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Painful canker sores anyone?

Discussion in 'Dental' started by aileen, May 2, 2004.

  1. aileen

    aileen Senior Member
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    My bf is suffering from canker sores 24/7. Currently, he's carrying more than 7 HUGE ones in his mouth (5 on his cheek and lip and 2 on his tongue). What's wrong with him? At my advice, he went to see numerous dentists and no one seemed to have answers for his never-disappearing canker sores. He can't eat spicy food, never mind being kissed by me... It sucks. Is there any cure or solid treatment he can get? Somebody please help us or ME!
     
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  3. DcS

    DcS damn the red baron
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    From what I know, there isn't a known cause of cancer sores. There are many hypotheses...stress, nutritional imbalances, immune system deficiency. Anyways, this is something I found online about them. In the meantime, I've personally found rinsing with warm saltwater reduces the inflammation and time till they disappear. I would also highly recommend something with benzocaine in it, it's available over the counter. I know one brand, Orabase B, works very well. Good luck, i go through bouts sometimes, while not recurrent, where I've had 4 or 5 on my tongue/lip and it's so painful, i know his pain. Here is something I found online:



    "Most doctors recommend that patients who have frequent
    bouts of canker sores undergo blood and allergy tests to
    determine if their sores are caused by a nutritional
    deficiency, an allergy or some other preventable cause.
    Vitamins and other nutritional supplements often prevent
    recurrences or reduce the severity of canker sores in patients
    with a nutritional deficiency. Patients with food allergies can
    reduce the frequency of canker sores by avoiding those foods.

    There are several treatments for reducing the pain and
    duration of canker sores for patients whose outbreaks cannot be
    prevented. These include numbing ointments such as benzocaine,
    which are available in drug stores without a prescription.
    Anti-inflammatory steroid mouthrinses or gels can be prescribed
    for patients with severe sores.

    Mouthrinses containing the antibiotic tetracycline may
    reduce the unpleasant symptoms of canker sores and speed
    healing by preventing bacterial infections in the sores.
    Clinical studies at the National Institute of Dental Research
    have shown that rinsing the mouth with tetracycline several
    times a day usually relieves pain in 24 hours and allows
    complete healing in 5 to 7 days. The U.S. Food and Drug
    Administration warns, however, that tetracycline given to
    pregnant women and young children can permanently stain
    youngsters' teeth. Both steroid and tetracycline treatments
    require a prescription and care of a dentist or physician.

    Patients with severe recurrent canker sores may need to
    take steroid or other immuno-suppressant drugs orally. These
    potent drugs can cause many undesirable side effects, and
    should be used only under the close supervision of a dentist or
    physician."
     
  4. drPheta

    drPheta Some random guy
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    No cure for canker sores (acute apthous ulcers). I believe it was high arginine containing foods that can further irritate or possibly cause these sores. Also, SLS (sodium laurel sulfate?) found in most toothpastes that can further cause irritation (I believe Tom's of Maine doesn't use this ingredient).

    He can't cure them, but he can assist in their recovery. Supposedly L-Lysine is collagen promoting, and foods high in that are said to help shorten the recovery. Might I suggest an analgesic which is coupled to a coating agent. For instance, Ora Gel, Kanka, Colgate Sooth n Seal, and Anbesol seem to work very well and are available over the counter.

    Avoid chocolate and peanut butter. Also, no spicey foods, no nuts (as the chunks will get lodged in/traumatize the sores further), drink plenty of milk (seems to have some correlation to the healing of ulcers). Also, a nightly dilute salt rinse followed by application of the afore mentioned medication before bedtime could help.

    DISCLAIMER:
    I am not a doctor, so my advice should be confirmed by a physician or dentist or used at your own risk. You agree to lift any and all liability from me.
     
  5. aileen

    aileen Senior Member
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    drpheta, u r funny. thanks.
     
  6. no2thdk999

    no2thdk999 Senior Member
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    Usually when I have a patient that reports a h/o severe or frequent apthous ulcers they admit they rarely eat green leafy vegetables. One of the B vitamins is missing in their diet. Get him on a multivitamin. There are various rinses and topicals you can use to reduce the symptoms. My favorite is Colgate Sooth and Seal but have him find one that works for him. Have him go without toothpaste for 1 week. 7 days without fluoride won't kill him and that may be the trouble. Lastly, stress is definitely a factor. So.....
    Rx= Cabernet Sauvignon
    Disp 1 bottle
    Sig: 200 ml po qhs with hot bubble bath.

    JMHO
    Rob
     
  7. oms fan

    oms fan How I feel everyday...
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    How long has he had the sores?? Are they white with a red halo around them or do they look different? How often does he go through bouts with them...more than four times per year? Just curious.
     
  8. Harrie

    Harrie Senior Member
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    I also have frequent canker sores and I've tried EVERYTHING. I've only found two things that work.
    1. My dentist gave me a prescription for BDT rinse. It is a suspension of Bendadryl, Decadron, and Tetracycline or Erythromycin (mine had erythromycin). I use it only when I have sores. It works really well by decreasing the swelling and duration of the sore. You are supposed to rinse with it, but I can't stand the taste (weak stomach I guess) so I just apply it topically.
    2. A toothpaste without Sodium lauryl sulfate (I don't know if Tom's is SLS-free). I used Squigle toothpaste. You can find it on the internet. I bought it from www.just4teeth.com
     
  9. Mo007

    Mo007 Gifted Hands
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    Wow... I don't want to scare anyone or anything, but this ulcer is sometimes seen in individuals with AIDS. Typically, they are a shallow ulcer with a white or whitish/yellow base surrounded by a reddish border - and is located in front and just below the bottom teeth.

    Treatment is usually not necessary. In most cases, the condition is self-limited and healing is spontaneous.

    See the attachment.
     

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  10. drPheta

    drPheta Some random guy
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    Oh yeah, this reminded me of rinsing with an Antacid. Any kind of OTC antacid will do. If wish, you can have your doc Rx you a mixture of Benadryl + Malox 50/50 for you. Antacid plus analgesic works great! 2-3 rinses a day will suffice, but rinse as needed if the irritation is that bad.
     
  11. Doctor Bagel

    Doctor Bagel so cheap and juicy
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    wow, i love this board. i have two canker sores right now, and they're driving me crazy. i get a canker sore maybe once a year, so i am wondering what's up and trying to figure out if i've been eating anything weird. the b vitamin thing is interesting, too--i'm a vegetarian so i know that can be an issue. stupid herpes!
     
  12. sxr71

    sxr71 Senior Member
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    I'm not a doctor, so take this advice like it's coming from a regular guy who has occasional canker sores.


    I used to get them mostly because of stress, a dentist I visited basically provided that as the most probable explanation. Taking B-complex vitamins was suggested and I felt improvement after doing so. In the case of one large and painful one that was caused by injury rather than one which appeared spontaneously, a doctor was kind enough to cauterize it. To me that was instant relief.
     
  13. c132

    c132 Senior Member
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    Major Aphthous ulcers, which is what your b/f has is a "serious" disease. It is really painful and does need treatment if it is altering his life like that. Some later treatments are topical steriods, as well as topical pain killers so he can get sufficient food/water intake.

    Main thing is removing stimulus if he is lucky enough to do it. Look at when he started getting these and find anything in his diet or activity that may be new. I get apthous ulcers when I take a certain type of over the counter vitamin.

    The "newest" treatment for these is with a laser. They can chemically treat these with an acid which works the same way. This really isn't a treatment, but what it does is kill the nerve endings in the area and takes him out of pain. A lot of people now are doing a small steroid injection directly into the ulcer, then using the laser to sear the top off. It takes about the same length of time to heal, but it will not be as severe symptoms!

    These things "could" be the underlying symptom of a more serious disease. First thing that came to mind was crohns disease. It could also be bechets syndrome, ulcertive colitis, and other GI problems. I would highly recommend him getting to a MD for a good workup for these if they have been there for a while.

    Major Aphthous Ulcers, by the book, take anywhere from 14-28+ days to heal up.

    Anyways, has a dentist offered to biopsy one of these. They can sometimes tell something from a bx if it they have been there a while.
    Take a look at:

    http://www.dental.mu.edu/oralpath/surg/immune.htm

    Stress has a HUGE relationship with Aphthous ulcers. I know during finals "right now" I tend to have a few!!!

    PM me if you would like any more info!!!!!
     
  14. c132

    c132 Senior Member
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    Not to be a strict arse here, but herpes is NOT the cause of apthous ulcers. Two completely different things!!!! If its herpes, you CANNOT treat by topical steriods, or you will have a major flare up!!! Herpes is a pain in the as+

    Apthous is caused by an immune response, not a virus. Thats why rarely, apthous ulcers could be the first sign of an "autoimmune" disease!!!

    I don't think this guy has an autoimmune disease, because probably more people just have these things and nothing else is wrong than someone who gets these as a secondary to some serious illness..
     
  15. packbacker

    packbacker Senior Member
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    An old country remedy for canker sores was to rinse twice a day with an aqueous solution of 20 Mule Team Borax. I did this many times as a child and must say that it SEEMED to help. Later as an adult, I've looked at the chemistry and am not quite sure what to make of it. Borax is a complex structure of Borates with the formula Na2B4O7 -10H2O. Any thoughts on why a laundry water softener/industrial chemical might be used as a remedy for canker sores??
     
  16. c132

    c132 Senior Member
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    Did it seem to heal them up faster or just make the pain go away? What would the pH be of the Borax. It would have to affect the terminal nerve, it seems. I would say that the pH "kills" the nerve endings, but that is totally a guess. I know some dermatologists treat cankers with an acid, maybe a boric acid!
     
  17. packbacker

    packbacker Senior Member
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    Borax is a complex crystal composed of BO2(OH) and BO3(OH) molecules. It tasted sweet when you rinsed with it. I'd assume from the chemical composition that it would be basic in solution. From memory, it always seemed to make the sore heal faster, but didn't impart any anesthetic properties. If you've every had a sore, there comes a point in time where it's still visible but no longer hurts. My seat of the pants estimate is that this time period was reduced by several days.
     
  18. aileen

    aileen Senior Member
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    You guys rock. Thank you all for your help.

    My bf decided to try topical steroid which he's able to get from his dentist. His dentist is sort of promising him less recurrent canker sores if my bf uses it as directed. He's changing his diet - lots of green vegetables from now on. He's also told to do something that can help him reduce stress.
     
  19. Dr.SpongeBobDDS

    Dr.SpongeBobDDS Senior Member
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    I get cankers if I accidentally eat walnuts or pecans and when I am stressed. One thing I will do if the canker is especially irritating is heat up the prong of a fork or handle of a spoon until it is glowing red hot and plunge it into the sore. After the intial shock there is instant relief and the site is usually healed over in a couple days. Do-it-yourself cautery; who needs a $15,000 laser?

    I know it sounds drastic but I promise it doesn't hurt half as much as rinsing with salt water twice a day for a week. Salt water rinsing is masochism at its finest. :)
     
  20. Neurodent

    Neurodent Junior Member
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    Try colon cleansing (fiber dietary Metamucil or other), eat yogurt to restore the GI's natural flora. Avoid anything sour or spicy while using over the counter analgesic creams. That usually works for me 80% of the time.
     
  21. sxr71

    sxr71 Senior Member
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    The doctor I went to used spray on novocaine and then some kind of chemical to cauterize the sore (it was something that contained silver if my memory serves me right). I have to agree that even without analgesic, cauterization is probably worth it. It is instant relief and quick healing at its best.
     
  22. bingpredent

    bingpredent est the break of dawn
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    Get Debacterol, ask your dentist about it or get it online. This is what my gf use.

    It's main ingredient is sulfuric acid, kills then outer layer of your skin and canker sore on contact. It stings like crazy for 5 seconds, and thatz it.
     
  23. no2thdk999

    no2thdk999 Senior Member
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    From another list:

    "Chronic apthous ulcers are common in a disease called Celiac Sprue which is a autoimmune response to gluten or protein molecule gliadin in wheat, rye, barley and wheat contaminated oats."

    FWIW
    Rob
     
  24. Harrie

    Harrie Senior Member
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    True, but with celiac sprue you should see some abdominal distention, bloating, diarrhea. Less likely to present with apthous ulcers alone.
     

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