Parents want me to do an MD/PhD

[Gigantron]

I'm in a bit of a dilemma. My parents recently found out about the existence of MD/PhD programs from a friend who currently happens to be in one himself. Needless to say, when they found out about the tuition stipends, they thought it would be a great idea if I pursue admission into these programs.

I already know the pros/cons about MD/PhD programs, how I should not go into one solely for the tuition stipend, how I should not go into one if I do not plan on doing research, etc.

The thing is, with my sister entering college the same year I plan to graduate and matriculate to medical school, my parents will not have enough money to support me in my endeavor to become a physician. Initially, it was going to be half loans and half paying out of pocket, but it has come to my attention that this may not be the case. It may be all loans. If this is the case, I could be anywhere from 100k - 240k in debt. Subsequently, the tuition stipend that MD/PhD programs provide has become enticing to my parents.

I've already presented my rationale to my parents as to why I don't want to pursue an MD/PhD, but they simply will not listen. What are some very convincing and concrete reasons NOT to pursue an MD/PhD?

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[tiedyeddog]

I'm in a bit of a dilemma. My parents recently found out about the existence of MD/PhD programs from a friend who currently happens to be in one himself. Needless to say, when they found out about the tuition stipends, they thought it would be a great idea if I pursue admission into these programs.

I already know the pros/cons about MD/PhD programs, how I should not go into one solely for the tuition stipend, how I should not go into one if I do not plan on doing research, etc.

The thing is, with my sister entering college the same year I plan to graduate and matriculate to medical school, my parents will not have enough money to support me in my endeavor to become a physician. Initially, it was going to be half loans and half paying out of pocket, but it has come to my attention that this may not be the case. It may be all loans. If this is the case, I could be anywhere from 100k - 240k in debt. Subsequently, the tuition stipend that MD/PhD programs provide has become enticing to my parents.

I've already presented my rationale to my parents as to why I don't want to pursue an MD/PhD, but they simply will not listen. What are some very convincing and concrete reasons NOT to pursue an MD/PhD?

What, are your parents the one's going through medical school? Don't think so. Analogy here is who cares what your parents think about your boyfriend/girlfriend. They aren't the ones who have to marry them.

Anecdotally, I have TONS of friends who entered medical school with 40-60K debt from undergrad and are now taking out 150-200K more for medical school. People survive. Most people will have debt by the time they're done, it's a fact of life.

Somes good reasons in your case:

1. With the same stats, you'll likely get into a "better" medical school for MD only compared to MD/PhD.
2. The PhD years are hard. They are NOT a walk in the park and you'll have no clear end in sight like you do during the MD years.
3. The best argument is this: Let's say you make 200K a year, post residency. You'll miss AT LEAST three years and maybe even four-five years of that salary by doing the MD/PhD. Do the math. 4x200K=800K is missed salary. Compare that to the 120K you saved by doing the MD/PhD route. It would be pretty idiotic to for money reasons alone, especially if you have no desire in being a clinician-scientist.
4. Are you even competitive for MD/PhD programs? Have at least two years of research, high GPA and MCAT?

If money is that much of a concern just do medical school totally on loans and let your sister have the money for her undergrad. That's a much better use of money, given a bachelors degree doesn't assure income levels later in life like an M.D. would.

 

[ineed2stpsmurfn]

Here's a convincing reason: you don't actually get into an md/phd program. As for the debt? Welcome to how the other 90%+ do it. Aren't you kind of past the age where you do things solely bc your parents want you to... 3 years of things....

 

[Star Fox]

I understand your parents' point of view because they see it as a win-win situation for you to do MD/PhD: the financial help, and an extra degree. They see no reason not to do it and have good intentions.

But the road to hell is paved with good intentions. This decision is beyond whether or not to apply MD/PhD. Now is when you choose to either stand up for yourself and dictate the course of your own life, or submit to the orders of your parents like some dog. Remember you are in control here and you have all the power. Your parents can't force you to write essays, apply, and interview. This decision is yours to make, whether they listen or not.

ineed2stpsmurfn has already given you the most concrete, most convincing reason not to do MD/PhD: you don't get in. Good luck.

 

[StoicJosher]

Option A - Do MD. Your parents are not going to pay for your education so they have no input and it is not their call.

Option B - Do MD/PhD. Your parents are not going to pay for your education so they have no input and it is not their call.

 

[QofQuimica]

Negotiating with parents can be difficult sometimes, especially if you come from certain ethnic backgrounds where it's the cultural norm for one's parents to be heavily involved in the life decisions their children make. (I'm in that category, and I'm guessing the OP may be, too.) My advice is the following:

First, definitely let your parents know about the practical downsides of doing an MD/PhD, particularly the financial arguments presented above. I'd add to those that you are likely to take a major income cut if you do MD/PhD, because most MD/PhDs work in academia, and most straight MDs work in the community. Physicians' salaries in community jobs are typically significantly higher than those of academic physicians.

Second, you really have to have a love of research and lab work to make it through a PhD. It's not like medical school where you start out knowing exactly when you graduate and exactly what requirements you have to meet. It's possible to languish in grad school for a decade; I had some grad school classmates like that. This is not going to do wonders for your bottom line, nor for making you a happy and productive physician scientist.

Finally, there *are* other options besides MD/PhD versus MD-only with full loans. For example, you could take some time off after college and work for a few years to save money. Particularly if your parents will allow you to live with them, and you can put nearly all of your income toward savings, you could make a significant dent in your future debt along with gaining some valuable work and life experience. Alternatively, if you're interested in primary care or plan on serving in the military, there are a number of scholarships/loan forgiveness programs that can significantly reduce your debt. See here for a list of them.

You should take it as a given that your parents' intentions are good; however, they are likely ignorant of the fiscal realities of medical training, especially if they have not gone through medical training themselves. Educating them on these issues and laying out all of the options for them should go a long way toward easing their concerns and helping them understand yours.

I hope this helps, and I wish you the best of luck.

 

[notbobtrustme]

If you're already against doing an MD/PhD, then you won't survive in a MD/PhD program. The PhD years are HARD. If you don't have a passion for research (and a willingness to navigate the bull**** game around research), then you won't get a PhD, period. I had a passion for research, but the bull**** game around the research (data massaging, ass-kissing, hypothesis fishing, etc etc) made me Master-out of my PhD program and drove me towards medicine.

Finanicially, it's not worth it since you lose 3-5 years of attending salary.

 

[Shifty B]

These other posts are making this too complicated.

You are an adult. Time to step up and make your own decisions, regardless of what your parents think.

That's all.

 

[nysw]

Worst case scenario if they continue to not listen - just say that you applied, but you got rejected from all MD/PhDs and got put in the MD only pool reallyreally early on in the cycle.
...but don't actually apply MD/PhD.

 

[delirium81]

Worst case scenario if they continue to not listen - just say that you applied, but you got rejected from all MD/PhDs and got put in the MD only pool reallyreally early on in the cycle.
...but don't actually apply MD/PhD.

I wouldn't recommend that, even as a last resort. If you want your parents to start treating you like an adult, then you have to start acting like one and taking responsibility for your own decisions. I think there are ways to do that respectfully. You can be polite, but clear that this is what you're going to do and these are the reasons why. As other posters have said, it's your life and your decision, and the sooner parents can start realizing that and dealing with it the better.

 

[SBR249]

IMHO, once your parents have made it clear that they cannot contribute financially towards your medical education, they really don't have a say in what you do anymore. They can make suggestions but that's about the extent of it. It's you who will either need to go into debt or potentially waste 4+ years of your life. Frankly, I'd rather find a cheap med school like the ones in TX, go into debt for 100K than throw away 4 years of my life.