. I just graduated with a BS this May. I scored between the 60 and 65 percentiles on the GRE. I am a full time EMT and have been doing that for about 5 years. My GPA wasn't exceptional, cumulative about 3.3. I really feel like I've done everything I can do, now I just have to sit and wait. It is kind of frustrating not having a basis of how my application looks to the app. com. I honestly think that I am an excellent candidate, and really have the desire to bacome a PA. I just hope that I get the chance. I'll keep everybody up to date WHEN I hear something (I'm trying to be optimistic). Until the next time.
 

StudyShy

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I'm sure that you'll do fine. You sure look like a good applicant on the computer. Good luck to you! :)
 
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smedley

While your GPA is very important, it is not the end all. A huge part of acceptance is with your personal essays. I am not certain about your program, but with mine (and the others I applied) they required 2. What it is about the profession that interests you, and a personal statement about a character changing event in your life. These are huge! They are looking for maturity, maturity and maturity!! They try to figure out if you have what it takes to get through it, not just the desire. The programs are brutal beyond these words (but doable).
Statements about "resoursefulness" "self-motovation", understanding and the maturity to know when to recognize boundries and when to test them...above all else--what I have observed ---iswhen asked about "why PA?" they are looking for someone with the understanding that the "spirit" of the position (relieving suffering, medical model in primary care) is so similar to that of the primary care physician --that you would be no more fullfilled as a physician than if a PA. I know this is all confusing (I sometimes get fat typing fingers!), but in my opinion, those that express a value system (along with experience and grades) get in more readily. This is not an absolute--I do not know for sure. I hope this does help. If I can help anymore, just drop a line -- good luck!
 

matthewb

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Thank you both for your comments and advice. Those points exactly are what I love about the PA profession. It seems that medical schools focus so much on what's on paper-GPA,MCAT, etc. It seems to me that the PA programs strive to look at the whole person a little more. By no means am I saying that as a PA candidate I am any less competent than a pre-med student, I just appreciate what PA's stand for. I just want to treat patients. I do not desire the prestige or large salary of a physician, I simply want to have the autonomy to treat patients in a primary care setting. That's why I chose to pursue becoming a PA. I really think that if I am invited to interview I will have a really good shot. I just hope that my application looks good enough to get that interview. Thanks again for all your comments and I'll stay in touch.
 

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I haven't done too much research on a PA degree, but am interested in learning more. What are the differenced between a PA and an MD? If a PA has such similar duties as a doctor (as posted earlier), then why do so many want to go to med school and not PA school? For the applicants out there, do you feel like you will be cheating yourself by not going for the full MD? I appreciate any help I can get. Thanks
 
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smedley

These are excellent questions. There are some significant differences between a PA and an MD--largely concerning autonomy and the direction of more serious cases.
People enter the PA profession for a number of reasons (stated in many posts) but there are many differences that seem attractive about the PA program for those that have different priorities. For instance, a very heavy 2 year program can seem more attractive than the length and cost of medical school. PA`s can also change fields without completing another residency (like the MD would have to). This is not to say that there are not many PA`s in residency as well. The average work week is much less for a PA than for an MD. The insurance is considerably less for a PA. And contrary to popular belief, a PA`s salary can be quite competitive in the medical community. For many, medical school is the way to go. For others, the life dedication and discipline for med. school is too intrusive on their family. It really is a personal choice.
 

Amiandi

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Thanks for the reply. Do you know what the avg PA income is? Family is important for me as well, which is why I am looking into PA. On the other hand, the MD doctors I know personally, all see to have time for either a family or travel without too much of a problem. Where do the duties of a PA end? i.e. Are PAs now allowed to write out prescriptions? Do they feel overshadowed by their supervising doctor? Last question: Do you know a good website where I can read more about it? Thanks
 

matthewb

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I think one positive point of the PA profession is flexibility. It seems that as a PA you are able to control how much you want to work and as a direct result of that can also control your salary. As such, salaries can vary greatly based on specialty, location, and hours worked. If you are young and want to work a lot I've talked to a PA in a cardiology practice that works ALL the time and is making a quarter of a million a year on the east coast. There are also PA's in the midwest working 40 hours per week in a family practice clinic making between 60 and 70 thousand. That is part of the beauty of being a PA. Yes, PA's are allowed to prescribe in almost every state. They just have to remain under the written protocol of a physician. Of all the PA's that I've talked to, none have felt overshadowed by a doctor. Most feel that as long as the physicians trust the PA's skills and ability they are able to practice with nearly total autonomy. On the contrary though, a PA always has the confidence of knowing that a physician is there if they need to go to them for a particular question. As you know, I am awaiting the application process at this point. I am not a PA, so all this informmation is simply from conversations I've had with practicing PA's. I wish you luck in making your decision.
 

12R34Y

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I know of at least one cardiothoracic surgery PA who went to medical school and is now an ER doc. Pay for PA's is very dependent on specialty and location.

orho surgery PA or plastics can make six figures easily, whereas family practice in rural iowa may be 55-60,000 a year.

later
 

RockOn

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All of you have really good points about PACs. Let me start out by saying that I debated the MD/PA thing for about 3 yrs and had both feet in the boat for a long time. I've read just about everything and have shadowed PAs which is a VERY good thing if you want to know what they do (and adcoms want to know that you know what a PA does).

If anyone has questions about Wayne State's PA program in Detroit (StudyShy!!!) you can call Carol Dennis at (313) 577-2320. She is the person that evaluates all classes and requirements for the program. You can call and have her answer a specific question or mail you a list of the requirments for the program. I even met with her and she made me a list of everything I still needed, what I could improve upon, what classes I might want to retake, what the general stats of preceding classes were, and that even if you've taken the MCAT you need to take the GRE for school. It's not required but if you really wanted to be a PA, why would you just take the MCAT? Someone said above that they are big on maturity and that is so true. You only have 24 months to get this down and they want someone who is up and running already. In fact, I think that's why you are required to have 500 hours of health contact work before you even apply (at WSU). Also, they don't want to know why you don't want to be an MD, they want to know why PA?

As for differences in practice, it can vary widely. Practicing in a rural area, you are pretty much a doctor and they'll probably even call you that. Practice in a large urban hospital and you may be stuck being an eternal resident. There are a zillion different degrees in between the two extremes. You can go to the PA website for WSU at www.pa.wayne.edu/ and look at the prerequisites there. They have links to the official PA websites too. You should really look now b/c deadlines for schools are at different times and I know that WSU is at the end of October.

Anyone can ask me some questions if they want and I'll try to answer.

By the way......No I didn't choose the PA route but I went so far as to fill both applications. I'm going to be an M1 in the fall and the main reason I chose what I did was research opportunities.
 
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Freeeedom!

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Just because they may slip and call you doctor...certainly doesn't make you one. There are HUGE differences in the amount of school and clinical time between PA's and MD/DO's, I can assure you. I know many docs that don't say P.A. they say Physician's Assistant...because that is what they are.

Remember, if you want to practice medicine, go to medical school. If you wish to assist the practice of medicine, become a Physicians Assistant.
Telling it like it is, from someone who has been there and seen it.
 
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smedley

Freeeedom, my friend, clearly you have not done all the homework (and that is not even an insult -- few people actually do). I certainly have grown tired of explaining the differences/similarities of these two professions to the tune of an argument.
 

Freeeedom!

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Don't act smug.

PA is Physicians Assistant. Regardless of how you see yourself as some "extension of the physicians hands",PA's are clearly pushing beyond the borders of what they were originally conceived to perform. Regarding my "homework", I have dated, and worked with 2 PA's. And, I am sorry to say, I have worked with no less than 10 physicians who feel PA's are encroaching into areas not meant for them. In fact I have met only a single physician in the hospital I work in , that uses PA's...and that guy is the surgeons "whipping boy".
So sorry man, I tell it like I see it.
If you want to be an assistant, go to PA school...if you want to be a doctor go to med school.
What is wrong with saying that?
If you want to be a nurse, go to nursing school.
If you want to be a dentist, go to dental school.
If you want to be a Physicians Assistant, go to PA school.
 

matthewb

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It really disapoints me when I see people who feel that they must compare MD's and PA's. There is not a comparison to be made. It seems to me to be very much like the old adage of comparing apples and oranges. PA's and physicians have different roles in the health care team. Yes, a PA's duties may overlap those of a physician's, but what is so wrong with that? The whole idea here is a team effort. Believe me, PA's know that they are acting under a physician. They don't have a problem with that. I think that the reason docs are feeling threatened is because they are seeing PA's that can do their job as well as they can for less money. Doctors will always be needed, there is no doubt about that. PA's can simply play a role in the health care team. Let's stop the comparing and realize that PA's and physicians can appreciate each other for what they do.
 

matthewb

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Maybe a little bitter from a couple of past relationships there freedom? I think you need to come off your high horse and accept the facts.
 
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smedley

"If you want to be a Physician Assistant, go to PA school." is different from "If you wish to assist the practice of medicine, become a Physicians Assistant." Not smug Freedom, informed. I dated a hairdresser and no nothing of the buisness. I am certain you have insight that some do not--but you do not understand the philosophy of the profession. These are two different fields that overlap, if there has been too much overlapping -- you can blame managed health care and heavy case loads, not the PA profession. It gets old defending a profession against someone who is uninformed. This is not a slam, gettin` tired of cleaning up the poor information that makes it difficult to operate as a team.
 

BD

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Physicians are not threatened by PA's,and it's quite arrogant of you to say that a PA can do the job that a DR. can .Physicians are,however, concerned with PA's overestimating their educational abilities.Yes, PA's ,like NP's ,can take care the "easy" cases but when the "**** hits the fan" who do pt's want to see,they want to see a "real" doctor not someone who is walking around in a long white coat with a stethoscope around the neck,acting like a doctor and you all know what I'm talking about.
 

lotchki6

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I have been really quiet throughout this thread, but the last post was about all I can take.

You say that we are ARROGANT for thinking we can do the same job as a doc? I am sorry buddy, but it seems like the arrogance is on the other side of the table. I believe my fellow PAs and PA students have done a great job at explaining the abilities of a PA..so it is useless for me to reiterate. I am just gonna say this - Get off that high horse of yours, because rest assured someone will knock you off soon enough!!!

:eek:
 

BD

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I'm sorry if the truth hurts but it's still the truth.It was also one of your colleagues who stated that physicians are feeling threatened because PA's can do the job that a DR. can; Now that is ,my friend ,arrogance so don't go stating that I'm the arrogant one. I was very insulted by that comment.I worked too hard and too long to have a PA ,with a 1/4 of the training that I have, say he/she is an equal and can do my job.
 

CVPA

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"real" doctor not someone who is walking around in a long white coat with a stethoscope around the neck,acting like a doctor and you all know what I'm talking about.


BD:

People like you don't want to see the picture any other way than the way you see it right now. For that reason I am not even going to attempt to dissuade you of your beliefs of PAs and their role in medicine. Just know this, your wrong about PAs. Furthermore, everytime you open your mouth and say things like the above quote to your colleagues who know better, you make a fool of yourself.
 
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lotchki6

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PAs have 1/4 of the training as you, huh? It is too bad that your 3/4 more training than us did not include proper instruction on your fellow health care professionals. Grow up buddy--trust me, it is in your patients best interest.

Sincerely,
Mike
 

BD

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To cvpa,Let me preface this by saying ,I believe there is a place in medicine for PA's.With that said, I also believe that a PA cannot do the job of a physician and are not equals.When I work w/ PA's ,I treat them w/respect but I also let them know that I or my attending, make the final decisions on pt care. Some of the PA's that I work with are very experienced yet still make many mistakes and that's not to say that DRs don't but ,by far, not to the degree that PA's do.This is,however,understandable for they are not, nearly, as educated as the "physician" .So that being the case,I don't believe,as your colleagues have stated, that PA's can do my job and I do find those statements insulting.What part of this don't you understand?
 

CVPA

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Listen, I really don't want to debate this. My problem with what you said was the specific quote that I attached to my response. Even you have to admit, it was uncalled for and incorrect, not to mention unprofessional.

I agree that PAs cannot, and more importantly should not, do the same job as physicians. That is not in keeping with the original intent of PAs nor is it the current philosophy of the profession. Physicians should always be making the final decision on the patient's plan of care. Having said that, PAs can and do contribute significantly to the care of each patient. When they do this they are not acting like doctors, they are functioning as PAs.

As far as your statement regarding PAs making more mistakes than physicians because they have less training, that is just not true and there is absolutely no evidence to support such a claim. Although you may have had some personal experience to the contrary, it hardly qualifies as a validation of such a generalized statement. Hell, just this weekend I was on call and rounded on a patient that was being discharged by the HMO hospitalist. The patient was in afib and had a creat. of 3.1 (chronic). The discharging physician was sending him home with no anticoagulation and on an ACE inhibitor. I caught this and corrected it. What does it mean? Nothing other than the reality of medicine today is that many physicians are overworked and are unable to spend as much time reviewing details of a patient's condition as a PA can. My attending relies on me to pick-up those kinds of details and I do it well. This is only one of many benefits of the PA/physician team.

The constant and continued comparison between PA and physician is getting old. Why don't people compare RNs with physicians? Because they are more dissimilar than they are similar and the lines that divide them are glaringly obvious. PAs and physicians, however different, are more similar than they are dissimilar. This results in many people (usually new physician graduates) feeling an overwhelming need to point out how different they are.

OK, I'm done. I said I didn't want to debate this and look how I've rambled. God, am I sick of this never-ending debate.
 

rdennisjr

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Hey CVPA:
You might be tired of this argument, but at least the rest of us enjoy the pleasure of reading your well reasoned, elegently structured, and coolly delivered arguments. You do an excellent job of maintaining a level headed attitude while disproving many a intentionally abrasive arguments. Please don't let 'em beat you down - keep up the excellent work! :D

Dennis
 
S

smedley

Just an observation...

Whenever an educated, professional PA attempts to "enlighten" the uninformed--the answer is of course "well, not all PA`s are like you." as if these PA`s are the exception to the bubling profession. The truth of the matter is, like CVPA and myself (among many others), there is a community of professional PA`s that are just sick of these (oooh, the word I want to use here!) uninformed people and will no longer hear their ramblings.

BD, sorry man, but you are an idiot -- good bye!
 

tidy_kiwi

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Er um - I'm kind of wary stepping into this thread - let me first state that we don't have PA's in NZ and after reading through this and other threads I have a question about the PA profession. While most of you on this board have outlined the abilities of the PA extremely well (I would be more than willing to work with one if I ever got the opportunity) in regards to their ability to practice medicine, I would like to know what limitations are placed upon them?

Thanks.
 

BD

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To smedley and all of you who "believe" this BS, you are the uninformed.Yeah, I want to have a person with 1yr didactics and 1 yr of rotations taking care of me;it's called ,learn as you go or trial and error. The problem with you people is you think you know more than you do and that's dangerous.Stop patting yourselves on the back and wake-up,there is a whole,big, world of medicine,out there, that"you" know nothing about. So who is the uninformed or the "idiot" ? Get real!
 

CVPA

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BD:

You just don't get it. We are not out there practicing medicine on our own. We are not practicing by trial and error anymore than an intern is. The intern practices under the tutelage of the attending physician in the same way that a PA practices under the supervision of his or her attending. Everything that we do is under the review and is subject to change by the attending physician. You make it sound like a PA does 2-years of training then just comes out and starts practicing medicine independantly. Let me say this again because you clearly are having difficulty grasping this concept.......PAs DO NOT PRACTICE MEDICINE INDEPENDANTLY. We work in conjuntion with the attending physician to augment, not replace, the care given.

Another thing, I love how when new graduate physicians feel the need to compare education between PAs and themselves, they conveniently leave out the fact that most PAs have five or more years of medical background. Personally, I had 8-years in clinical laboratory medicine. Let me tell you something there Skippy, I and most of my colleagues have extensive backgrounds in various aspects of medicine that you wouldn't have a clue about such as nursing, laboratory technology, radiology, paramedic, etc.. That background makes a huge difference in grasping concepts rapidly during a 2-year training program.

You say that you wouldn't want anyone taking care of you who has 1-year of didactic and 1-year of clinical training. I guess you wouldn't allow a nurse to take care of you in an ICU, or a Physical Therapist to give you therapy if you were injured. Are you so arrogant that you believe the only qualified individual to administer care to a patient is a physician or that only a physician can truly understand medicine? Although the physician may function as the captain of the ship, he or she cannot do so without a crew. The PA is part of that crew and functions, if you will, as the first mate.

You have clearly shown that you resent PAs for their role in medicine. That really is a shame for you and your future patients. If you could just put your anger, immaturity, and resentment aside for two seconds, you might realize that PAs play an important role in medicine despite what you may think.

One final thing that I've been wondering. If you have such contempt for PAs, why are you reading and responding to posts in the PA/NP subsection of SDN anyway? This is an area where prospective and seasoned PAs exhange thoughts, ideas, and questions about the profession. Although this is a public website and you certainly have the right to view and/or post anywhere you like, I think I speak for most when I say that we really don't need or want people like yourself who do nothing but throw stones with no real purpose other than self-promotion by disparaging others.
 

BD

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To cvpa ,It is you who does not get it.The reason I am posting here,in the first place,is because I am responding to a comment one of your "firstmate" colleagues said.Let me restate it for you since you have forgotten how this whole thing started.Your wonderful colleague stated that physicians are threatened by the fact that PA's can do their jobs.I responded with a defense which stated PA's cannot do my job.Also ,let me make a few points 1. an intern has a medical degree and has already gone through twice as much schooling as a PA but I guess you missed that minor point.2. PA's only do 2yrs of training then they are out working and not as apprentice PA's like the "intern".And I,also, never said that they worked independently(and that's independENT not independANT )nor did I,ever,say they were practicing medicine( you have to have a medical degree to practice medicine , honey!)3.You emphatically stated that PA's do not work independently yet who's in wash .D.C. and at their state capitals arguing for that ,very , freedom...PA's/NP's 4.I know that it takes more than just physicians ,as I stated before ,I do believe there is a place for PA's(what part of that didn't you understand)but it's not in "conjunction" with physicians but under them; so know your place . One last pt, I don't have any contempt nor am I threatened by PA's,but I do have a problem with them thinking they can do my job.When they do , it trivializes all the yrs of training that physicians go through....You have to admit, you, yourself, do not like when I minimize your yrs of training and experience . So What makes you, or your colleagues, think it's o.k. to minimize mine or any other doctor ,for that matter? Don't be so hypocritical!
 

lotchki6

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I am not going to escalate this argument any further. Clearly there are people out there that are not in favor of PAs and do not regard us as qualified health care professionals, and the only thing I can say to that is that this is YOUR own hang up!!

However I would like to clarify a few points that our fried BD has made, to ensure that all prospective PAs do not become discouraged by his(her?) ignorant ramblings. Firstly -- The comparison is CONSTANTLY being made about the number of years that PAs spend in school vs that of a physician. Lets get this straight -- According to the AMA and AAPA, the average length of med school is 155 weeks. The average length of PA school is 111 weeks (where many programs push more--mine is more than 120, in which the professional phase is over 3 years, not 2). So you see, the difference in training comes down to more than 2 vs. 4, but instead the design of the programs!! PA education is notoriously faster paced than med school...and anyone that argues otherwise is just plain WRONG!

Secondly, The statement that PAs do not practice medicine because you need a medical degree to pracice medicine is just plain STUPID!! Correct, PA does not stand for Medical Doctor, but it still follows the medical model of education. Again, as CVPA has said numerous times---we DO NOT think we are physicians. But we DO know that we are capable of providing quality MEDICAL care to a patient. Why don't you look up the definition of a PA , even with your very own AMA, and it will state that a PA is one who PRACTICES MEDICINE with the supervision of a licensed physician.

BD, You have your opinion about PAs, and you are entitled. No one is taking away how hard you have worked to get where you are right now...but don't dare sell us short on how hard we have worked. It is truly unjust to judge when you have not been in our shoes.
 
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kundun

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When I was in my first year of medical school...I sorta had a gripe about the whole PA thing..I think everybody did...However, as I got further into my training, I realized that that type of attitude will get you nowhere really fast...In the future I fully intend to utilize the services of a PA
 

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Hi, I have been following this whole discussion with a lot of concerns. The tension between some physician and PAs is very disturbing. Although I'm be going to be an M1 in about 3 weeks, I think it's important to know and understand people who serves other roles in the medical profession. After all, they are people who will serve along side with physicians, and they deserve the same respect. CVPA and lotchki6 is right. Hardworking and dedicated PAs do serve an important function in medicine. I think that they deserve to be seen by physicians as colleaques and not as underlings. I certainly intend to do so.
 

lotchki6

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Hey Avery and Kundun,

I really appreciate your replies. It is nice to see that there are individuals that are willing to see today's health care system in a different light. For that, I am postive that you guys will make amazing physicians. Best of luck to the both of you.

Mike
 

CVPA

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OK, I'm going to try this one last time.

This is the second time that I am saying this (please see my second post, second paragraph). I AGREE that PAs cannot and should not do the same job as physicians. OK? There is one thing that we can agree on. I know thats how you originally got into this thread, but it was not my reason. I can see how for someone like yourself who has obviously worked hard to get through your undergraduate studies and medical school training, you might feel like your training is being diminished by a non-physician who says they can do your job. You should know, however, that sentiment does not represent the mainstay philosophy of the PA profession. There may be some PAs in Washington lobbying for more autonomy, I don't know, I didn't hear about that. I do know that if they are, they are not there with the support of the American Academy of Physician Assistants. I never trivialized the training of physicians nor did I ever say that I could do their job. So how am I a hypocrite? I respect their training and knowledge base as most respect ours. It is not the same, that is true, and I wasn't making the comparison between PAs and interns to imply that they have the same training. The point of the comparison was to illustrate the fact that when both come out of their initial training, they both DO practice as an apprentice. That is exactly how a PA practices, as an apprentice. An apprentice functions under the supervision and guidance of a mentor or supervisor. The difference is that the apprenticeship is finite as a physician and infinite as a PA.

You asked me to not be so hypocritical. Take a step back for a second and read some of your posts. You are doing exactly to the PA profession as you perceived that someone was doing to physicians' training. We both got hot under the collar because we felt our profession was being trivialized. All of of us have pride about what we do and no one, not a janitor, desk clerk, lawyer, etc., wants anyone to trivialize or diminish what we do.

My whole problem with you has been the manner and tone in which you refer to PAs and the profession as a whole; stating that PAs need to "know their place" and are "beneath" the physician. Those comments drip with a haughty condescension that is only going to push people's buttons. I am going to assume that was not your intention. PAs do work in conjunction with physicians, BD. It doesn't mean that they are necessarily equal in authority, obviosuly they are not. My supervising physician introduces me to his patients as his associate who is a physician assistant. It doesn't elevate me to any other level than what it is, an association and a union. I work directly for and with him. Your comments, writing tone, and sarcastic insults (not that my posts were totally free of this) are inflammatory and only result in the hurling of insults between writers. Let's see if we can't rise above that.

I think the best thing to do here is just agree to disagree on some of the finer points of physician assistants and their role and "place" in medicine. I wish you the best of luck in your continued training.
 

yalepa

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Sounds good. Lets be done with this line. Many incredible and wonderful points have been made, so lets agree to disagree and move on to another topic. Do you all agree?? Or do you really want to continue with it?

YALEPA :D
 

Emedpa

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more on the md vs pa thing...it is more important what experiences you have than what your degree is.I have been an emergency medicine p.a. for a long time and a paramedic before that. as associate chief of my e.r., I train medical students and residents to do procedures and evaluate fairly sick folks.I am certified in pals/atls and several other er courses as well as being an acls instructor. when working with new physicians, I often see twice as many patients as they do in addition to reading all of their xrays and ekg's for them. sometimes the best provider available for a patient is a physician assistant.that is not to say that I do not respect the experienced senior physicians that I work with, it just takes a while to learn the ropes. :p
 

coolthang

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Ok, first - STOP ARGUING!!!!!!!!!

Now, to what i want to talk about. I am a UK citizen but i would like to wonder do PA programmes accept graduates and you get cheaper tuition if you are a state resident. Does that mean you have to be a U.S. citizen or can it be a foreign citizen living in the U.S. but hasn't got their citizenship yet?
 

CVPA

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Uh, Coolthang, if you look at the dates of the posts, you'll see that the arguing ended over a month ago.......

To answer your question, I know that in order to get an in-state tuition reduction, you have to be a resident of the state for at least 12 consecutive months. I would imagine that in order to satisfy that requirement, you must first be a US citizen. A definitive answer will have to come from the specific state in which you are interested in attending PA school.

Good luck.
 

CVPA

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I'm not sure what the ranking is now. In fact, I don't believe there is an official ranking. I do know that when I attended Stony Brook's PA program in 1994, the un-official rankings where:

#1 Duke, #2 Stony Brook, #3 Yale


These were based on attrition rates and board pass rates (NCCPA) on first attempt.

I don't know what the attrition and pass rates are now.

Good luck.
 

trouserz

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lol if any pa students are paying more than 10000 a semester then u are crazy!!! My school has a pa program get this.. 1500 a semester.. lol
 
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