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Pakistani Medical schools..Anyone from Pakistan?

Discussion in 'Africa and Middle East' started by Sunny7, Jun 17, 2002.

  1. Sunny7

    Sunny7 Junior Member

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    Hi everyone,

    I was wondering if anyone could tell me the best medical schools in Pakistan. How much the cost is and what the admission process is like. I went to high school in the U.S. Is there some kind of entrance i have to take? I'd really appreciate you help in this matter.
     
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  3. Stormreaver

    Stormreaver The Blade of Tyshalle
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    For a person intending to return to the US for residency, and who has to go to med school in Pakistan, the best option is probably the Aga Khan University in Karachi. It's an LCME-recognized med school which has elective arrangements with many US universities. Their students tend to do well on the USMLE since their own exams are based on a similar pattern. Their graduates tend to match well, in top Int Med programs as well as occasionally in Gen Surg and other competitive fields. However, if you're seriously thinking of a more competitive specialty, you're better off staying in the US. Getting back to the US is a rather difficult task and you do tend to cut your legs from under yourself by going international.

    I'm not very familiar with Aga Khan's admission process for international students, but they do accept SAT and SAT-II scores. Check out <a href="http://www.aku.edu" target="_blank">www.aku.edu</a> for details. Their fees run at around $19,000per annum plus room & board (approx. $600-700 per month).

    My own medical school, the King Edward Medical College, is an old and prestigious institution, well-recognized but based on a British system. Our students, thouugh they do well on the USMLE, tend to lack the intense US-directed focus. Also, US electives are more diificult to arrange, since we're not LCME-accredited. Finally, the examination system is heavily weighted towards the essay-type system and most foreign students cstruggle to come to terms with it. Its cheaper ($10,000 per annum, and room and board is MUCH cheaper too ~$1000 p.a for board) but I wouldn't recommend any foreign students to join it since they do tend to have a VERY high drop-out rate.
     
  4. Sunny7

    Sunny7 Junior Member

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    Thanks for the info. What do you know about public medical schools? I have heard many good things about Dow Medical college and Baqai and Rwalpindi. What is LCME? And how come students at King Edward have high drop-out rates?
     
  5. castaway

    castaway Senior Member
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    I thought LCME accreditation was reserved for US and Canadian med schools only....
     
  6. UHS2002

    UHS2002 Senior Member
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    LCME accreditation IS only for US and Canadian schools
     
  7. Stormreaver

    Stormreaver The Blade of Tyshalle
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    From what I know, there are a limited number of foreign medical schools who have some type of LCME accreditation, maybe not a full accreditation, but certainly some sort of accreditation or acceptance. In any case, they are given preferential treatment while scheduling electives; my friends who contacted various places for electives were rebuffed on these very grounds. LCME=Liason Council for Medical Education, by the way.

    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What do you know about public medical schools? I have heard many good things about Dow Medical college and Baqai and Rwalpindi. What is LCME? And how come students at King Edward have high drop-out rates? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">King Edward is a public medical school, certainly by far the best in Pakistan. Baqai is a private college, relatively newly established with debatable teaching quality. I have certainly not been highly impressed with the quality of their graduates, some of whom did electives alongside me or worked with me.

    As for Dow and Rawalpindi Medical Colleges, they're good, but not near the best. King Edward is a tough school with GREAT clinical exposure and teaching, unparallelled anywhere in Pakistan. I'm sure foreign students would probably have an easier time at RMC or DMC, but that's because they have a slightly lower standard (and this is not solely due to pride in my alma mater, our results in every way reflect it).

    The high dropout rate is due to the pressure of studies. The first two years are HELL, with test and evaluation upon evaluation, usually 1-2 but sometimes as many as 4 a week, each counting for something or the other. In addition, the exams are either oral-based or essay-based, and foreign students have immense trouble mastering the essay-based exam system, leading to failure upon failure. RMC has a similar essay-based system, while DMC is now switching to multiple-choice.

    Anything else you'd like to know?
     
  8. Stephen Ewen

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    Thanks for such an interesting and informative thread, all.

    I wanted to add in as already has been that AKU is not an LCME school. I WISH it were, since that would set a precedent that many of us would love to see (a school not on US soil or not chartered by a US institution or its territories being an LCME school, with the Canadian exception thrown in). Perhaps there is more recent info to the contrary, however. And it is a quite impressive school with some quite impressive students nonetheless.

    I found this at their website just now:

    "[The school's hospital] is presently preparing itself for the US Joint Commission International Accreditation (JCI) standards and in this regard the JCIA team of consultants has also carried out a pre-assessment."

    Best wishes!
     
  9. Stormreaver

    Stormreaver The Blade of Tyshalle
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Stephen Ewen:
    <strong>
    I found this at their website just now:

    "[The school's hospital] is presently preparing itself for the US Joint Commission International Accreditation (JCI) standards and in this regard the JCIA team of consultants has also carried out a pre-assessment."

    Best wishes!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe that's what ahd me confused. I know they have some stuff going on with US accreditation councils. Thanks for the info!
     
  10. Sunny7

    Sunny7 Junior Member

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    God, i talked to some pakistani friends of mine and everyone is telling me something different..although some of them have been living in the u.s for almost 20 years, so i don't blame them. I really don't think i can afford AKU or even KEMC. Anyway, How much does Dow Medical cost per year? Is it even possible to find jobs in Pakistan? Even waitressing jobs. How do Pakistani students pay for tution and stuff. I Heard the living there is pretty cheap compared to the U.S. Any other good public ones that are better than Dow? Thanks soo much for all the help.
     
  11. Stormreaver

    Stormreaver The Blade of Tyshalle
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    I think you'll find this information to be as reliable as any.

    1. KEMC is a public medical school; the best in Pakistan. Dow charges similar tuition (~$10,000/year)

    2. Part-time jobs are not the norm in Pakistan. Students are full-time students, usually supported by their parents. By the way, those fee schedules were only for overseas students. As a resident Pakistani citizen, I was charged $50/year and room/board was another $150/year.

    3. Living here is pretty cheap; AKU however, is significantly more expensive than the others.

    4. Again, I'd STRONGLY discourage you from going to a public medical school. The experience is great, but even as one who went through the system, it was a struggle to first adapt to med school and then to adapt to the USMLE pattern. We had Pakistani-Americans come in from the US and almost all repeated one or more years, many dropping out after failing first year a couple of times. Its just that you won't be cut much slack, at least not in KEMC.

    Best of luck in your endeavours.
     
  12. Sunny7

    Sunny7 Junior Member

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    Stormreaver,

    Thanks a bunch. What advice would you give to someone who really wants to live there. I don't have any relatives or even friends there but decided to move there until things cool off here. Can someone who really studies hard pass exams at Dow or KEMC?
     
  13. Stormreaver

    Stormreaver The Blade of Tyshalle
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Can someone who really studies hard pass exams at Dow or KEMC? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of course. The exams are hard, not impossible. Its just that you'll have to put in more time, first of all to adapt to the radically different environment, then to cope with the different teaching/study pattern, and then to pass the tough tests. Its achievable if you grit your way through it, but I won't paint a misleadingly rosy picture. One of my close friends got into KEMC via high school, had immense problems for 2-3 years and then settled down and has now qualified.

    Best of luck in your decision; and let me know if you need more info.

    BTW, I'd suggest KEMC over Dow anyday, unless you have a compelling reason to live in Karachi.
     
  14. Resident Alien

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    I know a bit about these schools, since im a pakistani myself. Talking to relatives who are KEMC alumni, i got the picture that it is not the KEMC of yesteryears; that it is alive today because of the name it made yesterday (kind of like why Aitchison is famous, but doesnt churn "elite" students). In any case, if you are fortunate enough to be in the US and are able to apply to US med schools, i would strongly advise you to stay put! You are going to get a much better and more relevant clinical experience than anywhere else. The rigors of a country's system are unique, and you will do yourself a disservice by transplanting yourself back and forth, not to mention spoiling your chances by becoming a FMG.

    P.S. Stormreaver, feel free to comment on KEMC :)
     
  15. castaway

    castaway Senior Member
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    If you think you have a shot at getting into a US school, remain here. A friend who graduated from Dow and doing a residency in Philly told me AKU is well-recognized by residency directors in the US.

    If you feel your chances of getting into an overseas school are much better, consider a broad array of places, including Australia. It has incredible med schools which are affordable and appear to enjoy a decent reputation in the US.
     
  16. Stormreaver

    Stormreaver The Blade of Tyshalle
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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Resident Alien:
    <strong>Talking to relatives who are KEMC alumni, i got the picture that it is not the KEMC of yesteryears; that it is alive today because of the name it made yesterday
    ...
    P.S. Stormreaver, feel free to comment on KEMC :) </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You bet I will.

    Your relatives are right: KEMC is certainly not the academic powerhouse it was many years back. The reasons for that are complex, but are mainly associated with the general decline in academic medicine in Pakistan due to the exodus of doctors to the US, UK and Ireland. I think the situation will only worsen as the years go by, since even now the brightest and best are going abroad in search of opportunities.

    Having said that, KEMC is still by far and away the best public school, with only AKU being arguably superior. The two schools are based on such different systems that they're difficult to compare, but as I advised Sunny in my first post, AKU has a stronger reputation amongst PDs of late, fostered by the numerous state-side clinical rotations their students do. Of course, AKU is also significantly more expensive (approx. 100 times more expensive on an annual basis than KEMC). KEMC has also got 2 advantages that few other medical schools in Pakistan can match: the attached teaching hospital, where the spectrum and amount of pathology on display is mindboggling, and the academic environment with some of the brightest minds in the country.

    I would advise Sunny to go to med school in the US, as everyone here has been saying, aslo look at the Caribbean route, then maybe consider AKU, and if it comes to going to a public med school, KEMC should be top of your list.
     
  17. Resident Alien

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    Thanks for the comments stormreaver :) . I intend to do some international electives in Pakistan, preferably in Lahore, where you may have guessed im from. And since you mentioned KEMC has a teaching hospital, it would be ideal (Mayo Hospital, right?).

    What do you think about Allama Iqbal medical college? An old classmate of mine gained admission there (was disappointed cuz he sucked at the entry test, but was 1st on HSSC in the Gulf). If you dont mind, what year are you at KEMC?
     
  18. Stormreaver

    Stormreaver The Blade of Tyshalle
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    KEMC's major teaching hospital is indeed, Mayo Hospital. If your international elective has to be in Lahore, it would seem ideal, except for one problem: there really aren't too many organized electives in KEMC/Mayo. From what I know, they're difficult to arrange, and a lot depends on the student's individual efforts. If you PM me with exactly what you intend do an int. elective in, I could advise you better, and probably get you in touch with someone who could help you. If you contact the college office directly, your application will probably get lost in the piles of documents making their way through it&gt; <img border="0" alt="[Laughy]" title="" src="graemlins/laughy.gif" />

    AKU, on the other hand, has an organized elective system that caters to international medical students. I went there for electives twice and worked alongside people who were there for electives from the US, Canada and England. However, it IS a private hospital (a good one, though) and you simply won't get the feel for Pakistani health care.

    And about Allama Iqbal. Well, being from KEMC, we're very proud of our heritage and our achievements. Allama Iqbal is not a bad college, but to be honest, its not nearly as good as KEMC. Since KE attracts the top students from the country, there is a definite difference in the environment. Also, Mayo Hospital is a much busier hospital than Jinnah Hospital (AIMC) with proportionately greater learining opportuinities.

    In Lahore: also look into Shaukat Khanum Memorial Hospital. Although primarily a heme/onc center, they also have int. medicine wards with organized electives under some pretty good staff.

    And finally: I graduated from KEMC last year, and will be starting my residency in the US in just over a week's time (gulp!).
     
  19. silver_eyes

    silver_eyes Senior Member
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    i am a junior (3rd year) at a private uni in california. i went o pakistan (my parents and all the way back are pakistani/afghan decent). anyway, we went to see KEMC (king edward)...i hated it. i was in shock as what a shambles the school was in. there were no facilties at all. the paint was peeling, cobwebs everywhere....didnt like it all.
     
  20. Resident Alien

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    Welcome to "third" (most of the real) world medicine :)
     
  21. silver_eyes

    silver_eyes Senior Member
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    hahah. yea i guess. but seriously.....doctors that were educated in india/pakistan.....they suck reallllllly bad. i have had personal experiences many times.
     
  22. Resident Alien

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    You should avoid overgeneralizing. I learned a lot when i went this summer.......lets just say Id like to go back. Yes, its no where near perfect there.....but you have to view it from a perspective that includes cost of tuition (pennies), academic counseling (no concept), and curricular revision (either unheard of or facing beaurocratic blocks).
     
  23. Stephen Ewen

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  24. sephonly

    sephonly Junior Member
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    Salam alaikum :)

    I am here in Calif. right now. I also considered the option to going to Pakistan for med school (i'm still considering it now). Because I'd really rather live in karachi than anywhere else, i thought of DMC (since AKU starts in May and i'd be kicking myself in the back for a year). Also, DMC is cheaper. I had actually a few questions for you guys... the first and most important one being the eligibility. The DMC website doesn't do that well of a job at answering... but what do I basically need to go to that college ? Just do well on teh Entry exam?? And if so, are there tutor institutions in Pakistan that help prepare you for it? IF so, I better decide fast so I can go there ASAP.

    Secondly, I want to say that with my GPA (3.5) I think I *could* get into a medical school here in california.. but it is tough. At most i'll be able to pull up my overall GPA to a 3.7~ (but at the time i'd apply, it can be at most around 3.62~). I live near UCSF and UCD. My problem with going to any other school than these is that I'd really rather NOT move away from my parents... and if I MUST move away, I'd rather move to the family I have in Karachi (I'm a family kind of guy as u can see :D ). Anyway... so this is the situation I'm in... I realize many people think that staying in he U.S. is much better for a medical education because of all the high-tech facilities... but money is also another factor (if i have to move away from here). UCSF is like the 2nd or 3rd top school in the U.S., and Davis Medical is not that far down the list... I don't know if my 3.6 overall will cut it (plus my extracirricular will only show one year since IF i do stay here, i'm doing 3 years of college rather than the usual 4 before Med school). Anyway, thanks for any help you guys can give.. my first question about DOW is realy more important though I think :)
     
  25. Resident Alien

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    adnan, if you have a green card you are considered the same as a US citizen, just wanted to add that for your info.
    Also, you just dont come from Pak after 5 years, considering the time it takes to take the usmle and interviewing, it takes 6 to 7 years to come to the US (including the 5 yrs of med school ofcourse), so in terms of time you're maybe one year "behind" your peers in Pak. Only problem with education in US i see (and painfully experience) is the co$$t.
     
  26. zeeyo987

    zeeyo987 Member
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    Hi. I am also a paki kid, but was born in the u.s. I was looking at pakiland for a long time but decided that an american accelerated program, or irish program would be the best best. I was looking at aku for a long time, but since my parents know that karachi is full of politics and trouble, they thought it would not be the best for me. My friends go to al shifa and baqai, but i wanted to get into aku. does anyone over here know of life in aku, or what sort of requirements they have. i have a 4.4 gpa, many extra cirricular activities, top 3% of my class, and plan on scoring a 1400 on my sats. however my school dosent offer ap chem or bio, so i wont have those ap classes or any sat 2s., but i will be taking physics ap. I am going into my senior year

    thanks a lot
     
  27. Murtadha

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    Hello,
    I am an iraqi doctor with M.B.B.S.from iraqi university.I would like to
    get the graduation ( Ph.D)study in asyrian university,Please,Would anyone mind
    to guide me to get that.I can effort the tuitions and fees.
    Thanks alot,
    Dr.Murtadha
     
  28. alihyderzaidi

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  29. phd89

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    ok so im new here and i plan to got to Pakistan for medical school i just wanted to know how hard is KE im an American Pakistani i was born here and probably can get into school here but it is like 5 years there so i much rather choose that

    Also i want to become a cardiac surgeon will i be able to become that from KE and get a good spot of residency

    Also i was wondering if i would be able to study for the usmle in those 5 years so i don't waste time does that sound feasible


    I was also wondering what about Aga Khan if I went there for like the first 2 years could I switch to like Yale or Harvard Med for clinical experience or the next 2-3 years???????


    If there is any advice please give it to me im very new at this international stuff
     
  30. nirma1230

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    i think brother MBBS is better in china, in very low coast, 2400 per year in chinese rupee, in this fee all the expenses hostel food, tution fee, medical etc is included,
    http://study.result.pk/
     
  31. issyed

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    Hey guys,

    I'm a student in Canada. I am currently enrolled into a life science program in university. I am still in my first year however I was considering going to Pakistan instead and do five years of medical college there. Which college would you recommend and how difficult would it be to complete the tests and practice in Canada?
     
  32. kelly008

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    I know my best friend Akash Abbas from Pakistan. He is a doctor. I like this discussion forum for many reasons. I have been in search of these kind of forums to get information about the students of medical. Really a nice place to get my desires. Thanks.
     
  33. faisalmuneer

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    I know my best friend Sobia from Pakistan. She is Engineer and have wonderful track record in educational career.
     
  34. Yadav Shinday

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    I know he is the best doc in Pakistan. he is my classmate. Contact no is not available but i'll try my best.
     
  35. junaidmustafa

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    You can contact the Associate Professor of Surgery at Multan Medical and Dental College, Ibn e Sina Hospital and Nishtar Hospital Multan, Pakistan team his name is Manzar Ali, He is leproscopic Surgeon.
     
  36. Greendot27

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    Hi,

    I am a fourth year medical student from Pakistan. I am looking for electives in a good university here in US, I just checked with Pritzker school of medicine and they asked for LCME accreditation if I am an international which means I cannot technically apply. I need some guidance in the concern. how do I go about the entire Process?
     
  37. TakTareen

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  38. Djsingh

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    yeah wait for 1 day i will provide contact no .. enjoy cricket
     
    #37 Djsingh, Jan 8, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2016
  39. Resultkidunya

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    How can I help you for further assessment because what you are looking for is not a priority of the administration and education system in India is much better than us.
     
  40. MalikArain

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    Hi everyone, I was wondering if anyone could tell me the best medical schools in Pakistan.
    Now i,m excited to start PSL T20 Live in Dubai.
     
  41. Gotstar

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    Hi there Hotstar will provide you all the information you required to you admission process
     

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