Paper politics

[Nuel]

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Hello guys, I really doubt undergrads and grad students will have sole control over what they do in regards to research and publications (abstract or paper). I am talking about this because of my experience a few days ago.

A major meeting for some american society is coming up, and I was given the opportunity to present/publish (abstract only) research performed over the summer at an institution totally different from mine. However my own science department offered to sponsor me and submit the work on my behalf. Surprisingly, I was pressured to slip in the name of one prof (a major person in the department) who had nothing to do with the work. I wondered, "That you are doing me a favor does not mean you should claim what you don't deserve and thus bring your integrity into question." (Quid-pro-quo philosophy I guess). There was a post-doc at my research center who, though did not work with me, offered some insightful tips as regards my experiment, and I felt so bad considering that a foreigner to my work (and that of my mentors at at the research site) just politically "forced" in his name as a co-author when a more deserving person was not in the list. Till now I just feel bad, I hope these kinda people don't meet me in the future, and hopefully in my research career. People what do you think? To me this episode is most egregious.

 

[Airborne]

Welcome to Academia...

Of my peer reviewed papers, I would say that 25% actually had anything to do with experimental design, insight or otherwise.

Unfortunately, in order to keep oneself in the game, accept all other authors (as determined by the senior author), and realize that in a few years, you too will be "forcing" yourself into the authorship as well.

It is just the way that the rules are played.

Be happy that you are first in the succession.

Kind regards,

Airborne

 

[u2psalm40]

another way to look at it... those looking up the "major prof's" work will also find your name. and since she/he doesn't know much about your work, they will have to defer to YOU.

contacts are also the name of the game as well in research. every silver lining has a cloud...

 

[Nuel]

I was more concerned about honesty. That a name is on a paper implies that all authors had something to do with the topical work. A little bit of my scruples wouldn't let me force my name into some paper I had absolutely nothing to do with . . . well, if those are the rules then we become research diplomats.

 

[adesua]

Ya Nuel,
I share your sentiments. Its unfortunate that the forces that control the world of research and drive people to want to churn out as many papers as possible etc. will make them do what you described. It seems like the field of research is caught in some kind of a catch 22 which is such that you either play the game or back out without the ability to change stuff. I just hope some eminent history of science professor out there publishes some in depth study on this aspect of scientific research so as to initiate some transformations in the scientific research institution as a whole.

Cheers

 

[Friendly]

Originally posted by Nuel
Hello guys, I really doubt undergrads and grad students will have sole control over what they do in regards to research and publications (abstract or paper). I am talking about this because of my experience a few days ago.

A major meeting for some american society is coming up, and I was given the opportunity to present/publish (abstract only) research performed over the summer at an institution totally different from mine. However my own science department offered to sponsor me and submit the work on my behalf. Surprisingly, I was pressured to slip in the name of one prof (a major person in the department) who had nothing to do with the work. I wondered, "That you are doing me a favor does not mean you should claim what you don't deserve and thus bring your integrity into question." (Quid-pro-quo philosophy I guess). There was a post-doc at my research center who, though did not work with me, offered some insightful tips as regards my experiment, and I felt so bad considering that a foreigner to my work (and that of my mentors at at the research site) just politically "forced" in his name as a co-author when a more deserving person was not in the list. Till now I just feel bad, I hope these kinda people don't meet me in the future, and hopefully in my research career. People what do you think? To me this episode is most egregious.

What you've just described is scientific miconduct and, if reported, the prof. would be in BIG trouble. Unfortunately, as a student, it would drain you emotionally and it might hurt your immediate future if this selfish clown has any influence over you.

It has happened to me as well. I had to put a prof's name on my main Ph.D. thesis paper as "equally contributing first author", even though he had no involvement in the work. I even wrote the paper and submitted it. It boils to to one thing: a huge lesson in humility. The only thing you can do is to promise yourself that you'll have enough integrity to never abuse a future student in a similar way. I hope that helps.

 

[tofurious]

Moral of the story: never get 2nd or 3rd authorship, or people will simply consider you honorary authors like all your profs. Always go for first author papers/presentations, unless you TRULY only contributed some ideas (which are easy ways to get on papers, although some journals now require you to spell out what each author did)

(Unless you get the "*: these authors contributed equally", but remember these don't show up in CVs and you're still seen as a second/third author)

 

[Friendly]

Originally posted by tofurious
Moral of the story: never get 2nd or 3rd authorship, or people will simply consider you honorary authors like all your profs. Always go for first author papers/presentations, unless you TRULY only contributed some ideas (which are easy ways to get on papers, although some journals now require you to spell out what each author did)

(Unless you get the "*: these authors contributed equally", but remember these don't show up in CVs and you're still seen as a second/third author)

...oh, people get around that easily. I've read more than one CV that actually states after the title of the publication on their CV: ("co-first author"). It's disgusting.

 

[Ceremony]

If two people made equal contributions to a body of work, what is wrong with sharing first authorship? If a person made equal contribution to the first author, I think it should be recognized as a joint first author piece of work.

 

[Friendly]

Originally posted by Ceremony
If two people made equal contributions to a body of work, what is wrong with sharing first authorship? If a person made equal contribution to the first author, I think it should be recognized as a joint first author piece of work.

Yes, my friend, but I think you've missed the point. We're taling about when people have NOT made an equal contribution and, specifically, in my case, the person had made a 5% contribution and that's the truth.

Of course, as you point out, "equally-contributing first author" is perfectly ethical if each person has made an equal contribution in terms of physically doing the experiments, writing the paper, intellectual contribution or a mixture thereof. In this case, the person physically first on the paper is still always seen as second as far as the scientific community are concerned. It's not fair, but it's a fact.

 

[KatieOConnor]

Ah, this is one of the reasons I am thinking of going plain MD and dropping science. I have worked in 3 different labs (summer internships, took some time off from school, etc) and I have come across so many dishonest people who completely lack academic integrity.

So many times, foreign postdocs and grad students who dont know the game well work hard in the lab and then the PI swoops down and publishes the results with his or her name first author, and sometimes WITHOUT the name of the person who did the work.

My current PI, who is so far outside of the lab that she doesn't even know WHAT techniques we are doing and she published a paper with ONLY her name. No wonder she doesnt get along with anyone in the field.

And she isnt the